Bruce Jenner "comes out" as female...

[Fighter]

 

She's the closest thing the second wave of feminism had to a leader and is still highly influential. No offense, but we've had conversations on feminism in other threads, so it seems like you would have some fairly basic knowledge about it.

 

Was she ever relevant to any of the specific things we were discussing?

 

Also:

 

<-------------------

 

Your point?

Edited April 26, 2015 by Fighter

[Blarghagh]

Suffice it to say that I'm aware of the world beyond the US.

[Fighter]

It was rhetorical since she is an American figure.

[Malcador]

She's the closest thing the second wave of feminism had to a leader and is still highly influential. No offense, but we've had conversations on feminism in other threads, so it seems like you would have some fairly basic knowledge about it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also:

 

<-------------------

Don't think anyone really has brought her up, though and she hasn't offered anything relevant directly to the threads on feminism, mainly GG stuff, so doesn't seem as obvious as one to know her as say, Sarkeesian.

 

I guess you will take a stab at him for not researching feminism?

[Volourn]

"Here is something that may shock you. There is a world beyond America and some of us were born there. Where your political activists don't really matter to anyone."
 

So.. you admit to being ignorant. Why? Because when an Amerikan is found not to know something about another country they are mocked for being ignorant. Why the double standard>

[Blarghagh]

Research is neccesary to know about Gloria Steinem? As far as I'm concerned, Gloria Steinem is common knowledge. There's a roadway named after her in my rural dutch hometown, right next to a roadway named after Martin Luther King seperated by a roundabout named after Ghandi.

[Valsuelm]

There's a roadway named after her in my rural dutch hometown, right next to a roadway named after Martin Luther King seperated by a roundabout named after Ghandi.

Seriously?

 

Please provide a google maps (or similar) link.

 

This I gotta see.

[Malcador]

Well, surprisingly not everyone is like you. So barring one having monuments to her in your country or some sort of obvious reminder of her, is not weird to see someone who has not heard of her.

 

Funny I heard of her first fron All in the Family.

[BruceVC]

 

She's the closest thing the second wave of feminism had to a leader and is still highly influential. No offense, but we've had conversations on feminism in other threads, so it seems like you would have some fairly basic knowledge about it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also:

 

<-------------------

Don't think anyone really has brought her up, though and she hasn't offered anything relevant directly to the threads on feminism, mainly GG stuff, so doesn't seem as obvious as one to know her as say, Sarkeesian.

 

I guess you will take a stab at him for not researching feminism?

 

 

 

She's the closest thing the second wave of feminism had to a leader and is still highly influential. No offense, but we've had conversations on feminism in other threads, so it seems like you would have some fairly basic knowledge about it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also:

 

<-------------------

Don't think anyone really has brought her up, though and she hasn't offered anything relevant directly to the threads on feminism, mainly GG stuff, so doesn't seem as obvious as one to know her as say, Sarkeesian.

 

I guess you will take a stab at him for not researching feminism?

 

 

Malc lets not be silly, of course Fighter should have known who she was...and I don't mean he should have known automatically who she was. I didn't know but I used Google....we are all very much involved on a daily basis with criticizing or supporting the USA so lets not forget how we can actually use  something as quick as a browser to find who certain Americans are and how they are relevant to a debate

 

Fighter is a bright guy and knows this, but he was lazy and got called out. It is normal to get called out for these types of things 

[Hurlshort]

Considering how active Fighter is in all these conversations, including the Feminism thread, it was a surprise.  But hey, he went and looked her up, so I applaud that and I think it will strengthen his perspective moving forward.  Historical context is important.  

[Malcador]

He did google her though after not knowing who she was. I guess he should not have admitted it first? Heh.

 

But whatever, you lot got digs in

Edited April 26, 2015 by Malcador

[PrimeJunta]

Hey, it's the Internet. Since when did not knowing a damn thing about a subject stop anyone from arguing furiously about it?

[Blarghagh]

Malc, you're obviously just being a contrarian on purpose here. My point was not to illustrate that I heard about her because of that, because I did not. The only reason I remember it existing is because I knew who she was already, not the other way around. My point was that she is simply that well known. She was mentioned in my school's (not American) history book when talking about the 70s along with Vietnam and the hippies. She's consistently mentioned in popular culture, from All in the Family to the most recent mention I heard being last month in one of the last episodes of Parcs and Recreation.

 

I don't actually have an issue with him not knowing, since nobody can know everything, but making grandstanding statements about "pshuh, arrogant americans thinking everything revolves around you" is extremely disingenuous considering how well-known she is. Especially considering I'm the one who brought her up in the first place. If you haven't at least heard of Gloria Steinem, you really don't know anything about feminism. Which is why it makes sense that Bruce doesn't know her.

 

 

There's a roadway named after her in my rural dutch hometown, right next to a roadway named after Martin Luther King seperated by a roundabout named after Ghandi.

Seriously?

 

Please provide a google maps (or similar) link.

 

This I gotta see.

 

 

Pass. I did make a mistake, she's the roundabout that seperates MLK and Ghandi. Our word for road is weg. If you want to put in the effort to search it up for yourself, go ahead, but posting a link to my hometown gets a bit too personal on the internet for me. I've no interest in giving GG or especially their opponents more information about me so they can contact my employers and try to get me fired.

[Orogun01]

Research is neccesary to know about Gloria Steinem? As far as I'm concerned, Gloria Steinem is common knowledge. There's a roadway named after her in my rural dutch hometown, right next to a roadway named after Martin Luther King seperated by a roundabout named after Ghandi.

A picture might help

[Meshugger]

Third here.

 

And i have been in and hanging out for years in academia But anyway, i haven't heard of her at all before.

[Malcador]

Hey, it's the Internet. Since when did not knowing a damn thing about a subject stop anyone from arguing furiously about it?

It is just people. Not like this happens differently offline. Maybe more punching though.

[Blarghagh]

Holy hell, where did you people get educated? This is high school level history!

[Meshugger]

Holy hell, where did you people get educated? This is high school level history!

 

Feminism wasn't taught in any history class i've been to and i was an history buff that took extra classes in high school. The last classes of post-WWII history focused on the cold war, korea war, berlin wall, vietnam war and counter culture (hippies!) and the space race.

 

I then continued in the STEM field.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Meshugger

[Malcador]

Malc, you're obviously just being a contrarian on purpose here. My point was not to illustrate that I heard about her because of that, because I did not. The only reason I remember it existing is because I knew who she was already, not the other way around. My point was that she is simply that well known. She was mentioned in my school's (not American) history book when talking about the 70s along with Vietnam and the hippies. She's consistently mentioned in popular culture, from All in the Family to the most recent mention I heard being last month in one of the last episodes of Parcs and Recreation.

 

I don't actually have an issue with him not knowing, since nobody can know everything, but making grandstanding statements about "pshuh, arrogant americans thinking everything revolves around you" is extremely disingenuous considering how well-known she is. Especially considering I'm the one who brought her up in the first place. If you haven't at least heard of Gloria Steinem, you really don't know anything about feminism. Which is why it makes sense that Bruce doesn't know her.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's a roadway named after her in my rural dutch hometown, right next to a roadway named after Martin Luther King seperated by a roundabout named after Ghandi.

Seriously?

 

Please provide a google maps (or similar) link.

 

This I gotta see.

Pass. I did make a mistake, she's the roundabout that seperates MLK and Ghandi. Our word for road is weg. If you want to put in the effort to search it up for yourself, go ahead, but posting a link to my hometown gets a bit too personal on the internet for me. I've no interest in giving GG or especially their opponents more information about me so they can contact my employers and try to get me fired.

Yeah that must be it, I can't think otherwise just as I do. You assume she is common knowledge around the world which does not seem likely when thinking on it, and then base that on your experience. As for his remark, heh, you really can't see why that counterblow was tried?

[Fighter]

Hey, it's the Internet. Since when did not knowing a damn thing about a subject stop anyone from arguing furiously about it?

 

Hey it's the Internet. People snipe with snide remarks in a game of gotcha over knowledge of no direct practical relevance.

[Malcador]

Holy hell, where did you people get educated? This is high school level history!

It is? We learned Canadian boring history and then stuff like Ancient Civ and then Western history from 1700 to 1914 or so. Not much on social stuff though, in grand sum of things.

 

I guess they focused on more interesting topics ?

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Holy hell, where did you people get educated? This is high school level history!

 

In all fairness, I'm not especially acquainted with her body of work either. Heard the name, but that's pretty much it.

[Blarghagh]

Not even a mention?

 

 

Holy hell, where did you people get educated? This is high school level history!

 

Feminism wasn't taught in any history class i've been to. 

 

 

It wasn't specifically that feminism was taught, the women's liberation movement was just covered as one of the many things characterizing hippies, civil rights movements and the 70's in general. (Oh yeah, Donna from That 70's Show also mentioned her pretty often to the point it became annoying).

 

EDIT: I guess it could just be because my history book put much more time into the failures of the US such as Vietnam and the culture surrounding it? I guess across the ocean they prefer not to give Vietnam that much attention.

Edited April 26, 2015 by TrueNeutral

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Hey, it's the Internet. Since when did not knowing a damn thing about a subject stop anyone from arguing furiously about it?

 

Hey it's the Internet. People snipe with snide remarks in a game of gotcha over knowledge of no direct practical relevance.

 

 

I'd argue that knowing who certain influential feminist thinkers were does constitute as knowledge of direct (if not practical) relevance in a discussion about feminism, but ah well.

[Blarghagh]

I'm seriously confused now. I have never mentioned Gloria Steinem and been met with a chorus of "who is that" and this is generally one of the smarter, more informed message boards I frequent.