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Walsingham

UK election special

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UK elections soon.

 

 

Quick brief to get everyone up to speed.

 

 

THE BRITISH PUBLIC

Incapable of understanding the concept of balancing income against expenditure. Unwilling to understand everything else.

 

CONSERVATIVES

Well educated forehead, apologetically leading Britain with no specific plan. Certain doom to follow, with reassuring accent.

 

LABOUR

Goggled-eyed student union activist, ready to give Britain whatever it wants, like a pathetic step-parent. certain doom to follow, with reassuring blame attached to fat men in top hats.

 

LIB-DEMS

World's tiredest trouser knees, torn between contempt and hope for the public it is desperately trying to spoon-feed. Like in that film. Will impart prosecco, elderflower, nuances to certain doom if part of coalition.

 

GREENS

Corduroy prophetess(?) of greater doom befalling nation. Billions will die, lakes of blood, drought, plagues of locusts. Manifesto emphasis: saving wetland animals and defying simple mathematics. True emphasis: passive-aggressive shoes.

 

SNP

Socialist nationalist party seeks ethnic re-awakening while blaming foreigners for all problems, during economic trouble. Seeks to unite Europe. Nothing worrying here at all.

 

EDIT:

 

UKIP

Sandworm president of local golf club seeks subsidised drinking privileges, shouting at foreigners. Certain feelings of inferiority, shame, and lust around foreigners; particularly shirtless Russians. Certain use of world map found on cornflakes packet ca. 1935. 

Edited by Walsingham
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"It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"."

             -Elwood Blues

 

tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.

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Which party is for strength, courage, truth, honor, freedom, vigor and perseverance?

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"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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None of them. I can't even begin to argue with Wals's excellent summary. Except to say be very afraid of our very own Tartan Hugo Chavez, Nicola Sturgeon.

 

I am going to draw an engorged phallus on my voting slip, and I've voted responsibly in every general election since I was of the age of majority. Right now I'm in an HL Mencken state of mind: Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

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Quite difficult for us to hear anything about the elections over the media losing its collective s*** over the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight.

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Quote
"Turned wrong way round, the relentless unforeseen was what we schoolchildren studied as 'History,' harmless history, where everything unexpected in its own time is chronicled on the page as inevitable. The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic.”

 

-Philip Roth, The Plot Against America

 

Quote
"Always write angry letters to your enemies. Never mail them."

 

-James Fallows

 

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I am interested in the various inevitable coalitions  that are going to happen after the official results as I don't see any single party getting an outright majority that won't require some kind of coalition, like what will the SNP ask for to become kingmakers? 

 

Very exciting either way 


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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None of them. I can't even begin to argue with Wals's excellent summary. Except to say be very afraid of our very own Tartan Hugo Chavez, Nicola Sturgeon.

 

I am going to draw an engorged phallus on my voting slip, and I've voted responsibly in every general election since I was of the age of majority. Right now I'm in an HL Mencken state of mind: Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

 

You can't be serious? Are you really  going to spoil your vote ....I never expected such political disobedience from you Monte, very surprised and disappointed  :ermm:  


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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OK, maybe I wasn't entirely accurate.

 

I'm also going to add an egregiously hairy nut-sack below the proud member.

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 Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.

 

You can always vote Pirate Party UK, as it at least sounds that you would do so 

 

 

 

EDIT:  :dancing:

Edited by Elerond

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OK, maybe I wasn't entirely accurate.

 

I'm also going to add an egregiously hairy nut-sack below the proud member.

 

I'm sure you will vote properly  when the time actually comes :)

 

 

 

Also some other UK related good news, Kate has given birth a little girl, nice one  :dancing:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/may/02/duchess-of-cambridge-gives-birth-to-baby-girl-prince-william


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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I am going to draw an engorged phallus on my voting slip

 

I hope you realize that you'll be committing sexual assault against the (female) election worker.

 

At least according to the definition advocated by modern college feminism... ;)


"Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them." -- attributed to George Orwell

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It's a depressing and worrisome fact that ones voting decision is still so torn at this late hour.


Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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It's a depressing and worrisome fact that ones voting decision is still so torn at this late hour.

 

It should be but they were saying on CNN that  40 % of the UK don't know who they will vote for, so you aren't alone. And there must be valid reason for such uncertainty 


"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

 

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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It's a depressing and worrisome fact that ones voting decision is still so torn at this late hour.

 

It should be but they were saying on CNN that  40 % of the UK don't know who they will vote for, so you aren't alone. And there must be valid reason for such uncertainty 

 

 

Yes, they are all merde.

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I'm just getting a loud buzzing noise in my left ear...

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This particularly rapid, unintelligible patter isn't generally heard, and if it is, it doesn't matter.

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Like Monte I'm contemptuous of the choices on offer. 

 

Perhaps like Monte I'm tempted to vote for the biggest ****hole because this is emphatically what the British public deserve for even pausing to listen to that sack of hairy oddments, Whosit Brand.


"It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"."

             -Elwood Blues

 

tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.

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Like Monte I'm contemptuous of the choices on offer. 

 

Perhaps like Monte I'm tempted to vote for the biggest ****hole because this is emphatically what the British public deserve for even pausing to listen to that sack of hairy oddments, Whosit Brand.

You're voting Labor then?


"Take your child murderin' god and shove his him up his own ass."-Volorun

 

"...the vote of a black redhead disabled homosexual transsexual Jew should probably be worth the same as at least a hundred white heterosexual Christians."-Rostere

 

"i can think of many women i would gladly sleep with, but not a single one that i would want as a girlfriend/wife... neither real nor fictional."-teknoman2

 

"I'm all for killing dogs in film." - algroth

 

"Iselmyr is the one who did GOMAD... Aloth is lactose intolerant" -ShadySands

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OK, on to the interesting stuff. What do you guys think of the FPP voting method and its impact on election results and feelings towards the British democracy in general?

 

Proportional voting methods tend to enable a plurality of parties (which makes it easier for everyone to vote for someone they agree with), compared to the current British situation which encourages two big parties - kind of similar to the US system for voting for Congress but not exactly as awful.

 

I would for sure feel hopeless if my voting system was rigged towards a non-proportional voter representation. Even more so if both the leaders of the big parties were twats.

 

Now even though the FPP system is rigged to enable strong governments it looks as if the only possible governments are either minority governments, unholy alliances or include the SNP. I guess the joke is on you, you get the worst of both worlds.


"Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!"

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OK, on to the interesting stuff. What do you guys think of the FPP voting method and its impact on election results and feelings towards the British democracy in general?

 

Proportional voting methods tend to enable a plurality of parties (which makes it easier for everyone to vote for someone they agree with), compared to the current British situation which encourages two big parties - kind of similar to the US system for voting for Congress but not exactly as awful.

 

I would for sure feel hopeless if my voting system was rigged towards a non-proportional voter representation. Even more so if both the leaders of the big parties were twats.

 

Now even though the FPP system is rigged to enable strong governments it looks as if the only possible governments are either minority governments, unholy alliances or include the SNP. I guess the joke is on you, you get the worst of both worlds.

 

All foreigners, and many Britishers get this totally wrong. The key point is that we don't actually need to vote for parties AT ALL. We vote for a person. Parties are supposed to form when the monarch asks a given person if they can form a government. The government doesn't even technically need to have the majority of MPs.

 

Hence what I'll end up doing is voting for the bugger I like, rather than the party they are in.


"It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"."

             -Elwood Blues

 

tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.

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OK, on to the interesting stuff. What do you guys think of the FPP voting method and its impact on election results and feelings towards the British democracy in general?

 

Proportional voting methods tend to enable a plurality of parties (which makes it easier for everyone to vote for someone they agree with), compared to the current British situation which encourages two big parties - kind of similar to the US system for voting for Congress but not exactly as awful.

 

I would for sure feel hopeless if my voting system was rigged towards a non-proportional voter representation. Even more so if both the leaders of the big parties were twats.

 

Now even though the FPP system is rigged to enable strong governments it looks as if the only possible governments are either minority governments, unholy alliances or include the SNP. I guess the joke is on you, you get the worst of both worlds.

 

All foreigners, and many Britishers get this totally wrong. The key point is that we don't actually need to vote for parties AT ALL. We vote for a person. Parties are supposed to form when the monarch asks a given person if they can form a government. The government doesn't even technically need to have the majority of MPs.

 

Hence what I'll end up doing is voting for the bugger I like, rather than the party they are in.

 

 

Sorry, in scando-land such a thing is incomprohensible, as we inhale socialism and exhale solidarity. Can this "person" you speak of have thoughts and form opinions of their own? Well, i never! Either you belong to a group or become shunned by all, that's what i say!

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"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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OK, on to the interesting stuff. What do you guys think of the FPP voting method and its impact on election results and feelings towards the British democracy in general?

 

Proportional voting methods tend to enable a plurality of parties (which makes it easier for everyone to vote for someone they agree with), compared to the current British situation which encourages two big parties - kind of similar to the US system for voting for Congress but not exactly as awful.

 

I would for sure feel hopeless if my voting system was rigged towards a non-proportional voter representation. Even more so if both the leaders of the big parties were twats.

 

Now even though the FPP system is rigged to enable strong governments it looks as if the only possible governments are either minority governments, unholy alliances or include the SNP. I guess the joke is on you, you get the worst of both worlds.

 

All foreigners, and many Britishers get this totally wrong. The key point is that we don't actually need to vote for parties AT ALL. We vote for a person. Parties are supposed to form when the monarch asks a given person if they can form a government. The government doesn't even technically need to have the majority of MPs.

 

Hence what I'll end up doing is voting for the bugger I like, rather than the party they are in.

 

 

Sorry, in scando-land such a thing is incomprohensible, as we inhale socialism and exhale solidarity. Can this "person" you speak of have thoughts and form opinions of their own? Well, i never! Either you belong to a group or become shunned by all, that's what i say!

 

 

You can vote person even in such scando-land systems, but because one person and form minority government/cabinet, but that is usually just waste of time, because one person don't have power in parliament of hundreds of people, so they need to create alliances (in other words parties) to get anything done and minority governments/cabinets have bad habit to fall soon as there is issue that MP in opposition don't like (we have had several minority cabinets that weren't very long-lasting). Although our voting system favors parties especially bigger parties because of usage of D'Hondt method.

 

In parliament votes parties can use issue party discipline, meaning demand to vote as party sees best instead of what individual MP sees best if there is discord in party by threatening its members with different punishments (closing them out from party's functions or in some case even by threating firing them from the party), which usually would make MPs in question job much harder (although not impossible  but rarely MPs go against them, at best they just don't vote), which is not necessary best way to do democratic politics, but such things are hard to prevent in any political systems that are based on cooperation between large number of people.  

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we inhale socialism and exhale solidarity. !

 

 

...Charlie Parker was my delight. ;)


"It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"."

             -Elwood Blues

 

tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.

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Perhaps like Monte I'm tempted to vote for the biggest ****hole because this is emphatically what the British public deserve for even pausing to listen to that sack of hairy oddments, Whosit Brand.

 

Hold up. Aren't you part of the British public?

 

Charles? Is that you?


- When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.

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FPP used to work. It has benefit of Governments being able to implement a manifesto without soggy compromises. It also stops the typical European dilemma, whereby a party small enough to fit on a sofa can hold up key legislation because they hold the balance of power.

 

This is the bit that *really* grips me about PR. A very small group, voted for by a minority, can hold key legislation hostage.

 

Anyhoo, FPP used to work in a two or even three party system. Neu Labour wrecked it by unleashing devolved parliaments in the Celtic fringe. Now we've Balkanised politics, and a broken boundary system where the Left get more seats and are able to form a government with a smaller share of the vote.

 

All in all, the current Westminster system is screwed.

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All foreigners, and many Britishers get this totally wrong. The key point is that we don't actually need to vote for parties AT ALL. We vote for a person.

 

But wouldn't you rather vote for an ideology, a set of political opinions? Everything I hear from Finland - where it's easier to vote for persons than in Sweden - is that people are angry because of hapless celebrities getting voted in. Name recognition goes further than anything else and apparently the typical guy is much more likely to vote for a sports star whose political ideas they have no idea of than a productive party functionary.

 

 

Parties are supposed to form when the monarch asks a given person if they can form a government. The government doesn't even technically need to have the majority of MPs.

 

Yeah, but I think this is the same across most democracies.

 

 

Hence what I'll end up doing is voting for the bugger I like, rather than the party they are in.

 

You should vote for the politics you believe in, not a person you think is a "bro". If everybody thought like you, you would have Jamie Oliver for prime minister.

 

Okay, I have literally no idea which celebrities are popular in Britain, but you get the point.

 

FPP used to work. It has benefit of Governments being able to implement a manifesto without soggy compromises. It also stops the typical European dilemma, whereby a party small enough to fit on a sofa can hold up key legislation because they hold the balance of power.

 

This is the bit that *really* grips me about PR. A very small group, voted for by a minority, can hold key legislation hostage.

 

But it's only ever a problem if the parties fail to make compromises.

 

Every coalition is based on a compromise which is agreed upon beforehand. If some party decides to leave the compromise, you either make a new compromise with some other party, or if that is not possible, then accordingly whatever you were trying to do does not have democratic support. It is simple as that really.

 

A small party holding up legislation is the equivalent of 51% of the population being against the legislation. Ergo, it is democratic and everything works as intended.

 

 

Anyhoo, FPP used to work in a two or even three party system. Neu Labour wrecked it by unleashing devolved parliaments in the Celtic fringe. Now we've Balkanised politics, and a broken boundary system where the Left get more seats and are able to form a government with a smaller share of the vote.

 

Yeah, I hear the current system has really helped the SNP.

 

Since FPP makes no effort at representing a proportional view of what people want in government, SNP can win by a small margin in every Scottish district and thus get 100% of the representation from Scotland. Now, the fact that they can do this depends of course on how the districts are drawn. Which bring us to gerrymandering, and you're in the realm of "gamey" and arbitrary US voting systems.

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"Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!"

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