Ragequite interviews Josh Sawyer

[JerekKruger]

 

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The interesting thing about the gods of Eora is they do exist. They weren't invented they were created. My guess is a fair number of people would react to this revelation with a shrug of the shoulders. The gods still answer prayers (I think?) and provide guidance on how to live their lives. Some will of course, just as some will react by denying this fact.

 

To take a real world analogue take the fact the science has proved that parts of the bible cannot be literally true. Some people reacted to this by losing their religion, and some flatly deny the science, but the majority of Christians simply adapted and accepted that parts of the bible were not literally true.

 

[FlintlockJazz]

  On 11/21/2015 at 9:48 AM, AndreaColombo said:

 

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^ I agree with you to an extent. If the gods in Eora were openly revealed as a fabrication, there would be a number of considerations that would come into play:

 

• Some people would be indignant and enraged for having been tricked into worshiping fabricated gods. Their everyday lives may remain unchanged, but they would feel like they had been conned and that would make them mad and possibly very bitter and skeptic of anything going forward.
• Other people would be dismayed, especially Priests and the most devoted. A big part of their lives and hopes would suddenly be taken away from them, leaving them distraught. Most would eventually come to terms with that, and of course their everyday life would be impacted; some may or may not become criminals in the wake of their emotional reaction.
• There would also be people who'd just shrug off the news because they weren't particularly devoted to begin with. The game isn't super clear as to whether a punishment awaits the heathen in the afterlife, and whether willful heathen get different treatment from ignorant heathen. That said, a portion of the population would just keep not caring as they didn't care before. Some might downright be happy to be proven right.

Then we have to consider that, fabricated or no, the so-called god exist and hold massive power. What makes them different from non-fabricated gods, in the end? The fact that they are merely "immortal" (quote, unquote because Eothas and the Godhammer) instead of eternal? The fact that they are not divine in nature? Do those two facts really matter, when the fabricated gods have proven their existence and power?

 

And all of the above is taking for granted that you can prove to everyone, beyond any reasonable doubt, that the gods are artificial. The game does not imply that you possess the ability or knowledge to do so. You have the word of Iovara and Thaos, both of whom are dead by the time you resurface from Teir Evron, and that's it. Who would believe you if you spoke? Indeed, the end-game slides make no mention of your spreading the word, for it would be rather foolish with no concrete proof in your hands.

 

But I appreciate this is largely off-topic. It's just been on my mind for a while and Cantousent's post just gave me an excuse to actually write it.

 

 

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One thing I have wondered is just how the Glanfathans would take finding out that their whole belief that they were chosen to protect the ruins by the gods to be utter bollocks and was just Thaos and his ilk using them to keep their secrets.  And how the other nations would take finding this out, whether they would bother respecting the Glanfathan's protection of the ruins or dismiss it as just bollocks and start large-scale plundering of the ruins, especially if they think they were being kept from important knowledge and technology they could use.

 

[anameforobsidian]

  On 11/21/2015 at 7:31 AM, Cantousent said:

I actually prefer turn based combat myself, but I disagree with our Zennish friend in that I thought Wizardry 8 was too much of a slog. Too much combat around every corner.

 

I want a game world that reacts to my actions, but goes into turn based mode for combat. Sure, make it dynamic in that maybe some other critter or faction moves in to take advantage of the vacuum left by the exile or slaughter of the current power brokers, but don't have 'respawns' per se.

 

 

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As far as story goes, there's one tiny thing that's simply unrealistic about Pillars of Eternity, and it's so central to the underlying philosophy that it makes it hard to address, and that's the idea that you 'prove' to people that one ancient culture invented the gods. As irrational as some people might view it, there will always be people who believe in some power greater than themselves that works in a more or less supernatural fashion. Hell, I'm Catholic and I can absolutely assure you that I've met so called 'atheists' who hold mystical or supernatural views that are in excess of the tenets of my personal religion. The idea that someone could 'prove' that the gods didn't exist is simply pie in the sky utopian (or perhaps distopian) crazy talk. I say that even if someone actually had iron-clad proof. Proof is the weakest argument against conviction.

 

 

...And, as I've said, I'm a Catholic. I certainly have no doubt that the gods did *not* exist.

 

 

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 Did they say they proved the Gods didn't exist?  I thought they just kept searching and didn't find anything.

 

However, even if they did say they proved it, remember that this is a universe where they can interact with souls.  They said that they were close to finding the soul of the king's son.  That implies a significantly greater ability to explore the metaphysical, so I'd hardly put proving or disproving the existence of Gods as an impossibility.  This is especially true if they hold a significantly different, far more numinous concept of the divine than Christianity.

 

 

[FlintlockJazz]

  On 11/21/2015 at 4:03 AM, Michael_Galt said:

 

  On 11/20/2015 at 10:41 PM, Teioh_White said:

 

 

What I really want is a game with the Imperial Knights http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Knight. Way cooler- grey Jedi warrior empire, essentially.Then, you could play Jedi, Sith, or an Imperial Knight. I want a game where those factions exist, and maybe you start in the Imperial Knights, but the Jedi and Sith start trying to "recruit" you as you gain power and fame.Once you get past a certain point, if you don't switch alliances, they begin to target you as an enemy

 

Let Imperial Knights use light and dark side without penalties, while Jedi o Sith would have "stronger" respective powers like in Kotor. But, give the Knights some cool higher level abilities the others don't have. You could even have "fallen Jedi", which don't belong to any faction, but pursue their own interests.  If Jedi encounter them, they try to arrest/detain them.  Sith try to recruit or kill them.  Imperial Knights don't care about them one way or another. 

 

 

I do think the Imperial Knights would be a better and more interesting faction to play as.  They both lend to heroic adventures and to questionable behaviour.

[Darkpriest]

Turn Based Master Race

[Veynn]

JFC! I thought Obsidian's goal was to relive the olden days of Infinity Engine days, and now this? Turn-Based? WTF. They want jump into the bandwagon because of the success of DoS:EE? lol

 

AFAIK, people helped fund this game because of the IE games. 

 

If Obsidian switches to Turn Based on their next PoE titles, then this is like Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age 2 all over again. Sigh.

[AndreaColombo]

^ I doubt they would continue this particular series as TB as it would be rather suicidal. It's more likely that they'd consider spin-off games set in the world of Eora that have TB combat.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

  On 11/24/2015 at 1:13 PM, Veynn said:

 

If Obsidian switches to Turn Based on their next PoE titles, then this is like Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age 2 all over again. Sigh.

 

That comparison makes literally zero sense.

[ruzen]

Oh no they are really thinking about turn base combat I guess all this endlessly talk about real time must have bored them.

We might lost the last castle.

[Mazisky]

I like the idea to have a TB based POE product, since i like both genres.

 

Also, at the moment the only high value fantasy TB are 4x genre, or they are not fantasy (X-com 2, pretty hyped for this), so it would be a fresh relase.

[FlintlockJazz]

  On 11/24/2015 at 2:26 PM, ruzen said:

Oh no they are really thinking about turn base combat I guess all this endlessly talk about real time must have bored them.

We might lost the last castle.

He says they might consider it for spin off products set in the same world, not for the main line.

Edited November 25, 2015 by FlintlockJazz

[Stoner]

I was very sceptical about PoE and refused to pick it up for a long time simply because I was hoping for turn-based combat which it wasn't, so I've been playing DoS and thought it has a decent combat mechanics. Boy, I was wrong... the way real-time combat done in PoE is just mindblowing, I LOVE turn-based combat, but PoE already has almost perfect formula and outsanding mechanics, I won't trade anything for it. No turn-based PoE 2 please.

[PrimeJunta]

  On 11/21/2015 at 5:30 AM, Kilburn said:

I was all excited to play arcanum until i got in game. good lord what is up with those graphics?

 

legend of zelda for super nintendo looks better than that...

 

Arcanum has terrible art direction, terrible graphics, and mostly* terrible combat.

 

On the other hand, it's outstanding in 

• Crafting. Technomancy/gunslinging is crazy fun -- hunting for schematics and materials, developing your character + finding ways to "cheat" the system to be able to use them, then reaping the benefits in gameplay
• Quests. There are masses of them. It feels like they never run out. Yet there is none of "collect me 10 of this, 5 of that, 17 of the other." They all feel lively, unique, interesting, and individual. And there are always scads of ways to solve them -- by talking, sneaking, fighting, sending your minions after them, making story choices, and so on and so forth.
• Open-world structure. Once past the starting area obstacle, you can go anywhere and do anything, limited only by your capabilities. Yet there is an overall story arc and the whole thing hangs together. Other than Fallout 1, no other game I've played pulls it off as well.
• Originality and atmosphere in the setting. Steampunk has been done, but "fantasy setting with elves and dwarves and wizards and stuff undergoes an industrial revolution" hasn't, and the game explores this quirky premise in all kinds of interesting ways.

What Arcanum does right, it does so right it hurts. The world deserves a true spiritual successor that builds on that, and avoids the mind-bendingly stupid flaws it has.

 

If Obsidz decides to Kickstart this with Tim Cain at the helm, I at least am so in, and not just at the piddly bronze level the Pillars "BG spiritual successor" schtick did for me.

 

*It is possible to have fun with combat in Arcanum, but only with specific builds, and only by specifically limiting yourself to not use the awful exploits or other flaws the system has.

Edited November 27, 2015 by PrimeJunta

[aluminiumtrioxid]

  On 11/27/2015 at 9:24 AM, PrimeJunta said:

 

  On 11/21/2015 at 5:30 AM, Kilburn said:

I was all excited to play arcanum until i got in game. good lord what is up with those graphics?

 

legend of zelda for super nintendo looks better than that...

 

Arcanum has terrible art direction, terrible graphics, and mostly* terrible combat.

 

On the other hand, it's outstanding in 

• Crafting. Technomancy/gunslinging is crazy fun -- hunting for schematics and materials, developing your character + finding ways to "cheat" the system to be able to use them, then reaping the benefits in gameplay
• Quests. There are masses of them. It feels like they never run out. Yet there is none of "collect me 10 of this, 5 of that, 17 of the other." They all feel lively, unique, interesting, and individual. And there are always scads of ways to solve them -- by talking, sneaking, fighting, sending your minions after them, making story choices, and so on and so forth.
• Open-world structure. Once past the starting area obstacle, you can go anywhere and do anything, limited only by your capabilities. Yet there is an overall story arc and the whole thing hangs together. Other than Fallout 1, no other game I've played pulls it off as well.
• Originality and atmosphere in the setting. Steampunk has been done, but "fantasy setting with elves and dwarves and wizards and stuff undergoes an industrial revolution" hasn't, and the game explores this quirky premise in all kinds of interesting ways.

 

 

Moreover: weak companions and the world is, at its core, Tolkien pastiche WITH STEAM!, but yes, the story and the quests easily push it over into fun territory. Just use a talky build so you can skip most of the godawful combat.

Edited November 27, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Fenixp]

  On 11/27/2015 at 11:03 AM, aluminiumtrioxid said:

Moreover: weak companions and the world is, at its core, Tolkien pastiche WITH STEAM!, but yes, the story and the quests easily push it over into fun territory. Just use a talky build so you can skip most of the godawful combat.

Talky build is not necessary, I played a butt-ugly half-orc lady with no charisma and I've enjoyed the playtrough greatly.

[Sedrefilos]

I tried Arcanum acouple of years ago. Didn't played it when it was out. I couldn't stand it more than two or three hours due to its awful animations and combat. This must have been the worst combat I've ever played in an rpg.

[Fenixp]

Most of the issues get fixed when you switch to turn-based mode. I mean it's still bad, but it's not nearly as bad.

[Sedrefilos]

It tried turn based too. Sucked almost the same
Best turn based combat in an rpg is in D:OS imo. I'd prefere Pillars stay in rtwp model, though. They know how to do it well; they designed the game to work this way.

[Cyseal]

http://www.gamepressure.com/e.asp?ID=389

 

News for the upcoming game probably after WM part 2 release.

 

It's rather interesting about other project instead POE2.

Edited November 27, 2015 by Cyseal

[PrimeJunta]

  On 11/27/2015 at 11:03 AM, aluminiumtrioxid said:

Moreover: weak companions and the world is, at its core, Tolkien pastiche WITH STEAM!, but yes, the story and the quests easily push it over into fun territory. Just use a talky build so you can skip most of the godawful combat.

 

True, the companions are weak. I especially liked the Tolkien pastiche WITH STEAM aspect of it -- they were having a lot of fun playing with the tropes that were already getting a bit stale by then. I mean seriously, in which other game do you get the option to help orcs set up a labor union? And how is that not awesome?

 

I've had a lot of fun with technomancers, including the combat (in TB mode). It remains challenging for quite long, and you have to work hard to stay ahead of the curve. But you really have to look for the sweet spot in it; stray out of it and it gets really dumb and really un-fun really fast.

[Michael_Galt]

  On 11/27/2015 at 9:24 AM, PrimeJunta said:

 

  On 11/21/2015 at 5:30 AM, Kilburn said:

I was all excited to play arcanum until i got in game. good lord what is up with those graphics?

 

legend of zelda for super nintendo looks better than that...

 

Arcanum has terrible art direction, terrible graphics, and mostly* terrible combat.

 

On the other hand, it's outstanding in 

• Crafting. Technomancy/gunslinging is crazy fun -- hunting for schematics and materials, developing your character + finding ways to "cheat" the system to be able to use them, then reaping the benefits in gameplay
• Quests. There are masses of them. It feels like they never run out. Yet there is none of "collect me 10 of this, 5 of that, 17 of the other." They all feel lively, unique, interesting, and individual. And there are always scads of ways to solve them -- by talking, sneaking, fighting, sending your minions after them, making story choices, and so on and so forth.
• Open-world structure. Once past the starting area obstacle, you can go anywhere and do anything, limited only by your capabilities. Yet there is an overall story arc and the whole thing hangs together. Other than Fallout 1, no other game I've played pulls it off as well.
• Originality and atmosphere in the setting. Steampunk has been done, but "fantasy setting with elves and dwarves and wizards and stuff undergoes an industrial revolution" hasn't, and the game explores this quirky premise in all kinds of interesting ways.

What Arcanum does right, it does so right it hurts. The world deserves a true spiritual successor that builds on that, and avoids the mind-bendingly stupid flaws it has.

 

If Obsidz decides to Kickstart this with Tim Cain at the helm, I at least am so in, and not just at the piddly bronze level the Pillars "BG spiritual successor" schtick did for me.

 

*It is possible to have fun with combat in Arcanum, but only with specific builds, and only by specifically limiting yourself to not use the awful exploits or other flaws the system has.

 

 

100% in agreement with everthing you wrote.  Additionally, I agree with most of the complaints other people had: graphics, combat, companions.

 

The reality is, I almost didn't play Arcanum because of the graphics- I pretty much hate them.  Just too cartoony, and generally not very appealing.  That being said, I ultimately came to "forgive" them, because I accepted that I didn't care much for them, but they did what was necessary- let me understand the environment, and see things.  While they aren't great, they aren't terrible either, once you get used to them- they do what is necessary. 

 

The combat?  Trying on anything besides turn-based is practically an exercise in frustration.  Unless you just have some hulking melee fighter, it is almost certainly going to result in failure.  The combat is WAY too fast, becoming a chaos.  With turn-based, it is a bit boring, but, ultimately, very manageable. 

 

The companions.  Well, that was a missed opportunity.  They all actually have some interesting storylines, but, the real problem is that they become basically mute after they have joined your party, with only a few points in the storyline that they say anything at all. 

 

So, WHY would I want Arcanum 2.0???  To keep all the good stuff, and fix the bad stuff.  Imagine Arcanum with POE graphics...  That would be tremendous.  I love the POE graphics.  The combat?   Honestly, I think it would be best if it got converted solely to turn-based, like Fallout.  Add a VATS-like system, and done!  The companions?  Make them interact more with each other, have more talkling points in the story- done.  You can have companions that AREN'T talkative, but when they finally do have something to say, it is either really funny, really profound, or just straight crazy.  That way, you don't need to write a mountain of dialogue for every companion, you just write it well. 

 

Also, I am EXTREMELY hesitantly happy that Obsidian does indeed have something else in the pipeline.  That being said, I can't really celebrate until we have a better idea of what it is, because it could be another SouthPark game, for all we know.  And, I do agreet that it is best to wait until POE is "done" before announcing it- best not to take aways from their first flagship IP.