Level 12 Offensive skill help.

[Torm51]

What would be more advantages for my Paladin.  Hes a tank pretty much but is capable offensively thanks to good Alpha Strikes from FoD and great  back up 2handed weapon.  Currently using the Grey Sleeper (I souldbound it to myself by mistake lol and just finished the quest).  Whats better Weapon Focus Adventurer or Vulnerable Attack?  I was thinking Vulnerable because my Paladin only has 12 Might.  Maybe he gets better use out of the -10 DR total he will be getting?  I know Arquebus an Arbalest have better top end but I like keeping engagements as the AI tends to stick to him more.

[AndreaColombo]

Yeh, Vulnerable would get you more bang for your buck; there are many other ways to boost Accuracy but not so many to get DR Bypass.

[dukefx]

I'd say that pretty much depends on the difficulty you are playing on and your DEX/PER.

[Torm51]

PoTD, Dex and Per are both base at 10.  Its a Frontline support Paladin but I bring out my 2hander a lot to help finish bad guys or goad the AI into attacking me since I have less deflection.

[Boeroer]

Whatever you do - be sure to take Immolation and Scion of Flame to turn your tanky paladin into a real good damage dealer who also heals while he burns.

Besides that I would take the weapon focus of the ranged weapon you're using for your FoD alpha strike - the sleeper will also work with that focus, since it's a soulbound weapon. So you will tune up both weapons with one Talent point - ranged and sleeper.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Boeroer

[Torm51]

Soulbound weapons count for any focus regardless of weapon type?

[hilfazer]

Yes.

[Torm51]

Sweet.  I will def be taking Scion of Flame at 14.

[dukefx]

PoTD, Dex and Per are both base at 10.  Its a Frontline support Paladin but I bring out my 2hander a lot to help finish bad guys or goad the AI into attacking me since I have less deflection.

Them I'd def. go with Accuracy. Paladin's base is 20 and you have low PER, on PotD opponents have really high deflection. Not to mention two handers are slow enough already, combine that with heavy armor, your low DEX and the speed penalty of VA and you'll hit (I mean graze) once every blue moon.

[Torm51]

 

PoTD, Dex and Per are both base at 10.  Its a Frontline support Paladin but I bring out my 2hander a lot to help finish bad guys or goad the AI into attacking me since I have less deflection.

Them I'd def. go with Accuracy. Paladin's base is 20 and you have low PER, on PotD opponents have really high deflection. Not to mention two handers are slow enough already, combine that with heavy armor, your low DEX and the speed penalty of VA and you'll hit (I mean graze) once every blue moon.

 

Valid point but I Cant totally agree there.  I realize Paladin has crap base ACC but I do have Zealous Focus AND a Superior Weapon.  My accuracy is only 6 behind Eder.  with the FoD +20 ACC I don't miss graze much if ever with it.  Its a Hit or a Crit.  I am usually using a shield so I only really use the 2hander to help burst an opponent or when I am not being heavily targeted.  The VA penalty isn't as harsh on Plate users as they already have the % 50 recover time. 

Edited September 23, 2015 by Torm51

[Vorad]

After playing around a lot after this new patch/expansion with pallie I came to the conclusion they're better off as full defensive BUT with high might. If you make a Moon Good-like then you get a really nice boost to both racial aoe heal and your 13th lvl aoe damage ability through might. So I went max intellect, resolve, might, average constitution and I ditched the rest. I opted for measured restraint(rapier with 1 extra engage slot) which has a great accuracy bonus and is fast meaning the low perception and dex are somehow balanced + pallie buckler from guilded vale for a nice buff for my party and the aoe is really nice due to max intellect(goodlike + vailian) and she's doing quite a good at holding the line and when at lvl 13/14 she activates the aoe it's pretty much gg.

[Boeroer]

At lvl 13 you will be standing in the fray with your shield and turn on immolation anyways. Your DEX isn't important then.

[Torm51]

At lvl 13 you will be standing in the fray with your shield and turn on immolation anyways. Your DEX isn't important then.

Well for Reflex saves it is.  Granted when you get Weapon and Shield style + Faith and Conviction it helps.  If you dump dex and per or one or the other it will be your weakest defense for sure.  Not saying its game changing but you will probably get CCed a good amount more.  Being CCed as a frontliner is definitely bad.

[hilfazer]

Pally's base acc is 25.

[Vorad]

 

At lvl 13 you will be standing in the fray with your shield and turn on immolation anyways. Your DEX isn't important then.

Well for Reflex saves it is.  Granted when you get Weapon and Shield style + Faith and Conviction it helps.  If you dump dex and per or one or the other it will be your weakest defense for sure.  Not saying its game changing but you will probably get CCed a good amount more.  Being CCed as a frontliner is definitely bad.

 

Yes but take under account your fortitude and will will be high enough and since it's defensive paladin you can spare 1-2 talents for righteous soul + body control for example. Usually prone is the one affected by reflex paralysis/petrify and the rest usually target fort and mind controlling spells usually attack will so the pallie will be ok most of the time. With shield and the rest reflex will not be that bad either... just average but not terrible.

[Teioh_White]

The thing about tanking dex leading to a bad Reflex Save means you'll have that much higher a Fort or Will save. Which is actually better, the really nasty stuff you'll want to try to get only miss/grazes on are Fort/Will stuff. Most things that target Reflex save aren't a big deal, and while a lot of damage effects use Reflex, your DT can absorb a good deal of that so long as it's not critting. And as mentioned, SnS style goes a decent ways towards getting even a crappy Reflex save off the crit table.

 

Even better for Plds, because with the free +22 to all saves, and the extra +5 from the shield, by tanking the Reflex save and taking some talents, they're pretty much the only class that has a good chance of just shrugging off all those extremely annoying CC's that mobs like to toss around later.

[Torm51]

The thing about tanking dex leading to a bad Reflex Save means you'll have that much higher a Fort or Will save. Which is actually better, the really nasty stuff you'll want to try to get only miss/grazes on are Fort/Will stuff. Most things that target Reflex save aren't a big deal, and while a lot of damage effects use Reflex, your DT can absorb a good deal of that so long as it's not critting. And as mentioned, SnS style goes a decent ways towards getting even a crappy Reflex save off the crit table.

 

Even better for Plds, because with the free +22 to all saves, and the extra +5 from the shield, by tanking the Reflex save and taking some talents, they're pretty much the only class that has a good chance of just shrugging off all those extremely annoying CC's that mobs like to toss around later.

I agree I just don't think I would Dump the hell out of Dex because I want to be at least somewhat offensively viable after 2.0.  A durable Frontliner who can contribute some damage.  Maybe I am wrong but dumping dex to 3 would make you super slow.  I might put at 8 but no lower.

[Torm51]

The thing about tanking dex leading to a bad Reflex Save means you'll have that much higher a Fort or Will save. Which is actually better, the really nasty stuff you'll want to try to get only miss/grazes on are Fort/Will stuff. Most things that target Reflex save aren't a big deal, and while a lot of damage effects use Reflex, your DT can absorb a good deal of that so long as it's not critting. And as mentioned, SnS style goes a decent ways towards getting even a crappy Reflex save off the crit table.

 

Even better for Plds, because with the free +22 to all saves, and the extra +5 from the shield, by tanking the Reflex save and taking some talents, they're pretty much the only class that has a good chance of just shrugging off all those extremely annoying CC's that mobs like to toss around later.

Well one of the only possible one hit KO abilities in the game targets Reflex and that is Dragon Breathes

[Ymarsakar]

-8 sounds like a reasonable compromise.

 

Generally to get might to 15 at least. I got the monk and chanter normally to distribute damage on the line, so the incoming dps on the paladin has slown down drastically compared to when I used a single paladin as only tank in 1.0

 

They buffed up the Caed Nua resting bonuses too, so that +3 dex or other bonuses you can pick, is very good since it lasts for 2 rests.

 

The alpha strike weapons or big hitters that apply much of their damage in the first 30-60s of the fight benefits less from dex than the weapons which rely on rate of fire to do many hits for damage.

 

Vulnerable attack is very good early on, but if you have a superb weapon that -10 to -20% attacks have to be made up by the previous attacks x 5 points of damage from the dr pen.

 

So if you make 10 attacks, and the last 1-2 attacks do more damage than 8 x 5=40 pts of damage then vulnerable attack doesn't increase your dps by much.

 

A side note is that vulnerable attack somehow applies to retaliation attacks, so if you have a retaliate mod on or if the paladin fire aoe is considered a retaliate attack, then it might be worth taking vulnerable attack.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Ymarsakar

[dukefx]

Pally's base acc is 25.

Yeah, my bad... thought for a moment base accs would be 15/20/25, but it's 20/25/30

[KDubya]

Also Vulnerable attack affects only attack speed not total action speed.

 

I just ran a quick test counting swings of two guys with the same dex, both in plate swinging Great Swords, one with Vulnerable Attack and one with out. At about the same moment that one guy had 22 swings, the other had 20. This puts it a lot closer to a total -10% action speed malus not 20%.

 

Maybe faster weapons are affected more due to less fixed pause in the action chain.

 

I did another quick test of two guys in plate with great swords one running Vulnerable Attack, hitting two targets with 5 DR robes. The guy using Vulnerable Attack killed his target first by 13 swings. The targets have 1600+ health so it takes at least 100 swings to drop them and their deflection is high enough to not allow crits. I'm assuming that over 100 attacks you'll follow normal probabilities.

 

I tried it with the attackers naked in case the plate recovery speed was affecting the result. I tried it with Exceptional Great Swords instead of Fine ones. Every time the guy using Vulnerable Attack on a target with only 5 DR dropped his guy first.

 

I even tried it with naked monks (level 12) with fists against 5 DR robes and got the same result. DR bypass does more damage over time even with only 5 DR

 

I've seen it stated that -50% armor recovery = -33% action speed. Maybe the -20% attack speed  = -13%  So like 7&1/2 attacks or 15 w/o and 13 with, which would get you 13x5 = 65 more damage that would have to be made up from the two extra. Somewhere around 37 average damage [2*(Y-5)=65] per hit it'd be worthwhile to turn off Vulnerable Attack.

 

I'd say that Vulnerable Attack is always better unless something has less than 5 DR, which most things do not.

[AndreaColombo]

To clarify: Everything that says "attack speed" only affects recovery time except DEX, which affects everything.

 

So for firearms, an "attack speed" penalty actually reduces your attack rate by 1/3 of the % stated (if not even less, since reload takes so much longer than everything else); for all other weapons it is about 1/2. The same is true for stuff that speeds you up; e.g. Potion of Deleterious Alacrity of Motion gives you +50% that only applies to recovery, so it's more like +25% total attack speed. Likewise, a Barbarian's Frenzy gives you +33% attack speed which is more like 16.7% in total.

 

DEX is an exception as it also affects the speed at which your attack animation plays (or any other animation, like reading scrolls or sipping potions.)

[Elric Galad]

Which means Exhortations with no recovery time are not affected at all by armor.

[dukefx]

Josh clearly said that they would alter recovery speed first so it won't break the animation. This isn't even news.

[Boeroer]

I don't think Immolation profits from Vulnarable Attack since it's a non melee periodical AOE burn attack. But Scion oft Flame works - also for FoD. I took Lead Spitter for alpha FoD strikes and added penetrating shot instead of Vulnarable Attack (and also Ryona's Vembraces) for a nice 15 DR bypass on my alpha strike and I'm constantly hitting above 140 if the target doesn't have superhigh burn DR. Then I run into the mob and turn on Sacred Immolation. Then my barb dragon leaps beside me and starts to carnage-stun everybody - which lets my immolation hit/crit even more while it heals my barb. Pouf! Everybody's dead in seconds. In Act III... with PotD... including bounties and such. Very easy - I think Thaos will be a walk in the park. Now I really love paladins.