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Update #99: Announcing the Expansion and Update 2.0

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Probably overly hopeful of me to ask, but will Kickstarter backers who received physical copies of Pillars of Eternity at a level that included the expansion also receive a physical copy of The White March?  Will physical editions even be produced?

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For the most part I like the changes I see, both gameplay and content wise. That said, I strongly second what Gromnir and others have said, that a respec option would mean a lot to me in light of it all. Consider that, once the code has been made, it could hopefully be reused (even if it has to be modified) for future expansions. Thanks.

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9 months earlier ...

 

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Question about the AI.

 

Is it only broadly  behavioral or can you set your party members to use certain abilities or buffs as soon the battle starts? Especially those that become per encounter use at level 9 and 11 since they aren't really wasted uses by that point.

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9 months earlier ...

 

 

 

 

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

...

 

am confused.  fact that poe is using an attribute distribution familiar to those who saw those suggestions made by matt516 and yourself is cause for additional sensuki caterwauling, or rejoicing? 

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Something not covered in the update/video because it's not a super high profile feature is that we can scale base abilities and weapons much more easily now, so things like Holy Radiance, Arcane Assault, and Spiritshift weapons/armor can become more powerful as the character gains levels. These updates will also be in the next patch.

 

This is actually fairly high profile in my books :)

 

Josh,

 

one criticism moved to the base game was a decrease in difficulty/challenge toward the second half, and that was with 12 levels and base-game loot. With the expansion offering 2 more levels, extra loot, and soulbound weapons, is the base game being somewhat rebalanced?

Edited by AndreaColombo

"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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So 1.07 and 2.0 patch are the same, or will there be different versions wiht or without the expansion ? 

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9 months earlier ...

 

 

 

 

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

...

 

am confused. fact that poe is using an attribute distribution familiar to those who saw those suggestions made by matt516 and yourself is cause for additional sensuki caterwauling, or rejoicing?

 

HA! Good Fun!

Haha - I think he's remarking on the fact that if that change is made, it'll be not similar to (which it already was), but pretty much exactly what we suggested. Only difference would be the numerical values of the boni - though an important one to be sure.

 

I'd be interested to see if our reasoning still holds up - the game systems have gone through a lot of iterations since then. Many of the changes have made the stats less dependent on one another - the hit quality modifier being additive as opposed to multiplicative pretty much removes the interaction between Might and Accuracy that was the foundation of our math.

 

That said, the removal of this interaction makes the math easier, not harder. And at first blush +1 Accuracy seems pretty weak (especially compared to +3% damage from Might; 1 point of Accuracy is only worth +1-1.5% damage), but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Accuracy is useful for a bit more than boosting expected damage, after all. Interested to see what they come up with. Weak as it is, that change should at least keep Perception from being a dump stat (which is sorta is at the moment).

 

I'm excited for the upcoming changes and the expansion. I do have one worry though - as is, the final battle is balanced for a party around level 10, becoming progressively easier beyond that point (I beat it my first try going in blind at lvl 12 on Hard). With the expansion being set before the final battle and also increasing the level cap, will there be any rebalancing to that effect? Have they mentioned anything about encounter rebalancing in general?

Edited by Matt516
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Matt516, I ninja'd you by a few seconds with the question on balance! :p :D

 

On another note, for those who may want to respec after Perception is changed to grant Accuracy, I would remind you that the IE Mod allows that without disabling achievements.


"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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9 months earlier ...

 

 

 

 

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

...

 

am confused. fact that poe is using an attribute distribution familiar to those who saw those suggestions made by matt516 and yourself is cause for additional sensuki caterwauling, or rejoicing?

 

HA! Good Fun!

Haha - I think he's remarking on the fact that if that change is made, it'll be not similar to (which it already was), but pretty much exactly what we suggested. Only difference would be the numerical values of the boni - though an important one to be sure.

 

 

 

the numerical values is indeed important, but again, shouldn't it be a positive to you and sensuki that obsidian is gonna, for at least this incarnation o' poe, use an attribute distribution so familiar to you both?  you seem pleased.  the change is a good thing, yes? does sensuki seem pleased?  is a question.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

  • Like 1

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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I really like how expansion is going. Please also add steal and random encounters! Low int. dialogue it's also a must later in a patch... 

Edited by FlorianGh

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I feel you Matt about the battles in the later part of the game. I think Josh talked in an interview somewhere about valid criticism about adding more difficulty to the game for hardcore players, so I think that will be the case. Overall the improvements looks very nice, and the freedom of choice to use them or not is fantastic.
Hopefully Sensuki will actually be able to enjoy the game now albeit abit late. Despite whatever has happened, I think everyone would want that for him.
 

Fantastic job OE and cool to hear from you on the forum again Mr. Sawyer!

 

Edit: Here is the quote Matt -> "The most frequent complaints focused on[...] reduced combat challenge in the late game"

Edited by TheisEjsing
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Hopefully Sensuki will actually be able to enjoy the game now albeit abit late. Despite whatever has happened, I think everyone would want that for him.

does sensuki seem pleased?  is a question.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

This may sound very "Bah Humbug", but which combat stats are tied to which attributes is such a minor problem compared to the rest of the issues with the game that I didn't even end up bothering to release it as a mod/part of the IE Mod (I did make it and test it though, in v492).

 

I'm probably going to include my expansion keys in the sale of my phyiscal CE of the game when I sell it.

Edited by Sensuki
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Does it means that 2.0 is the next patch and it will be released at the same time as the expansion or does a 1.7 patch is still scheduled ?

 

I will start a new game and if a new patch is soon to be released, I can wait for it.


French localizations here.

French localization thread here.

 

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Hopefully Sensuki will actually be able to enjoy the game now albeit abit late. Despite whatever has happened, I think everyone would want that for him.

does sensuki seem pleased?  is a question.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

This may sound very "Bah Humbug"

 

we would say predictable rather than bah humbug. no biggie

 

I feel you Matt about the battles in the later part of the game. I think Josh talked in an interview somewhere about valid criticism about adding more difficulty to the game for hardcore players, so I think that will be the case. Overall the improvements looks very nice, and the freedom of choice to use them or not is fantastic.

Hopefully Sensuki will actually be able to enjoy the game now albeit abit late. Despite whatever has happened, I think everyone would want that for him.

 

Fantastic job OE and cool to hear from you on the forum again Mr. Sawyer!

 

the thing we specific recall from recent josh interviews is his recognition that the criticism that later parts o' the game became too easy for far too many players was a justified complaint and that the developers were taking steps to fix that problem. am not sure what the fix is. scaling of at least the major encounters would be a good start... could even make it optional scaling as with the expansion material.  regardless, while the decreasing late game difficulty were not addressed in the video or other recent expansion news, josh did address the problem and admitted that change were desirable.

 

is still a head scratcher problem given how certain the obsidian folks seemed regarding xp progression. adding token lock and exploration and bestiary xp were no biggie precisely 'cause o' the complete awareness the obsidians had o' xp awards and the ease with which they could balance such awards.  clearly the notion that level 12 would require a dedicated completionist and would only be attainable in the extreme late portions o' the game were a misapprehension.  somewhere along the way, the xp calculations were flubbed, and not in a small way.  as matt observes, the late game, critical path encounters appear balanced for level 9-10 and levels confer significant power in poe. 

 

oh well, whatever were the cause, the developers is not only aware o' the xp issue, but they admitted that it were a valid concern.  am expecting some kinda adjustment... though whether the changes is sufficient will require gameplay.

 

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Preferred Forton.

That said, I'm really looking forward to Forton Zahua. Sounds interesting and is written by Eric Fenstermaker, who also wrote Edér - although I'm not a fan of the portrait, it's a pretty big departure from the art we've seen on Forton/Zahua, especially when you say that he's the guy on the cover. I don't know what it is, maybe it's the symmetrical nature of the ritual scarification.

Can't say I'm looking as much forward to "The Devil of Caroc", who sounds both snowflake-y ("I'm a GOLEM inhabited by the SOUL of a murderer, and my name is a verb!") and trope-y ("I'm en evuuul rogue and I've DONE things!"). I wasn't a fan of Sagani, either, but this seems to be going wrong in the opposite direction.

I question the label of "New Feature" in regards to Stealth, because it's honestly nothing short of a fix to a horrible, horrible state of affairs upon release. I'm really, really, really looking forward to seeing that fixed, and it'll make a real difference to combat. Unless other things are also fixed, I'm not sure it'll make a real difference in how things actually play out, but at least it won't feel like you're fighting the system just to do anything with a rogue or melee squishy of any kind.

The Accuracy and range indicators are a welcome addition, but I'd still like to see a better UI overall, and there's many opportunities for improvement, such as a centred combat log and moving recovery time indicators away from the clusterf**k that is on-screen, and into the UI, above, below or to the sides of party member portraits. Official supporting a modular UI would be even better, and mods have show that it's very doable. The current official solid UI is pretty terrible.
 

Something not covered in the update/video because it's not a super high profile feature is that we can scale base abilities and weapons much more easily now, so things like Holy Radiance, Arcane Assault, and Spiritshift weapons/armor can become more powerful as the character gains levels. These updates will also be in the next patch.


I'd prefer that to not to have to happen, but in the current system, it's probably the easiest solution, and it's better than what we have. Reviving Exhortation, I'm looking at you.
 

 

to that end, with all the changes forthcoming, will there be a respec option? am personal not the least concerned with achievements, but use of console not only fails to address all character modification needs but its use diables achievements.

HA! Good Fun!

ps we didn't know that holy radiance needed a buff. fully modified by the maxing of favored dispositions o' a chosen deity, holy radiance already strikes us as quite efficacious.


I was just talking to Roby and Adam about a respec feature. It's a little complicated, but it's not something we're opposed to and we're going to look into the logistics of implementing it. I know that's vague but character creation and advancement are complicated and sometimes seemingly simple things are quite difficult.

With some of the new scaling, I've been tuning down some of the other means of powering up base abilities (like Talents). Until now, Talents were one of the only mechanical ways that we could scale some abilities up.

 


Please, please, please dear lord, no, no respec feature. People want new characters, have them create new characters. It's not the end of the world, and even radical changes aren't going to completely gimp their current characters. Pillars of Eternity is extremely forgiving as it is, to the point where it's sometimes hard to discern whether build decisions meaningfully changed anything at all.

And as for Talents being tuned down - boooooh. If anything, Talents needs to be tuned up, but more importantly, Talents that affects Abilities shouldn't be looked at from a Buff/Nerf perspective to begin with, but from a perspective of adding features and effects to pre-existing abilities.

Talents that simply improve something by X is boring. Talents that add Y aspect to something is fun. Versatility and utility is harder to gauge from a balance perspective, but it also has the potential to be more fulfilling as a choice and have more interesting effects than straight-up buffs.
 

 

Hopefully Sensuki will actually be able to enjoy the game now albeit abit late. Despite whatever has happened, I think everyone would want that for him.


does sensuki seem pleased?  is a question.  
 
HA! Good Fun!


This may sound very "Bah Humbug", but which combat stats are tied to which attributes is such a minor problem compared to the rest of the issues with the game that I didn't even end up bothering to release it as a mod/part of the IE Mod (I did make it and test it though, in v492).

[...]

 


Unfortunately. As much as I can't wait to see the Attributes being fixed (which took me by complete surprise, considering that it's been completely ignored since well before release), it won't magically "fix" the game itself. There are far worse offenders, such as a lack of thematic immunities and sensible resistances, the armour dichotomy, the same-y weapons (partly due to the problems related to armour), the war on mobility, the obsession against buffing, and the utterly insane and completely arbitrary "Combat Only" system.

And even that is secondary to a fluffmuppet like myself, who find the narrative oddities much, much worse. Like. Durance. Best character. Worst, most nonsense ending.

Which makes me want to ask the question; what about the base game? Can we expect some revised or revisited content? Some additional polish in the storytelling department and a second pass on the sidequests? I'm hoping "Yes" but expecting "No".

 

And will the new aspects of the expansion (CNPC:s in particular) be properly integrated into the base game, such as having interjections at appropriate times (including sidequests) and conversations with existing CNPC:s? Proper integration of expansion content is extremely rare and expansions stand out as sore thumbs when it's absent.

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Any ETA on 2.0?

Haven't even managed to install the game yet and I think I'd like it much better with party AI.

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Thank you to the Obsidian developers for all their hard work and response to the games fans and critics.  They have a difficult job trying to respond to so many people who vary not only in likes and dislikes but in mastery of different elements of the game.   Those early IE games had little competition but now we have many games to choose from.    Gamers are much more experienced and often feel because they are capable of beating certain games on Insane they are experts on all games of the same or similar category.

 

The forums are getting posters who are having problems at the early level mainly IMO to a lack of understanding how the game works and not doing their research and reading.  It will I think be hard for the developers to satisfy everyone and I think an option to scale up enemies would make a big difference.

 

I am looking forward to meeting  "The Devil of Caroc" she sounds very interesting to me.  I am also thrilled about the change in stealth.  Just what I wanted.  The rogue assassin was my favorite character to play in the IE games.


 I have but one enemy: myself  - Drow saying


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9 months earlier ...

 

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

A shame that these things need to go through an official QA team.

Edited by View619

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Can't say I'm looking as much forward to "The Devil of Caroc", who sounds both snowflake-y ("I'm a GOLEM inhabited by the SOUL of a murderer, and my name is a verb!") and trope-y ("I'm en evuuul rogue and I've DONE things!"). I wasn't a fan of Sagani, either, but this seems to be going wrong in the opposite direction.

 

"The Devil of Caroc" a verb? Personally, I think "Grieving Mother" is sillier. Also, Zahua sounds better than Forton, fits better in the world as they said..

 

I agree with you that it seems too Torment-esque of a character though. It is a huge challenge to write a character like this without seeming overly pretentious or out of place. The fact that it is a possessed bronze armor should not just be a stylistic choice, but it should justify and complement the caracter's arc/personality.

 

I'm also hoping that the expansion doesn't work exclusively as extra content, but as an improvement of the base game. The new companions should interact with the player, as well as NPCs and other companions, in the main story. This expansion is a huge opportunity to add more reactivity into the game and improve on the more unpolished features such as the stronghold. That would be great even if done in part II. 

 

[nitpicking!] It seemed odd to me that a bronze armor could be a sneaky assassin. How does it enter stealth? Also, in the new trailer, there's blood coming out of the construct [/nitpicking!]

Edited by LuccA

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folks being resistant to respec 'cause players other than themselves might actual use the respec is wholly irrational.  think respec is a waste o' resources?  sure, we get that, but whenever we hear the bass-ackwards philosophy o' the crpg purists who is offended by the indignity that a person they will never meet will possibly use respec in a game such as poe... well, we weep for future generations when we needs must read through such complaints.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

  • Like 2

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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