Journalism and Bias in the Gaming Industry

[Oerwinde]

I'm curious about this "Woman in a refrigerator" trope, and I couldn't think of a better place to ask a few questions:

Why is it just not called revenge as it used to be?

Is affection for a loved one now a negative thing?

Is apathy desirable?

Is it only women whom can be in this metaphorical refrigerator, if it is a man, a ghost or anything else is that alright?

Does this strike anyone as a slightly desperate try to justify a trope?

Why is this demeaning, are the victims supposed to be invulnerable and uncared for for some reason?

It was named by Gail Simone in reference to Kyle Raynor's(Green Lantern) girlfriend being killed and left in the refridgerator for him to find. She felt female supporting characters were misproportionately killed off violently to give male characters motivation to fight the villain as opposed to male characters. This was a good point as Uncle Ben and Jason Todd are the only examples of this I can think of. It has been adopted by SJWs however to mean any time a female character is killed.

[Volourn]

"It was named by Gail Simone in reference to Kyle Raynor's(Green Lantern) girlfriend being killed and left in the refridgerator for him to find. She felt female supporting characters were misproportionately killed off violently to give male characters motivation to fight the villain as opposed to male characters. This was a good point as Uncle Ben and Jason Todd are the only examples of this I can think of. It has been adopted by SJWs however to mean any time a female character is killed."

 

1. There's certainly more examples of male characters dying to give the protaginist dram/motivation than just those two. How many times in cop movies does one of the cops have a former partner who is murdered and the entire plot is centered around that. Beverly Hills Cop 1 was built around that entire premise. Same with father dies/is killed, and son (or even duaghter) tries to find out who killed them.  So, in essence, the reference is basically bullcrap.

 

2.  People don't care if males die.  Because mena re just sperm  and cash despensers. When a guy dies/is killed most people just shrug (unless for SJWs reasons). It's why men have the highest rate of sucide but  nobody cares about because they're just men. *shrug*

Edited May 1, 2015 by Volourn

[Fighter]

You know why it's more often the woman in that role? Because hurting a woman is instinctively inexcusable.

[Nonek]

So is Patroclus the body in Achille's cold cellar (?) in the Iliad, or does that not fit? It still sounds like a very desperate attempt to leverage a trope here out of a classical revenge motivation, though I admit that I didn't read many American comics as a child, well almost none at all.

 

Edit: In roleplaying games it usually seems to be a mentor or father/mother figure that serves as this revenge motivating figure.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Nonek

[Orogun01]

So is Patroclus the body in Achille's cold cellar (?) in the Iliad, or does that not fit? It still sounds like a very desperate attempt to leverage a trope here out of a classical revenge motivation, though I admit that I didn't read many American comics as a child, well almost none at all.

 

Edit: In roleplaying games it usually seems to be a mentor or father/mother figure that serves as this revenge motivating figure.

Death of a loved one and revenge are powerful motivators in literature and good devices to move the story forward, a narrow view of it is the "woman in refrigerator" trope (Quite frankly I regard tropes as narrow views on plot devices that are distilled into bites of pop folklore)

The reason a lot of women are killed to motivate the protagonist is that a lot of the protagonist are heterosexual men. As they don't seem bothered when it happens to men I believe the real cause of their grievance has more to do with gender rather than with the act itself.

[Oerwinde]

So is Patroclus the body in Achille's cold cellar (?) in the Iliad, or does that not fit? It still sounds like a very desperate attempt to leverage a trope here out of a classical revenge motivation, though I admit that I didn't read many American comics as a child, well almost none at all.

 

Edit: In roleplaying games it usually seems to be a mentor or father/mother figure that serves as this revenge motivating figure.

The trope was originally specific to comics, which is why it gets so much backlash now that its used so much outside of comics, because there are a lot more contrary examples.

[BruceVC]

You know why it's more often the woman in that role? Because hurting a woman is instinctively inexcusable.

I agree with this on certain levels, the same would apply to children. Is this a bad thing? I don't think so and the main reason I would say this is because in RL women are primarily the victim of horrendous abuse and violence both physically and mentally..so we are much more aware of violence against them and react accordingly.

[Volourn]

"I would say this is because in RL women are primarily the victim of horrendous abuse and violence both physically and mentally."

 

No, they aren't. Stop spreading lie.

[ravenshrike]

 

You know why it's more often the woman in that role? Because hurting a woman is instinctively inexcusable.

I agree with this on certain levels, the same would apply to children. Is this a bad thing? I don't think so and the main reason I would say this is because in RL women are primarily the victim of horrendous abuse and violence both physically and mentally..so we are much more aware of violence against them and react accordingly.

 

Except actual studies of abuse have shown that men are just as likely to be abused, both physically and emotionally. The difference is that A) men are much more reticent to discuss such abuse and B) Physically they are both more capable of resisting the effects of abuse and stronger so the amount of damage they do is greater. Honestly the idea that women are the fairer sex is a bunch of bull****. when you get right down to it.

[Volourn]

http://41.media.tumblr.com/b130eb4fcbfe34b731a8af9d7fffd1b1/tumblr_mr09m2H2wc1s5x9zjo1_1280.jpg

[BruceVC]

 

 

You know why it's more often the woman in that role? Because hurting a woman is instinctively inexcusable.

I agree with this on certain levels, the same would apply to children. Is this a bad thing? I don't think so and the main reason I would say this is because in RL women are primarily the victim of horrendous abuse and violence both physically and mentally..so we are much more aware of violence against them and react accordingly.

 

Except actual studies of abuse have shown that men are just as likely to be abused, both physically and emotionally. The difference is that A) men are much more reticent to discuss such abuse and B) Physically they are both more capable of resisting the effects of abuse and stronger so the amount of damage they do is greater. Honestly the idea that women are the fairer sex is a bunch of bull****. when you get right down to it.

 

 

I question any study that says in society men are victims of the same type of abuse by women that women are subjected to by men. I see this type of perspective as a distraction and a way to diminish the real victims of abuse in society which are women and children. And yes women are still the fairer sex I would say 

[Volourn]

The fairer sex? yeah, so fair, they mass murder their children. LMAO

 

Face it dude,  men are assaulted, abused, and victimized as much if not more than women ESPICIALLY by society. This is fact that delusional SJWs and feminists want to  pretend isn't fact but your FEELS doesn't change the fact.

 

Suicide rate, inprisonment rate,  custody rates,  crime victim rate, etc.,e tc. all proves you are full of baloney.

 

 

Then again, you prove agaian and again you don't care about people with a ****. That is sexism. Why are you full of such self hatred?

Edited May 2, 2015 by Volourn

[BruceVC]

The fairer sex? yeah, so fair, they mass murder their children. LMAO

 

Face it dude,  men are assaulted, abused, and victimized as much if not more than women ESPICIALLY by society. This is fact that delusional SJWs and feminists want to  pretend isn't fact but your FEELS doesn't change the fact.

 

Suicide rate, inprisonment rate,  custody rates,  crime victim rate, etc.,e tc. all proves you are full of baloney.

 

 

Then again, you prove agaian and again you don't care about people with a ****. That is sexism. Why are you full of such self hatred?

 

I do care about the abuse of men, I just don't see the problem as prevalent as what women are subjected to. Its not hard to understand this perspective and I find it hard to believe that you see the abuse of women and men as equally widespread? You can't really think this?

[Zoraptor]

Bomb threat at the GG meet up apparently, with the po-pos in attendance. Which falls perfectly between lol and wtf.

 

It still sounds like a very desperate attempt to leverage a trope here out of a classical revenge motivation, though I admit that I didn't read many American comics as a child, well almost none at all.

 

I'd say that it is a 'legitimate' trope, even if it is often misused as a term. There are plenty of things that don't fit the trope, but there sure are whole lot that do as well, at least so far as treating the woman as a disposable item whose purpose is solely to motivate someone else. When it comes right down to it a trope is just a classification system for the blocks out of which stories are built, whether you see it as just building a revenge motive or as a pseudo misogynist cliché depends entirely on perspective.

[Volourn]

"I do care about the abuse of men, I just don't see the problem as prevalent as what women are subjected to. Its not hard to understand this perspective and I find it hard to believe that you see the abuse of women and men as equally widespread? You can't really think this?"

 

L0L

 

 

"I'd say that it is a 'legitimate' trope, even if it is often misused as a term. There are plenty of things that don't fit the trope, but there sure are whole lot that do as well, at least so far as treating the woman as a disposable item whose purpose is solely to motivate someone else. When it comes right down to it a trope is just a classification system for the blocks out of which stories are built, whether you see it as just building a revenge motive or as a pseudo misogynist cliché depends entirely on perspective."

 

The oproblem with this line of reasoning is that it's not just women characters who are used like this. Male characters are used  like that as well. It has very little to do with sexism. At least not hateful 'i hate women' sexism.TONS of examples of males being used in the same manner. *shrug*

[Fighter]

I agree with this on certain levels, the same would apply to children. Is this a bad thing? I don't think so and the main reason I would say this is because in RL women are primarily the victim of horrendous abuse and violence both physically and mentally..so we are much more aware of violence against them and react accordingly.

 

No. Men are more than 3 times more likely to be victims of murder.

 

It's a warped logic.

 

Edited May 2, 2015 by Fighter

[Meshugger]

Things went after all quite well in DC:

 

 

 

...of course not. This is what happened:

 

Edited May 2, 2015 by Meshugger

[kirottu]

Bomb threat... now that is a new low for the anti-GG people. I wonder how many journalists are going to report on bomb threat against GamerGate? I wonder how their narrative on how GamerGate is the hate group is going to take this? 

[Ineth]

You know why it's more often the woman in that role? Because hurting a woman is instinctively inexcusable.

 

Yeah.

 

Contrary to what one might expect if Patriarchy Theory were true, Western society treats violence against men as socially acceptable, but violence against women as a cardinal sin.

 

That's why a murdered female character is a much more powerful plot device than a murdered male character, and thus unsurprisingly more compelling to authors.

[Nonek]

 

I agree with this on certain levels, the same would apply to children. Is this a bad thing? I don't think so and the main reason I would say this is because in RL women are primarily the victim of horrendous abuse and violence both physically and mentally..so we are much more aware of violence against them and react accordingly.

 

No. Men are more than 3 times more likely to be victims of murder.

 

It's a warped logic.

 

 

 

The masive rates of suicide amongst young males are also often glossed over, along with the disproportianately higher rates of violence against and amongst men, but then again this does not fit the narrative that only women are victims and so is safely ignored.

 

The Hilary Clinton quote is disgusting, one thinks of the approximately eight hundred and eighty thouand men whom served and died in the first world war, sitting in flooded trenches watching the bodies of their friends drift by in the water, and knowing that when the whistle blows they will be mowed down in a similar fashion and lose everything they ever had or might have. Tolkien a stoic and reserved Englishman if there ever was one shows how deeply this affected him in his writing on the Dead Marshes, and perhaps why he along with many others chose to pursue escapism after their service. This shouldn't be devalued by a politician trying to play a victim card and slander the real victims who fought and died for the world. Still it is her right to state these lies.

[Blarghagh]

Wait, so women suffer in war because they lose the men in their lives? That sounds remarkably like her worth is intrinsically tied to what men she has in her life. I thought THAT was the sexism that we've been fighting against for generations - the idea that women must attract men to have worth.

[BruceVC]

Wait, so women suffer in war because they lose the men in their lives? That sounds remarkably like her worth is intrinsically tied to what men she has in her life. I thought THAT was the sexism that we've been fighting against for generations - the idea that women must attract men to have worth.

 

 

No one  likes a smartass TN, you know thats not what the quote means 

 

A women at home has to survive knowing her son, husband, father or any other male in her life is now dead...gone for forever, killed on the battlefield. And the dead person doesn't feel any more sorrow..they dead

 

Of course this is true, the grief of family members will always be severe, real and implacable. But I would think this extends to all family members, like dads, who have lost family members

[Blarghagh]

So what you're saying is it extends to men too, but it just happens to women more because of gender roles keeping women in that position of weakness where they have to attract men for their life to have meaning. Because I think I'm seeing a root cause here.

[Legbiter]

Bomb threat... now that is a new low for the anti-GG people. I wonder how many journalists are going to report on bomb threat against GamerGate? I wonder how their narrative on how GamerGate is the hate group is going to take this? 

Seems the DC meetup was a metaphor for GG itself. People having fun until they get disrupted by SJW sociopaths who are doing the same things they pretend to condemn.

[Nonek]

So the Tommy loses everything and any chance of ever having a life to lead, and he's the lucky one? Whereas the ones who have life, hope and a chance to rebuild are much worse off than the rotting corpse? This is utterly idiotic.