Charleston church massacre

[Ganrich]

I live in the South East US, and I have vacationed close to Charleston. They have a wonderful market there, and man... That vendor that sells hot sauce has some serious stuff.

 

Anyway, as someone that has been born and raised south of the Mason Dixon line, and east of the Mississippi River, I can say there are definitely still racial issues here. I have, many years ago in High School, met people associated with the KKK. I didn't associate with them, but they expressed their participation in that group, and I expressed my disgust in it. I am sure there is more reason than the fact that these states were the bulk of the confederacy during our civil war, but I don't doubt that plays a part. I can say that there are older folks that still hold onto old hate, and I am sure they pass that on to their children.

 

One day this country might realize that there is only one human race, but it will take time. I can say that even in my life (I am 31) that the generation of kids in their 20s are much more mixed (racially, for lack of a better term) than even 10 years ago. So, very slowly that hate is dying. At least by my observation. However, it is sad that something like this can still happen. My heart goes out to the families.

 

They also caught this kid in Shelby NC, and I live around 1 hours drive from there. Let me say that I am not surprised he went to ground in Shelby.

[rjshae]

Is there are racial wound? I don't know American society that well after all - but it does seem like it's only really a minority of blacks and whites that really hate each other?

 

I don't know for certain, but I'd like to think so. Statistically it varies quite a bit based on where you live.

 

This study was pretty interesting, for example.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/06/what-we-know-about-the-charleston-gunman.html

 

Scott Roof, who identified himself as the suspect's cousin, told The Intercept that "Dylann was normal until he started listening to that white power music stuff." He claims that "he kind of went over the edge when a girl he liked starting dating a black guy two years back." He added, "Dylann liked her ... The black guy got her. He changed. I don’t know if we would be here if not …" then hung up the phone.

I laughed at the bolded harder than I should have.

[Azdeus]

Yeah, blame women for this, why don'tcha!

[Meshugger]

His manifesto: http://lastrhodesian.com/data/documents/rtf88.txt

 

And yeah, once again **** the media for being exactly as counter-productive as expected them to be. Lone shooters feed on the exposure that they get, it is a positive feedback loop. 

[BruceVC]

His manifesto: http://lastrhodesian.com/data/documents/rtf88.txt

 

And yeah, once again **** the media for being exactly as counter-productive as expected them to be. Lone shooters feed on the exposure that they get, it is a positive feedback loop. 

 

How do you think the media should behave? I think they are reading too much into it 

[Meshugger]

 

His manifesto: http://lastrhodesian.com/data/documents/rtf88.txt

 

And yeah, once again **** the media for being exactly as counter-productive as expected them to be. Lone shooters feed on the exposure that they get, it is a positive feedback loop. 

 

How do you think the media should behave? I think they are reading too much into it 

 

 

Report the shooting as a tragedy, but in low key and in the same vein as when a kid have drowned. Absolutely nothing else. No name of the accused shooter should be released and no coverage of the trial should be done; deny the shooter any celebrity status completely.

[BruceVC]

 

 

His manifesto: http://lastrhodesian.com/data/documents/rtf88.txt

 

And yeah, once again **** the media for being exactly as counter-productive as expected them to be. Lone shooters feed on the exposure that they get, it is a positive feedback loop. 

 

How do you think the media should behave? I think they are reading too much into it 

 

 

Report the shooting as a tragedy, but in low key and in the same vein as when a kid have drowned. Absolutely nothing else. No name of the accused shooter should be released and no coverage of the trial should be done; deny the shooter any celebrity status completely.

 

Okay well the suggestion of the media not making a big deal about this type of event is never going to happen for a variety of reasons, one of the main ones being there are sectors of the USA population that  expect the media to make a big deal about it....anything less and I'm sure the media would  receive major criticism 

[213374U]

Report the shooting as a tragedy, but in low key and in the same vein as when a kid have drowned. Absolutely nothing else. No name of the accused shooter should be released and no coverage of the trial should be done; deny the shooter any celebrity status completely.

 

In today's world, that would accomplish little. Somebody would dig into court records or something and post the details online regardless. He'd get his minute of glory anyway. Surely you are not suggesting "secret" arrests and trials...?

 

I'm curious: where did you get that link? I doubt the site will be up much longer.

Edited June 20, 2015 by 213374U

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Archived link in case it goes down. https://archive.is/GSdDO

 

Reads like a whiny neet ranting.

[BruceVC]

I see its not confirmed that he wrote that manifesto but it seems exactly the type of racist and uninformed  diatribe  he would believe..so it wouldn't surprise me if it was his garbage 

 

I had to force myself to read it 

[Ineth]

 

Report the shooting as a tragedy, but in low key and in the same vein as when a kid have drowned. Absolutely nothing else. No name of the accused shooter should be released and no coverage of the trial should be done; deny the shooter any celebrity status completely.

 

In today's world, that would accomplish little. Somebody would dig into court records or something and post the details online regardless.

 

Indeed. The media are covering that info because if they didn't, people would go to competing outlets who do.

[BruceVC]

What do you guys think about the request to take down the Confederate flag from Charleston due to sensitivity of the whole situation?

 

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/take-down-the-confederate-flag-now/396290/

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

His manifesto: http://lastrhodesian.com/data/documents/rtf88.txt

 

And yeah, once again **** the media for being exactly as counter-productive as expected them to be. Lone shooters feed on the exposure that they get, it is a positive feedback loop. 

 

How do you think the media should behave? I think they are reading too much into it 

 

 

Report the shooting as a tragedy, but in low key and in the same vein as when a kid have drowned. Absolutely nothing else. No name of the accused shooter should be released and no coverage of the trial should be done; deny the shooter any celebrity status completely.

 

Okay well the suggestion of the media not making a big deal about this type of event is never going to happen for a variety of reasons, one of the main ones being there are sectors of the USA population that  expect the media to make a big deal about it....anything less and I'm sure the media would  receive major criticism 

 

 

Don't watch the news coverage, involve all you know to do the same.

 

My point of view isn't exactly revolutionary, it's from the national institute of mental and institution general: 

 

 

Never publish a shooter's propaganda. Aside from the act itself, there is no greater aim for the mass killer than to see his own grievances broadcast far and wide. Many shooters directly cite the words of prior killers as inspiration. In 2007, the forensic psychiatrist Michael Welner told "Good Morning America" that the Virginia Tech shooter's self-photos and videotaped ramblings were a "PR tape" that was a "social catastrophe" for NBC News to have aired.

 

Hide their names and faces. With the possible exception of an at-large shooter, concealing their identities will remove much of the motivation for infamy.

Don't report on biography or speculate on motive. While most shooters have had difficult life events, they were rarely severe, and perpetrators are adept at grossly magnifying injustices they have suffered. Even talking about motive may encourage the perception that these acts can be justified. Police and the media also can contain the contagion of mass shootings by withholding or embargoing details:

 

Minimize specifics and gory details. Shooters are motivated by infamy for their actions as much as by infamy for themselves. Details of the event also help other troubled minds turn abstract frustrations into concrete fantasies. There should be no play-by-play and no descriptions of the shooter's clothes, words, mannerisms or weaponry.

 

No photos or videos of the event. Images, like the security camera photos of the armed Columbine shooters, can become iconic and even go viral. Just this year, the FBI foolishly released images of the Navy Yard shooter in action.

 

Finally, journalists and public figures must remove the dark aura of mystery shrouding mass killings and create a new script about them.

Talk about the victims but minimize images of grieving families. Reports should shift attention away from the shooters without magnifying the horrified reactions that perpetrators hope to achieve.

Decrease the saturation. Return the smaller shootings to the realm of local coverage and decrease the amount of reporting on the rest. Unsettling as it sounds, treating these acts as more ordinary crimes could actually make them less ordinary.

 

Tell a different story. There is a damping effect on suicide from reports about people who considered it but found help instead. Some enterprising reporters might find similar stories to tell about would-be mass shooters who reconsidered.

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303309504579181702252120052

 

 

Report the shooting as a tragedy, but in low key and in the same vein as when a kid have drowned. Absolutely nothing else. No name of the accused shooter should be released and no coverage of the trial should be done; deny the shooter any celebrity status completely.

 

In today's world, that would accomplish little. Somebody would dig into court records or something and post the details online regardless. He'd get his minute of glory anyway. Surely you are not suggesting "secret" arrests and trials...?

 

I'm curious: where did you get that link? I doubt the site will be up much longer.

 

 

See my post above. That's what i am talking about, not some secret police modus operandi.

 

I found the manifesto on 8chan.

 

//edit: i know the irony of posting the manifesto here, but 1) i am not the mainstream media, and 2) i always had a curiosity of how the mind works for people who commit extraordinary acts of violence. 

Edited June 20, 2015 by Meshugger

[Malcador]

What do you guys think about the request to take down the Confederate flag from Charleston due to sensitivity of the whole situation?

 

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/take-down-the-confederate-flag-now/396290/

Probably a good idea, whatever that flag stood for in the past, it just stands for racism.

[BruceVC]

 

What do you guys think about the request to take down the Confederate flag from Charleston due to sensitivity of the whole situation?

 

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/take-down-the-confederate-flag-now/396290/

Probably a good idea, whatever that flag stood for in the past, it just stands for racism.

 

From what I have been reading I doubt South Carolina will take the flag down or permanently remove it. People seem to say it represents heritage and if that's what they really believe it will hard to change there minds ?

[213374U]

I see its not confirmed that he wrote that manifesto but it seems exactly the type of racist and uninformed  diatribe  he would believe..so it wouldn't surprise me if it was his garbage 

 

I had to force myself to read it

It's possible that the manifesto isn't his but WHOIS says the domain was registered back in february. Could certainly be the handiwork of *chan trolls (hosted in Russia and registered under a proxy email). Smells funny, but I suppose that's to be expected. I'm still puzzled they haven't taken it down yet. Maybe being hosted overseas makes it difficult to pull the plug.

 

 

See my post above. That's what i am talking about, not some secret police modus operandi.

 

I found the manifesto on 8chan.

 

//edit: i know the irony of posting the manifesto here, but 1) i am not the mainstream media, and 2) i always had a curiosity of how the mind works for people who commit extraordinary acts of violence.

 

 

No, I don't find it ironic, random people posting it on *chan illustrates precisely my point. If the mainstream media do what you suggest, people will go elsewhere for the juicy details. And then you'll get YouTube channels making monetised vids out of this stuff. I'm not against it in principle, I just don't see how it could be done.

[BruceVC]

 

I see its not confirmed that he wrote that manifesto but it seems exactly the type of racist and uninformed  diatribe  he would believe..so it wouldn't surprise me if it was his garbage 

 

I had to force myself to read it

It's possible that the manifesto isn't his but WHOIS says the domain was registered back in february. Could certainly be the handiwork of *chan trolls (hosted in Russia and registered under a proxy email). Smells funny, but I suppose that's to be expected. I'm still puzzled they haven't taken it down yet. Maybe being hosted overseas makes it difficult to pull the plug.

 

See my post above. That's what i am talking about, not some secret police modus operandi.

 

I found the manifesto on 8chan.

 

//edit: i know the irony of posting the manifesto here, but 1) i am not the mainstream media, and 2) i always had a curiosity of how the mind works for people who commit extraordinary acts of violence.

 

 

No, I don't find it ironic, random people posting it on *chan illustrates precisely my point. If the mainstream media do what you suggest, people will go elsewhere for the juicy details. And then you'll get YouTube channels making monetised vids out of this stuff. I'm not against it in principle, I just don't see how it could be done.

 

 

Personally I am glad you posted it , I normally don't bother to read these types of things but I am glad I did as it reinforced all the reasons I am opposed to what he stands for 

 

And I need to discuss this  tonight on that radio station I participate in 

[Meshugger]

 

I see its not confirmed that he wrote that manifesto but it seems exactly the type of racist and uninformed  diatribe  he would believe..so it wouldn't surprise me if it was his garbage 

 

I had to force myself to read it

It's possible that the manifesto isn't his but WHOIS says the domain was registered back in february. Could certainly be the handiwork of *chan trolls (hosted in Russia and registered under a proxy email). Smells funny, but I suppose that's to be expected. I'm still puzzled they haven't taken it down yet. Maybe being hosted overseas makes it difficult to pull the plug.

 

See my post above. That's what i am talking about, not some secret police modus operandi.

 

I found the manifesto on 8chan.

 

//edit: i know the irony of posting the manifesto here, but 1) i am not the mainstream media, and 2) i always had a curiosity of how the mind works for people who commit extraordinary acts of violence.

 

 

No, I don't find it ironic, random people posting it on *chan illustrates precisely my point. If the mainstream media do what you suggest, people will go elsewhere for the juicy details. And then you'll get YouTube channels making monetised vids out of this stuff. I'm not against it in principle, I just don't see how it could be done.

 

 

Fair enough. But there's still one level of barrier though. It requires active searching for those who are interested instead of it being broadcasted to millions.

[BruceVC]

 

 

I see its not confirmed that he wrote that manifesto but it seems exactly the type of racist and uninformed  diatribe  he would believe..so it wouldn't surprise me if it was his garbage 

 

I had to force myself to read it

It's possible that the manifesto isn't his but WHOIS says the domain was registered back in february. Could certainly be the handiwork of *chan trolls (hosted in Russia and registered under a proxy email). Smells funny, but I suppose that's to be expected. I'm still puzzled they haven't taken it down yet. Maybe being hosted overseas makes it difficult to pull the plug.

 

See my post above. That's what i am talking about, not some secret police modus operandi.

 

I found the manifesto on 8chan.

 

//edit: i know the irony of posting the manifesto here, but 1) i am not the mainstream media, and 2) i always had a curiosity of how the mind works for people who commit extraordinary acts of violence.

 

 

No, I don't find it ironic, random people posting it on *chan illustrates precisely my point. If the mainstream media do what you suggest, people will go elsewhere for the juicy details. And then you'll get YouTube channels making monetised vids out of this stuff. I'm not against it in principle, I just don't see how it could be done.

 

 

Fair enough. But there's still one level of barrier though. It requires active searching for those who are interested instead of it being broadcasted to millions.

 

Personally I have no issue with this manifesto being in the public domain because then people can see just how dysfunctional this man was...and I am not even talking about the appalling ideological points he raises. Its full of egregious factual mistakes....the guy clearly wasn't very bright

 

So the only people who will read it and think its clever and insightful would already be racist. Its not like it will convince new people to start a race war...surly people can't be that naive? 

[Volourn]

"What do you guys think about the request to take down the Confederate flag from Charleston due to sensitivity of the whole situation?"

 

Flags aren't racist. Flags don't commit crimes. Flags don't shoot people.

 

The scumbag should be punished  for his evil crimes. But, the flag did nothing wrong. Plenty of people wave that flag and don't commit crimes.

 

Did you know  people who walk  commit murder? We should ban walking!

[HoonDing]

Better Confederate flag than evil commie USSA flag.

[BruceVC]

"What do you guys think about the request to take down the Confederate flag from Charleston due to sensitivity of the whole situation?"

 

Flags aren't racist. Flags don't commit crimes. Flags don't shoot people.

 

The scumbag should be punished  for his evil crimes. But, the flag did nothing wrong. Plenty of people wave that flag and don't commit crimes.

 

Did you know  people who walk  commit murder? We should ban walking!

Yes but we know  for a fact that certain flags symbolize something and they get banned for various reasons ....the salient question here is " does the Confederate flag really represent heritage for some people which would make it non-offensive to them" ?

 

I really don't know ?

[Rosbjerg]

Did you know  people who walk  commit murder? We should ban walking!

 

We should ban stupidity, but alas then the Earth would be empty and only populated by dolphins and mice.

[Volourn]

" does the Confederate flag really represent heritage for some people which would make it non-offensive to them" ?

 

Absolutely it does. But, the feels, man, the feels. Some people view it as 'racist' and according to them only their feels matter.

 

We should ban the Amerikan flag b/c people view it as evil.

 

We should ban the Kanadian flag too b/c it is offensive  to people as well - just ask many natives.

 

The logic of banning a flag is silly and dumb.

 

Flags do not murder people. PEOPLE.

 

You don't ban it people have hurt feels. You ban it people have hurt feels.

 

 Feels are for crybabies.