Idiot's Guide to RTwP?

[Skirge01]

I'm having trouble adjusting my play style from turn-based to RTwP.  I feel like an idiot (hence the title) even asking for help, so I've done a bunch of searching, but have come up empty.  I'm hoping the people around here who love this style of combat can provide some tips on how to approach a game like PoE.  I've played this style of game before (BG & BG2), but never had much success with the combat aspect.  To me, everything just happens WAY too fast and my party is dead in 30 seconds for some fights.  I can coast through most fights by just letting the AI do its thing and hoping for the best.  But, that's really not all that fun and those 30 second fights are extremely frustrating; to the point of getting seriously pissed off and wanting to quit the game entirely.

 

So, would the experienced RTwP players care to provide some tips/guides for someone like me, in order for me to begin playing PoE the "right" way and actually enjoy the combat style you seem to love so much?  If you've played both TB and RTwP and can explain how I need to approach this differently, that would be awesome!

[Silent Winter]

First up - use the auto-pause settings (enemy sighted, skill-use complete (not sure of the name) character death etc) - this way it'll auto-pause when something happens that needs more input.

Second - have one thumb over space-bar (pause)  at all times to pause if things go south.

[it's more 'pause with real-time' for me rather than 'real-time with pause' ]

 

It's not all that far removed from TB - it's just that actions get resolved concurrently, so pausing a bit more often (especially when you're getting used to it) and assessing the battlefield is a good tip.

[KDubya]

Also set it to go into slow mode when in combat. That plus the auto pause will help you maintain control. And get used to hitting space bar

[AndreaColombo]

You can even set the game to auto-pause every X seconds, thus de facto simulating a turn-based combat scenario (it's not really going to be turn based, but it will give you time to evaluate your moves at regular intervals.)

[pi2repsion]

If you are used to turn based, the easiest approach would be to use the game options to set the game to autopause on all the different events for autopausing in combat and to set the speed to half speed when you enter combat. It won't autopause for people autoattacking, but damn near everything else.

 

When you've got the hang of this, you can start turning off autopausing for some things selectively if you think it is pausing too often.

 

 

Alternatively, you can set the game to autopause with fixed periods, but I cannot recommend this. Autopausing when something important changes (e.g. somebody used an ability and doesn't have another queued, what should he do now?) is much more practical.

[Oralaina]

I really prefer real TB games (I think....) but by now I'm so used to RT combat in MMOs that this conglomerate works okay for me.  In fact, I did set it up with all the available pause options to begin with, but very shortly discovered that I had to stop that back to just a few:  enemy sighted; combat start; party member death (which also happens on things like spawned blights etc. from the druid, which I'd rather do without but guess there's no way to be that picky....) plus judicious use of the space bar.  I hated the autopause on fixed interval, personally - it was, for me, counterintuitive.

 

This is the first game of this type I've played in.... well, a very long time.  I played TES games (Arena, Morrowind, Oblivion) after the TB games from SSI et al.  Started playing WoW while waiting for Skyrim, and while I did play Skyrim (and still do), I spent 8 years in WoW, and have spent another 1.5 years with Rift.  So this game is "new" to me from that angle too.

[Stepout]

These two things helped me a lot when I first started playing:

 

1.  http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=414713755&insideModal=1

 

2.  youtube guide  (take anything that's said in older vids about attributes and build guides with a grain of salt as things change with patches, but at some point in that video he goes through how to approach combat and I found it useful).

 

 

The only auto-puase I have set is when combat first starts (I belive that is the default).  As you get better you'll know when to manually pause with the space bar to issue new commands.  

Edited September 27, 2015 by Stepout

[gkathellar]

I'll third (fourth?) the suggestion for extensive use of auto-pause. Like you, I find these games much too fiddly to react in to without pausing constantly; I'm only able to play effectively by figuring out a group of auto-pause settings that work for me. I do not suggest using the "auto-pause every X" seconds, however - time scales in PoE vary a lot, so it ends up being kind of gawky in practice.

[Tigranes]

Pause. A lot. You can pause literally every half second, if you want to. Set the game to play out on slow mode. 

 

Mechanically speaking, everybody is acting in 'turns', it's just that everybody's turns happen at different speeds and you can always interrupt their 'turn' by making them move away. 

 

Make sure you have the tooltips turned on so everybody has the bar above their head showing their 'turn' clock (the white bar that winds down), which is an easy way to keep track of those 'turns'. 

 

Playing with less party members (3-4) and, if necessary, on an easier difficulty is one option if ultimately it is still too messy for you. 

[Skirge01]

Thanks for all the replies so far!  I'm getting just the tiniest hint that I should be pausing more.    I will definitely be turning on more of the autopause options, since I only had enemy sighted and weapon ineffective turned on.  An especially huge thank you to Stepout for that Steam thread, which explained quite a bit I was either missing or misunderstood.  I haven't watched the video yet, but will definitely be doing so before my next PoE session.

 

While I'm getting used to this, should I completely turn off the AI for my party?  I'm thinking that if it's on, they're going to do things I might not want them to and screw up whatever tactics I'm attempting to implement.

 

If anyone has additional combat tactics I should keep in mind, please share.

[Tigranes]

If you like turn based games, I'm going to presume you like tactical combat. To me party AI is anathema to fun, because I enjoy micromanaging and I enjoy having full tactical control. So it depends on you.

 

If you're confused as to what is going on and why things are happening, that might be a reason to turn off party AI.  

[AndreaColombo]

Personally, I find party A.I. very handy for dealing with trash mobs. Sometimes I don't feel like putting that much effort into a minor fight that I could win with mindless auto-attacks; party A.I. can win those for me while I enjoy the visuals of spells being cast and abilities being used.

 

However, it can definitely screw you up in important or otherwise more challenging fights. I learned the hard way that leaving party A.I. on even on half of my party during a dragon fight, for example, is a surefire way to die and reload.

Edited September 27, 2015 by AndreaColombo

[Skirge01]

If you like turn based games, I'm going to presume you like tactical combat. To me party AI is anathema to fun, because I enjoy micromanaging and I enjoy having full tactical control. So it depends on you.

 

If you're confused as to what is going on and why things are happening, that might be a reason to turn off party AI.  

 

Exactly right!  I loved my 15-20 minute battles in Wasteland 2.  Always ticked me off when I'd step just a little too close to someone and get spotted before I was able to set up my entire team.  The scouting visuals in PoE make that mistake just about impossible, but--so far, at least--I've not really been able to position my party to anywhere near the level I was able in W2.  Perhaps the new ideas brought up here will help with that, however.

 

Personally, I find party A.I. very handy for dealing with trash mobs. Sometimes I don't feel like putting that much effort into a minor fight that I could win with mindless auto-attacks; party A.I. can win those for me while I enjoy the visuals of spells being cast and abilities being used.

 

However, it can definitely screw you up in important or otherwise more challenging fights. I learned the hard way that leaving party A.I. on even on half of my party during a dragon fight, for example, is a surefire way to die and reload.

 

Yeah, it sounds like turning it off for now might be a good idea.  But, you bring up a good point for some of the more mundane battles... just let them wipe them out real quick.  Who knows, though?  Once I get the hang of RTwP, I might find I like even the mundane battles.  Here's to hoping! 

[Stepout]

Yeah, as far as the party AI goes it all depends on how much you want to micro them.  As you play more you'll get a handle on how you want to approach it.  I generally set them to defensive and leave per-rest abilities un-checked as I enjoy a good amount of micro.

 

The trouble with turning the party AI off is that sometimes you'll lose track of a party member and then you'll notice them just standing there staring at butterflies while the chaos ensues.

[Flix]

Good luck getting the hang of it OP.  I'm going in the opposite direction, trying (and failing) to get some enjoyment out of turn-based combat so I can play Divinity Original Sin and Torment Tides of Numenera.

[Skirge01]

Good luck getting the hang of it OP.  I'm going in the opposite direction, trying (and failing) to get some enjoyment out of turn-based combat so I can play Divinity Original Sin and Torment Tides of Numenera.

 

I'm about to try another PoE session with these new suggestions, so wish me luck!  I'd be happy to provide some tips for TB combat, but it's really game-specific.  I could certainly help out with Wasteland 2, but not Divinity or Torment (obviously, since it's not out yet).

[Skirge01]

I've played quite a bit more since my last reply and I feel I've gotten the hang of a lot of this.  Again, thanks to everyone who replied!  I've even turned off a few auto-pause options, including some which really made no sense as to why anyone would want to pause after the occurrence.  I've gone back to an earlier battle's saved game (which is the one that frustrated me and triggered this thread) with this new knowledge and still had significant difficulty.  Perhaps my party simply wasn't ready for it yet.  At least I can say I'm enjoying the RTwP now.

 

An issue I'm still having is that, other than fighting or casting a spell, you don't know if your character is going to be able to accomplish what you want them to without being seriously hurt or killed.  For that reason, I've found that scrolls and potions seem to be useless to everyone except your spellcasters, who you keep in the back, away from the melee.  Is there really a way for a fighter engaged in a swordfight to use a scroll or down a potion without taking more damage than it's worth?  Is there some tactic I'm missing here?  Setting a trap (i.e. actual snare; not just an ambush) is similarly troublesome for me.  How/where do you guys put those into use effectively?

[AndreaColombo]

Only potions I give my frontliners are healing potions and Deleterious Alacrity of Motion. The latter I have them sip as soon as the fight ensues, while the enemy draws near. It's a big DPS booster.

 

Scrolls I generally leave to casters (and I generally mostly use Scroll of Valor and Scroll of Defense.)

[hilfazer]

There are two auto pause options i have turned on (among others):

1. Enemy spotted - it allows you to enter sneak mode an prepare

2. Combat started - it allows you to use combat-only spells ASAP

 

It may take some time before you get used to having them both on, but i find it worth it.

[luzarius]

I wish this game was turn based.

[KDubya]

I wish this game was turn based.

Turn based would ruin most of the combat mechanics. no more armor penalties, speed boosters, nothing like that would work with turn based. You'd have Fallout with action points or Baldurs Gate and all the imbalances that 'd come with it. I like a balanced dual wield that is faster but not double the attacks and double damage for a no brainer choice like BG had.

[Skirge01]

 

I wish this game was turn based.

Turn based would ruin most of the combat mechanics. no more armor penalties, speed boosters, nothing like that would work with turn based. You'd have Fallout with action points or Baldurs Gate and all the imbalances that 'd come with it. I like a balanced dual wield that is faster but not double the attacks and double damage for a no brainer choice like BG had.

 

 

While I also wish it was TB (and still prefer it), now that I'm getting used to RTwP, I'm enjoying the game the way the designers intended.  I don't want this thread to get OT and turn into a TB vs RTwP battle, but I will say that I believe any TB game could probably be made as RTwP and vice versa.  It's up to the designers to get it right and I trust the designers I buy my games from.

[Ymarsakar]

I'm having trouble adjusting my play style from turn-based to RTwP.  I feel like an idiot (hence the title) even asking for help, so I've done a bunch of searching, but have come up empty.  I'm hoping the people around here who love this style of combat can provide some tips on how to approach a game like PoE.  I've played this style of game before (BG & BG2), but never had much success with the combat aspect.  To me, everything just happens WAY too fast and my party is dead in 30 seconds for some fights.  I can coast through most fights by just letting the AI do its thing and hoping for the best.  But, that's really not all that fun and those 30 second fights are extremely frustrating; to the point of getting seriously pissed off and wanting to quit the game entirely.

 

So, would the experienced RTwP players care to provide some tips/guides for someone like me, in order for me to begin playing PoE the "right" way and actually enjoy the combat style you seem to love so much?  If you've played both TB and RTwP and can explain how I need to approach this differently, that would be awesome!

 

Turn on slow mode for every battle.

 

You're probably trying to micro too many things on screen at once. Stick to one character, ignore everybody else, and watch the combat log to see what is going on. Have fights with civilians and guards, 1 on 1, to see how each class works.

 

Tides of Numenera and Xcom 2-3 (easy mode) is also turn based.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Ymarsakar

[daver]

Good luck getting the hang of it OP.  I'm going in the opposite direction, trying (and failing) to get some enjoyment out of turn-based combat so I can play Divinity Original Sin and Torment Tides of Numenera.

Divinity Origninal Sin had the best RTwP combat I've ever played.  I'm not degrading POE's combat at all, I love it too, but D:0S was just awesome.  Cast a grease spell and hit it with a fire ball and the entire area covered in grease catches on fire.  Cast a chain lightning spell with everyone standing in water, and electrocute everyone (including your party).  The Enhanced Edition of D:OS is out 10/27 and free to all PC owners of the original game.  Many changes, including full voice overs.  If you haven't played it yet, wait a couple weeks for the EE.

[Tigranes]

D:OS was turn based, not RTwP. It is hilariously fun, yes.