Created account to say: (a word or two about camping supplies)

[Electrogasms]

** Very minorly spoilerish**

 

Thanks!

 

OOPS! I chose to explore

the weird Pit on lvl 2

of the Endless Path because it seemed like the way down to level 3.

 

4 hours later, out of "camping" gear, sure that makes sense... I'm carrying 400 wooden shields and not 1 of them is f***ing flamable. Sorry, this game is super hard core realistic and you need firewood made from trees, not wood from other things.

 

Welp, guess I console command cheat it, eliminating the achievement progress or quit. 

 

Wait... what? I can start over and redo all that content? Super!

 

Can I roll all the same toons? So fun, this time I'll specialize in making camping equipment!

 

Cant EDIT: just edited the title and put in spoiler tags just in case.

[Cantousent]

I think camping gear entails more than wood, and I'm not sure you'd want to cook your food over heavily lacquered shield wood. You'd also be too tired to cook having exhausted yourself trying to get the shield wood in a condition to burn. :Cant's crooked grin icon: Seriously, though, you're not the only one who finds the camping gear aspect highly irritating. We'll put you in the 'not for it' column. No matter what, thanks for signing up for the boards, man! Stick around, grab a burger and beverage of your choice and enjoy the fun.

[Ink Blot]

Yeah, it's rather... odd, shall we say, that you can fill your stash with literally tons of gear, but you can't put extra camping gear in there. Nope. You can only carry a specific amount, despite the infinite stash space.

[MunoValente]

There is a stairwell on the level where the pit takes you that directly exits the dungeon bypassing the other floors, just need to fight your way past a few Xaurips.

[Electrogasms]

I think camping gear entails more than wood, and I'm not sure you'd want to cook your food over heavily lacquered shield wood. You'd also be too tired to cook having exhausted yourself trying to get the shield wood in a condition to burn. :Cant's crooked grin icon: Seriously, though, you're not the only one who finds the camping gear aspect highly irritating. We'll put you in the 'not for it' column. No matter what, thanks for signing up for the boards, man! Stick around, grab a burger and beverage of your choice and enjoy the fun.

 

A decent point; however, if my survivalist monk wasn't smart enough to cook over the coals (long after the chemicals have burned off) then he deserves the nausea that comes with the burnt troll meat. Besides, I was carrying more than enough food, I just didn't have....? I guess I'm not even sure what the camp is missing.

 

It wouldn't be the last time in history someone had to to choose between surviving or destroying precious objects.

[Electrogasms]

There is a stairwell on the level where the pit takes you that directly exits the dungeon bypassing the other floors, just need to fight your way past a few Xaurips.

BTW, I had an old save and found the Master Stair. When I went back to the beginning I found that there is a Master Stair on each level. Thx for the heads up.

[Sedrefilos]

Yeah, it's rather... odd, shall we say, that you can fill your stash with literally tons of gear, but you can't put extra camping gear in there. Nope. You can only carry a specific amount, despite the infinite stash space.

It's called gameplay mechanics and has nothing to do with realism. If you go with the "oh, I can do this but for some reason I can't do that" mentality then you're wiping out all video games ever made and will ever be made.

[Heijoushin]

Haha! Nothing like getting trapped in the Endless Paths without enough camping gear! Happened to me as well on my first play through.

 

It seems frustrating now, but you'll remember it with fondness later;)

[Lord_Mord]

Thanks!

 

You've chosen a mysterious title, to lure people into reading your complaints.

 

Thanks!

 

You added a major spoiler right at the beginning, so that everyone who hasn't played the game yet doesn't have to anymore. That was very thoughtful of you.

 

Thanks!

 

For reminding us that games are not the reality and the rules they impose to us do not neccesarily reflect the ones, reality imposes to us. We wouldn't have realized that without your help.

 

Thanks!

 

For all your stupid nagging and whining about how unfair it is that you are forced to play a game that actually has some challenges. If there where no people like you, they would produce more of that. Wouldn't that be terrible?

 

Wait... what?

 

There are other games out there? Games with candy colored blocks and marbles? With fairies and furry animals that you can feed and that do not try to attack you? Games with orcs and demons that you can rely on being exactly one level below the level you are, so you can easily kill them by repeatedly clicking on them. What am I still doing here?

Edited November 6, 2015 by Lord_Mord

[Gairnulf]

How exactly can you get "trapped" in the endless paths? I thought you can exit the dungeon from any level?

[Serdan]

How exactly can you get "trapped" in the endless paths? I thought you can exit the dungeon from any level?

It's every other level, if I'm not mistaken, but the point stands.

[Ink Blot]

 

It's called gameplay mechanics and has nothing to do with realism. If you go with the "oh, I can do this but for some reason I can't do that" mentality then you're wiping out all video games ever made and will ever be made.

 

I'm not looking for realism. But some internal logic is always nice. If you want to artificially restrict resting, there are better ways to do it, IMO, than giving you an object that you pick up/buy and carry but acts completely different than every other object in the game world.

[archangel979]

 

It's called gameplay mechanics and has nothing to do with realism. If you go with the "oh, I can do this but for some reason I can't do that" mentality then you're wiping out all video games ever made and will ever be made.

I'm not looking for realism. But some internal logic is always nice. If you want to artificially restrict resting, there are better ways to do it, IMO, than giving you an object that you pick up/buy and carry but acts completely different than every other object in the game world.

 

There are more than one such things.

Stash is completely unrealistic, I don't even remember the game even trying to explain it at any moment.

Then not being able to use your local inventory during combat is not realistic, not to mention buffs only being active during combat and many other ****ty decisions like that.

[Amentep]

Wasn't the original idea that you were only going to be able to camp at safe rest spots (available on only some maps) and that was changed because everyone hated the idea, but Obs didn't want to allow rest anywhere because resting anywhere also breaks immersion (Hmmm, troll nest...feeling sleepy...what bad could happen) so they went with an abstraction of the limited rest spots by using the camping gear?

 

Seems kinda like (as many things have with PoE) they're damned if they do and damned if they don't...

[FlintlockJazz]

Wasn't the original idea that you were only going to be able to camp at safe rest spots (available on only some maps) and that was changed because everyone hated the idea, but Obs didn't want to allow rest anywhere because resting anywhere also breaks immersion (Hmmm, troll nest...feeling sleepy...what bad could happen) so they went with an abstraction of the limited rest spots by using the camping gear?

 

Seems kinda like (as many things have with PoE) they're damned if they do and damned if they don't...

Honestly I think they should have just told everyone to shove it and done what they wanted.  I backed them to make the game, not random backers who shouted the loudest, and I wanted to see the game they wanted to design, not some compromised version.  Sure, it might have come out absolutely terrible, but at least it won't have been based on some kneejerk reactionary response to change amongst people who may have ended up liking the original proposed system if they would have just given it a chance.

[Fenixp]

There's some life wisdom in all of this: Don't jump down unknown pits. It makes sense in my head at least.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Fenixp

[Tamerlane]

what

[archangel979]

Wasn't the original idea that you were only going to be able to camp at safe rest spots (available on only some maps) and that was changed because everyone hated the idea, but Obs didn't want to allow rest anywhere because resting anywhere also breaks immersion (Hmmm, troll nest...feeling sleepy...what bad could happen) so they went with an abstraction of the limited rest spots by using the camping gear?

 

Seems kinda like (as many things have with PoE) they're damned if they do and damned if they don't...

I would have prefered this more. This is how pen&paper works, you can rest as much as you want but only in safe places. If you try it anywhere it can go very badly.

 

My guess is that they gave up on this idea because people would keep coming to this spot and camp after each encounter and then complain how game makes them waste time doing this. Just like how some complained how now the game makes them go back to town to rest after they are out of camping supplies because they also rest too often.

 

At least for most people camping supplies will force you to not rest all the time and going back all the way back to an Inn is usually too far so they will not do it while more people would probably go back to that spot on last level of the dungeon to rest freely.

 

They could have also had camping supply and rest spots, that might have been even better.

 

But only true solution for this is to have time gated quests where if you rest too much you fail in some way or quest parameters change, so if you rest more than once, the last fight has more enemies as they arrived as reinforcements or the hostage was killed and you only were able to bring her/his body back for burial and so on.

 

Actually Torment Tides of Numenera will have such a system where resting will advance time and quests/events.

Edited November 6, 2015 by archangel979

[Cantousent]

I like the idea of time progressing during rest, but folks will complain about *that* in Tides because, as Amentep says, devs truly can't win on some issues. Just follow your vision and manage angry and vocal backers.

[Gairnulf]

There's some life wisdom in all of this: Don't jump down unknown pits. It makes sense in my head at least.

Hehe, that's what I thought too, just before I jumped. I thought, what the hell, this is a fantasy RPG. If one is justified jumping into pits, it should be here!

[Fenixp]

Oh sure, I jumped too, I just thought that it seems like a terrible idea and made a save before doing so.

[Amentep]

I thought about jumping and ultimately decided it was a bad idea and didn't. 

[aweigh0101]

i read this thread. i empathize with the OP; brings fond memories of when i imagined fantastical outcomes to game states before finishing it and realizing that nothing ever lives up to what you hope for.

be thanks for your PotD experience: it sounds like it was hella fun!!! dungeon crawling takes HARD WORK

lastly i wish to randomly point out that on potd level 4 of caed nua has a total of 21 Troll enemies, and a TRULY inspiring 34 oozes of various types. Way to go Obsidian! TRULY these paths are ENDLESS indeed. I can only hope their area designers and combat implementers are at this very moment enjoying life and sipping a fine win becasue these heroes are the veneer of dedication.

a single-minded and never ever! questioned desire to stoke the primal and atavistic spark only beginningto embre in the PoE player as he or she descends these ENDLESS paths by posing them with a masterful narrative that is as old as time:  to be or not to be. yes, such a quandary of being, of states, of value creation both internal and external. they achieved this through the incessant and almost draconian repetition of of ENDLESS paths and halls that lead the player through their journey of getting from one circular room where they must duel wits with hideous manifestations of their fears, i.e. actual trolls that exist independantly from them!

wow! inspiring subversion is not often seen like this, my friends. each of these trolls, and be wary for as i mentioned before they are truly ENDLESS in repetition and and also in their approach! each time the hero, ever on his way down these magnificently ENDLESS flights of starways and and cramped corridors that serve both to enhance the spiritual significance of the journey itself; for what is life? the ENDLESS repetition of man's venture from one small room where he bested wits with 5 trolls and thrice as many spores by going to them and engaging in a philosophical debate of a puzzling nature: questions of fire and piercing steel, but would result in a curious outcome to the imaginary observer with every single one of the ENDLESS encounters with these repeating every floor in greater quantities and with even smaller corridors and the hero accepting the inevitable fate that awaits the man who seeks englightment and thus engage every one of the ENDLESS amounts of ENDLESS enemies in ENDLESS corridors and ENDLESS use of kiting.







IMO endless paths are p. boring. too many trash mobs and super lazy design. 10/10 would play poe again.

[Cantousent]

That just confused the hell out of me. I think you're losing your touch.

 

I don't think overall Caed Nua is bad. I enjoyed it quite a bit. However, and I'm not one of the folks who clamors for everything to be 'more like BG2,' I think it fell short of my favorite dungeon in the IE series, which was Durlag's Tower. In fact, while I enjoyed the action better in IWD and PS:T is one or two on my all time favorites list, Durlag's Tower was a masterpiece. There was plenty of action, but the tricks, traps, and puzzles really made it shine. If I replayed BG:TotSC again, it would be specifically for that dungeon.

 

Caed Nua fell short of it. Good solid dungeon, but it just didn't flow as well, wasn't as creepy, and was actually a bit long in my opinion.

 

EDIT: damn it, forgot my main point for posting in the first place. I reread the first post and it doesn't seem to rise to the level of spoilerism. Someone mentioned spoilers in the thread, but I think we've been general enough not to break anyone's ability to play the game fresh. It's simply a reality that, although we try to keep everything spoiler free, things do loosen up in that regard just a wee bit after the game's been out for a while. However, if you see something truly spoilerish, just report it and we'll try to clean it up or move it as needed.

[Fenixp]

So uh... Aweigh... What you're saying is they should have put one of each enemy type on each floor to keep your attention? The floors are supposed to be constructed around a theme and a story. At any rate, you can do a lot with 21 troll enemies. Obsidian didn't sadly, because encounter design was rather poor in most of Pillars (White March helped), still - that alone is not an argument against anything. What made Endless Paths special in my eyes is how the dungeon evolved and changed as you progressed. There was a lot of story told purely trough environment. Could use more puzzles tho.

 

If I replayed BG:TotSC again, it would be specifically for that dungeon.

I might be doing precisely that thing largely for that very reason. I just got Dynaheir (long time from the tower's level requirements) Edited November 6, 2015 by Fenixp