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RPGCodex Review #1 - Hŵrpa Dwrp

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Yeah, the real disappointment will come after you finally get that blade forged, and it hits you that you just utterly wasted your time...because you could have crafted an identical blade out of any Esoc you found way back in act 1. :::: shakes head :::

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Yep. And even if that wasn't the case, it would be a rather petty thing to complain about.

Not being able to complete a sidequest because you already moved on with the main story line and can't get back, is pretty normal in RPGs.

 

No it's not considering this game is paying homage to the IE games. And Petty? I'd consider it a major task in the endless paths and no where does it say you should finish it before Act 2.

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Yeah, the real disappointment will come after you finally get that blade forged, and it hits you that you just utterly wasted your time...because you could have crafted an identical blade out of any Esoc you found way back in act 1. :::: shakes head :::

 

I've already seen the stats and prepared for the disappointment. But it would have been good to see how disappointing it is to the estoc I'm already using with Pallegina now. This just prolongs it. :(

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Sometimes I don't know why the Codex bothers reviewing anything, as they seem to like about four games made in the late 20th Century.

 

 

Mask of the Betrayer was released in the 21th century you piece of ****.

Now go and read that review on the Codex, learn the traits that makes a game great and educate yourself before spewing moronic remarks just to extract yourself from facing the harsh reality regarding this game. 

 

 

Translation: BWAAA BWAAA BWAAA

 

Codex in a nutshell.

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Yep. And even if that wasn't the case, it would be a rather petty thing to complain about.

Not being able to complete a sidequest because you already moved on with the main story line and can't get back, is pretty normal in RPGs.

 

No it's not considering this game is paying homage to the IE games. And Petty? I'd consider it a major task in the endless paths and no where does it say you should finish it before Act 2.

 

 

Acts 4 & 5 of BG2 completely walled you off from literally every place you had been prior.

 

Just sayin'.


If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time.

Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.

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Acts 4 & 5 of BG2 completely walled you off from literally every place you had been prior.

 

Just sayin'.

So?

 

In the case of BG2's chapter 5, does it matter that they 'walled you off' from the surface world, if they, instead, gave you a massive New cavernous area you can explore with a village *and* a city, and 3 fairly large and unique inner caves and about a bajillion new quests?

Edited by Stun

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Yeah, the real disappointment will come after you finally get that blade forged, and it hits you that you just utterly wasted your time...because you could have crafted an identical blade out of any Esoc you found way back in act 1. :::: shakes head :::

You can? I haven't touched enchanting in a while, but I was under the impression that you can't add stuff like speed or dt penetration.


"Take your child murderin' god and shove his him up his own ass."-Volorun

 

"...the vote of a black redhead disabled homosexual transsexual Jew should probably be worth the same as at least a hundred white heterosexual Christians."-Rostere

 

"i can think of many women i would gladly sleep with, but not a single one that i would want as a girlfriend/wife... neither real nor fictional."-teknoman2

 

"I'm all for killing dogs in film." - algroth

 

"Iselmyr is the one who did GOMAD... Aloth is lactose intolerant" -ShadySands

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This is the worst Obsidian game to date, is that right? :dancing:

 

Anywho, oh RPGCodex. Sometimes I can't tell what you love more, being generally contrarian, or shi*ting all over everything. I entertained the fantasy, for a moment, of how Roxor's review would have read if the mainstream gaming sites had said some of the absurd sh*t that he did about the game before he wrote the review. If PCGamer had called PoE Obsidian's worst game ever and Metacritic had placed it at a 50 instead of a 90, would Roxy have perhaps been rushing to tell all the critics that their opinions are sh*t and that PoE is at the very least one of the better Obisidan games? The answer of course is no, not Roxy, he was too invested all along. He decided a long time ago that the game would be sh*t and even the greatest game Obsidian has ever made (not that PoE is necessarily that) couldn't change his mind. He would have had to admit that he was wrong, can you even imagine such a thing?

 

You don't have to read far to understand how this review is going to go: "The game abandons established settings and rulesets in favour of ones developed at home by Obsidian, whose one big purpose was to differentiate it from Dungeons and Dragons." This is where he declares that the one main goal of the setting (and ruleset) is to be as different as possible from D&D. This is, of course, blatantly untrue. The setting was meant all along to be reminiscent of D&D settings, and the rules as well, if to a lesser extent. One of the main promises of the game was to evoke the "feels" of the IE games, which was accomplished through the familiarities of the setting and rules. If they had been completely unfamiliar, then the game would have failed to deliver on a huge promise. But none of that will stop Roxy from going on and on and making snarky comments about how undifferentiated this or that is from D&D, as if that somehow is objectively bad because he declared that the goal was differentiation.

 

He goes on to say that the writing is "at best average and at worst abysmal." I mean, it's so clear with every passing paragraph of this review that he's determined to hate this game. So, the quality range for writing in this game is average to abysmal apparently. Compared to what, Roxy? Compared to Divinity: Original Sin (ha) or Wasteland 2 or Shadowrun Returns? Is the writing average or abysmal compared to those. Is it average or absymal compared to BG and BG2, the games that inspired it? Give me a break. The only compliments he allows are occasional concessions such as "Generally speaking, it’s your generic medieval fantasyland that you’ve already seen many times before under different names, but it has at least a few cool twists." So, an extremely rare half-sentence, backhanded concession followed by five or more paragraphs of bile is about the only positivity you'll find.

 

The reason some of you are thinking "Hmmm, I do agree with most of his points, but totally disagree with his overall opinion of the game," is simple: buried beneath all the try-hard edginess and negativity are a few actual good points. This "review" isn't much of a review though, it's just a list of every perceived flaw blown completely out of proportion. Give me a seething hatred of games and a few days of free time and I could do the same with BG2, Planescape: Torment, Ultima IV, Fallout 1, or any other game. When instead of reviewing you just find every possible fault and write a few paragraphs about how terrible it is, it'll paint anything in a negative light. This can be done with any sort of creative work, from the worst of them to the best, which is why this review is essentially worthless.

 

For reference, lines such as these I find to be useful and worthy of a review, even if he is being overly critical in my opinion: "The bad encounter design and general lack of difficulty have one more very unfortunate result - they make exploring and dungeon-delving insanely boring. But make no mistake, this is also due to the dungeon design being very lacklustre to begin with." In other words, the sentiment here is fine if true, but it's a problem if you're just making any and every argument you can dream up in order to bash the game, as often seems to be the case. Then there are lines such as these in the summation which reveal that you're not really reading much of a review at all: "This is literally the worst Obsidian game I’ve played to date. That’s right, I even had more fun with Dungeon Siege 3." Well, by all means, refrain from reviewing story-driven RPGs in the future then, because your preference is clearly action games.

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"Forsooth, methinks you are no ordinary talking chicken!"

-Protagonist, Baldur's Gate

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Yeah, the real disappointment will come after you finally get that blade forged, and it hits you that you just utterly wasted your time...because you could have crafted an identical blade out of any Esoc you found way back in act 1. :::: shakes head :::

You can? I haven't touched enchanting in a while, but I was under the impression that you can't add stuff like speed or dt penetration.

 

 

Outside of Fine/Superb/Exceptional qualities, you can't add speed or DR penetration.

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You don't have to read far to understand how this review is going to go: "The game abandons established settings and rulesets in favour of ones developed at home by Obsidian, whose one big purpose was to differentiate it from Dungeons and Dragons."

I'm sorry but I have absolutely no idea how you got this from the review because it doesn't say anything of the sort. He used the word not-D&D. You've heard of "I can't believe it's not butter" right ?

 

That pretty much invalidates everything in your first paragraph.

 

He goes on to say that the writing is "at best average and at worst abysmal." I mean, it's so clear with every passing paragraph of this review that he's determined to hate this game.

I doubt it, because I was determined to enjoy the game, and I came roughly to the same conclusions. I had the same opinion as Darth Roxor did that even if the combat wasn't very good that at least the writing/story would be good, because it's Obsidian right? This is their forte. It turned out to be exactly as he said - average at best. I wouldn't go as far to say abysmal at worst but there are areas where it clearly struggles.

 

The plot and player motivation is a mess and the game clearly suffers from trying to cover too much ground while not really doing any of it's themes justice at all.

 

This thread basically covers everything and includes several posts from the author: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/the-writing-in-this-game-is-average.98103/

 

Then there are lines such as these in the summation which reveal that you're not really reading much of a review at all: "This is literally the worst Obsidian game I’ve played to date. That’s right, I even had more fun with Dungeon Siege 3." Well, by all means, refrain from reviewing story-driven RPGs in the future then, because your preference is clearly action games.

I'm not sure how you got "clear preference for action games" from this. I think it's pretty clear that the game burnt the reviewer. He was expecting an Infinity Engine successor that at least had a decent Obsidian story. What he got was a game that he didn't find fun to play and didn't have a good story. Whereas Dungeon Siege 3 probably at least met or surpassed his expectations.

Edited by Sensuki

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Eh, most of what he says is true, but in many cases I disagree with the conclusion. Like no pre-buffing or kitting are things I see as a possitive.

 

Pre-buffing in particular, there was no challenge or fun in putting up all your buffs before a fight in the IE games, the only cost to doing this was real life time it took to cast everything. There was no reason not to cast every buff you have, PoE buffs actually involve some strategy as there is an oportunity cost to using them. 

 

Kitting just feels gamey, having a character run around in circles while enemies chase him feels silly and unrealistic. You shouldn't be able to just run away if an enemy engages your squishy caster, actually try to stop that from happening, or CC them if it does... or alternatively don't make the caster squishy, there's a reason even wizards can use plate in this game.

 

Per-Encounter abilities giving every character something usefull to do in every fight? This is a good thing. Items being samey actually keeps itemization balanced and you aren't pidgeon holed into designing your party around the god tier artifacts.

 

I do agree with his review of the stat system (perception and con are dump stats), feats and talents (a lot of useless ones, particularly the defensive and utility ones) and skills, as well as class balance, those areas could use some work, but feel each of those is still a huge improvement over IE games even so.

 

Not going to write a review but my conclusion would be that PoE is simply a much better, modern Baldur's Gate - which is just what I expected and wanted.

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Sadly to say i completely agree with this review. The AI in this game is really disappointing. I don't think ANY patch can fix the combat anymore. Perhaps maybe PoE2.

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Pre-buffing in particular, there was no challenge or fun in putting up all your buffs before a fight in the IE games

 

Technically that's not true; it was a somewhat challenging to remember the durations of all the buffs so you could buff all six characters simultaneously in the right order (long-duration buffs first, short ones last) ;)

 

Ah, good times...

 

qKwGysf.png

Edited by Ineth
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"Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them." -- attributed to George Orwell

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Yeah, the real disappointment will come after you finally get that blade forged, and it hits you that you just utterly wasted your time...because you could have crafted an identical blade out of any Esoc you found way back in act 1. :::: shakes head :::

You can? I haven't touched enchanting in a while, but I was under the impression that you can't add stuff like speed or dt penetration.

 

 

Outside of Fine/Superb/Exceptional qualities, you can't add speed or DR penetration.

 

All Esocs have DR penetration, so the Blade of the endless paths isn't offering anything special in that regard. The only thing it does give you is the +1.2 speed modifier and the marking quality, both of which are common magical properties shared by many other weapons you can find in this game (including another Esoc you can find in Act 1).

 

They were uninspired, here, and they dropped the ball. By contrast, Durlag's tower gave you Keil's Helmet, Keil's Buckler, The Flame Tongue Sword, Bala's Axe, and the Staff of striking. All of them Unique items with unique properties you won't find anywhere else in the game.

Edited by Stun
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I also agree with most of these points.

 

I hope somebody from Obsidian reads this and takes notes.

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You don't have to read far to understand how this review is going to go: "The game abandons established settings and rulesets in favour of ones developed at home by Obsidian, whose one big purpose was to differentiate it from Dungeons and Dragons."

I'm sorry but I have absolutely no idea how you got this from the review because it doesn't say anything of the sort. He used the word not-D&D. You've heard of "I can't believe it's not butter" right ?

 

That pretty much invalidates everything in your first paragraph.

 

No. What are you even talking about. You don't know where I got the idea from, I was directly quoting his review. He says, and I quote (again): "The game abandons established settings and rulesets in favour of ones developed at home by Obsidian, whose one big purpose was to differentiate it from Dungeons and Dragons." He then goes on to make snarky, sarcastic comments about how everything is "not-D&D" such as the amaua which are "not-orcs," the orlans which are "not-halflings," etc. In other words, he falsely presupposes that the point was to differentiate from D&D, and then criticizes the game for not doing so. So, I don't know what you're on about, but it's not my first paragraph that's been invalidated here.

 

 

 

He goes on to say that the writing is "at best average and at worst abysmal." I mean, it's so clear with every passing paragraph of this review that he's determined to hate this game.

I doubt it, because I was determined to enjoy the game, and I came roughly to the same conclusions. I had the same opinion as Darth Roxor did that even if the combat wasn't very good that at least the writing/story would be good, because it's Obsidian right? This is their forte. It turned out to be exactly as he said - average at best. I wouldn't go as far to say abysmal at worst but there are areas where it clearly struggles.

 

The plot and player motivation is a mess and the game clearly suffers from trying to cover too much ground while not really doing any of it's themes justice at all.

 

This thread basically covers everything and includes several posts from the author: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/the-writing-in-this-game-is-average.98103/

 

So, which games that I mentioned have better writing than PoE? D;OS, Wasteland 2, SRR? Do you think that the writing in BG1 and BG2 is better than the writing in PoE? We'll leave the story and plot aside, because the comment was about the quality of the writing. I think that the writing ranges from as good as to better than all of the games I listed, but you're free to disagree of course.

 

Also, you can say that you were determined to enjoy the game, and Roxor can say the same, but both of you hated aspects of it before it was even released. I don't think you're lying, and I think that you did try to give it a shot, but ultimately there are irreconcilable issues with combat that are bound to warp your view of the game overall. I think that his comments about the writing are indefensible. You single the comment out but then you even agree that you don't think the writing is abysmal even at its worst, so what's your point here exactly? It seems that in some cases you're defending the review simply because you relate to being disappointed with the game, regardless of whether or not his points are true.

 

 

 

Then there are lines such as these in the summation which reveal that you're not really reading much of a review at all: "This is literally the worst Obsidian game I’ve played to date. That’s right, I even had more fun with Dungeon Siege 3." Well, by all means, refrain from reviewing story-driven RPGs in the future then, because your preference is clearly action games.

I'm not sure how you got "clear preference for action games" from this. I think it's pretty clear that the game burnt the reviewer. He was expecting an Infinity Engine successor that at least had a decent Obsidian story. What he got was a game that he didn't find fun to play and didn't have a good story. Whereas Dungeon Siege 3 probably at least met or surpassed his expectations.

 

 

That was my scathing summation, a nod to his if you will. Obviously enjoying action games doesn't preclude you from enjoying story-driven RPGs, but he made the initial comparison between the two and my response was meant as a half-joke. Anyway, I just don't think that the review offered anything worthwhile. Furthermore, I think it's ridiculous to call it the worst Obsidian game to date, do you disagree? Do think that Roxor really believes that this is the worst game Obsidian ever made? Do you believe that it's their worst game?

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"Forsooth, methinks you are no ordinary talking chicken!"

-Protagonist, Baldur's Gate

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I also agree with most of these points.

 

I hope somebody from Obsidian reads this and takes notes.

 

Nobody from Obsidian is going to a read a review with this tone. But, if it's just for entertainment purposes then w.e.?

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Yes, PoE has it's flaws, but none of them is completely broken or unfixable

Correct. But that's the thing. The vast majority of that reviewer's gripes with the game are things that are neither broken nor fixable. They are specific designs that are working precisely as the devs intended them. But the problem is that they're simply not fun, or to be more objective, they don't fit the reviewer's definition of fun.

 

For example, he complains about The engagement mechanic. But the engagement mechanic isn't broken. It's working as designed. So what is there to fix? Nothing. There's nothing to fix. It can only be changed or removed.... And that would go counter to the intended design.

 

If you go down the list of this reviewer's talking points you'll find that they're almost all about developer design decisions, and not really about "broken mechanics" or "things that need number tweaking".

 

 

The engagement mechanic is literally the only thing that is a bad design choice per se and not related to either not having enough production resources or not properly balanced.

 

Let's list all the frequently mentioned issues of the game and the possible reasons for them, ... you know ... for science:

 

Issues that can be traced back to just not having enough time to properly balance test:

Attributes dump or pump mechanics: clearly just not properly balanced. Interrupt is in fact an interesting mechanic, it just isn't strong enough to matter for now; constitution misses additional perks to make it more interesting for non-tanks.

Binary armors: penalty on armors is too high; gap between tanks and non-tanks in terms of defense is too large; builds can be too extreme (no damage, maximum absorb builds) ... clearly just a lack of proper class balancing.

Wizards too weak; Ciphers too strong: I can't think of something that screams "balancing patch incoming" louder than this one.

Game too easy: again, a balancing issue

 

Issues that can be traced back to just not having enough production resources:

Missing C&C: scripting multiple outcomes takes a lot of extra writing. Even more so if we have long-term effects.

Skills lack impact: again; extra writing and scripting required.

Lack of puzzles: Puzzles usually require unique coding pieces that can not be re-used somewhere else, in other words: require a lot of work for a pretty small amount of content. Having more puzzles would probably need an entirely dedicated coder working on them ... which is not an option if you have not enough budget.

Stronghold & Mega dungeon: Clearly, those content pieces were added because Obsidian was forced to add them due to the kickstarter promises. It's actually a good example on how kickstarter stretch goals can mess up your project. Then again, PoE was one of the first major kickstarter projects ever so it's absolutely forgivable that they made mistakes during their campaign they would probably not repeat for future projects.

Crafting: See Stronghold

Copy & Paste battles: Again, each encounter has to be hand-crafted and playtested. It's clear that the main focus of production was getting the core framework to work as good as possible, not necessarily to deliver encounter designs on the level of BG2: ToB. This is a common issue among most franchises; the first installment of a new franchise usually lacks encounter diversity due to production limits and all the work that has to be put into developing a new framework; later installments can shift production resources more towards content design.

Missing class/race/gender/background interactions: To be perfectly honest, I'm actually amazed at how much race/class specific dialogue options we have in the game. If anything, we can blame Obsidian for not cutting the Godlike races (that were clearly designed last in the developement process and have next to none specific content, whereas races that were there very early (like Orlans) have lots of dialogue options.

 

 

Engagement is literally the only thing that was just a bad design choice. Then again, nobody says that stuff like combat repositioning through 5-feet-movement rules can not be retrofitted into the game. Engagement is not a bad mechanic per se. It's just missing some extra rules to bring it more in line with the AOO mechanics.

No wait, there is also Stealth. But seriously, if that is that much of an issue to you, then there's lots of other games that do it better. You know, stealth games have an entire genre nowadays...

 

 

 

All this stuff is expected to be more or less fixed either via balance patches or expansion/sequel content. The framework is done. All production resources can now be focused on getting higher quality content. Think about BG1 again here: BG1 developed the IE. It didn't have any quality content at all because most resources went into developing the engine. Everything was mediocre. It were the other installments using the same engine that delivered the meaty stuff. I'd say give the franchise some time to grow. It definitely has a lot of potential. And now that PoE was a financial success, it is more than possible Obsidian will increase the number of developers working on future installments of the franchise; increasing it's overall level of content. Seriously, they'd be stupid not to (and plus, they promised at least one expansion anyway).

Edited by Zwiebelchen
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Yeah, the real disappointment will come after you finally get that blade forged, and it hits you that you just utterly wasted your time...because you could have crafted an identical blade out of any Esoc you found way back in act 1. :::: shakes head :::

You can? I haven't touched enchanting in a while, but I was under the impression that you can't add stuff like speed or dt penetration.
 Outside of Fine/Superb/Exceptional qualities, you can't add speed or DR penetration.
All Esocs have DR penetration, so the Blade of the endless paths isn't offer anything special in that regard. The only thing it does give you is the +1.2 speed modifier and the marking quality, both of which are common magical properties shared by many other weapons you can find in this game (including another Esoc you can find in Act 1).They were uninspired, here, and they dropped the ball. By contrast, Durlag's tower gave you Keil's Helmet, Keil's Buckler, The Flame Tongue Sword and the Staff of striking. All of them Unique items that have unique properties you can't find anywhere else in the game.

Actually the blade has an additional 3 Dr penetration, they call it the rending property.

 

Not that it changes the status of the blade as bland and unremarkable.


"Take your child murderin' god and shove his him up his own ass."-Volorun

 

"...the vote of a black redhead disabled homosexual transsexual Jew should probably be worth the same as at least a hundred white heterosexual Christians."-Rostere

 

"i can think of many women i would gladly sleep with, but not a single one that i would want as a girlfriend/wife... neither real nor fictional."-teknoman2

 

"I'm all for killing dogs in film." - algroth

 

"Iselmyr is the one who did GOMAD... Aloth is lactose intolerant" -ShadySands

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Items being samey actually keeps itemization balanced

What is this tripe?

 

If keeping loot balanced means you have to make it all generic and soulless, then F*ck itemization balance.

 

I don't judge a game by how balanced it is. I judge it on how *creative*, and *fun* and *memorable* it is. So yeah, I'll take BG2's gloriously imbalanced loot itemization over PoE's Level-playing-field-at-all-costs system. Because it's better. And more rewarding. And more creative. And more memorable.

Edited by Stun
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All Esocs have DR penetration, so the Blade of the endless paths isn't offering anything special in that regard. The only thing it does give you is the +1.2 speed modifier and the marking quality, both of which are common magical properties shared by many other weapons you can find in this game (including another Esoc you can find in Act 1).

Which other Estoc has those enchantments?

 

Game has only these estocs if they haven't for some reason not used "estoc" in some estoc's file name.

 

estoc_endless_paths.unity3d (Blade of the Endless Paths)

estoc.unity3d (Normal Estoc)

estoc_drakes_bell.unity3d (Drake's Bell)

estoc_exceptional.unity3d (Exceptional Estoc)

estoc_fine.unity3d (Fine Estoc)

estoc_the_white_spire.unity3d (The White Spire)

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Issues that can be traced back to just not having enough time to properly balance test:

 

 

They didn't have a publisher insisting on deadlines. They were on their own timetable. So how did they end up "not having enough time"?

 

 

Issues that can be traced back to just not having enough production resources:

 

They didn't have a AAA budget, true. But they could have cut unnecessary things (stronghold upgrades, some levels of the mega-dungeon, etc.) and put those resources into polishing the core game instead.

 


"Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them." -- attributed to George Orwell

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Issues that can be traced back to just not having enough time to properly balance test:

 

They didn't have a publisher insisting on deadlines. They were on their own timetable. So how did they end up "not having enough time"?

 

Sad fact is that even when you don't have publishers insisting on deadlines you need pay for your staff and when you run out of money you need to release product or bury(cancel) it regardless of how ready and polished it is.

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No. What are you even talking about. You don't know where I got the idea from, I was directly quoting his review. He says, and I quote (again): "The game abandons established settings and rulesets in favour of ones developed at home by Obsidian, whose one big purpose was to differentiate it from Dungeons and Dragons." He then goes on to make snarky, sarcastic comments about how everything is "not-D&D" such as the amaua which are "not-orcs," the orlans which are "not-halflings," etc. In other words, he falsely presupposes that the point was to differentiate from D&D, and then criticizes the game for not doing so. So, I don't know what you're on about, but it's not my first paragraph that's been invalidated here.

You said this in your first paragraph of your last post

 

This is where he declares that the one main goal of the setting (and ruleset) is to be as different as possible from D&D.

Your key mistake here is that you think the reviewer thinks that what Obsidian created is 'to be as different as possible from D&D' when he is actually saying it's trying to be 'not-D&D', which is basically D&D stuff with slight variations. He criticizes them for being unoriginal/boring. Part of Obsidian's goal was to make the game feel a bit like Forgotten Realms / D&D and this is what they did to an extent, but the reviewer wanted them to take more risks, to be a bit more inventive.

 

The exact opposite of what you said.

 

So, which games that I mentioned have better writing than PoE? D;OS, Wasteland 2, SRR? Do you think that the writing in BG1 and BG2 is better than the writing in PoE? We'll leave the story and plot aside, because the comment was about the quality of the writing. I think that the writing ranges from as good as to better than all of the games I listed, but you're free to disagree of course.

The reviewer compares the writing against Obsidian's other games and not the other Kickstarters, but I'll humor you. There are many aspects of writing and I think Obsidian's writing is nicely written but in Pillars of Eternity specifically the plot is weak, has structural and pacing issues as well as issues with establishing player motivation, and then goes full retard in the last part of the game (which he mentions, where they throw everything including the kitchen sink at you in the last bit of the game). Nothing in the game me even remotely care about the Dyrwood or the antagonist to the point where I stopped playing the game because I simply did not care to pursue the story any further after the Act 2 finale.

 

I have completed Shadowrun Returns (and none of the other KS games) and while Obsidian can write nicer sentences, I thought Shadowrun Returns had a better plot - started out investigating a murder and then evolved into a save the world story, simple, perhaps a bit cliche, but it worked without issue. Obsidian reached for the sky and fell short with theirs. There were several things I didn't like in SRR such as the murderer showing up at the crime scene (derp) and I didn't even like the second part of the story but there was nothing wrong with the plot and I liked the characters, particularly Coyote. Apparently Dragonfall is way, way better. I recently bought that but I've only played the first 10 minutes.

 

I'll take a simpler plot/story that succeeds than one that is underdeveloped/a mess. IMO the most interesting story tidbit was the Hollowborn stuff, I would have rathered if the game was just about that.

 

Also, you can say that you were determined to enjoy the game, and Roxor can say the same, but both of you hated aspects of it before it was even released.

So did many others, I'm sure. It's not difficult to separate combat from story either. Combat in The Witcher 2 sucks, but the story is quite good and I've enjoyed replaying that a few times and the Rise of the Sword mod makes the combat less insufferable.

 

That was my scathing summation, a nod to his if you will. Obviously enjoying action games doesn't preclude you from enjoying story-driven RPGs, but he made the initial comparison between the two and my response was meant as a half-joke. Anyway, I just don't think that the review offered anything worthwhile. Furthermore, I think it's ridiculous to call it the worst Obsidian game to date, do you disagree? Do think that Roxor really believes that this is the worst game Obsidian ever made? Do you believe that it's their worst game?

I've only completed one Obsidian game - Knights of the Old Republic 2. I played Neverwinter Nights 2 but never finished it (and likely never will). I refuse to play Alpha Protocol, South Park and Fallout New Vegas because AP is a console shooter, I don't care about South Park and I don't like any Bethesda games (including Morrowind) and I only mildly enjoyed the first Dungeon Siege but do not care to play the second or third. None of those games cater to my gameplay preferences.

 

Out of the games I have played (Kotor 2), NWN2 and Pillars of Eternity I'd say it's worse than KotOR2, but maybe better than NWN2 at least in some ways, but worse in others.

Edited by Sensuki
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Issues that can be traced back to just not having enough time to properly balance test:

 

 

1) They didn't have a publisher insisting on deadlines. They were on their own timetable. So how did they end up "not having enough time"?

 

 

Issues that can be traced back to just not having enough production resources:

 

2) They didn't have a AAA budget, true. But they could have cut unnecessary things (stronghold upgrades, some levels of the mega-dungeon, etc.) and put those resources into polishing the core game instead.

 

 

 

1) They had limited financial resources. By the time the game got released, the kickstarter finances were already used up and they had to generate revenue from somewhere else. Obsidian itself was nearly bankrupt when the PoE project was announced on kickstarter. They HAD a time limit. Probably an even more rigid one than if they had a publisher in the first place. You know, developing a game costs money. How are you going to pay your employees? And 2 years to make a game is actually extremely short for modern standards.

 

2) They couldn't. All of these things were stretchgoals that they simply had to deliver due to the kickstarter contract rules. In fact, what we are seeing with the stronghold and Od Nua is exactly what you proposed: cutting resources from those things and putting them into polishing the core game. It's exactly the reason why stronghold and Od Nua feel so lackluster.

Edited by Zwiebelchen
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