Please tell me I heard incorrectly

[HawkSoft]

I seem to recall many of those stories are just... poorly written. Which is why it would surprise me to learn that Obs' writers did them.

Just because OBS wrote them to ensure they were lore friendly doesn't mean that the PoE Writers wrote them.

If it was me I'd have organised a competition for all the staff and just have the main Writers act as editors.

 

Think of the good/bad writing as reflection on the souls themselves, some may be great raconteurs whilst others are idiot savants.

[Ineth]

What I meant is I seem to recall many of those stories are just... poorly written.

 

That doesn't match my recollection, but then again I stopped reading them relatively soon.

 

Which is why it would surprise me to learn that Obs' writers did them.

 

Pretty sure they did.

 

Look at the memorials to get an idea of the quality of writing of backer-contributed text...

[Dumaraz]

So I am finishing up Divinity: Original Sin, and while it is an excellent game, it is SEVERELY marred by the over the top humor absolutely oozing out of it. I was really looking forward to PoE for a return to deep, classic rgp's where you can get immersed and lost in the world.

 

I just heard however from someone that kickstarter backers were allowed to add npc's to the game with stories of their own choosing, humorous, sometimes fourth wall breaking stories that do not fit with the rest of the dialogue/tone of the game, and that these npc's are golden and strewn around the game world.

 

That can't possibly be true can it? Surely I am understanding this wrong...

28-hours in [total-hours played as of today], and I had no-idea about the gold-plated chars until the a load-screen [tool-tip] revealed that these chars are all backer-content.

 

You know what i did after that? I was barely 2hrs into the game in the first major village.

 

I avoided ALL GOLD-Plated chars ever since, because, as many have already mentioned, although these chars look COOL, they have no-effect on the game/lore/side-quest/story... 

 

Secondly, I think the WALL-OF-TEXT these chars have is just TOO-much and painful for my eyes to read...

 

They need to paragraph format these things man. [All backer chars lack Voice-acting, so, I happily avoid clicking them when I see them.]

 

If any of you backers /contributors are reading this post, I'm sorry I avoid all gold-plated chars, and ALL TOMBSTONES everywhere I go because I personally find WALLS-OF-TEST annoying, although I love this game to death.

 

@Obsidian, I don't know why, but I *hate* the concept of filling the game with these random people / Tombstones whom I specifically avoid... I wish you guys did something else, I imagine this was a stretch-goal promise or something, but still... It's like, these stupid chars are EVERYWHERE, and just perhaps they could've been more meaningful text or voice-acting or something...?

 

If there was a console-command to delete them and along with the tombstones in graveyards, I would... That's how utterly annoying I found it, I just feel like it was unnecessary filler.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Dumaraz

[Gfted1]

Ah, but I think you can kill them off for some good loot, without suffering a reputation hit.

[Zenbane]

I enjoy the Tombstone and Gold NPC's. I'm not an official backer, but I can't imagine why others would have such animosity towards backer text appearing in a text-based RPG. If you hate "wall of text" then I have no idea how you managed to get beyond the introduction. I can't help but think that people who complain about backer backgrounds in the game via NPC's and Tombstones are simply jealous. That's how it comes across, at least.

[Lychnidos]

Hahah  .  People are mostly bothered because they stick out like a sore thumb, with the garishly colored nameplates and names most likely written by monkeys on keyboards where the only consonants were X,Y,Z,J.

[Zenbane]

Hahah  .  People are mostly bothered because they stick out like a sore thumb, with the garishly colored nameplates and names most likely written by monkeys on keyboards where the only consonants were X,Y,Z,J.

 

lol, indeed. Although, couldn't we also say that the people complaining are similar monkeys behind similar keyboards?

[Dumaraz]

I enjoy the Tombstone and Gold NPC's. I'm not an official backer, but I can't imagine why others would have such animosity towards backer text appearing in a text-based RPG. If you hate "wall of text" then I have no idea how you managed to get beyond the introduction. I can't help but think that people who complain about backer backgrounds in the game via NPC's and Tombstones are simply jealous. That's how it comes across, at least.

 

Here's my thing... Cause you know, you could respond directly and quote-me rather than being passive-aggressive.

 

I explained exactly *why* i didn't like the features... At the core, its because it has NOTHING to do with the game/ lore/story/ quest-rewards  /side-quests, anything!

 

It's literally just NPC that are worthless and generally serve no-purpose...

 

Is this really that hard to comprehend that I wish it was MEANINGFUL?!

 

The tombstones to read feel like a last-min JOKE... I'm hoping for some LORE about real-chars or relevant people that died in-game, and its just nonsensical signatures that completely RUIN IMMERSION!

 

Is this a truly hard-concept for you to grasp?

 

If this was all in a town isolated from the story and chars/main-game places, it would be different. [Then, they are not just taking up space and mixed in with real-content that I now readily avoid, and it feels stupid that I just don't ever wish to hover over tomb-stones in mausoleums for meaningful content as I would in BG or Icewindale cause I know its just stupid irrelevant stuff.] 

Edited February 9, 2016 by Dumaraz

[Gfted1]

Several of the inns were also made by high level backers/groups.

[Zenbane]

Here's my thing... Cause you know, you could respond directly and quote-me rather than being passive-aggressive.

 

 Well I could quote where you said, "I personally find WALLS-OF-TEST annoying," but then I might be compelled to point out the bad spelling. I would just rather make a general reference to what you were trying to say, "you personally find a wall of text annoying," and give you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you can either remember what you said, or scroll up to reference it. I guess I was too generous though.

 

Nothing you said just now counters the fact that someone who finds a wall of text annoying would have a hard time in any of the main elements of PoE, since it is full of walls of text.

 

I find your long-winded explanations to be lengthy attempts to hide the fact that you (appear) jaded by the fact that people who paid larger sums of money to support this game ended up with an icon and text. Your argument of "breaking immersion" seems like a default sound bite. In this case, the backer NPC's and Tombstones serve as little more than easy-to-find Easter Eggs. The gaming industry is full of Easter Eggs, and gamers have historically enjoyed trying to find them. One could argue that Easter Eggs break immersion, but if that's a real problem you're experience while playing the game, then the issue is more player related as opposed to game related.

 

One of my favorite Easter Eggs is from the NES Game, "The Immortal." If you complete a certain level a certain way, you can meet the game developers and bring them Coffee. I find things like this to be quite enjoyable, whereas you are trying to focus on the lack of immersion; which I find silly.

 

At best, PoE is guilty of too many openly found Easter Eggs. However, I find them to be a pleasant edition to the ever evolving gaming industry.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Zenbane

[MunoValente]

For me, the problem with backer NPC lies mostly with their names. They break fourth wall like nobody's business. Come on, guys, was it so hard to give them something lore-friendly, instead of weakly disguised pastiches of real names and video game characters? I mean, Reirnu Xalxijrei? Really? What's next, Gearaldo From Reavaia? Macks Paiihn? Ryuyu Hayabuzza? Johhnei Smid? Jane Doo?

 

I have no idea what Reirnu Xalxijrei is referencing, so I could easily see how someone else could miss it as well.

[Ineth]

Nothing you said just now counters the fact that someone who finds a wall of text annoying would have a hard time in any of the main elements of PoE, since it is full of walls of text.

 

Where?

 

There are long-ish conversations on the critical path, but they are broken up into small dialog snippets, and - the important ones at least - even voiced.

 

That's not what people mean when they say "wall of text".

[why]

Several of the inns were also made by high level backers/groups.

Yep, and those worked out just fine.  I can kind of see why some folks don't like the NPCs.  I get it.  I just don't understand the depth of feeling over it.  It's not as if there haven't been an abundance of goofy, fluffy, silly, or just plain idiotic headstones, NPCs, item descriptions, and other nonsense in the games that putatively provided the template for Pillars.  It strains credulity that some people would be up in arms to the extent that they are.  Hey, I think folks should bitch about stuff they don't like, but it's such a minor issue.  Maybe it's a good sign that the game is generally excellent that people complain about the NPC tier funding mechanism.

 

It's funny because there's some random thread about the old watcher at Caed Nua and someone thought I was being meanspirited there when I was just being goofy.  Conversely, I actually do find some of the arguments here borderline contemptible.  I hope not to have real animosity over them, but those NPC tier backers provided a lot of funding for this game.  Sure, if the argument (as I understand it from some people) is to change the future process in order to make the NPCs more seamless, that's cool.  I can see where they might get on a player's nerves.  It took a second for me to wrap my head around them, and maybe it's harder for some people to get over the implementation.  Help out those folks by improving how to concept translates into the game.  On the other hand, if the idea is to castigate the folks who footed a chunk of the bill by paying for what Obsidian wisely offered in order to infuse some green into the bottom line, then I'll respect other people's right to complain by complaining about them.  I think Obsidian did it generally right and I suppose, if they do another kickstarter, they'll do it even better.  The first kickstarter was like sex for the first time.  Didn't know exactly what to expect and didn't know what you were doing, you made a few mistakes, but neither of you could wait to do it again.  I mean, the backers do I hope.  I don't have money for kickstarters.  I'm on a tight budget.

 

Now that I've done my own bitching, I guess I'll go back to the bleachers and watch the rest of the match.  I'm too lazy to complain for long and I refuse to hold a grudge with some misguided spirit who over inflates the 'horrible' consequences of backer crafted NPCs in Pillars 1.

[Zenbane]

Where?

 

There are long-ish conversations on the critical path, but they are broken up into small dialog snippets, and - the important ones at least - even voiced.

 

That's not what people mean when they say "wall of text".

 

 

For starters, I was not talking about "what people mean" in a general sense. If you read the conversation, I was talking to a specific person about what that person is specifically stating in regards to Walls of Text.

 

As for your question, there are plenty of walls of text:

 

1) Beastiary entries

http://orcz.com/images/thumb/0/03/PillarsofEternityBestiaryAdraDragon.jpg/600px-PillarsofEternityBestiaryAdraDragon.jpg

 

2) Weapon info

http://www.gamebanshee.com/baldursgateii/equipment/images/shortswordofmaskplus5.jpg

 

3) Character sheets

http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/adam/123e2b16128934e9aec5e3f297c83a4/pe-ui-character-sheet.jpg

 

There's even walls of text describing walls in text:

http://fox.mmgn.com/Lib/Images/Reviews/normal/pillars-of-eternity-review-1116151.jpg

 

 

Now, provide a screenshot of any NPC in PoE who presents a wall of text that exceeds those standards - since that is what this portion of the conversation is actually about.

[Dumaraz]

 

Here's my thing... Cause you know, you could respond directly and quote-me rather than being passive-aggressive.

 

 Well I could quote where you said, "I personally find WALLS-OF-TEST annoying," but then I might be compelled to point out the bad spelling. I would just rather make a general reference to what you were trying to say, "you personally find a wall of text annoying," and give you the benefit of the doubt by assuming you can either remember what you said, or scroll up to reference it. I guess I was too generous though.

 

Nothing you said just now counters the fact that someone who finds a wall of text annoying would have a hard time in any of the main elements of PoE, since it is full of walls of text.

 

I find your long-winded explanations to be lengthy attempts to hide the fact that you (appear) jaded by the fact that people who paid larger sums of money to support this game ended up with an icon and text. Your argument of "breaking immersion" seems like a default sound bite. In this case, the backer NPC's and Tombstones serve as little more than easy-to-find Easter Eggs. The gaming industry is full of Easter Eggs, and gamers have historically enjoyed trying to find them. One could argue that Easter Eggs break immersion, but if that's a real problem you're experience while playing the game, then the issue is more player related as opposed to game related.

 

One of my favorite Easter Eggs is from the NES Game, "The Immortal." If you complete a certain level a certain way, you can meet the game developers and bring them Coffee. I find things like this to be quite enjoyable, whereas you are trying to focus on the lack of immersion; which I find silly.

 

At best, PoE is guilty of too many openly found Easter Eggs. However, I find them to be a pleasant edition to the ever evolving gaming industry.

 

 

... "WALL-OF-TEXT", is bad spelling? I didn't spell anything wrong, you did... Wtf are you talking about?

 

"Well I could quote where you said, "I personally find WALLS-OF-TEST annoying,"

 

1. Pillars of Eternity is not filled with walls of text. They have *paragraph* formatting with NPC's and then of-course, voice-acting which is a great addition for immersion!

 

- Wait... Are you actually reading what wrote?! This is becoming a waste of time... 

 

2. I didn't pay a single dime to back this game. Nothing to be jaded or jealous about, actually... I wanted a *good* product and I watched from the sidelines and waited months after release which was the best decision I ever made.

 

Again, my points are missed on your ignorance.

 

I clearly state why I'm frustrated with how it feels like useless filler that I specifically avoid and I really *don't* want to, but my mind is programmed to avoid useless content.

 

For a *gamer* who likes to read walls-of-text [you], I can't understand how my *specific points* are utterly missed upon you as you cherry-pick my comments for the sake of your weak argument.

 

Context-clues are fundamental -- Come on man, come up with something better.

 

Lastly, if you're gonna quote someone, do it-right, or don't do it at all.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Dumaraz

[Zenbane]

"WALL-OF-TEXT", is bad spelling? I didn't spell anything wrong, you did... Wtf are you talking about?

 

Go re-read your own post: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/83996-please-tell-me-i-heard-incorrectly/?p=1773660

 

I didn't spell it wrong, I quoted your bad spelling. Here, I will quote it again to help you:

 

and ALL TOMBSTONES everywhere I go because I personally find WALLS-OF-TEST annoying, although I love this game to death.

 

 

 

I didn't pay a single dime to back this game. Nothing to be jaded or jealous about,

 

Well unless you pirated the game, then you paid more than a dime for a legal copy. And like most jealous/jaded people, you are using an online forum to express an overly emotional reaction to other gamers who received special treatment.

 

 

Again, my points are missed on your ignorance.

 

So far you can't even acknowledge your own bad spelling, and instead put the accusation back on me simply because I accurately quoted your bad spelling. I guess we can add the definition of "ignorance" to the list of concepts you are not good at grasping.

 

 

 

Lastly, if you're gonna quote someone, do it-right, or don't do it at all.

 

I quoted your perfectly, you're the one that can't actually look at your own post to see what you did spell it as "TEST." If you're gonna engage in a forum conversation, learn to read better, or don't do it at all.

 

Lastly, I posted screenshots of various "wall of text" qualifiers found in PoE. I challenge you to do the same to back up your weak arguments. Prove it with in-game content. Otherwise you're just proving that this is more about an emotional response and less about a realistic problem with the game.

[Dumaraz]

 

Several of the inns were also made by high level backers/groups.

Yep, and those worked out just fine.  I can kind of see why some folks don't like the NPCs.  I get it.  I just don't understand the depth of feeling over it.  It's not as if there haven't been an abundance of goofy, fluffy, silly, or just plain idiotic headstones, NPCs, item descriptions, and other nonsense in the games that putatively provided the template for Pillars.  It strains credulity that some people would be up in arms to the extent that they are.  Hey, I think folks should bitch about stuff they don't like, but it's such a minor issue.  Maybe it's a good sign that the game is generally excellent that people complain about the NPC tier funding mechanism.

 

It's funny because there's some random thread about the old watcher at Caed Nua and someone thought I was being meanspirited there when I was just being goofy.  Conversely, I actually do find some of the arguments here borderline contemptible.  I hope not to have real animosity over them, but those NPC tier backers provided a lot of funding for this game.  Sure, if the argument (as I understand it from some people) is to change the future process in order to make the NPCs more seamless, that's cool.  I can see where they might get on a player's nerves.  It took a second for me to wrap my head around them, and maybe it's harder for some people to get over the implementation.  Help out those folks by improving how to concept translates into the game.  On the other hand, if the idea is to castigate the folks who footed a chunk of the bill by paying for what Obsidian wisely offered in order to infuse some green into the bottom line, then I'll respect other people's right to complain by complaining about them.  I think Obsidian did it generally right and I suppose, if they do another kickstarter, they'll do it even better.  The first kickstarter was like sex for the first time.  Didn't know exactly what to expect and didn't know what you were doing, you made a few mistakes, but neither of you could wait to do it again.  I mean, the backers do I hope.  I don't have money for kickstarters.  I'm on a tight budget.

 

Now that I've done my own bitching, I guess I'll go back to the bleachers and watch the rest of the match.  I'm too lazy to complain for long and I refuse to hold a grudge with some misguided spirit who over inflates the 'horrible' consequences of backer crafted NPCs in Pillars 1.

 

Here's the thing, fellow-gamer, *every* gamer has a right to *complain* about a feature in said-game; I payed for it. [My concern about "who did what" is of no-concern.]

 

As consumer, I don't care about, *why* [e.g. backer excuses, development shortcomings, under/over-budget issues, Project Manager woes], when I see something I think should be executed *better.*

 

As a gamer/consumer, this isn't my job man, why do the lot of you believe we should worry ourselves with the internals of a product and/or company in hopes of mending our criticisms?! It's a choice, not a requirement to involve one's self so-deep into these politics I care nothing about.

 

If *you* [not you specifically,] don't like to read my criticism, that's your opinion, however *I*, just like *you* have a right to be as *vocal* as possible in hopes of exciting *change* or improvement to said implementation this time or next-time around.

 

My *issue* is not to be minimized because YOU don't or may not agree entirely... Forums exist for this very reason; every gamer is an individual with different tastes, expectations, and peeves.

 

This is *my* complaint.

 

[Dumaraz]

 

"WALL-OF-TEXT", is bad spelling? I didn't spell anything wrong, you did... Wtf are you talking about?

 

Go re-read your own post: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/83996-please-tell-me-i-heard-incorrectly/?p=1773660

 

I didn't spell it wrong, I quoted your bad spelling. Here, I will quote it again to help you:

 

and ALL TOMBSTONES everywhere I go because I personally find WALLS-OF-TEST annoying, although I love this game to death.

 

 

 

I didn't pay a single dime to back this game. Nothing to be jaded or jealous about,

 

Well unless you pirated the game, then you paid more than a dime for a legal copy. And like most jealous/jaded people, you are using an online forum to express an overly emotional reaction to other gamers who received special treatment.

 

 

Again, my points are missed on your ignorance.

 

So far you can't even acknowledge your own bad spelling, and instead put the accusation back on me simply because I accurately quoted your bad spelling. I guess we can add the definition of "ignorance" to the list of concepts you are not good at grasping.

 

 

 

Lastly, if you're gonna quote someone, do it-right, or don't do it at all.

 

I quoted your perfectly, you're the one that can't actually look at your own post to see what you did spell it as "TEST." If you're gonna engage in a forum conversation, learn to read better, or don't do it at all.

 

Lastly, I posted screenshots of various "wall of text" qualifiers found in PoE. I challenge you to do the same to back up your weak arguments. Prove it with in-game content. Otherwise you're just proving that this is more about an emotional response and less about a realistic problem with the game.

 

I give you points on catching my typo that I also missed.

 

I mentioned "Wall-of-Text" 2 times. I didn't see the second one... Hardly a cause for derailing my point, but its what the internet does, ain't it? Focus on further derailment, to lose overall focus of my original points.

 

The forums exist for gamers to voice their opinions in a constructive manner; I'm doing what I'm supposed to do - Not sure why *you* can't grasp this.

 

I mentioned in another post, I payed for this game, therefore, I have every damn right to voice my criticism; get used to seeing people voice their opinions on features that won't be popular to everyone.

 

You don't have to agree, its my *point*, and to minimize it is your own personal problem.

 

I really want to talk about my specific points, not this nit-picking interpersonal BS.

 

[Get on with your life, and ignore my post.]

Edited February 10, 2016 by Dumaraz

[why]

That advocacy works in all directions. As a consumer, I can defend a product on any basis. To be clear, I disagree with initial premise. I don't see a problem from my perspective as a consumer. On the other hand, I don't want to be so personally invested that we start a large complaining about the complaining chain. Hopefully, if they do it again, and I hope they do, it will be tweaked to broader appeal.

 

PS. I do a lot of these posts while hiking and it can be a real bitch to quote and whatnot. Although the ever present that if falling over the side does add piquancy.

Edited February 10, 2016 by why

[Dumaraz]

That advocacy works in all directions. As a consumer, I can defend a product on any basis. To be clear, I disagree with initial premise. I don't see a problem from my perspective as a consumer. On the other hand, I don't want to be so personally invested that we start a large complaining about the complaining chain. Hopefully, if they do it again, and I hope they do, it will be tweaked to broader appeal.

 

PS. I do a lot of these posts while hiking and it can be a real bitch to quote and whatnot. Although the ever present that if falling over the side does add piquancy.

Fair enough, fair enough... I agree for a better 2nd time around -- We'll see.

[Zenbane]

I mentioned "Wall-of-Text" 2 times. I didn't see the second one... Hardly a cause for derailing my point, but its what the internet does, ain't it? Focus on further derailment, to lose overall focus of my original points.

 

Except that you're the one who derailed it by typing a wall of text that includes phrases like: "wtf"; "ignorance"; "you did"; "are you reading"; "quote right" ... to name a few. You dropped a wall of text simply because you couldn't bother to read how you misspelled "wall of test" - which I only pointed out in a half-hearted statement that was a direct response to you demanding that I quote you. Whew!

 

 

The forums exist for gamers to voice their opinions in a constructive manner; I'm doing what I'm supposed to do - Not sure why *you* can't grasp this.

 

You claiming that backer NPC's and Tombstones are displayed in an "annoying wall of text" without actually providing evidence (i.e., a screenshot) is not constructive at all; something you can't seem to grasp. I am simply responding accordingly.

 

 

I have every damn right to voice my criticism; get used to seeing people voice their opinions on features that won't be popular to everyone.

 

I've played this game as well, and have as much "right" to voice my criticism of your criticism. Get used to people voicing their opinions of your opinions.

 

 

I really want to talk about my specific points, not this nit-picking interpersonal BS.

 

If providing evidence to back up your specific points is "nit-picking BS' in your mind, then that just further confirms that the implementation of Backer's via NPC's and Tombstone text is not a real game problem, simply your own personal issue.

 

What I find most interesting about your attempt to lecture on the importance of "the right to express opinions" is the fact that you are expressing a blatant disregard for other peoples opinions:

 

1) You criticize the opinion of PoE developers to include Backers as NPC's

2) You criticize the opinion of PoE developers to include Backers as Tombstone text

3) You criticize the opinion of Backer's when they chose their in-game text

 

As for the few points you made, I already supplied specific counters: immersion is not broken with Backer text since it comes across more as a game Easter Egg; I provided multiple screenshots of large areas of Text found in the normal game as a direct response to the imaginary wall-of-text you claim is an annoyance with Backer NPC's and Tombstones.

 

If you're done derailing the topic with lectures about internet opinions and who really misspelled a word that was purposely typed in ALL CAPS, then maybe you can finally provide a screenshot or two. I'm doubtful tho.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Zenbane

[Tigranes]

Both of you move on. Please. No snarky replies, no need to have the last word, no need to clarify yourself, just move on. Nobody wants to see more.

[Fiaryn]

I don't know why anyone would care about backer NPCs. They're color coded for your convenience to ignore, and some of them have nice little Sensory Stone like stories. They're irrelevant and if the next patch removed them from the game I'd hardly notice.

[PrimeJunta]

I'm only mildly irritated at the non-lore names.

[Yosharian]

I also detest the 'backer NPCs'.  IEMod can remove them or disable their dialogue, iirc.