Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens

[Hurlshort]

I'm a bit surprised at the people grumbling about it being episode IV all over again.  That movie came out 38 years ago.  Is it really a problem that they are following the same blueprint?  

[Raithe]

I'm a bit surprised at the people grumbling about it being episode IV all over again.  That movie came out 38 years ago.  Is it really a problem that they are following the same blueprint?  

 

It's not really grumbling over it per se. It's more.. I think if they'd blazed a completely original story it would have made it better than simply a "good but.." sort of film.

I

[Meshugger]

I'm a bit surprised at the people grumbling about it being episode IV all over again.  That movie came out 38 years ago.  Is it really a problem that they are following the same blueprint?  

 

KotOR did the same, but better IMO, while JJ Abrams simply crossed the line with too much of it, again IMO.

 

My bigger gripe was with Rey, does her character have any faults at all? It was just boring.

[Raithe]

And from Abrams..

 

 

“You do hear a little bit of Yoda. You hear Luke yelling out, ‘Nooo!’ from that moment in Empire. And you hear Obi-Wan at the end say, ‘Rey … these are your first steps,’” Abrams says. “Here’s the cool part. We asked Ewan McGregor to come in and do the line. And he was awesome and we were very grateful. He was incredibly sweet and handsome, and all that stuff. Then he rode off on his motorcycle. Literally the coolest voice over actor ever.”

 

Also for those that might have missed it, Daniel Craig was the Storm Trooper in the cell who gets mind tricked into dropping his blaster...

Edited December 20, 2015 by Raithe

[Hurlshort]

 

I'm a bit surprised at the people grumbling about it being episode IV all over again.  That movie came out 38 years ago.  Is it really a problem that they are following the same blueprint?  

 

KotOR did the same, but better IMO, while JJ Abrams simply crossed the line with too much of it, again IMO.

 

My bigger gripe was with Rey, does her character have any faults at all? It was just boring.

 

 

You mean the girl who kept bugging to go back to the desert planet because "she is waiting" for someone?  Yeah, I'd say she has issues.  She wouldn't even take the lightsaber.  Sure, she was less whiny than Luke, but she has the same faults that he did.   

[Guard Dog]

I haven't seen it. Probably won't until the DVD comes out. I remember when Phantom Menace came out everyone loved it at first because it was Star Wars and the first Star Wars in 15 years. It was on the second watching the folks realized it sucked. Is that going to happen on this one? It seems like the initial watch is gushing praise but as people think about what they saw the warts become visible?

[Namutree]

 

 

Well that would explain how she was able to beat Ren so easily (another nonsensical moment in the film).

No, it isn't. 

 

 

Kylo Ren was already severely injured, and thus at a huge disadvantage. Rey didn't "easily" win as she wouldn't have won at all without Finn's help.

 

 

 

 

That excuse doesn't cut it considering how easily Ben force pushes Rey into a tree, only then to forget about his force powers while fighting the untrained Finn in a pure lightsaber duel that conveniently lasts just long enough for Rey to wake up again - but that is a problem that the prequels had too, at times. Compare that to both Vader vs. Luke duels in the original trilogy - in the first Vader actively uses telekinetics to beat Luke and in the second one Luke actively uses the force to hide. *shrug*

 

Sure, I'm perfectly certain that hit by Chewie's bowcaster was what supposed to level the playing field but then it would have been much better if Rey had been disabled long enough by something else.

 

 

 

You know, I've never seen a force user spam force push, and there are plenty of situations where it would've helped (Obi-Wan vs Grievous would be a good example). I'm guessing there is some kind of limit to how much you can use them in a given time.

 

[Drowsy Emperor]

I'm a bit surprised at the people grumbling about it being episode IV all over again.  That movie came out 38 years ago.  Is it really a problem that they are following the same blueprint?  

 

The problem is that EP IV was not only new, but also better for its time than EP VII is today. As light and archetypal as the characters are - young hero, mentor, rogue, atypical princess, iconic bad guy, robot sidekicks, they all served their purpose very well within the film.

 

EP VII copies the blueprint but not particularly well. The bad guy is more hilarious than anything (I never thought I'd find someone more amusingly bad than Christensen), the hero's path to improvement is completely skewered, most characters are pretty undefined - the script is not as tight etc. etc.

 

If they're going to remake something at least do it well. And, well, don't call it a sequel.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Drowsy Emperor

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

 

 

Well that would explain how she was able to beat Ren so easily (another nonsensical moment in the film).

No, it isn't. 

 

 

Kylo Ren was already severely injured, and thus at a huge disadvantage. Rey didn't "easily" win as she wouldn't have won at all without Finn's help.

 

 

 

 

That excuse doesn't cut it considering how easily Ben force pushes Rey into a tree, only then to forget about his force powers while fighting the untrained Finn in a pure lightsaber duel that conveniently lasts just long enough for Rey to wake up again - but that is a problem that the prequels had too, at times. Compare that to both Vader vs. Luke duels in the original trilogy - in the first Vader actively uses telekinetics to beat Luke and in the second one Luke actively uses the force to hide. *shrug*

 

Sure, I'm perfectly certain that hit by Chewie's bowcaster was what supposed to level the playing field but then it would have been much better if Rey had been disabled long enough by something else.

 

 

 

You know, I've never seen a force user spam force push, and there are plenty of situations where it would've helped (Obi-Wan vs Grievous would be a good example). I'm guessing there is some kind of limit to how much you can use them in a given time.

 

 

 

Yes, the limit is called what the screenwriter needs at any given time.

[Leferd]

I haven't seen it. Probably won't until the DVD comes out. I remember when Phantom Menace came out everyone loved it at first because it was Star Wars and the first Star Wars in 15 years. It was on the second watching the folks realized it sucked. Is that going to happen on this one? It seems like the initial watch is gushing praise but as people think about what they saw the warts become visible?

 

No.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Actually yes. Although its bad in a completely different way to the Phantom Menace.

[Calax]

 

I'm a bit surprised at the people grumbling about it being episode IV all over again.  That movie came out 38 years ago.  Is it really a problem that they are following the same blueprint?  

 

The problem is that EP IV was not only new, but also better for its time than EP VII is today. As light and archetypal as the characters are - young hero, mentor, rogue, atypical princess, iconic bad guy, robot sidekicks, they all served their purpose very well within the film.

 

EP VII copies the blueprint but not particularly well. The bad guy is more hilarious than anything (I never thought I'd find someone more amusingly bad than Christensen), the hero's path to improvement is completely skewered, most characters are pretty undefined - the script is not as tight etc. etc.

 

If they're going to remake something at least do it well. And, well, don't call it a sequel.

 

When he popped of the helmet he lost a lot of the menace he had.

 

I think that the biggest issue is that the story wanted to be built around Rey, but they had to figure out how to cram Finn in there, and a few of the other characters returning. It's never good to have your protagonist be the one who can (and does) do everything.

 

Did they ever explain what her stick was for?

[Cyseal]

What is the role of Max von Sydow actually and will he have a major role in ep. VIII?

[Meshugger]

 

 

I'm a bit surprised at the people grumbling about it being episode IV all over again.  That movie came out 38 years ago.  Is it really a problem that they are following the same blueprint?  

 

KotOR did the same, but better IMO, while JJ Abrams simply crossed the line with too much of it, again IMO.

 

My bigger gripe was with Rey, does her character have any faults at all? It was just boring.

 

 

You mean the girl who kept bugging to go back to the desert planet because "she is waiting" for someone?  Yeah, I'd say she has issues.  She wouldn't even take the lightsaber.  Sure, she was less whiny than Luke, but she has the same faults that he did.   

 

 

Maybe i have a higher personal bar for what constitutes as a hero's journey, but those mentioned are pretty much nothing.

She can fight for herself, pilot and repair the Millennium Falcon as good as (if not better than) Han Solo without any training; she can mind trick, escape captivity, learn to use a blaster within seconds; withstand mind tricks and she beats a Sith in lightsaber combat. What's left for her to overcome is just to become more awesome. All of this is just boring and lazy character writing, IMO. Maybe there's more in the sequels, but i have to judge upon what i have seen so far.

 

 

I am not saying that she would have to be exactly like Luke, but at least give me some suspense because i had none.

 

That being said, it's still an ok movie.

Edited December 20, 2015 by Meshugger

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Saw it, thought it was a mediocre transplant of A New Hope with most changes being for the worse and heavy handed mary suing and shipping.

 

Will watch the next one for Rian Johnson though.

[Oerwinde]

What is the role of Max von Sydow actually and will he have a major role in ep. VIII?

He is the McGuffin Bearer. Safe to say he will not have a major role in ep 8.

 

His character actually really bugged me because they talked about him like he was a returning character but he wasn't. I'm wondering if he was originally Wedge but when the actor turned it down they just took out the references to his name.

[Hiro Protagonist]

When he popped of the helmet he lost a lot of the menace he had.

 

This is another thing I didn't like. Too much taking his helmet off.

[Guard Dog]

So the consensus seems to be good but not great?

[Calax]

 

 

 

I'm a bit surprised at the people grumbling about it being episode IV all over again.  That movie came out 38 years ago.  Is it really a problem that they are following the same blueprint?  

 

KotOR did the same, but better IMO, while JJ Abrams simply crossed the line with too much of it, again IMO.

 

My bigger gripe was with Rey, does her character have any faults at all? It was just boring.

 

 

You mean the girl who kept bugging to go back to the desert planet because "she is waiting" for someone?  Yeah, I'd say she has issues.  She wouldn't even take the lightsaber.  Sure, she was less whiny than Luke, but she has the same faults that he did.   

 

 

Maybe i have a higher personal bar for what constitutes as a hero's journey, but those mentioned are pretty much nothing.

She can fight for herself, pilot and repair the Millennium Falcon as good as (if not better than) Han Solo without any training; she can mind trick, escape captivity, learn to use a blaster within seconds; withstand mind tricks and she beats a Sith in lightsaber combat. What's left for her to overcome is just to become more awesome. All of this is just boring and lazy character writing, IMO. Maybe there's more in the sequels, but i have to judge upon what i have seen so far.

 

 

I am not saying that she would have to be exactly like Luke, but at least give me some suspense because i had none.

 

That being said, it's still an ok movie.

 

I honestly would have enjoyed if they roleswapped Luke and Han... so that "Han" was the force sensitive one rather than "Luke"

[HoonDing]

Kylo Ren is like Kick-Ass, but evil.

 

Hilariously inept, first getting shot then barely beating Action Girl.

[Cyseal]

Max von Sydow has probably most inefficient role.  We don't know anything about him before.

 

Saw it, thought it was a mediocre transplant of A New Hope with most changes being for the worse and heavy handed mary suing and shipping.

Will watch the next one for Rian Johnson though.

I watched Looper, the film of his and he's quite story teller and has well shot scenes. I wish he brings core sci-fi elements in SW not just mainstream.

[Drowsy Emperor]

I wonder why the big bad is so poorly done. How did they come up with the idea of calling the ultimate bad guy Snoke, make him look like Gollum with the oversize hologram and all.

 

I mean you can take your pick of the evil Kotor characters and every single one is more fearsome, including granny Kreia. 

[Drowsy Emperor]

Kylo Ren is like Kick-Ass, but evil.

 

Hilariously inept, first getting shot then barely beating Action Girl.

 

Kylo Ren is the black metal obsessed, long haired dude everyone made fun of in high school. 

[Drowsy Emperor]

So the consensus seems to be good but not great?

Worth one watch if you're in the mood and not the most obsessed fan of SW.

[HoonDing]

I keep confusing his name with Calo Nord.