like00111 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Just curious, I was reading the patch notes and wasn't sure if thats what it meant in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ink Blot Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Just curious, I was reading the patch notes and wasn't sure if thats what it meant in there. If you're referring to this: A character does not need to be in Stealth/Search mode to detect traps that are 4 Mechanics difficulties lower that the skill score. then, no. It says quite clearly that you can detect traps 4 or more Mechanics levels lower than your character(s) possess if not in Stealth mode. Secrets and higher level traps still require you to be in Stealth mode (thus making this change kind of pointless, IMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manageri Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Actually I think the patch notes there simply failed to mention secrets, I'm like 90% sure I've detected secrets without scouting too now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Yeah I've detected secrets without scouting occasionally since the 1.5 patch. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderon Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 It would make sense that if both use mechanics skill that you would be able to discover either (provided your skill was 4 levels higher than the trap or secrets setting) Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order Not all those that wander are lost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ink Blot Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I'll certainly defer to the in-game experience, as I've not played since the patch. But yeah, it still seems pointless to me. I mean it's great to be able to detect them out of Stealth mode, but if you'll likely still be in it all the time if you're at all interested in finding secrets (not to mention the traps you don't find out of Stealth mode will be deadlier to your party). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abaris Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Yeah I've detected secrets without scouting occasionally since the 1.5 patch. It doesn't work with all the secrets. It's entirely dependent on your mechanics skill. What you find without sneaking will be considerably lower than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amentep Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Yeah I've detected secrets without scouting occasionally since the 1.5 patch. It doesn't work with all the secrets. It's entirely dependent on your mechanics skill. What you find without sneaking will be considerably lower than that. Yes, that was mentioned already, I was just confirming that it happened in game for me. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manageri Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Yeah, so you still have to sneak around everywhere all the time to find all secrets, which rather defeats the whole point of the change. Really wish they'd see reason and just eliminate the detection crap from scouting mode entirely and have it just be stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightzy Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Like pretty much all design choices in POE, this too was a stupid one. Incompetent designers. It's as if they love themselves and their "system" more than they have any idea of what the player experience is 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorbag Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Yeah, so you still have to sneak around everywhere all the time to find all secrets, which rather defeats the whole point of the change. Really wish they'd see reason and just eliminate the detection crap from scouting mode entirely and have it just be stealth. Or you can bump up your Mechanics and roll with whatever you find, if you don't want to bother searching for secrets. It doesn't defeat the purpose of the change, the purpose is exactly to allow people who cba searching but have some Mechanics to find some stuff, while reserving other secrets for those who actually want to search for them. Like pretty much all design choices in POE, this too was a stupid one. Incompetent designers. It's as if they love themselves and their "system" more than they have any idea of what the player experience is Am I to understand that a smart design choice would be to have anything hidden light up like a Christmas tree the moment you step into the area? 1 Nothing gold can stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonarbill Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Like pretty much all design choices in POE, this too was a stupid one. Incompetent designers. It's as if they love themselves and their "system" more than they have any idea of what the player experience is I know you like to troll everybody about this game, but it actually makes sense for you to search and find hidden items in "Scouting Mode." In fact, a scouting mode for searching things something you see a lot in old school RPGs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abaris Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Like pretty much all design choices in POE, this too was a stupid one. Incompetent designers. It's as if they love themselves and their "system" more than they have any idea of what the player experience is Am I to assume you imagine yourself to be the sum of all players? Speak for yourself if you have to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horrorscope Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Depending on what you are after here... the iemod has a toggle that allows you to sneak at full speed. I also been wanting to state a big thank you to devs, during one of the updates they added "Party Member Finishes Ability" to the Pause options. This is the one that I haven't seen in a Pause based game prior that thought it always needed. Now any time a skill is complete, game pauses, in the combat log you can see who and then give them their next command. If you are doing the default attack it won't stop. (I could still see a sub option underneath this to stop even then for total turn base stoppage) A minor way to improve this feature would be to also put focus automatically on that character, then I wouldn't have to read the combat log and click that character to give the next command. One last Pause suggestion is for an option to stop action each time a PC loses 25% endurance, so at 75%, 50% and 25% it would pause to alert you. Currently it only can stop at "Low Endurance" if you have that option checked. I could see more steps in this to pause. The pause everytime a PC is hit, is a bit too agressive. But the Party Member Finishes Ability option, total total winner, as good as I've imagined it for 15 years. Much better control if you're not a real-time player or someone that likes to play it differently on different playthroughs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ink Blot Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Or you can bump up your Mechanics and roll with whatever you find, if you don't want to bother searching for secrets. It doesn't defeat the purpose of the change, the purpose is exactly to allow people who cba searching but have some Mechanics to find some stuff, while reserving other secrets for those who actually want to search for them. The problem, IMO, is that the only traps that are going to be an issue to your party are the ones that are less than 4 levels below your Mechanics skill - exactly the ones you need to have a chance to find. Which means you're going to have to be in Stealth mode anyway. I can certainly see your point, but I don't agree that it's of much use. However, if they separated finding secrets and traps from the Stealth mode, it would help a lot, I think. Tie it to Perception, with a bonus if you're in Stealth mode and possibly a further bonus for Mechanics (or maybe even Survival). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abaris Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I can certainly see your point, but I don't agree that it's of much use. However, if they separated finding secrets and traps from the Stealth mode, it would help a lot, I think. Tie it to Perception, with a bonus if you're in Stealth mode and possibly a further bonus for Mechanics (or maybe even Survival). Usually where there are traps, you're well advised to be in stealth anyway, since the game relies heavily on see before being seen. Sure, you can go in hung ho style, but at the lower levels it doesn't seem like the right approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunoValente Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 I also been wanting to state a big thank you to devs, during one of the updates they added "Party Member Finishes Ability" to the Pause options. This is the one that I haven't seen in a Pause based game prior that thought it always needed. Now any time a skill is complete, game pauses, in the combat log you can see who and then give them their next command. If you are doing the default attack it won't stop. (I could still see a sub option underneath this to stop even then for total turn base stoppage) Yes this is the best auto-pause option and one of the only ones I use, along with enemy and trap spotted, low health and knocked out. One more I would like added is pause after gunfire, given how slow gun reloads are, especially if I have character with guns in three inventory slots and want to switch after each shot or simply switch from gun to melee after the initial volley; pausing after sword or hunting bow attacks I'm not so interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manageri Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Yeah, so you still have to sneak around everywhere all the time to find all secrets, which rather defeats the whole point of the change. Really wish they'd see reason and just eliminate the detection crap from scouting mode entirely and have it just be stealth. Or you can bump up your Mechanics and roll with whatever you find, if you don't want to bother searching for secrets. It doesn't defeat the purpose of the change, the purpose is exactly to allow people who cba searching but have some Mechanics to find some stuff, while reserving other secrets for those who actually want to search for them. I do want to find secrets, everybody does. The issue is that this is accomplished, as everyone knows, by simply running around everywhere in scouting mode. Does this add anything challenging or interesting to the game whatsoever? No. It does nothing but waste YOUR time by slowing the party down. Does wasting player time for absolutely no reason sound like an awesome mechanic to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderon Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Yeah, so you still have to sneak around everywhere all the time to find all secrets, which rather defeats the whole point of the change. Really wish they'd see reason and just eliminate the detection crap from scouting mode entirely and have it just be stealth. Or you can bump up your Mechanics and roll with whatever you find, if you don't want to bother searching for secrets. It doesn't defeat the purpose of the change, the purpose is exactly to allow people who cba searching but have some Mechanics to find some stuff, while reserving other secrets for those who actually want to search for them. I do want to find secrets, everybody does. The issue is that this is accomplished, as everyone knows, by simply running around everywhere in scouting mode. Does this add anything challenging or interesting to the game whatsoever? No. It does nothing but waste YOUR time by slowing the party down. Does wasting player time for absolutely no reason sound like an awesome mechanic to you? Yes it's one of the damn role playing things - you know that you have to be moving slowly and paying close attention to see things that are HIDDEN specificly so that others don't see them normally. Why they would want to incorporate any role playing crap in a role playing game is of course anyones guess. 1 Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order Not all those that wander are lost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ink Blot Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Yes it's one of the damn role playing things - you know that you have to be moving slowly and paying close attention to see things that are HIDDEN specificly so that others don't see them normally. Why they would want to incorporate any role playing crap in a role playing game is of course anyones guess. Having the roleplaying option is fine. The implementation is highly questionable though, IMO. Wouldn't it be more logical (in game terms) and more roleplay-friendly if something like Perception governed your chance to find hidden objects? And wouldn't it be more believable roleplay if going slower just increased your chances of finding hidden objects, but moving at regular speed didn't actually preclude you from finding them? And perhaps one of the skills gives you a boost to your chances. To me that makes more sense than having it rely solely on Mechanics and stealth. Whatever, as noted, if you're a player that wants to find everything (or most things), you'll just be in Stealth mode all the time anyway and this game mechanics adjustment will be meaningless. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderon Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Yes it's one of the damn role playing things - you know that you have to be moving slowly and paying close attention to see things that are HIDDEN specificly so that others don't see them normally. Why they would want to incorporate any role playing crap in a role playing game is of course anyones guess. Having the roleplaying option is fine. The implementation is highly questionable though, IMO. Wouldn't it be more logical (in game terms) and more roleplay-friendly if something like Perception governed your chance to find hidden objects? And wouldn't it be more believable roleplay if going slower just increased your chances of finding hidden objects, but moving at regular speed didn't actually preclude you from finding them? And perhaps one of the skills gives you a boost to your chances. To me that makes more sense than having it rely solely on Mechanics and stealth. Whatever, as noted, if you're a player that wants to find everything (or most things), you'll just be in Stealth mode all the time anyway and this game mechanics adjustment will be meaningless. It's not meaningless it just doesn't apply to those who aren't playing in a such a manner that it comes into play. It still works for those who are not interested enough in what they find or don't find to stay in stealth in areas where something of use (or danger) may be hidden or those with a mechanic skill so high that they will find most things of significance anyway (and that suits them). It doesn't apply to me as I stealth almost constantly in any new area but I appreciate the fact that they took the time to implement it and give an option to those that will use it. 1 Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order Not all those that wander are lost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manageri Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Yes it's one of the damn role playing things - you know that you have to be moving slowly and paying close attention to see things that are HIDDEN specificly so that others don't see them normally. Why they would want to incorporate any role playing crap in a role playing game is of course anyones guess. YOU don't have to pay attention to a goddamn thing, the CHARACTERS do the spotting. all YOU do is press the "find all secrets kthx" button, which has no consequences whatsoever for the CHARACTERS when they're just randomly traipsing around town, it only wastes YOUR time. If you want an option for idiotic time wastes, go right ahead and make a mod that makes the character move 99.9% slower when in scouting mode for all I care. While you're at it wait 12 real hours when characters travel 12 hours on the map, such immerse/rp/MeaninglessBuzzWords wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View619 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 (edited) If you don't want to waste your time, scout in fast mode. If you want "immersion", don't use fast mode. Everybody wins. Edited May 27, 2015 by View619 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MunoValente Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Perhaps they could add "even faster mode" for scouting for secrets or traveling through already clear/safe areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abaris Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 YOU don't have to pay attention to a goddamn thing, the CHARACTERS do the spotting. all YOU do is press the "find all secrets kthx" button, which has no consequences whatsoever for the CHARACTERS when they're just randomly traipsing around town, it only wastes YOUR time. I'm rather tempted to call this a stupid comment, since by your logic, your characters based on their skills do the whole game. But let's just go with my usual comment when something like that crops up: If you don't like a feature, don't use it. Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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