Tidefall Paladin Advice

[omgFIREBALLS]

In the case of the Paladin he can be effective as a Tank, Hybrid Tank/Damage Dealer, a Buffer or a Healer. Only PoTD limits character design. Which is another thing I like about the game. Playing on hard with a 'Less than Obsidian PoE Forums Optimal Build' is easily doable and still enjoyable.

This goes for most if not all games with difficulty settings, not sure why you're making PoE sound special.

Edited April 8, 2016 by omgFIREBALLS

[Gromnir]

What is optimal anyways? For me it's a good build if you have fun playing it. And I really like to put a twist on a build which is fun but doesn't gimp it too hard.

am using "optimal" nomenclature as put forth by josh sawyer in his recent gdc presentation... not 'cause we think josh is an authority, but 'cause his definition is, at the very least, adequate, and it is convenient to use a 3rd party definition that is a known quantity.  am not seeing a point in starting a definitions debate when a perfect viable option is already available.

 

am a frequent critic o' josh, but we had no complaint with his use o' optimal and viable. for sake o' simplicity and clarity, we will use optimal as did josh in his gdc presentation.

 

http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1023481/Gods-and-Dumps-Attribute-Tuning

 

as a complete aside, every time we heard josh describe that "genius barbarian" as some kinda alternative character build, we wanted to cry foul.  tell us that poe seeks to avoid class defining abilities while using a barbarian to illustrate is perhaps some kinda tongue-in-cheek self deprecation that went unnoticed?  have a clear class defining ability such as carnage that is inextricably linked to one or two attributes is what poe were trying to avoid yes?  to then use genius barbarians to illustrate how poe is different were mighty perplexing to Gromnir.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Blunderboss]

Everyone who doesnt believe in DPS paladins should try one with 2x Bittercuts ( i seen FoD swings for 150 damage and that is only 1 out of 4  swings u get per fight , biggest problem is when enemy has only half HP u know that one FoD swing will get wasted :/  ) , also DPS is funny thing meanwhile rogue might do 100 damage per second for total of 4 seconds before he uses all his skills and becomes useless paladin can do 50 dps for 3 minutes while tanking a boss and 3 adds

Edited April 8, 2016 by Blunderboss

[JerekKruger]

Yeah the dual Bittercut Bleakwalker looks like it come do some harm.

 

Quick question: I just finished off attuning the Redeemer to my Paladin, but now I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better off in the hands of Maneha. Any thoughts?

[DarkDogg]

Abilities: Here's where things become more difficult. Paladins have a lot of nice abilities, and not enough levels to take them all. Here's what I'm thinking at the moment (in the order I'll take them):

 

Lay on Hands

Zealous Focus

Flames of Devotion

Sworn Enemy

Hastening Exhortation

Aegis of Loyalty

Sacred Immolation

???

 

Lay on Hands is so good I feel like I have to take it, but perhaps this is a mistake? Zealous Focus seems like a no-brainer. Flames of Devotion allows for a powerful alpha strike with arquebus and also works well with the high base damage of a two-hander. Sworn Enemy is a big buff against tough enemies, though if I intend to go the Kind Wayfarer's route my Paladin should probably focus on squishier targets first so perhaps this is a bad pick? I have to admit I don't know if a Paladin can exhort themselves, and if they can't then perhaps this isn't the greatest pick, but it's still a great buff for other damage dealers in the party. Aegis of Loyalty gets picked for the lovely synergy with Sacred Immolation rather than for its damage dealing potential. Finally Sacred Immolation gets picked because it's brilliant.

 

Abilities I'm wondering whether I should take:

 

Inspiring Triumph: this once again depends on how reliably I can score killing blows. Thoughts?

Liberating Exhortation: this is a very popular ability amongst people on this forum but I've never used it much when I take it on Pallegina. Presumably I'm missing something about it but I'm not sure what.

Reinforcing Exhortation: if I can exhort myself, then this might be a useful emergency button. Even if I can't it's a useful ability.

Righteous Soul: I can't decide whether this is any good, it's a big buff to the Paladin's charm and dominate saves which synergises well with the Aegis of Loyalty + Sacred Immolation combo, but perhaps Paladins have sufficiently high saves already?

Behold the Martyr: I can't decide whether this is worth taking or not. I guess it depends on how often other members of my party go down.

 

Talents: This is a fair bit easier to pick. Obvious choices are:

 

Weapon Focus Soldier

Two-Handed Style

Savage Attack (annoyingly bugged at the moment)

Vulnerable Attack

Scion of Flame (for Sacred Immolation and Flames of Devotion)

Critical Focus

Intense Flames

 

That leaves one going spare. I'd be tempted to skip Savage attacks given the current bug, though the extra damage is very nice. Other talents that might be worth taking would be The Sword and the Shepherd and Bloody Slaughter (if I go the killing blow route), and perhaps Superior Deflection for a bit more melee survivability. Deep Faith used to be really good value for money, but it's new incarnation seems a bit lacklustre.

Right now I'm playing POtD with an Pale Elf Kind Wayfarer

1. I would raise DEX a bit instead of MIG. (actually INT 12-14 is OK for a paladin, if not for the dialogue options, you can raise it via good helmets early in the game). I wouldn't recommend dump CON. Since you can't (as a Good Paladin) benefit +1 MIG and 5% Endurance from the machine and +1 MIG from the Blood Pool (Maneha or Eder), you need to pick Untroubled Faith in that case...

2. I would pick Zealous Endurance. If you're not soloing you can pick the Modal Focus talent with your priest for example. Or simple pick up Pallegina for the second aura on your party.

3. Inspiring Thriumph + Strange Mercy is a life safer and works very good (since you're the DD with a 2-h Great Sword). The Sword and the Shepherd talent isn't really that powerfull but sometimes comes in handy in tough group battles. If you don't mind using a lot of healing scrolls, don't take this talent.

4. I wouldn't recommend Bloody Slaughter. It only triggers when 10 or 20% HP is left... Not really usefull, IMO.

Superior Deflection... well, in your case with a RES score 10  it might be a good idea to pick that talent.

5. For DD reasons I would go House Doemenels for the Crit talent.

6. I would recommend to pick Liberating Exhortation. Quite usefull buff and works as cleanse too. Still it depends on your party. You can pick Deprive the Unworthy if you're playing without a mage (like me).

7. I'm not sure, but seems that Scion of Flame is not really working for me or not as much usefull as it could be according to the description.

8. I would pick baby Sneak Attack (is it just me?) so you can co-op with your melee Rogue (custom companion in my group). In that case Coordinated Attacks (in my case Pallegina has it) might be usefull.

9. If you're not soloing It's a nice idea to pick up Pallegina (on POtD) as a defensive unit and play with 2 paladins. Give her the Green Paladin Shield (+5 defences). Take all Exhortations on her so she could buff it on you, raise her Lore to 10 so she can use all the scrolls (Moonwell, offensive spells).

[DarkDogg]

Yeah the dual Bittercut Bleakwalker looks like it come do some harm.

 

Quick question: I just finished off attuning the Redeemer to my Paladin, but now I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better off in the hands of Maneha. Any thoughts?

10% chance Divine Mark is the best option on this sword.

[Elric Galad]

 

 

Yeah the dual Bittercut Bleakwalker looks like it come do some harm.

 

Quick question: I just finished off attuning the Redeemer to my Paladin, but now I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better off in the hands of Maneha. Any thoughts?

10% chance Divine Mark is the best option on this sword.

Maneha is the way to go.

 

You use Redeemer only to fight against vessels. Carnage enables insta-kill vessels on an AoE. It is really a no-brainer for me unless you have roleplay reasons to do otherwise.

[JerekKruger]

Maneha is the way to go.

You use Redeemer only to fight against vessels. Carnage enables insta-kill vessels on an AoE. It is really a no-brainer for me unless you have roleplay reasons to do otherwise.

 

That was, indeed, my reasoning. I haven't done Durgan's Battery yet so it should be fairly easy to re-level it.

[DarkDogg]

 

Maneha is the way to go.

 

You use Redeemer only to fight against vessels. Carnage enables insta-kill vessels on an AoE. It is really a no-brainer for me unless you have roleplay reasons to do otherwise.

 

I don't have a barbarian in my group

[Elric Galad]

Sure, but you answered to someone who had one )

[Boeroer]

Hehe. Barb + Redeemer + Bloodthirst + vessels of same or lower levels = great fun.

[Elric Galad]

Just started Craghold. Time for Barbarian's glory.

[Blades of Vanatar]

 

 

In the case of the Paladin he can be effective as a Tank, Hybrid Tank/Damage Dealer, a Buffer or a Healer. Only PoTD limits character design. Which is another thing I like about the game. Playing on hard with a 'Less than Obsidian PoE Forums Optimal Build' is easily doable and still enjoyable.

This goes for most if not all games with difficulty settings, not sure why you're making PoE sound special.

I don't think that there have been many games that play like PoE. PoE has been tweaked enough to allow for a gazillion different play styles that work at most if not all settings. Not many games have as much flexibility as PoE. So yes, I do think it's kind of special in that sense. I like that I can Pally any way I want and still be viable at all levels.

[JerekKruger]

I hate Lagufaeth. I have killed all the ones in WM1 but I fear there will be more in WM2. Bloody Lagufaeth!

[Boeroer]

Hm, then you must have missed the two nice ones.

[Crucis]

I hate Lagufaeth. I have killed all the ones in WM1 but I fear there will be more in WM2. Bloody Lagufaeth!

 

Oh, there are.  There most certainly are. 

 

Actually, after a very bad first encounter with them, I ended up finding them not all that difficult, though I will admit that perhaps I've been going into WM1/2 at a higher level than some do, meaning that my party has higher saves than others might, which can matter against their paralyzing blowgun darts.

[JerekKruger]

I met the ones involved in the gift bearer quest and I have the pet one, but other than that no nice lagufaeth no.

 

I have noticed that circle of protection is a huge boon against them (and to be honest against most enemies).

 

Also I took a break from the white march and completed act II. The joy if not needing strategy: I justclicked an enemy and it died whilst my group were basically invincible. Perhaps in I'll do what crucis does and visit the white march later.

[JerekKruger]

Scratch my previous comments. I'll fight Lagufaeth all day if you get rid of god damn battery sirens

[Blunderboss]

I gladly fight anything that has no Upscalled Magran Priests seriously ... that one was overkill .. well fight fire with fire is the answer i found for them in the end 

Edited April 10, 2016 by Blunderboss

[JerekKruger]

I can now confirm that the Cape of the Master Mystic is still bugged, since Laeric went permanently invisible using it. I had to kill him with AoE spells.

[Crucis]

I gladly fight anything that has no Upscalled Magran Priests seriously ... that one was overkill .. well fight fire with fire is the answer i found for them in the end 

 

I've never had trouble with that Magran bounty.  The one that I find incredibly tough is that pirate band you have to fight near Dyrford village.  That one's a real difficult one, or at least it has been for me.

[Lampros]

 

Rogue with firebrand is another option. In the great scheme of things, paladin are not exactly a top tier class in melee. They are inferior to anybody but casters and chanters.

 

That does not mean Paladin can't damages in melee. But a true melee DPS would do better (Paladins have many other strengths.). In this case the slight bonus is you would anyway pick Scion of Flames with your paladin, so it's not a bad idea.

 

But I'm always surprised about how many people want to build a DPS paladin.

 

I suspect that a great many of those people do it because that's how they feel paladins should have been in the first place, rather than the leader/support class that the devs foisted on the players.  Paladins may have "many other strengths", but I suspect that those are strengths that many players would give up in a heartbeat for a more offensively oriented paladin class.  Oh, some of their abilities are nice enough, but it seems to me that if you really want a support second line support character that can do these things, a priest can do them just as well, even if he has to do them a little differently.  I think that a lot of players would rather that the paladin class was a class of "holy warriors" (I use that term loosely...) than what they are today.  And that's why I think you see a lot of players trying to play them that way, regardless of how the class is designed.

 

 

People keep saying that Paladins are not a DPS class, but my experience is otherwise - albeit I am a newb. In my admittedly limited experience, they can do decent DPS until level 13 (Sacred Immolation), and they can match anyone after level 13. In fact, in my experience they do only mildly less DPS than a full-blown, dual wield/Dragon Thrashed DPS Chanter once they get Sacred Immolation. So I am having a hard time understanding people complaining about Paladin DPS.

 

Moreover, and this is another angle, Paladins in most RPGs or MMORPGs are in fact low-DPS, support classes. So if anything, I think PoE gives it far more offensive tools than is usually the case elsewhere. And this is the PoE Paladin's biggest appeal for me in fact.

[Torm51]

 

 

Rogue with firebrand is another option. In the great scheme of things, paladin are not exactly a top tier class in melee. They are inferior to anybody but casters and chanters.

 

That does not mean Paladin can't damages in melee. But a true melee DPS would do better (Paladins have many other strengths.). In this case the slight bonus is you would anyway pick Scion of Flames with your paladin, so it's not a bad idea.

 

But I'm always surprised about how many people want to build a DPS paladin.

 

I suspect that a great many of those people do it because that's how they feel paladins should have been in the first place, rather than the leader/support class that the devs foisted on the players.  Paladins may have "many other strengths", but I suspect that those are strengths that many players would give up in a heartbeat for a more offensively oriented paladin class.  Oh, some of their abilities are nice enough, but it seems to me that if you really want a support second line support character that can do these things, a priest can do them just as well, even if he has to do them a little differently.  I think that a lot of players would rather that the paladin class was a class of "holy warriors" (I use that term loosely...) than what they are today.  And that's why I think you see a lot of players trying to play them that way, regardless of how the class is designed.

 

 

People keep saying that Paladins are not a DPS class, but my experience is otherwise - albeit I am a newb. In my admittedly limited experience, they can do decent DPS until level 13 (Sacred Immolation), and they can match anyone after level 13. In fact, in my experience they do only mildly less DPS than a full-blown, dual wield/Dragon Thrashed DPS Chanter once they get Sacred Immolation. So I am having a hard time understanding people complaining about Paladin DPS.

 

Moreover, and this is another angle, Paladins in most RPGs or MMORPGs are in fact low-DPS, support classes. So if anything, I think PoE gives it far more offensive tools than is usually the case elsewhere. And this is the PoE Paladin's biggest appeal for me in fact.

 

When the game first released this was not the case.  Many of the posts you find online are from this.  Paladins did not have Sacred Immolation and at the early early start had FoD 1 per encounter and did not have a + 20 ACC to the ability.  So back then it was not worth it as Paladins especially in the early game have average ACC.  Also the AI was worse and would dog pile the frontline. never looking at the back line.  You could also stack deflection sky high because PER use to give deflection not ACC along with Resolve.  That and with the dog piling AI your best bet with a Paladin was to create a uselessly offensive meat shield with support abilities.  It worked very very well.  My first Paladin tanked the Adra Dragon for a long while and never got touched.  A bit later Paladins got FoD 2 per encounter and the+ 20 ACC with it.  This made them good Alpha Strikers and good tanks along with the support.  When white March came out we got Sacred Immolation and you could/can make a very good DPSer from 13 on.  My Paladin usually comes second only losing to the guy whose been damage dealing from the start.

 

I have played the game from the start and the class has always been good at all stages of the game for the reasons I stated above. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by Torm51

[Lampros]

 

 

 

Rogue with firebrand is another option. In the great scheme of things, paladin are not exactly a top tier class in melee. They are inferior to anybody but casters and chanters.

 

That does not mean Paladin can't damages in melee. But a true melee DPS would do better (Paladins have many other strengths.). In this case the slight bonus is you would anyway pick Scion of Flames with your paladin, so it's not a bad idea.

 

But I'm always surprised about how many people want to build a DPS paladin.

 

I suspect that a great many of those people do it because that's how they feel paladins should have been in the first place, rather than the leader/support class that the devs foisted on the players.  Paladins may have "many other strengths", but I suspect that those are strengths that many players would give up in a heartbeat for a more offensively oriented paladin class.  Oh, some of their abilities are nice enough, but it seems to me that if you really want a support second line support character that can do these things, a priest can do them just as well, even if he has to do them a little differently.  I think that a lot of players would rather that the paladin class was a class of "holy warriors" (I use that term loosely...) than what they are today.  And that's why I think you see a lot of players trying to play them that way, regardless of how the class is designed.

 

 

People keep saying that Paladins are not a DPS class, but my experience is otherwise - albeit I am a newb. In my admittedly limited experience, they can do decent DPS until level 13 (Sacred Immolation), and they can match anyone after level 13. In fact, in my experience they do only mildly less DPS than a full-blown, dual wield/Dragon Thrashed DPS Chanter once they get Sacred Immolation. So I am having a hard time understanding people complaining about Paladin DPS.

 

Moreover, and this is another angle, Paladins in most RPGs or MMORPGs are in fact low-DPS, support classes. So if anything, I think PoE gives it far more offensive tools than is usually the case elsewhere. And this is the PoE Paladin's biggest appeal for me in fact.

 

When the game first released this was not the case.  Many of the posts you find online is from this.  Paladins did not have Sacred Immolation and at the early early start had FoD 1 per encounter and did not have a + 20 ACC to the ability.  So back then it was not worth it as Paladins especially in the early game have average ACC.  Also the AI was worse and would dog pile the frontline. never looking at the back line.  You could also stack deflection sky high because PER use to give deflection not ACC along with Resolve.  That and with the dog piling AI your best bet with a Paladin was to create uselessly offensive meat shield with support abilities.  It worked very very well.  My first Paladin tanked the Adra Dragon for a long while and never got touched.  A bit later Paladins got FoD 2 per encounter and the+ 20 ACC with it.  This made them good Alpha Strikers and good tanks along with the support.  When white March came out we got Sacred Immolation and you could/can make a very good DPSer from 13 on.  My Paladin usually comes second only losing to the guy whose been damage dealing from the start.

 

 

Ah, got it. I did not get the game until a few weeks ago, so I have only a very rough idea of when the expansions came out - and I know nothing about when various major patches were released.

[JerekKruger]

People keep saying that Paladins are not a DPS class, but my experience is otherwise - albeit I am a newb. In my admittedly limited experience, they can do decent DPS until level 13 (Sacred Immolation), and they can match anyone after level 13. In fact, in my experience they do only mildly less DPS than a full-blown, dual wield/Dragon Thrashed DPS Chanter once they get Sacred Immolation. So I am having a hard time understanding people complaining about Paladin DPS.

 

I think you overestimate Paladins and Chanters because of your dislike of micro. Wizards, Druids and Priests can all do absurdly high damage if you empty their spell books as fast as possible.

 

Also, whilst Sacred Immolation is indeed a great damage dealing ability, Paladins aren't particularly great at single target damage dealing (Flames of Devotion is good but limited) and sometimes you simply need to focus an enemy down.