1.05 (Beta) Changelog Discussion

[Bersercker]

Hm, isn't it like 1 focus per 4 damage without additional talents currently? Gonna see if thats indeed so when i get home.

 

Upd: Yep, i thought right. Its about 1 focus per 4 damage currently. So with this change fast weapons will become really bad at focus generation, so might as well not bother with them. Slow weapons will also suffer, since grazes would give almost nothing and cipher's accuracy is not the best to begin with, though +33% might compensate it somewhat. Along with decrease in starting focus: chanter v1.1 seems like an apt analogy.

 

 

If you aren't using dual-wield stilettos or a blunderbuss in 1.04, you are doing it wrong. With the 33% change of 1.05, finally you can use all weapons and generate a comparable amount of focus per second. They didn't nerf focus gain "all across the board". They balanced focus gain so that all weapons are equally viable.

I don't use blunderbuss because exploit. Hatchet with small shield and plate armor for more tankiness seems good enough.

Ofc i would have switched to greatsword or estoc if i were to install this patch.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Bersercker

[peddroelm]

they nerfed Marked Prey

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78239-abilities-various-other-damage-related-mechanics-revealed/?p=1685422

[mazeltov]

they nerfed Marked Prey

 

More like fixed it. The change to MP is noted in the patch's Items, Spells, and Abilities section.

[peddroelm]

 

they nerfed Marked Prey

 

More like fixed it. The change to MP is noted in the patch's Items, Spells, and Abilities section.

 

"..Marked Prey is now working at intended..."   .. Not sure it was a such warranted fix -> OSA was visibly broken on a scale that got people to notice it ..  Most people didn't use Marked Prey in 1.04 when it gave 40% bonus.   

[mazeltov]

"..Marked Prey is now working at intended..."   .. Not sure it was a such warranted fix -> OSA was visibly broken on a scale that got people to notice it ..  Most people didn't use Marked Prey in 1.04 when it gave 40% bonus.

 

Maybe it didn't warrant it from an overall balance perspective.

 

But the fact is that the ability was changed to reflect its intended functionality, and documented as such, not stealth nerfed as you claimed in the link to your tests.

[peddroelm]

 

"..Marked Prey is now working at intended..."   .. Not sure it was a such warranted fix -> OSA was visibly broken on a scale that got people to notice it ..  Most people didn't use Marked Prey in 1.04 when it gave 40% bonus.

 

Maybe it didn't warrant it from an overall balance perspective.

 

But the fact is that the ability was changed to reflect its intended functionality, and documented as such, not stealth nerfed as you claimed in the link to your tests.

 

Had the patch list said something specific like changed from 40% to 20% - then it would've been "documented" ..  (like they did for cipher ability - they listed the actual numbers)

Telling it works as intended ( and NOT as the previous and current in-game ability description says) means they did not specify what they changed .. 

 

Unspecified changes - stealth nerf .. 

 

They didn't use specific numbers for OSA either  (from flat + 20 * (1 + mightmod ) down to 20% additive damage mod) but it doesn't mean the same thing - OSA was obviously broken - and needed a fix  (they didn't alter a parameter - they changed the mechanic)  .. And 1.05 fixed OSA behavior matches its in-game skill description. You can thus infer what "working as designed" means for that ability .. 1.05 Marked Prey's description claims it should add flat +20 damage per projectile .. If that description is to be believed 1.05 marked prey is still not working as designed .. If that description is false - then we have no idea on what "working as designed" is supposed to mean for that ability ..

Edited May 6, 2015 by peddroelm

[mazeltov]

1.05 Marked Prey's description claims it should add flat +20 damage per projectile .. If that description is to be believed

 

 

 

The lengths people will go to...

 

 

Unspecified changes - stealth nerf .. 

 

Most of the patch notes dealing with ability changes don't list specific numbers, changes to formulas, etc. A vague change is announced, and players often have to go in and find the hard numbers themselves. But because a change was announced, that change cannot then be called stealthy. Just because you don't agree with the change, or found out upon testing that your preconceived notions about what the change would or should entail turned out to be wrong, does not make the change stealthy.

 

In this case a change you claimed is a stealth nerf is neither stealthy, nor a nerf. It's a fix to the functionality of an ability that was found to be working improperly by the devs. Not only was it not nerfed, it was actually buffed, due to its also non-stealthily announced cast speed increase.

 

In the end the only non-'balance feelings' beef left is with the ingame description, perceived to not match the actual effects. Could it use a percent sign after the +20, or an "x1.2 damage" construction or whatever as some other abilities use, for clarity? Sure it could.

[peddroelm]

@ mazeltov - to understand where I'm coming from: I've been playing full melee parties in pillars of eternity ( fighter, paladin, barbarian, monk, ranger, rogue) exclusively .  The ranger has always felt "the odd man out" .. His combat performance threatened even by the fighter that has 3 tanking talents .. 

 

So nerfing the ranger of all things for "balance reasons" was a bit surprising and disappointing  to me.. Makes one doubt their balance team ability to do their job .. On what criteria are their balance changes based on ? 

 

IMO the little bump in cast speed does not compensate for the massive damage reduction it received .

 

////

If you were to make a community poll on what class/ability deserves "re-balancing" - my money would be that Ranger's and their animal companions (talents) would be pretty high on that list - not for nerfing, but for getting some buffs .. 

Edited May 7, 2015 by peddroelm

[the streaker]

The hell? Who's going to bother even choosing an ability like marked prey that gives 20% lash damage vs. 25% DR, and on top of that, lash damage does not take into account DR bypass on a weapon or through special abilities?

 

What a useless skill now, not even worth taking. At least at 40% for a once-per-encounter skill is something you can look forward to. I guess rangers are now limited to a couple of wounding shots followed by watching the combat log for damage numbers...

Edited May 7, 2015 by the streaker

[peddroelm]

I wouldn't go as far as calling it  "not worth taking" mostly because of the lack of alternatives (for a melee ranger) .. After testing the animal companion damage boosting perks I find them even less worthwhile ..  

Edited May 7, 2015 by peddroelm

[peddroelm]

new beta patch update 1.0.5.0565

 

marked prey test vs gul (0 DR)

20.4 + 8.1     ( 40% )  ?!!?

 

- are they messing with the value between various versions of the beta patches ? (not likely )

- is the ability behaving inconsistently ?

- measuring error from my part ?

 

 

1.0.5.0567

23.6 * 0.4 - 18 * 0.25 == 4.9 still at 40%

Edited May 7, 2015 by peddroelm

[Cluas]

two patches in one day

[Bix Copperblast]

Still no weapons balancing? I want to use bows but ATM they are completely outclassed by guns and crossbows.

[Horrorscope]

Excellent patch. However, loading times are still an issue. Why is this still an issue?

 

Also, when does this go live?

 

That is my #1 and #2 issues, load times.

[peddroelm]

think I've managed to figure out what's with Marked Prey's inconsistent test results  ..

 

New 1.05.0.567 game

Made solo ranger attacks and combined (ranger + Animal companion vs marked target) ( considered they might be splitting the bonus when attacking same target) .. Invariably the bonus was 20%

 

14.2  (4 DR) 1.8 // 14.2 * 0.2 - 4 * 0.25 = 1.84

14.6  (4 DR) 1.9 // 14.6 * 0.2 - 4 * 0.25 = 1.92

15.8  (4 DR) 2.2 // 15.8 * 0.2 - 4 * 0.25 = 2.16

 7.8   (4 DR) 0.6 // 7.8 * 0.2 - 4 * 0.25 = 0.56

10.6  (4 DR) 1.1 // 10.6 * 0.2 - 4 * 0.25 = 1.12

 

Then I loaded an older save - game started before 1.05

 

23.7 (4 DR) 8.5    // 23.7 * 0.4 - 4 * 0.25 = 8.48

40%

 

Mystery solved . Marked Prey's nerf from 40% to 20%  isn't savegame retroactive ..

Edited May 8, 2015 by peddroelm

[Carados]

Well for many cipher players this patch means patching a bit of fun out of PoE. It is FUN to able to disable bunch of dudes with your mental power right from the begining.  Now I guess i will have to adjust to new meta, but what is my cipher going to do when combat starts? He must gain focus to be worthwhile and since most fights are over quite fast, am i even going to be using those high level mental powers anymore? Since i'm doing melee focused build, this changes the game quite a bit..

 

And since I dont' want only to complain, I'll make some suggestions as well.

 

1. Ranger class is an odd thing. I quess he is quite okey with ranged weapons, but ranger in D&D was so much more. You could make him a close combat specialist or a ranged combatant. He had all kinds of cool spells too and he could choose a racial enemy etc.

 

And animal companions kind of suck to be honest.  I quess I'm saying here that rangers aren't that intresting.

 

2. Druid animal form? Like in every video game i've seen. Shapeshifting to an animal form is fun for few early levels, then it becomes a trash ability. Just like animal companions by the way.

 

3.  I get that that some of the more powerfull abilities need to be per rest only because otherwise we would have druids&wizzards spamming high level spells constantly, but there are quite many modestly powerfull abilities like the warrior class ability called "clear out". Why isn't this encounter ability?  I think if more abilities were per encounter, it would actually make want to play longer without resting (and healing).  I'd rather take 1 clear out per encounter than 2 clear outs per rest.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Carados

[xuerebx]

The only things that really stands out is the nerf to Cipher focus, the fact that we can name saves, and the utterly crazy way they keep dealing with attributes for CNPC:s. The rest is pretty meh overall. I was expecting some more meaningful balance changes and usability tweaks such as finally differentiating between allies and neutral NPC:s, and toggleable and addable mapnotes.

 

 

 

 

• Added a new color for unique items in the inventory.

 

Now we're even getting colour-coded for stupid?

 

 

What does that have to do with 'stupid'? It's just convenience. Usually I had to mouse-over 3+ pages of items in my stash while selling after a big dungeon/longer time, because I didn't want to sell any unique items. Now this whole process is sped up a lot.

 

But how is Draining Whip now working as intended? Doesn't it apply on Blunderbuss projectiles anymore? Or what happened?

 

Great overall fixes/balance changes

 

 

"It's just convenience" has been the argument for many of the baby-steps to mediocrity. Dividing things into sharp lines of "uniques" and "magicals" and "rares" is the tradition of immersionless games centred on lootwhoring, not RPG:s. PoE already suffers from itemization issues of gear not feeling special, and now the "uniques" gets lumped into a shared subgroup, that is colour-coded for stupid.

 

What a load of hogwash. It's convenient and that's the end of it.

 

If you really think being smart has anything to do with playing video games you're sorely mistaken.

[Luckmann]

 

The only things that really stands out is the nerf to Cipher focus, the fact that we can name saves, and the utterly crazy way they keep dealing with attributes for CNPC:s. The rest is pretty meh overall. I was expecting some more meaningful balance changes and usability tweaks such as finally differentiating between allies and neutral NPC:s, and toggleable and addable mapnotes.

 

 

 

 

• Added a new color for unique items in the inventory.

 

Now we're even getting colour-coded for stupid?

 

 

What does that have to do with 'stupid'? It's just convenience. Usually I had to mouse-over 3+ pages of items in my stash while selling after a big dungeon/longer time, because I didn't want to sell any unique items. Now this whole process is sped up a lot.

 

But how is Draining Whip now working as intended? Doesn't it apply on Blunderbuss projectiles anymore? Or what happened?

 

Great overall fixes/balance changes

 

 

"It's just convenience" has been the argument for many of the baby-steps to mediocrity. Dividing things into sharp lines of "uniques" and "magicals" and "rares" is the tradition of immersionless games centred on lootwhoring, not RPG:s. PoE already suffers from itemization issues of gear not feeling special, and now the "uniques" gets lumped into a shared subgroup, that is colour-coded for stupid.

 

What a load of hogwash. It's convenient and that's the end of it.

 

If you really think being smart has anything to do with playing video games you're sorely mistaken.

 

 

You honestly think that being "smart" doesn't have anything to do with playing video games, how you you play video games and what video games you play, you are sorely mistaken. Not to say unintelligent, which is a bigger issue than whether someone is smart or not.

 

And saying that convenience is just convenience and that's the end of it is, if anything, hogwash. Convenience-based changes have a tendency to water down gameplay and interact degeneratively with other "convenience" features. A game is more than the sum of it's parts.

[Jojobobo]

Back to the actual changelog, I was very worried the quest XP rebalancing doesn't seem to have affected early levels too much. Whilst this may lead to a weird feeling of level progression (fast, then very slow) it works very nicely for solo play or I'd imagine any play (the first few levels seem much more crucial in cementing a build rather than later ones). Kudos for the developers factoring all this in and making a leveling scheme that, whilst not necessarily linear, works like a treat within the scope of the game (this is assuming people don't still hit level 12 easily before Twin Elms, I haven't progressed that far but I assume their not telling me porkies).

 

I approve of the all the rebalance changes I've heard of so far, a good effort.

[Hassat Hunter]

You didn't have a hand in this, did you (just in case : I'm kidding)?

Wrong link?

I assume you were going to link the petition for it, which yes, there's a large thread, probably 30+ pages by now in the depths of these forums.

What were you expecting?

More fixes, more balancing... I guess... a much larger patchlog than this.

 

Though if this is a big changelog things seem very well for PoE as far as bugless RPG releases go. 

No walk toggle, no patch until IE mod upgrades its version.

Funnily enough, I can't image walking rather than running... that's like not using Speed in KOTOR2; Unbearable.

 

And I recall D:OS arguments well, people often complain a lot more about moving slowly than moving too fast.

[luzarius]

THANK YOU FOR LETTING US RE-SPEC COMPANIONS *HUGS* :)

THANK YOU FOR LETTING US RE-SPEC COMPANIONS *HUGS* :)

THANK YOU FOR LETTING US RE-SPEC COMPANIONS *HUGS* :)

 

However, the companion stats weren't bad to begin with, they were pretty normal compared to other companion stats in other games.

 

But letting us re-spec them just makes the game that much more fun.

Edited May 9, 2015 by luzarius

[Malignacious]

You can now change the portrait and sound set of characters from the character sheet. Click on the gear icon to open the customization window. 

 

Jesus, what a horrible, unnecessary feature. Just the existence of it degrades the player immersion.

[Silent Winter]

 

You can now change the portrait and sound set of characters from the character sheet. Click on the gear icon to open the customization window. 

 

Jesus, what a horrible, unnecessary feature. Just the existence of it degrades the player immersion.

 

I wouldn't go that far, but I don't want the gear icon on the portrait - is it always there or just on mouseover? (not got the patch to install yet)

[luzarius]

 

You can now change the portrait and sound set of characters from the character sheet. Click on the gear icon to open the customization window. 

 

Jesus, what a horrible, unnecessary feature. Just the existence of it degrades the player immersion.

 

 

I think that's only regards to custom made companions right?

 

Hypothetically you can change the current companions portraits without any kind of patch and make them look exactly like their 3d counterparts.

 

THANK YOU FOR THE WEAPON SWAP HOTKEY, IT"S BOUND TO MY MOUSE, IT"S SO EASY TO SWITCH WEAPONS NOW, THX

Edited May 9, 2015 by luzarius

[View619]

 

You can now change the portrait and sound set of characters from the character sheet. Click on the gear icon to open the customization window. 

 

Jesus, what a horrible, unnecessary feature. Just the existence of it degrades the player immersion.

 

 

It's probably there in case players find an amazing picture that they want to use for their characters without being required to restart a game.

 

If it breaks your immersion then ignore it, it's not staring you in the face. Before this patch I could "degrade my immersion" by opening the Pillars_Data/Portrait folder, this is just an optional convenience feature.

Edited May 9, 2015 by View619