Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens

[Nonek]

I disagree, these scenarios all emphasise how the character should outgrow her, as both tutor, bonded partner and authority figure. When she shows her blind spots, her speciesism for instance and weakness in failing to make use of the Droids, her lack of empathy that reveals various weaknesses in her while she chides you, her inability to snoop on Bao Dur's mind because of the tighter bond that you two bare, and of course her jealous, romantic obsession with the Exile that leaves her betrayed by her own feelings. These are all points where the Exile should be choosing his own path, learning from her, but not in the manner in which she is suggesting.

 

The game does not state this at any point but the sad tale of her life and the indignities she has suffered should point this out to anyone who is paying attention. The Exile should be pursuing his own path, taking heed of all that she says, and all that she does not say. It is demonstrated in almost every cutscene in which you are not present that you should not trust this woman, nor believe her, even graphically with her hood always raised she remains hidden and obscured, just as she means to. Only a fool would follow her advice, and only a fool would fail to take what one can from her.

 

For me she is not an annoying hag but a beautiful and perilous femme fatale, and a refreshing change from the usual squeeing girl child we are flooded with on a day to day basis.

 

Edit: I'm really in fine arguing fettle today.

Edited December 22, 2015 by Nonek

[Blarghagh]

I say that intepretation makes her even more annoying - now she keeps whining at you and she's not even right!

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I think Kreia is a good character because she's an annoying hag who is zealous as hell. Far better than a standard Jedi Master or Sith Lord mentor.

 

Granted the gray path could have used more work(and some mechanical bonuses) and the notion that binary Light/Dark is harming the Force is an interesting counterpoint to Kreia wanting to destroy the Force. But if we're talking about flaws with KOTOR(2) or SW in general we're gonna be here a long time.

[213374U]

This thing bugged me subconsciously during the movie, and the kid who wrote the review was spot on.

Yep. The facepalm is strong with Rey in this regard, and I had exactly the same feeling.

 

However: Pompey was awarded his first triumph at 26, and Alexander had conquered most of the known world before he kicked the bucket at 33. While the bad guys in TFA do look and sound like a bunch of punks trying way too hard, being over 50 isn't necessarily a requirement to hold senior military rank and do it competently.

 

Also, does Harrison Ford have arthritis or something? Bad posture and moves... awkwardly.

[HoonDing]

Haddaway was there by the time I started asking "What is love?".

[Malcador]

http://www.cnet.com/news/vatican-newspaper-says-star-wars-the-force-awakens-not-evil-enough/

 

Vatican paper says the evil needed to be more Evil.

[FlintlockJazz]

 

 

 

Also, does Harrison Ford have arthritis or something? Bad posture and moves... awkwardly.

 

Didn't he break his leg while/just before filming?  I recall something about a garage door landing on it.  He's probably walking around in a cast (seriously, they often have actors doing that especially in action films where the actor often gets hurt like Jackie Chan).

[majestic]

Haddaway was there by the time I started asking "What is love?".

 

Baby don't hurt me!

[Hurlshort]

Harrison Ford crashed his airplane recently too.  But he's also 73, we should all hope to be that limber at his age.

[Drowsy Emperor]

http://www.cnet.com/news/vatican-newspaper-says-star-wars-the-force-awakens-not-evil-enough/

 

Vatican paper says the evil needed to be more Evil.

 

The Vatican should know 

[Oerwinde]

Max Landis compared Rey to John Cena because she constantly succeeds against all odds and its boring. I like this comparison (though... rule of cool so I didn't mind her constant success because it always resulted in fun scenes)

Edited December 23, 2015 by Oerwinde

[majestic]

RLM has a Half in the Bag episode about TFA:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvsiJppCdmk

 

I guess Mike got a bit too hyped about this totally not being like the prequels. Pretty much like I was when I left the theatre and before things settled in (and before a second watch, anyway). Still, it's quite fun to watch.

[Blarghagh]

Saw it again. You know, I kinda get people who think Rey terrible character but right now I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. I'm pretty sure she's got some kind of secret background or memory tampering to justify it:

 

The fact that Kylo Ren taunts her about her loneliness and how she imagines a green island in a vast ocean (guess who we find in just such a place), and how Luke's lightsaber calls to her and triggers what could be visions or could be memories. The fact that they recorded Ewan McGregor calling her name... and that everyone seems to realize she's important despite her supposedly being a nobody. Kylo Ren doesn't just say she's strong in the Force, he specifically says that she's much stronger in the Force than she knows. The fact we have no idea who dumped her on Jakku and why, and that she uses a Jedi mind-trick despite nobody telling her that's even possible - how did she even know how to do that?

 

She's got to have some serious built-in connection to this stuff. So thus far I'm perfectly willing to buy it for now - provided they explain it sufficiently in the upcoming sequels. If they don't, then she'll be a terrible character who can do everything right despite having no reason to. Right now I'm just not feeling that way.

 

But maybe that's because I have a tiny crush on Daisy Ridley.

[majestic]

But maybe that's because I have a tiny crush on Daisy Ridley.

 

Well, that's okay. I watched the entire run of Andromeda even though the show went from campy good fun to a ridiculous space-borne spinoff of Hercules for no other reason than to ogle Lexa Doig in a leather costume every week.

 

The flashback we got when she touched the conveniently placed original lightsaber of Anakin showed her being brought to Jakku while she was pretty young. Not that there isn't sufficient precedence for Jedi training to begin very early that would not really account for her lightsaber prowess (and no, a quarterstaff is not the same proficiency as a blade, no matter how much streamlining D&D got in recent years ).

[Rostere]

The fact that Kylo Ren taunts her about her loneliness and how she imagines a green island in a vast ocean (guess who we find in just such a place), and how Luke's lightsaber calls to her and triggers what could be visions or could be memories. The fact that they recorded Ewan McGregor calling her name... and that everyone seems to realize she's important despite her supposedly being a nobody. Kylo Ren doesn't just say she's strong in the Force, he specifically says that she's much stronger in the Force than she knows. The fact we have no idea who dumped her on Jakku and why, and that she uses a Jedi mind-trick despite nobody telling her that's even possible - how did she even know how to do that?

 

She's got to have some serious built-in connection to this stuff. So thus far I'm perfectly willing to buy it for now - provided they explain it sufficiently in the upcoming sequels. If they don't, then she'll be a terrible character who can do everything right despite having no reason to. Right now I'm just not feeling that way.

 

I thought this was obvious.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Having a secret past doesn't preclude her from being interesting in the 2 hours we've already seen. But she isn't really. There's no characterization whatsoever, all she does is move from one set piece to another remaining essentially unchanged, without any background - and without anyone actually asking her anything of importance.

 

And break all the established rules of the SW universe, by being able to use the force and lightsaber untrained. I'm sure they'll find a semi-plausible explanation in the next film, but its a far cry from Luke in the first film. He may be a walking peasant-to-hero archetype but at least its all credible and well executed in the context of the film. 

[majestic]

And break all the established rules of the SW universe, by being able to use the force and lightsaber untrained. I'm sure they'll find a semi-plausible explanation in the next film, but its a far cry from Luke in the first film. He may be a walking peasant-to-hero archetype but at least its all credible and well executed in the context of the film. 

 

In terms of breaking established rules the one thing that bothered me most was Han's hyperspace jump behind the Starkiller base shields. Good grief why did they drop a ground team on Endor with a stolen shuttle in Return of the Jedi if they could have just jumped right on top of the shield generator, or just jumped straight to the entrance of the second Death Star's superstructure?

[213374U]

And break all the established rules of the SW universe, by being able to use the force and lightsaber untrained. I'm sure they'll find a semi-plausible explanation in the next film, but its a far cry from Luke in the first film. He may be a walking peasant-to-hero archetype but at least its all credible and well executed in the context of the film. 

 

"In the context of the film" being key here. In 1977 Lucas wasn't sure the movie wouldn't be a total flop precluding any sequels so he needed to make it a self-contained story. Abrams had the benefit of knowing he'd blow the box office to kingdom come no matter how badly he did so sequels are *guaranteed*, giving him more leeway to leave stuff unexplained (and arguably nonsensical in the context of the film). Character development arcs are going to be paced differently simply because of that. Better, worse? Hard to say until we have a complete picture.

 

I already agreed with you regarding Rey, but I think it's possible they can resolve these issues in retrospect, as TN said. The possible execution is a whole 'nother matter...

Edited December 24, 2015 by 213374U

[Drowsy Emperor]

 

And break all the established rules of the SW universe, by being able to use the force and lightsaber untrained. I'm sure they'll find a semi-plausible explanation in the next film, but its a far cry from Luke in the first film. He may be a walking peasant-to-hero archetype but at least its all credible and well executed in the context of the film. 

 

In terms of breaking established rules the one thing that bothered me most was Han's hyperspace jump behind the Starkiller base shields. Good grief why did they drop a ground team on Endor with a stolen shuttle in Return of the Jedi if they could have just jumped right on top of the shield generator, or just jumped straight to the entrance of the second Death Star's superstructure?

 

 

The film is full of plot holes and nonsense like that. Most movies are, but Abrams really doesn't care about that sort of thing. All he wants is for people to walk away with the impression that they've seen something great and the constant action is there to divert their attention from the many inconsistencies. Make the death star bigger, make an in joke about it being the same thing only ten times as large and presto - you're excused for making the third film about blowing up a death star :D 

[Blarghagh]

I think he's excused more on the fact that movies that didn't break the rules were significantly worse. Abrams was lucky that Lucas spent the last two decades lowering expectations.

[Fighter]

I'm not sure I want Rey's character to be explained with some "oh she has just forgotten". I would rather they just do better in the sequel given that it's the perfect opportunity because the next arc should be about training where all the character strengths and flaws come out.

 

I don't think the character is "terrible" in the context of a movie where everything is done with broad strokes. But it's definitely a noticeable flaw in the writing.

 

I also don't want this to end up like Lost. I hope JJ knows what all the flashbacks and visions mean.

[Elerond]

They have one big benefit when they make their characters and plot devices and such things. As there is no quite lot of people that make and produce different media around the film, which give them ability explain everything in the movies without needing to explain them in the movies themselves. So they can use as much of rule of cool they want and then use other media to explain why those things we okey in Star Wars universe and then see how millions and millions of their fans explain things to people through social media. So they don't need and they don't rely on movies alone to explain things that happen in Star Wars universe, but instead they will force people to consume Star Wars in multitude of media if they want to get full picture of things and fans rejoice lot.

[Drowsy Emperor]

I actually watched the Phantom Menace yesterday to freshen up my impression - and while it is definitely worse overall than Force Awakens, it still has more SW charm than what Abrams has done. And a better story (which doesn't mean the story is actually good). Its just that PM's flaws are incredibly grating and ruin the experience while FA's are better covered up. And, well, based on an already functional formula - whereas PM does something new.

 

*shrug*

[Elerond]

"I also don't want this to end up like Lost. I hope JJ knows what all the flashbacks and visions mean"

 

JJ don't direct next movie so I don't think it is up to him how they will explain Rey's past.

[Drowsy Emperor]

They have one big benefit when they make their characters and plot devices and such things. As there is no quite lot of people that make and produce different media around the film, which give them ability explain everything in the movies without needing to explain them in the movies themselves. So they can use as much of rule of cool they want and then use other media to explain why those things we okey in Star Wars universe and then see how millions and millions of their fans explain things to people through social media. So they don't need and they don't rely on movies alone to explain things that happen in Star Wars universe, but instead they will force people to consume Star Wars in multitude of media if they want to get full picture of things and fans rejoice lot.

 

There's a lot of that today and I think that's a garbage approach to be honest. A film should be able to stand on its own two legs through and through.