Disappointed with 2.0 Respec

[redneckdevil]

I maybe a bit biased (okay I am) having been a GM. I don't agree that the companions should be respected by their attributes for quite a few reasons.

1. You get to create ur own character, the watcher. You get to build them however u want them to. The watcher is your character. The pre made companions are Obsidians (aka the GM/DM of the stories) characters. Yes u can have them in ur party and u control their actions, but what u don't control is their character. In dialogue it's ur character u get to select when talking with the companions chiming in but u don't control what they chin in about. U can help further their character when they ask u for advice, but their "characters" are not urs.

2. This ones a bit silly but imho it devalues the attributes as far as what they relate to "character". The dialogue and backstory and actions that u don't control are there in the attributes and the companions help further the attribute value when it comes to "character". Ex. Durance with his high resolve, his dialogue and backstory and his actions and convictions further imprint the mentality of the importance of attributes when designing the "character" part in the game world.

3.......because I don't want them to...yeah very bad reason for an argument but a reason non the less.

4. Create ur own adventurers was so if u didn't like the companions personalities OR STATS u could create ur own instead.

Edited December 28, 2015 by redneckdevil

[Rosbjerg]

That being said, I cannot understand why so many people were so dismissive, and others openly belligerent, to the OP. They spent their money, same as you did, for the game. They have the right to voice an opinion. If you disagree with them, that's cool, but why in the world would you say, "No, I don't want more content for this game I paid for."? Keep it to yourself, or remember, as others have stated, you can opt not to use the feature. Asking them to download third-party software or files to fix something they perceive as a problem is not a valid response as they're addressing the product he paid for.

 

This is not a blog, it's a forum. As such opinions will differ and be discussed, not merely presented. The counter argument could be that I have paid just the same and adding "features" that many find irrelevant would take away development time from features I would like to see included.. Hence this discussion. Which is a good and healthy way to express disagreement if you ask me, we have after all been discussing it fairly civilized (and be more than welcome to report posts you feel violate forum guidelines)

 

In fact, I'd like to ask you to tone down the rhetoric. Calling people asinine and self centered, simply for disagreeing with you, is incidentally very much against the board rules.

[Yosharian]

Just get the IE mod and you can change whatever you want, even their classes. Make Durance a monk or a paladin. Will have to wait a week or two for IE mod to get updated to 2.0 though.

Does IE Mod work flawlessly with the current version tho?

 

Always wary of using third-party mods with games like PoE.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Yosharian

[Fenixp]

Does IE Mod work flawlessly with the current version tho?

 

Always wary of using third-party mods with games like PoE.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't at all. Then again, this discussion is a bit older.

[Tigranes]

If modders updated it to current version, it will be fine. 

 

Obviously, back up your saves, which is a rule for any modification.

[jintegrity]

I don't recall calling anyone asinine or self-centered. I said denying others something just because it has no benefit to you is. If the reasons for opposing such a change is a matter of prioritizing resources, that's fine. If it is just, "I don't like it, so don't add it, regardless of what others might want," then that is self-centered.

Semantics aside, what other features are we talkin' about? Quests and story additions that would give the companions unique options not available to the player or adventurers, such as in the examples I listed above, might be preferable. A greater variety of soulbound weapons would be cool. Some rebalancing of the races so that there aren't any obvious "best choices" (Wood Elf for ranged, for example) would be appreciated, though should be done with buffs or changes, not nerfs to the good stuff, in my opinion. An in-game way of looking up information about the game via main menu, and in-game (similar to the Civilopedia) would be wonderful for allowing new players to do their own research, and could pull from the game files directly to ensure the most recent information is always displayed.

Now, I'd rather have companion respec' than quite a few of the listed items above, and comparing the resources spent to incorporate companions in to the pre-existing respec' system, rather than some unstated possibility doesn't interest me. What are we actually losing to get such a thing incorporated, if it is even remotely possible that it'd be considered?

[Mocker22]

 

 

In game companions certainly should be available to have their stats respecced. The arguments against it are very weak. Someone says something about not changing the characters that Obsidian designed, well the characters will still be the characters. The lines will be written the same, their voice actors the same, their model the same. The specs are not show in dialogue. The specs are mechanics, not character, and a part of the game systems that players should be able to change to give them more options to decide how to play the game.

 

Also, the idea that we shouldn't be "pitching a fit" or whatever said is again nonsense. This is the official forum, you really expect people not give feedback?

 

While I like the game overall l hope no one is pretending there are not some glaring design faults.

You provide no "strong" counterargument? In fact your point rest on the assumption that the mechanics of the game are only there to further your particular style of play and internal and logical consitency must naturally take a backseat to this.. Which I disagree with, as do many others. So why is this argument "stronger" than prefering the artistic integrity of the developers original idea of the character is preserved?

 

I'm not sure I understand the problem with re speccing companions, you do realize that if the OP was able to re spec companions and chose to do so that those companions wouldn't suddenly change in your game as well right? Those changes effectively take place in a Vacuum inside that one players game and no where else, and just because the option is there doesn't mean YOU have to use it.....

 

This is the most important point to me. I would LOVE to play with the available companions, but my god the stats are bad. I'm the type of gamer who likes to optimize, so sue me. There is no excuse to not let us respect the companions, as those players who don't want to don't have to!!

 

Also it is very important to point out that the mechanics of the game have changed a lot since these characters were created. Perception was changed entirely! I do understand the concept of keeping characters true to their personalities, but at the same time make the companions at least decent. I cannot easily think of one companions where their stats don't make me cringe. Maybe Kana for how I would play him? And I can't really recall Hiravas's weaknesses.

[Rosbjerg]

As I've said earlier it boils down to whether you think player agency or game consistency is paramount

 

And nothing wrong with that, but from personal experience and watching the effect of radically increased player agency focus on game series, from Total War to Fallout - I would prefer if this 'part of the woods' stayed clear of that. And argue that this is something you might want, but that kinda design mentality severly cheapen the experience for the kind of player who enjoys game consistency. Also this kind of customization does not traditionally belong in this genre, so you're not being cheated from a feature... In the same way that you are not being cheated in an RTS game when you can't radically alter your faction on a whim.

[PrimeJunta]

Yeah.

 

I'm in the no-respec camp, and would like to state for the record that merely knowing the option is there cheapens the experience for me, by trivialising the choices I make when levelling up. And no, I don't use it.

 

Not to a "WHAA it's ruined forever and ever and I'll never play it again" extent, but nevertheless.

[HawkSoft]

I'm in the no-respec camp, and would like to state for the record that merely knowing the option is there cheapens the experience for me, by trivialising the choices I make when levelling up. And no, I don't use it.

I, too, think respec cheapens the game and, if it must be in the game is ridiculously underpriced at higher levels.

 

I could settle for something like the limited retraining in Torchlight 2 (an action RPG) where you can only unlearn the 3 most recent skills learnt and it relatively more expensive.

 

 

I will admit, however, to respecing Eder to get rid of Defender which has been nerfed by the changes to how disengage works, 

[Zenbane]

The only reason I like the respect mechanic in Pillars is because of the fact that experience points are gained from quests instead of combat. Due to this fact, it can take a very long time to try out new character build ideas if we rely on exp gaining alone; which would be an unfortunate burden, imo. Allowing players to respec easily instead of investing 30+ hours to test out a new build idea seems like a noteworthy compromise.

 

My 2 cents

[PrimeJunta]

The only reason I like the respect mechanic in Pillars is because of the fact that experience points are gained from quests instead of combat. Due to this fact, it can take a very long time to try out new character build ideas if we rely on exp gaining alone; which would be an unfortunate burden, imo. Allowing players to respec easily instead of investing 30+ hours to test out a new build idea seems like a noteworthy compromise.

 

My 2 cents

 

Two words: hired adventurers.

[Zenbane]

 

The only reason I like the respect mechanic in Pillars is because of the fact that experience points are gained from quests instead of combat. Due to this fact, it can take a very long time to try out new character build ideas if we rely on exp gaining alone; which would be an unfortunate burden, imo. Allowing players to respec easily instead of investing 30+ hours to test out a new build idea seems like a noteworthy compromise.

 

My 2 cents

 

Two words: hired adventurers.

 

 

But how will I know if say, My Paladin can impact 5 completely different other character classes? I would still be limited to a "baseline build" by not being able to respect my main. Stop trying to take away my freedoms, dont let the terrorists win!

[DreamWayfarer]

Respec is also good when you are trying classes you aren't familiar with. What do you do when you suddenly realize the character you love is not viable past level 6? I am all for skill respec, and wouldn't really mind companion attribute respec, although I wouldn't change too much the stats because of how they impact their personalities.

Edited December 29, 2015 by DreamWayfarer

[HawkSoft]

Standard practice in Infinity Engine games (EG Balders Gate) was to create a save file before each level up if only to avoid the dreaded roll of a one on the hit point dice.

 

Those games originally followed the pen & paper rules so health gain was variable on level up 

[DreamWayfarer]

Standard practice in Infinity Engine games (EG Balders Gate) was to create a save file before each level up

You know how much it would slow my computer down if I tried this on PoEt?

Edited December 29, 2015 by DreamWayfarer

[jintegrity]

Yeah.

 

I'm in the no-respec camp, and would like to state for the record that merely knowing the option is there cheapens the experience for me, by trivialising the choices I make when levelling up. And no, I don't use it.

 

Not to a "WHAA it's ruined forever and ever and I'll never play it again" extent, but nevertheless.

If you don't use it, it should have no bearing on you. It shouldn't cheapen your experience. You still get to experience decisions with lasting consequences. The existence of companion stat respec' should not effect you.

 

It only affects those who want it, or those who lack the will not to use it. The former camp it makes happy. The latter lack the self-discipline to be happy in the first place.

[Tigranes]

If there's a 5-gold piece super nuclear bazooka that kills anything in 1 hit, you don't have to use it, but it probably has a bearing on your experience. 

 

It's a line in the sand as to when things get prominent enough that they spoil your experience of the game - after all, the enjoyment of a game, in many cases is about playing within the rules and trying to be the best within them. It's not really a sustainable logical rule, but a contextually specific, grey one. 

 

Me, I think respec potions should be in the game, especially a few months after release, but there's no need for them to be dirt cheap, which makes it too close to god mode/console commands.

[Elerond]

Players should only be able to respec choices that they themselves made in the game, because main purpose of respec is to allow players to fix their characters if they are broken because of bug, wrong description, patch, etc., so that player don't need to start long campaign from beginning because of something that wasn't their fault in anyway and which is also difficult to foresee.

 

If premade companions are bad then developer need to fix them instead of just putting tool in game so that players can fix them by themselves that is just cheap cop out.

[HawkSoft]

 

Standard practice in Infinity Engine games (EG Balders Gate) was to create a save file before each level up

You know how much it would slow my computer down if I tried this on PoEt?

 

Of course not as I have no idea what the spec of your computer is

 

i DO remember (just - it was a long time ago) how long it took to level up a party after a boss fight in BG1, you needed multiple re-loads and intermediate saves so as to get a reasonable number of hit points for each character

In later years there were mods available to maximise HP at level-up and the current edition has an options setting.

[PrimeJunta]

i DO remember (just - it was a long time ago) how long it took to level up a party after a boss fight in BG1, you needed multiple re-loads and intermediate saves so as to get a reasonable number of hit points for each character

In later years there were mods available to maximise HP at level-up and the current edition has an options setting.

I never did this btw... OTOH I start-scummed the hey out of it to get godly stats for the PC.

[HawkSoft]

 

i DO remember (just - it was a long time ago) how long it took to level up a party after a boss fight in BG1, you needed multiple re-loads and intermediate saves so as to get a reasonable number of hit points for each character

In later years there were mods available to maximise HP at level-up and the current edition has an options setting.

I never did this btw... OTOH I start-scummed the hey out of it to get godly stats for the PC.

 

I set aside a (very) long evening to rolling up my *ultimate* Icewind Dale party.

 

The *traditional* IE character creation process was a real chore