What UP spells and abilities really need buffs?

[limaxophobiacq]

Since most OP spells and abilities have been balanced as of 3.0 I thought this might make a decent topic.

 

I'm just going to list some priest spells I feel might as well not exist given how weak they currently are, since it's a class I feel I have a somewhat decent grasp of. Overall its a very nice set of spells the class has and while there's one or two that stand out (Devotions for the Faithful is ridiculous) very few are useless.

 

1st level:

 

Divine Terror: Why the horribly small AoE for a debuff as weak as Frightened? Early game you have to few spells to spend one on inflicting -10 accuracy on a couple of enemies and late game normal cast time is to long for such a small and weak effect. Could actually be a cool spell comparable to Natures Mark (slightly stronger effect but half range, duration, and still smaller AoE) if it was fast cast and went from 1.25 to 1.75 AoE.

 

3rd level:

 

Circle of Protection: The duration is just to short to take the time to cast it. Could really stand to be increased to base 15 seconds and fast cast to make the time to cast vs. duration a lot more reasonable.

 

Despondent Blows: It is trumped so hard by Devotions for the Faithful. You have to buff it really hard for it to be at all relevant after level 7. Only thing it has over DftF is range but it debuffs melee accuracy so range isn't really that important.

 

4th level:

 

Barring Deaths Door: Hard to make the current effect stronger to justify being a 4th level spell. Maybe give big defense bonuses when someone is on very low endurance in addition to its current effect? Or just change it to a level 1 or 2 spell.

Edited February 13, 2016 by limaxophobiacq

[delfador]

Yeah, a lot of lower level priest spells have very small AoE for some reason. None of the other casters have that problem (including Cipher, Chanter).

 

Speaking of Priest spells. In addition to the ones you mentioned:

 

Barbs of Condemnation (1) - it's a good effect when applied automatically by a weapon, but not worth it for 1 target.

 

Instill Doubt (2) - Interdiction gives a better AoE daze. Not to mention, Wizards get it for free from Arcane Assault.

Repulsing Seal (2) - Haven't tested it yet in latest patch, but it was not working in the first patch. On paper the accuracy looks way too low.

Suppress Affliction (2) - Duration is soooo short now.

 

Restore Moderate Stamina (3) - worse than Consecrated Ground or Watchful Presence. All of the direct healing spells are pretty weak.

Pillar of Faith (3) - AoE is too small. Compared to the CC that Wizards and Druids and Ciphers will have by this point, it's very weak. I know priest isn't a CC class, but still, a little would be nice.

 

Searing Seal (4) - Can't see this ever being worth casting, with Devotions and Shining Beacon on the same level.

 

Pillar of Holy Fire (5) - small AoE. I'd rather cast the 4th level spells, if I could. Where are metamagic feats when you need them.

 

Level Six (6) - Just kidding. These spells are godly. 

Level Seven (7) - In case level 6 wasn't crazy good enough.

Edited February 14, 2016 by delfador

[delfador]

Druid spells:

 

The only real issue is lots of redundant pure damage spells. Given the choice between pure damage and damage + debuff/CC, I'll take the latter:

 

Level 1 -- tend to prefer Sunbeam over other damage spells. Blind is such a strong debuff.

Level 2 -- I tend to save these slots for fighting Beasts. So good.

Level 3 -- Returning Storm > all.

Level 4 -- Calling the World's Maw is usual choice here. Overwhelming Wave is strong but hard to target.

Level 5+ lots of good choices

 

I guess the lesson here is Druid's spells are pretty balanced.

[delfador]

Wizards:

 

Level 1: a lot of these spells are pretty weak.

 

Mirrored Image (2): what is up with these "until hit" single use defense spells? I never use them.

Rolling Flame (2): hard to target

 

Level 3: all damage spells are trumped by Kalakoth's Minor Blights.

 

Ironskin (4): it'd be good if it lasted longer.

Flame Shield (4): Wizards usually try not to get hit. It's a good effect in builds for other classes.

Minoletta's Concussive Missiles (4): I'm not a fan of attacks that are split up into a bunch of separate DR checks. So none of the missile spells are really my cup of tea. Usually there's a better use for the spell slot. Now if they were Raw damage ...

 

Wall Of Force (5): didn't seem to do much when I played around with it. It would be cool if the wall had a stronger effect, like stunning or pushing back enemies.

 

Arkemyr's Capricious Hex (6): it's like designed so you save/reload. Meh.

 

Level 7: most of these are pretty weak, with one or two exceptions.

[AndreaColombo]

Speaking of Priest spells. In addition to the ones you mentioned:

 

Level Seven (7) - In case level 6 wasn't crazy good enough.

 

 

Wizards:

 

Level 7: most of these are pretty weak, with one or two exceptions.

 

I'm of the opposite opinion.

 

7th-level Priest spells are rather meh. The full-on Resurrection is good, but I rarely (if ever) need it; Minor Avatar is okaysh but casing Champion's Boon + Crowns For The Faithful is generally better. The other spell is really rather weak and never worth casting.

 

 

7th-level Wizard spells are pretty good. Delayed Blast Fireball deals an insane amount of AoE damage; Ninagauth's Killing Bolt deals an insane amount of single-target damage; Llengrath's Warding Staff is the best weapon-summoning Wizard spell and one I use often; Concelhaut's Crushing Doom is good damage + interrupt. Haven't really used the others too much, but they seem pretty all right too.

Edited February 14, 2016 by AndreaColombo

[Elric Galad]

Mmmm should we speak about 7th druid spell ?

 

Nature's bounty is good but not super convenient to use.

 

Call to the primordial seems a bit random. If only it could summon an adragan instead of ooze... What do you think about this spell ?

 

The elemental DR spells is a bit circonstancial and has a too low duration. A few additional seconds would be ok.

 

But druid needs to get a damage spell at this level. Elemental storm or whatever... they are suppoed to be the damage dealing spellcaster...

 

 

Stasis field is crap too by the way.

[ottffsse]

Mmmm should we speak about 7th druid spell ?

 

Nature's bounty is good but not super convenient to use.

 

Call to the primordial seems a bit random. If only it could summon an adragan instead of ooze... What do you think about this spell ?

 

The elemental DR spells is a bit circonstancial and has a too low duration. A few additional seconds would be ok.

 

But druid needs to get a damage spell at this level. Elemental storm or whatever... they are suppoed to be the damage dealing spellcaster...

 

 

Stasis field is crap too by the way.

Stuff like lvl 7 single target cc spell like stasis field would be good if they were instant casts, and bypassed all enemy saves and resistances so guaranteed the effect no matter the enemy and immediately.

[Elric Galad]

 

...

 

Stasis field is crap too by the way.

Stuff like lvl 7 single target cc spell like stasis field would be good if they were instant casts, and bypassed all enemy saves and resistances so guaranteed the effect no matter the enemy and immediately.

 

 

Exactly ! This spell should have some unique feature like a crazy Accuracy bonus !

 

 

 

As general rule, weak spell is not a big issue for class balance, as long as each spell level has a couple of good spells, and a couple of circonstancial ones. For Cipher and Chanter whose spells share the same ressource, it is not even a problem if a spell level is completely crap (cipher level 6 and 7 spells are currently not very good, for example.)

It is not nice, but not so bad.

 

Weak abilities is much more a problem, especially when they invalidate some class build, or when the single top level abilities are not balanced.

 

For example, at level 13 :

Twin Arrows, Sacred Immolation > Dichotomous Soul (nerfed in 3.0) >> Dragon Leap, Sunder Blow, Sap

 

Barbarian class is a good example because none of their level 9+ abilities are real game changer IMHO.

(except possibly Heart of Fury, but "1 per rest" is not so nice.) 

Edited February 14, 2016 by Elric Galad

[limaxophobiacq]

Yeah, a lot of lower level priest spells have very small AoE for some reason. None of the other casters have that problem (including Cipher, Chanter).

 

Speaking of Priest spells. In addition to the ones you mentioned:

 

Barbs of Condemnation (1) - it's a good effect when applied automatically by a weapon, but not worth it for 1 target.

 

Instill Doubt (2) - Interdiction gives a better AoE daze. Not to mention, Wizards get it for free from Arcane Assault.

Repulsing Seal (2) - Haven't tested it yet in latest patch, but it was not working in the first patch. On paper the accuracy looks way too low.

Suppress Affliction (2) - Duration is soooo short now.

 

Restore Moderate Stamina (3) - worse than Consecrated Ground or Watchful Presence. All of the direct healing spells are pretty weak.

Pillar of Faith (3) - AoE is too small. Compared to the CC that Wizards and Druids and Ciphers will have by this point, it's very weak. I know priest isn't a CC class, but still, a little would be nice.

 

Searing Seal (4) - Can't see this ever being worth casting, with Devotions and Shining Beacon on the same level.

 

Pillar of Holy Fire (5) - small AoE. I'd rather cast the 4th level spells, if I could. Where are metamagic feats when you need them.

 

Level Six (6) - Just kidding. These spells are godly. 

Level Seven (7) - In case level 6 wasn't crazy good enough.

 

Seal spells have higher accuracy than they say they do when you mouse over them. They're quite good. Prone and Blind are never bad.

 

Barbs of condemnation I've used on level 2 to kill that outlaw you meet when traveling from Cilant Lis at the start of the game, so not 100% useless.

 

Instill Doubt has a lot better duration than either Arcane Assault or Interdiction. Though it could probably stand to be Fast.

 

Suppress Affliction might be short duration but its still a lifesaver, with the lower duration there's now actually a reason to use Minor Intercession (though Minor Intercession could probably still be buffed to remove 10 rather than 5 seconds of hostile duration since it isn't improved by Intellect).

 

Pillar of faith is good already. The AoE is small but the duration is a longer than Prone effect for other classes (10 seconds vs. 4 seconds for slicken and 7 seconds for calling the worlds maw), also the prone is +15 accuracy instead of +10.

 

Pillar of Holy Fire does a lot of damage and has twice the range of the 4th level spells, and again +15 accuracy. It's pretty decent for hitting the enemy backline.

Edited February 14, 2016 by limaxophobiacq

[Elric Galad]

Priests are the omnipotent class in pillars of eternity.

(well, not only in PoE by the way.)

 

Having small AoE for most of their spells is a restriction they can live with.

[limaxophobiacq]

 

Speaking of Priest spells. In addition to the ones you mentioned:

 

Level Seven (7) - In case level 6 wasn't crazy good enough.

 

 

Wizards:

 

Level 7: most of these are pretty weak, with one or two exceptions.

 

I'm of the opposite opinion.

 

7th-level Priest spells are rather meh. The full-on Resurrection is good, but I rarely (if ever) need it; Minor Avatar is okaysh but casing Champion's Boon + Crowns For The Faithful is generally better. The other spell is really rather weak and never worth casting.

 

 

Yeah while Minor Avatar is cool, buffing the entire party with Crowns is almost always superior to just buffing yourself. Probably amazing on a solo run though.

 

Storm of Holy Fire is great. With buffed Intellect it hits 6-7 times for ~40 burn damage each time with Scion of Flame and the AoE is gigantic. It doesn't have the CC/debuff of druid spells like Relentless Storm/Plague of Insects but it does more damage faster than either of those two.

Edited February 14, 2016 by limaxophobiacq

[limaxophobiacq]

Is stasis field really that bad? It's got such a long duration that you should do OK even if you just graze with it and since it's not a listed status effect I don't think anyone has resistance or immunity to it?

 

 

Mmmm should we speak about 7th druid spell ?

Nature's bounty is good but not super convenient to use.

Call to the primordial seems a bit random. If only it could summon an adragan instead of ooze... What do you think about this spell ?

The elemental DR spells is a bit circonstancial and has a too low duration. A few additional seconds would be ok.

But druid needs to get a damage spell at this level. Elemental storm or whatever... they are suppoed to be the damage dealing spellcaster...


Stasis field is crap too by the way.

 

Nature's Bounty is super awkward. It's not striktly speaking bad, but really awkward compared to priest buffs that just work and dont force everyone to take time to drink potions.

 

Elemental DR duration is incredibly short, could really go from 10 to 15 second duration, and also really seems like the kind of spell that should be fast cast so you can throw it down in reaction to an enemy spell.

Edited February 14, 2016 by limaxophobiacq

[Wolken3156]

Personally when it comes to weak spells, my opinions are:
Cipher
Mind Plague - You're better off using Scrolls of Confusion instead. This costs too much Focus to use, especially when a consumable does the same thing.
Stasis Shell - Too situational and costs way too much Focus. Against a dangerous target you'd be better off Charming or Dominating them.
 
Druid
Dancing Bolts - The damage is very low compared to Talon's Reach and Sunbeam, its barely worth the larger range.
Blizzard - They nerfed it too hard, its not even worth casting now. With the addition of spell mastery though, they could change it back. It was only overpowered when it became a per encounter spell you could toss out 4 times in a row.
Call to the Primordials - Too random. If you get Frost Oozes or Swamp Oozes, its alright. But if you get Black Oozes you've wasted a cast since they're not very strong at all, despite how threatening they are during early game.
 
Priest
Instill Doubt - You can use Interdiction for the exact same thing and with vastly superior range as well. Worthless garbage.
Circle of Protection - The duration is painfully short. You can use a Scroll for identical effects plus a much better duration.
Barring Death's Door - Its only worth using under certain settings.
 
Wizard
Kalakoth's Sunless Grasp - The big problem is that this is a melee spell. -10 Accuracy on a single enemy isn't worth moving into melee range, especially when you have Chill Fog on the same level. The damage it deals is mediocre as well, and you'd be better off using Jolting Touch which deals much more damage and can affect multiple enemies.
Thrust of Tattered Veils - There's much better sources of interrupts available. On this level this even includes Minoletta's Minor Missiles, which has much greater range and can deal solid damage on top of interrupting the enemy.
Minor Grimoire Imprint - Considering how powerful a lot of 4th-level spells are, using up a 4th-level use in favor of an enemy's 3rd-level or lower spell isn't very good. Especially since you have no control over which spell you gain.
 

Level 7: most of these are pretty weak, with one or two exceptions.

Disagree. When it comes to 7th level spells, Wizards definitely got the best deal out of all the classes.
 
Concelhaut's Crushing Doom - Good damage plus it Prones with each hit, make it a great tool for stunlocking a dangerous target. The only downside is that this spell is only available after clearing Cragholdt.
Delayed Fireball - Really high burst damage, and probably the best burst spell overall due to its delayed nature. You can set it as a trap for advancing enemies or use it directly on top of them, pair it up with Reflex lowering afflictions and the damage is quite incredible. Also, it has a fast cast speed, so yeah, this one is a real winner.
Llengrath's Warding Staff - This doesn't deal as much damage as the other summoned weapons, but it does knocks back enemies with each attack, making it a really good weapon for keeping enemies off the Wizard or anyone in the party. The initial knock back is also quite good but also affects party members which can be a problem.
Ninagauth's Killing Bolt - This deals a massive amount of Raw damage and if you kill someone with it you get a Spectre in your party to help out. The Spectre has Sneak Attacks and can Stun with its auto-attacks just like the Chanter summon.
Substantial Phantom - Its identical to Essential Phantom, though it does have some decent spells to cast, with Necrotic Lance and Minoletta's Minor Missiles among them. Its a very good summon, plus it allows you to switch out Essential Phantom for another spell as well, which is nice as there's a lot of good 4th-level spells ^^
Tayn's Chaotic Orb - The afflictions it does is random but this spell is really good for three reasons. First, since it works like Chain Lightning or Firebug, this spell can disperse in a wide area. Secondly, this spell has the potential to hit the same target multiple times, which can make it very damaging if there's only a small number of enemies, especially if you factor in Combusting Wounds. Third, even if the afflictions it inflicts are random, they're all powerful ones anyway! The "weakest" out the stuff it can inflict is Sickened, but tbh, it does lower Fort, which is always welcomed anyway.
Wall of Draining - If you fight enemies with buffs, this spell is a good alternative to Arcane Dampener or Deprive of the Unworthy. This can also make your self-buffs last for an incredibly long time. This spell alone makes the final battle very easy.
 

Is stasis field really that bad? It's got such a long duration that you should do OK even if you just graze with it and since it's not a listed status effect I don't think anyone has resistance or immunity to it?

The real issue is that it costs 70 Focus. Nothing is immune to it though, so functionally you could use it on enemies like you would with Forcefield in Dragon Age: Origins.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Wolken3156

[limaxophobiacq]

On wizard spells, even with triple the duration, I still feel Ryngrims Enervating Terror suffers from 'why would I not cast Call to Slumber instead?' with the spells not having enough differentiation (same level, same AoE, same defense targeted), and could have it's AoE increased so it has more cases where you'd want to cast it. Maybe have it's AoE increased by a lot, from current 2.5 to 4 but it's duration shortened to 15 seconds rather than 20? So many enemies are Fear/Terrified immune anyway in 3.0.

[Francis Ironwood]

Does anyone like any of the barbarian abilities besides Frenzy and Savage Defiance? I was so dissapointed with the dragon jump thingy. Requires like what? level 13? Damage is not massive and it inflict frigging Daze...frigging Daze. Maybe I just don't like barbarians.

[Wolken3156]

On wizard spells, even with triple the duration, I still feel Ryngrims Enervating Terror suffers from 'why would I not cast Call to Slumber instead?' with the spells not having enough differentiation (same level, same AoE, same defense targeted), and could have it's AoE increased so it has more cases where you'd want to cast it. Maybe have it's AoE increased by a lot, from current 2.5 to 4 but it's duration shortened to 15 seconds rather than 20? So many enemies are Fear/Terrified immune anyway in 3.0.

Call to Slumber only lasts 6secs as opposed to Enervating Terror's 20secs. Also Dragons and Vessels are immune to Call to Slumber, whereas not too many enemies are immune to Weakened.

 

Also Enervating Terror has a range of 20m, Call to Slumber can only reach half as far.

 

Does anyone like any of the barbarian abilities besides Frenzy and Savage Defiance? I was so dissapointed with the dragon jump thingy. Requires like what? level 13? Damage is not massive and it inflict frigging Daze...frigging Daze. Maybe I just don't like barbarians.

Wild Sprint is fun, but yeah I typically only use Frenzy and Savage Defiance. Barbaric Shout would've been a good ability if it were per encounter instead.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Wolken3156

[MaxQuest]

Under-powered spells/talents in my opinion would be:

 

- [Priest] Barbs of Condemnation: single target, low duration. against fortitude. 

- [Priest] Divine Terror: small aoe, low duration, weak effect. (i'd better be with chanter for frightening)

- [Priest] Barring Death's Door: if it would also restore health, it would be awesome. As it is now - not quite. If you have a priest or just a well-thought party composition, companions fall down usually to the lack of health not endurance.

 

- [Cipher] Soul Ignition: too slow. The damage is nice, but usually overkill. It would be ok if remaining duration would jump to the next enemy, once the target is dead. 

- [Cipher] Recall Agony: just show in log, total damage dealt. 

- [Cipher] Wild Leech: not going to cast an average-speed spell for a random effect.

 

- [Wizard] Kalakoth's Sunless Grasp: -10 acc on a single target? from melee range? No wonder Aloth was getting slammed so often...

- [Wizard] Ryngrim's Repulsive Visage: do I want to debuff my own party? No. With a super long duration I would might come with a specific strategy around this spell. But atm it's meh. Seems like a solo wizard spell.

 

- [Talent] Bloody Slaughter: 10% endurance threshold? The target is already as good as dead. This seems to be good only on BleakWalker/Wayfarer paladin with Sacred Immolation.

- [Talent] Mental Fortress: investing in anti-charm, you expect some actual return. You don't get it from this talent. 

- [Talent] Field Triage/Wound Binding: talents meant to be taken if you have low-con tanks in party. But no, i will just rest. 

- [Talent] Shot on the Run: could be nice on kiting character with slow ranged weapon. But it doesn't affect reloading time...

- [Talent] Brutal Backlash: my cipher deals a ton of damage. Why would I get this? For 20-40 damage on single target that happened to target his will defense?

- [Talent] Reviving Exhortation: what can this talent do, what reviving scrolls can't?

- [Talent] Greater Lay on Hands: Lay on Hands already heals a lot. It heals for tanks full hp. It would be better if instead of extra 50% endurance restoration it would provide a similar value damage barrier.

- [Talent] Marked Prey: average cast time? So I could cast marked prey and send 4 arrows, or don't cast anything and send 5 arrows? So what's the point?

Edited February 14, 2016 by MaxQuest

[Elric Galad]

Does anyone like any of the barbarian abilities besides Frenzy and Savage Defiance? I was so dissapointed with the dragon jump thingy. Requires like what? level 13? Damage is not massive and it inflict frigging Daze...frigging Daze. Maybe I just don't like barbarians.

 

Frenzy and Savage Defiance are good. Theatening Presence is really nice.

 

One Stand alone is nice as long as you use barbarian as an Off-Tank.

With damage malus from Carnage, barabrian are certainly the most "damage bonus" starved of all class.

If you hit like 3 ennemies per attack (reasonable in most case), then a +20% bonus damage worth like a +60% bonus.

It is still a bit conditional.

 

Blooded does not worth lossing half of you life.

 

Vengeful defeat favors too weird tactics for my taste.

 

Both shouts are pathetic imitation of casters. 

 

Thick-Skinned is not very good, but it is one of the rare barbarian ability useful in most cases.

 

Bloodlust is far too much circonstancial unless playing solo, and it is not even powerful enough when activated.

 

Eye of the storm is pathetic as an anti-combo with One Stand Alone.

And circonstancial.

 

Dragon Leap seems more a mobility stuff. Barbarian are the only class who can position exactly where they want. I don't think it is a bad ability as it adds something to the build.

It is a bit cheap as an ultimate stuff by the way.

 

Wild Sprint is a cheap Dragon Leap.

 

Heart of Fury looks powerful but... 1 per rest.

 

 

Basically most of Barbarian abilities are either too circonstancial, or just lack raw power.

Only Carnage saves the class.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Elric Galad

[Wolken3156]

- [Cipher] Recall Agony: just show in log, total damage dealt.

Recall Agony does show in the combat log. It applies all the damage you dealt while it was active once it wears off as a (likely) huge chunk of Raw damage.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Wolken3156

[Boeroer]

Does anyone like any of the barbarian abilities besides Frenzy and Savage Defiance? I was so dissapointed with the dragon jump thingy. Requires like what? level 13? Damage is not massive and it inflict frigging Daze...frigging Daze. Maybe I just don't like barbarians.

Heart of Fury:

Nobody ever takes Heart of Fury because it's 1/rest and nobody understands what the description really means. So nobody ever experiences what an awesome ability this is (especially with high INT and dual wielding weapons with on hit/crit effects and annihilation). You can win difficult mob fights with this alone. I it would be 1/encounter it would be too good - but maybe 2 or 3/rest would be ok. If you pair this with Combusting Wounds, an ACC buff and deflection debuff, Death's Usher and Bloody Slaughter it gets really ridiculous.

 

Brute Force + Threatening Presence:

A lot of people say "Don't take this, it's a trap!". But it isn't if you have another party member who can apply Weakened in an AoE. Suddely your barb becomes a crit machine against mobs whose fortitude is not 40 points higher that their deflection. A priest with Painful Interdiction and a barb make a great team. I play this every now and then beause it's just fun. It is great for DPS, CC and - of course - Heart of Fury.

 

Dragon Leap:

It depends what you want to do with your barb. Sometimes I build a "sticky tank": A barb with 3 RES but high MIG, INT and CON. Barbaric Yell, Threatening Presence, Shod-in-Faith, Sanguine Plate, Vengeful Defeat, One Stands Alone and the Watchful Cloak MKII (=you can only be flanked if 5 people attack you simultaniously). Since his deflection is so low everybody wants to hit him and doesn't run towards my backline. Dragon Leap is great for being the first to jump into the middle of the mob and start shouting and hitting. Because of Shod-in-Faith and his enormous endurance/health he doesn't die quickly, even if disabled. If he gets knocked out he dishes out some good damage at least. With a paladin or chanter you can revive him and start all over again. He's like a "CC bait". But I agree that this ability is very situational and should do some more "oomph".

 

Many of the barb's abilities require to build your char around it. That makes most of them either meh or yeah - depending on your build. A barb also is no good solo character. He depends on his team mates and also items. That's why I love barbs so much.

 

What I really dislike are the highest lvl chanter invocations. Man, those are really worthless. One of my favourite classes and see what it can do with it's top-tier invocations: the chanter may summon a... Mushroom! Whoooha! :|

Edited February 14, 2016 by Boeroer

[DreamWayfarer]

Double Post

Edited February 14, 2016 by DreamWayfarer

[DreamWayfarer]

 

- [Cipher] Recall Agony: just show in log, total damage dealt.

Recall Agony does show in the combat log. It applies all the damage you dealt while it was active once it wears off as a (likely) huge chunk of Raw damage.

That is not what I experienced, but 3.0 may have changed it. For me, after each few hits the enemy took, there was some raw damage from Recall Agony.

[Elric Galad]

 

Does anyone like any of the barbarian abilities besides Frenzy and Savage Defiance? I was so dissapointed with the dragon jump thingy. Requires like what? level 13? Damage is not massive and it inflict frigging Daze...frigging Daze. Maybe I just don't like barbarians.

Heart of Fury:

Nobody ever takes Heart of Fury because it's 1/rest and nobody understands what the description really means. So nobody ever experiences what an awesome ability this is (especially with high INT and dual wielding weapons with on hit/crit effects and annihilation). You can win difficult mob fights with this alone. I it would be 1/encounter it would be too good - but maybe 2 or 3/rest would be ok. If you pair this with Combusting Wounds, an ACC buff and deflection debuff, Death's Usher and Bloody Slaughter it gets really ridiculous.

 

Brute Force + Threatening Presence:

A lot of people say "Don't take this, it's a trap!". But it isn't if you have another party member who can apply Weakened in an AoE. Suddely your barb becomes a crit machine against mobs whose fortitude is not 40 points higher that their deflection. A priest with Painful Interdiction and a barb make a great team. I play this every now and then beause it's just fun. It is great for DPS, CC and - of course - Heart of Fury.

 

Dragon Leap:

It depends what you want to do with your barb. Sometimes I build a "sticky tank": A barb with 3 RES but high MIG, INT and CON. Barbaric Yell, Threatening Presence, Shod-in-Faith, Sanguine Plate, Vengeful Defeat, One Stands Alone and the Watchful Cloak MKII (=you can only be flanked if 5 people attack you simultaniously). Since his deflection is so low everybody wants to hit him and doesn't run towards my backline. Dragon Leap is great for being the first to jump into the middle of the mob and start shouting and hitting. Because of Shod-in-Faith and his enormous endurance/health he doesn't die quickly, even if disabled. If he gets knocked out he dishes out some good damage at least. With a paladin or chanter you can revive him and start all over again. He's like a "CC bait". But I agree that this ability is very situational and should do some more "oomph".

 

Many of the barb's abilities require to build your char around it. That makes most of them either meh or yeah - depending on your build. A barb also is no good solo character. He depends on his team mates and also items. That's why I love barbs so much.

 

What I really dislike are the highest lvl chanter invocations. Man, those are really worthless. One of my favourite classes and see what it can do with it's top-tier invocations: the chanter may summon a... Mushroom! Whoooha! :|

 

 

Heart of fury annoys me because I don't like Per Rest so much.

But I agree it has an awesome potential.

What annoys me too is that it is one of the few reasons to play dual wield as a barbarian. Given how carnage works, +15% damage from 2 hander and high base damage are specially sweet for barbarian. So I have choice between Optimizing heart of fury, and Optimizing basic swings.

I can prevent myself from being annoyed by this kind of details 

 

I do understand why Painful Interdiction could work so well with Brute Force, but there is also an incredible amount of ways to debuff deflection.

 

 

The very problem of barbarian is that there is too much half-gimped abilities.

Bloodlust, seriously ? So much circonstancial stuff for such a low effect ? When it may trigger, the battle is probably already over.

Eye of the Storm ? Did any designers even think that it was going to deactivate One Stand Alone ? And the effect was basically pitiful for level 11. Just cancelling a few hits from weaklings...

And the shouts ? Why barbarians are trying to behave like casters ? If only it could at least have a fast casting time... Action economy is indeed a martial class stuff... (and that's why Threatening Presence is such a good design by the way). 

Wild Sprint ? How many mediocre mobility stuff should barbarian get ? Now that Dragon Leap exist, what is the point of this skill ?

 

When you remove all this weird stuff, all that remains are a couple of circonstancial abilities (like Vengeful Defeat, the pessimistic little brother of Heart of Fury  ).

 

My own build would be Frenzy, Savage Defiance, One Stand Alone, Thick Skinned, Threatening Presence, Heart of Fury and Dragon Leap.

But I wished I had the choice not to take Heart of Fury which doesn't suit my tastes, or Thick Skinned which is not that awesome (compared to Armored Grace, for example).

I wish I had non default-choices.

 

 

I don't say that the class concept itself is bad. Carnage might be the coolest design choice of PoE, lore-wise AND mechanic-wise.

But a bit more "Yeah !" "Owww !" and "OMG !" on level up would be cool.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Elric Galad

[MaxQuest]

 

- [Cipher] Recall Agony: just show in log, total damage dealt.

Recall Agony does show in the combat log. It applies all the damage you dealt while it was active once it wears off as a (likely) huge chunk of Raw damage.

 

I have triple checked ingame now. Combat log only shows that Recall Agony was applied (that acc vs will check). It doesn't display the damage dealt. Neither after each damage appliance, nor at the end of duration.. (

 

- update -

Have checked it in slow motion. At least there are red fly-over numbers from agony, which popup over the enemy target.

Tested it in combination with cipher dots.

With Soul Ignition ticking for 12, agony was dealing 3 dmg.

With Disintegration ticking for 24, agony was dealing 6 dmg.

So it's 25%. And it deals damage after ~1.5s delay from damage appliance.

Edited February 14, 2016 by MaxQuest

[Boeroer]

I do understand why Painful Interdiction could work so well with Brute Force, but there is also an incredible amount of ways to debuff deflection.

The great thing about this is that it's not only more than -40 fortitude (great for all other kinds of CC - like prone on weapons, many cc spells), but also more than -30 will (your cipher loves you) and some other, minor stat debuffing. And this you can all achieve with a single, low level per-encounter ability. The rest is just passive. Very low micro, no per-rest resources, huge effect. It's great - not only for the barb's Brute Force, but for everybody in the gang who targets fort or will.

Edited February 14, 2016 by Boeroer