Turkey shoots down russian jet

[Zoraptor]

Wonder if they're R-77-1s then, I would have said that they'd swapped from bomb only to carrying AAMs at all but there are pictures of Su-34 returning to base carrying missiles so some at least had air-to-air capable load outs before; if they are new weapons then they'd pretty much have to be R-77-1s. I'd bet everything in my bank account that Turkey wouldn't have attacked anything other than a Su-24 anyway, since it fundamentally cannot defend itself against anything approaching a modern fighter. Su-34 isn't really designed as a fighter either but it is actually modern and based on a fighter design, it wouldn't be the equivalent of sneaking up and king hitting an old lady like attacking a Su-24 was.

[Drowsy Emperor]

The US and Turkey did manage to conveniently use the russian s400 as an excuse to stop their meager "anti-Isis" bombing campaign. Not missing a beat there

[Meshugger]

Cross-posting from the other thread, since those two kinda interlap. Tsipras on the EU-Turkey deal:

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Too bad Tsipras bitched out on refusing austerity.

[Wrath of Dagon]

I guess he figured out he couldn't just pull money out of his ass. Anyway I suspect he'll subvert any deal he's made.

[HoonDing]

Turkey annexing Greece would solve a lot of problems.

[Sarex]

Turkey annexing Greece would solve a lot of problems.

 

So would Russia annexing Turkey.

[Meshugger]

Greece is annexed by Turkey which is turn is annexed by Russia. It's like you guys want to resurrect the Byzantine Empire or something.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Nuke Turkey first and you have a deal

[Barothmuk]

Nuke Turkey first and you have a deal

Apparently North Korea is up for it.

[FlintlockJazz]

Lots of calls for invasions and nukings that will kill thousands more innocent people who had nothing to do with anything.  Hope their deaths make your ****-waving worth it guys.

[Meshugger]

Lots of calls for invasions and nukings that will kill thousands more innocent people who had nothing to do with anything.  Hope their deaths make your ****-waving worth it guys.

 

Peace is an ideal, war is fact.

 

Enjoy what you have and what you can and make sure that those around know how to protect themselves.

 

Hopefully space exploration, fusion energy and alike will kick off soon so that humanity can be scattered and not be vulnarable with a total war in one place.

[FlintlockJazz]

 

Lots of calls for invasions and nukings that will kill thousands more innocent people who had nothing to do with anything.  Hope their deaths make your ****-waving worth it guys.

 

Peace is an ideal, war is fact.

 

Enjoy what you have and what you can and make sure that those around know how to protect themselves.

 

Hopefully space exploration, fusion energy and alike will kick off soon so that humanity can be scattered and not be vulnarable with a total war in one place.

 

I'm just more disappointed in the people in this thread gloating over invading countries and stuff.  I expect it from governments, corporations, generals, etc, and I expect people to have bought into their respective propaganda and to be thinking that so-and-so has been attacking them but not this.  Guess I still had some faith in humanity left, that was surprising and foolish of me, corrected that now.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Lots of calls for invasions and nukings that will kill thousands more innocent people who had nothing to do with anything.  Hope their deaths make your ****-waving worth it guys.

 

Peace is an ideal, war is fact.

 

Enjoy what you have and what you can and make sure that those around know how to protect themselves.

 

Hopefully space exploration, fusion energy and alike will kick off soon so that humanity can be scattered and not be vulnarable with a total war in one place.

 

I'm just more disappointed in the people in this thread gloating over invading countries and stuff.  I expect it from governments, corporations, generals, etc, and I expect people to have bought into their respective propaganda and to be thinking that so-and-so has been attacking them but not this.  Guess I still had some faith in humanity left, that was surprising and foolish of me, corrected that now.

 

Just to clear what do you mean by "   gloating over invading countries and stuff "

 

What countries are you referring to if you don't mind sharing 

Edited December 1, 2015 by BruceVC

[Sarex]

Lots of calls for invasions and nukings that will kill thousands more innocent people who had nothing to do with anything.  Hope their deaths make your ****-waving worth it guys.

 

Well in Turkey it's thought that everything that was once a part of the Ottoman Empire is still rightfully theirs, that tells a lot to what their disposition would be in the case of them being left unchecked. Those Innocent people would not lift a finger or say a word in defense of the countries that would be attacked, more than likely they that would cheer.

[BruceVC]

 

Lots of calls for invasions and nukings that will kill thousands more innocent people who had nothing to do with anything.  Hope their deaths make your ****-waving worth it guys.

 

Well in Turkey it's thought that everything that was once a part of the Ottoman Empire is still rightfully theirs, that tells a lot to what their disposition would be in the case of them being left unchecked. Those Innocent people would not lift a finger or say a word in defense of the countries that would be attacked, more than likely they that would cheer.

 

So Turkey wants to restore the Ottoman Empire....huh....never heard that before Sarex, I doubt its true ?

[FlintlockJazz]

 

 

 

Lots of calls for invasions and nukings that will kill thousands more innocent people who had nothing to do with anything.  Hope their deaths make your ****-waving worth it guys.

 

Peace is an ideal, war is fact.

 

Enjoy what you have and what you can and make sure that those around know how to protect themselves.

 

Hopefully space exploration, fusion energy and alike will kick off soon so that humanity can be scattered and not be vulnarable with a total war in one place.

 

I'm just more disappointed in the people in this thread gloating over invading countries and stuff.  I expect it from governments, corporations, generals, etc, and I expect people to have bought into their respective propaganda and to be thinking that so-and-so has been attacking them but not this.  Guess I still had some faith in humanity left, that was surprising and foolish of me, corrected that now.

 

Just to clear what do you mean by "   gloating over invading countries and stuff "

 

What countries are you referring to if you don't mind sharing 

 

Just the tone of the conversation here sometimes, people seem rather keen for other countries to be invaded and talking about how so and so should be nuked, probably on my time of the month or something but it just bothers me more than usual how callously people seem to be when talking about the deaths of thousands.

 

 

Lots of calls for invasions and nukings that will kill thousands more innocent people who had nothing to do with anything.  Hope their deaths make your ****-waving worth it guys.

 

Well in Turkey it's thought that everything that was once a part of the Ottoman Empire is still rightfully theirs, that tells a lot to what their disposition would be in the case of them being left unchecked. Those Innocent people would not lift a finger or say a word in defense of the countries that would be attacked, more than likely they that would cheer.

 

And that depresses me.  That people around the world just seem so happy to see people dead despite never having done anything.  They demonise the people in countries they think should belong to them, you demonise them as all being like that and 'needing to be killed', Russians and Americans demonise each other for political gains that the average member of both won't even benefit from, Christians demonise abortionists, Athiests demonise religions.  And you all use it as an excuse to burn and murder people who you never met and who had no power over the things that happen just as we all have no power over what is really going on here.  And it's not even done with a heavy heart, it's done with glee, happy to burn and kill those heretic children.  Well, sod you humanity, I'm done!

 

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Lots of calls for invasions and nukings that will kill thousands more innocent people who had nothing to do with anything.  Hope their deaths make your ****-waving worth it guys.

 

Peace is an ideal, war is fact.

 

Enjoy what you have and what you can and make sure that those around know how to protect themselves.

 

Hopefully space exploration, fusion energy and alike will kick off soon so that humanity can be scattered and not be vulnarable with a total war in one place.

 

I'm just more disappointed in the people in this thread gloating over invading countries and stuff.  I expect it from governments, corporations, generals, etc, and I expect people to have bought into their respective propaganda and to be thinking that so-and-so has been attacking them but not this.  Guess I still had some faith in humanity left, that was surprising and foolish of me, corrected that now.

 

Just to clear what do you mean by "   gloating over invading countries and stuff "

 

What countries are you referring to if you don't mind sharing 

 

Just the tone of the conversation here sometimes, people seem rather keen for other countries to be invaded and talking about how so and so should be nuked, probably on my time of the month or something but it just bothers me more than usual how callously people seem to be when talking about the deaths of thousands.

 

Okay I see what you mean. Don't take it seriously ...the guys that suggest that  don't really mean it, its more based on support for Russia and a dislike of the West.." Russia should invade Turkey "  ....its completely unrealistic and will never happen

 

You will notice I would never suggest that...except for wiping out ISIS from Iraq and Syria 

[Sarex]

And that depresses me.  That people around the world just seem so happy to see people dead despite never having done anything.  They demonise the people in countries they think should belong to them, you demonise them as all being like that and 'needing to be killed', Russians and Americans demonise each other for political gains that the average member of both won't even benefit from, Christians demonise abortionists, Athiests demonise religions.  And you all use it as an excuse to burn and murder people who you never met and who had no power over the things that happen just as we all have no power over what is really going on here.  And it's not even done with a heavy heart, it's done with glee, happy to burn and kill those heretic children.  Well, sod you humanity, I'm done!

 

Conflict and holding a grudge is human nature. Every person would like to see bad things happen to their enemies instead of themselves, very rarely will you encounter a saint that is willing to sacrifice himself.

 

Democracy is the world you live in and in democracy the people are responsible for what their government does. So yeah, there are no innocent people, inaction it self is crime in the eyes of those who are suffering. Don't like it, well though titties.

[FlintlockJazz]

 

And that depresses me.  That people around the world just seem so happy to see people dead despite never having done anything.  They demonise the people in countries they think should belong to them, you demonise them as all being like that and 'needing to be killed', Russians and Americans demonise each other for political gains that the average member of both won't even benefit from, Christians demonise abortionists, Athiests demonise religions.  And you all use it as an excuse to burn and murder people who you never met and who had no power over the things that happen just as we all have no power over what is really going on here.  And it's not even done with a heavy heart, it's done with glee, happy to burn and kill those heretic children.  Well, sod you humanity, I'm done!

 

Conflict and holding a grudge is human nature. Every person would like to see bad things happen to their enemies instead of themselves, very rarely will you encounter a saint that is willing to sacrifice himself.

 

Democracy is the world you live in and in democracy the people are responsible for what their government does. So yeah, there are no innocent people, inaction it self is crime in the eyes of those who are suffering. Don't like it, well though titties.

 

You keep telling yourself that, it won't make it any more true but if it makes you feel good about yourself then more power to you.

[BruceVC]

 

 

And that depresses me.  That people around the world just seem so happy to see people dead despite never having done anything.  They demonise the people in countries they think should belong to them, you demonise them as all being like that and 'needing to be killed', Russians and Americans demonise each other for political gains that the average member of both won't even benefit from, Christians demonise abortionists, Athiests demonise religions.  And you all use it as an excuse to burn and murder people who you never met and who had no power over the things that happen just as we all have no power over what is really going on here.  And it's not even done with a heavy heart, it's done with glee, happy to burn and kill those heretic children.  Well, sod you humanity, I'm done!

 

Conflict and holding a grudge is human nature. Every person would like to see bad things happen to their enemies instead of themselves, very rarely will you encounter a saint that is willing to sacrifice himself.

 

Democracy is the world you live in and in democracy the people are responsible for what their government does. So yeah, there are no innocent people, inaction it self is crime in the eyes of those who are suffering. Don't like it, well though titties.

 

You keep telling yourself that, it won't make it any more true but if it makes you feel good about yourself then more power to you.

 

Yeah I also don't have that view....its very negative 

[Sarex]

You keep telling yourself that, it won't make it any more true but if it makes you feel good about yourself then more power to you.

 

See if the people your government oppressed care when they come knocking.

[FlintlockJazz]

 

Yeah I also don't have that view....its very negative 

 

 

It's the means by which some people cope with the lack of agency in their life by making themselves believe that those who suffer "had it coming".  I can understand it, but unfortunately those in power benefit the most from it.

 

 

You keep telling yourself that, it won't make it any more true but if it makes you feel good about yourself then more power to you.

 

See if the people your government oppressed care when they come knocking.

 

Most of the people in my country didn't even vote for the current party in power (they had 24% of the vote but got over 50% of the seats), there was an outcry against bombing Syria that ended up preventing the current government from doing so, and were lied to by Mr Blair about Iraq (who most people want arrested for war crimes now), but you are right they won't care when they come knocking just as those your government have oppressed won't care either when they come knocking for you.  The only people who won't suffer from all this is the very people responsible for it all, it'll be the schmucks like you and me that pay the price.

Edited December 1, 2015 by FlintlockJazz

[Sarex]

Most of the people in my country didn't even vote for the current party in power (they had 24% of the vote but got over 50% of the seats), there was an outcry against bombing Syria that ended up preventing the current government from doing so, and were lied to by Mr Blair about Iraq (who most people want arrested for war crimes now), but you are right they won't care when they come knocking just as those your government have oppressed won't care either when they come knocking for you.  The only people who won't suffer from all this is the very people responsible for it all, it'll be the schmucks like you and me that pay the price.

 

Exactly! That is the system we chose and continue to chose it so we are responsible for it. Also don't think that it's only about Iraq. My country also holds a grudge for what you did to us in WW2, 1990 and 1999.

 

In my region, there isn't a single country in which the people would not wish harm upon each other in hopes that it would somehow make it's own situation better.

 

Croatia is getting military equipment (from the West (US I think)) that can be converted to a range where they can launch missiles at us (Serbia) and they are licking their lips about it. Apart from that they are constantly look for a way to trip us up. Albania is looking for any way it can to destabilize the region around it and annex Kosovo to it's borders. Macedonia is fighting a battle with it's own people because it's Muslim population has gotten so high it's influence can now cause a civil war and it's changing one puppet regime for another. Bosnia has Muslim terrorist training camps in it that are operating unchecked and the country it self is falling apart because the system that is in place is unable to do anything about that. Bulgaria is just falling apart economically, because the west won't help and they can't look to the east for fear of economic reprisal from said west. Hungary is pissed at us for letting immigrants through even though they would have probably condemned us as monsters with the rest of the world for not helping them otherwise.

 

I won't even go in to the past conflicts and misdeeds, because that would need and essay to explain and would include the whole of Europe.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Sarex

[Gorth]

So Turkey wants to restore the Ottoman Empire....huh....never heard that before Sarex, I doubt its true ?

Erdogan has been playing the nationalist card a lot when the last election came around here, drumming up support from all the non jihadists to secure election victory. Nothing like starting a new war with the Kurds to get more votes at the ballots. He probably took notes from Bush's election campaigns, the current incumbent rarely get toppled in the middle of a conflict.