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RPGCodex Review #1 - Hŵrpa Dwrp

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No, I didn't misunderstand you Gromnir.  I am not arguing for D&D here either.  I don't want save vs Death.  It's odd you use that particular save vs effect since I used examples of CCs. I haven't once mentioned save vs death.  Could we not use examples of extremes that don't exist in this game to argue our points about PoE?  Unless of course you see someone arguing for that extreme.  I am talking save vs CC.  I am not arguing for a Finger of Death.  

 

 

actually,yeah, there is more than a few folks arguing for more d&d and more ie.  so, am thinking there is actual a misunderstanding. 

 

*shrug*

 

let's not get all hypocritical, eh?  recall that our initial examples were vampires and mind flayers from bg2.  those didn't work any better for you than the demi-lich, and they present similar problems to the player absent meta knowledge. however, you are right that the example we gave doesn't exist in poe.  the reason why is 'cause the developers avoided such nonsense.  luckman, who liked your response, is the guy who came up with the bg2 troll example, no?  he noted the consternation that were possible for folks encountering trolls for the first time in bg2.  now again, trolls is 'bout the worst example we could contemplate given how pervasive they are in d&d games and recognizing that they existed in ie games previous to bg2, but the fact is that there were no rhyme or reason behind the troll immunities and regeneration and there were no way for a first-time player to puzzle out the mechanics behind troll regeneration save through trial and error or meta-knowledge.... meta-knowledge which am still trying to puzzle out how you could personal be against given your position on hard-counters and "save or else."  

 

and "save or else" is still a meaningless bit o' nothing.  obsidian specific rejected insta-kills.  the so-called "save or else" shtick is little more than misdirection.  

 

however, if the graze/hit/critical results for status effects is too unforgiving for you, we get that. is nothing wrong with your preference. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps am not suggesting that those who dislike poe is weak or soft, though am suspecting some will read our response that way.  we found poe combat extreme frustrating when faced with some o' the more annoying status effects.  however, as we got deeper into the game, we Personally discovered that we enjoyed the differences compared to ie combat.  we don't reload 'cause o' a single missed save or a couple bad "rolls."  am much more aware o' the inevitability o' fail in poe, and so we must plan acording.  the tactical considerations in poe is different.  is not better.  different.

Edited by Gromnir
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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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One problem that I currently saw in combat is how AI keeps to hitting tank character even when they aren't engaged with them. This makes it possible often block enemies to attack your ranged characters even with characters that are prone. This makes tank characters often much more effective than they should be in the fights. Although tank fighters that can engage 5 enemies would still be bit absurd, as they don't even suffer flank status before there is sixth enemy engaging them. But that isn't systematic problem.

 

 

I got to say I read this a lot...

But I want to be perfectly honest here:

 

Since 1.04 is out, this is not my observation anymore. (at least not in PotD mode; I don't really know if that changes AI somehow)

 

I've been trying several of the bounty encounters yesterday and, oh boy, are they friggin' hard for my level 7 party. Not only does my 100 deflection monk go down quickly, even with GM's pain suppression dropped on her, but also do lots of mobs blatantly ignore her mid-combat. I had lots, I mean lots of trouble keeping my squishies alive. So much trouble that I decided to make them all wear at least DR10. I still haven't managed to kill the Lurker bounty with the two sirens and trolls. It's almost sadistically hard.

 

Before that, I tried some levels of Od Nua with the same party ... with the result that several encounters were simple tank and spank, whereas others quickly changed targets and went for my squishies. The ogres were a pain in the ass.

As a response, I changed my party to get a second full-fledged tank (so recruited Eder again) in my group, as my PC simply couldn't do it anymore.

 

 

It seems that the AI of enemies varies a lot as of 1.04. Trash encounters like jellies, trolls and Xaurips are mostly tank and spank, whereas hand-crafted encounters are much more responsive now. But ... is that really a problem? Jellies and Trolls are not really intelligent, if we really think about it? Why should they have superior AI? It seems that the AI scripts actually do vary based on the type of enemy.

I also observed that whenever my tank PC gets knocked prone or stunned, enemies immediately switch targets and everything goes downhill quickly if you don't have any backup plans.

I don't know if enemies have the same sets of skills in the lower difficulties. I suppose not. But on PotD (at patch 1.04), I encountered lots of enemy groups that you definitely couldn't tank & spank.

 

 

Of course, if you're door-cheesing all the time, no AI in the world will change anything about it, really.

 

 

Now Fast forward to the finished product of PoE. What did we end up getting? Yeah, Rule #1.... violated right off the bat. We have Whole races of monsters spamming the exact same Save-or else effects from BG1 against your party. But unlike BG1, we're not given any tools to tactically counter such attacks because they decided to hold fast to rule #2....for no reason. Because they ended up giving us spells that still require metagaming in order to be even marginally useful against these Save Or else attacks. (the entire line of "Prayer against ____" spells that priests get. They all have two effects: 1. to increase your saves against the Save or else" effects, and, 2. to reduce the duration of those afflictions if you fail your saves.

This is actually my biggest gripe with PoE combat so far. The lack of immunity spells. Granted, the "Prayer against" line pretty much is immunity (+50 defense against the effect), but those spells are so far down the line that you won't have them until almost the end of the game. At the point of the game where most content is happening (level 6-7), you don't have access to a Prayer against prone, stun, paralyze, etc. ...

Also, no other class except the priest have access to these spells. If you don't have a priest in your group, well, you're ****ed.

Edited by Zwiebelchen
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actually,yeah, there is more than a few folks arguing for more d&d

Find me one that has been doing that on a serious level.


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I hope OE ignores cries for D&D system but not to worry they would need to buy a license to use D*D rules.   That is not apt to happen.


 I have but one enemy: myself  - Drow saying


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actually,yeah, there is more than a few folks arguing for more d&d

Find me one that has been doing that on a serious level.

 

oh, so the ones using ie games as examples is not serious?

 

*chuckle*

 

am s'posing you were just funning when you used troll example to point out bg2 goodness o'... whatever point you were trying to make at the time. 

 

am not gonna try and read minds.  is more than a few references to the ie games as an enlightened alternative to poe rejection o' insta-kill.  pretending that ain't true is foolish in the extreme. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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It seems that the AI of enemies varies a lot as of 1.04. Trash encounters like jellies, trolls and Xaurips are mostly tank and spank, whereas hand-crafted encounters are much more responsive now. But ... is that really a problem? Jellies and Trolls are not really intelligent, if we really think about it? Why should they have superior AI? It seems that the AI scripts actually do vary based on the type of enemy.

I also observed that whenever my tank PC gets knocked prone or stunned, enemies immediately switch targets and everything goes downhill quickly if you don't have any backup plans.

I don't know if enemies have the same sets of skills in the lower difficulties. I suppose not. But on PotD (at patch 1.04), I encountered lots of enemy groups that you definitely couldn't tank & spank.

 

I don't know about PotD, but haven't seen that at all on hard since 1.04. I've been tanking and spanking on hard with mostly one tank (did have Eder but swapped him out for Sagani to finish her quest) and nude ranged characters. Nothing has changed at all imo. In fact, once you get to around level 10 onwards, the game becomes easy mode and tanking and spanking makes it easier. Biggest surprise for me so far was the Fampyr bounty I did recently. Tanked and spanked and encounter was over in seconds.

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It seems that the AI of enemies varies a lot as of 1.04. Trash encounters like jellies, trolls and Xaurips are mostly tank and spank, whereas hand-crafted encounters are much more responsive now. But ... is that really a problem? Jellies and Trolls are not really intelligent, if we really think about it? Why should they have superior AI? It seems that the AI scripts actually do vary based on the type of enemy.

I also observed that whenever my tank PC gets knocked prone or stunned, enemies immediately switch targets and everything goes downhill quickly if you don't have any backup plans.

I don't know if enemies have the same sets of skills in the lower difficulties. I suppose not. But on PotD (at patch 1.04), I encountered lots of enemy groups that you definitely couldn't tank & spank.

 

I don't know about PotD, but haven't seen that at all on hard since 1.04. I've been tanking and spanking on hard with mostly one tank (did have Eder but swapped him out for Sagani to finish her quest) and nude ranged characters. Nothing has changed at all imo. In fact, once you get to around level 10 onwards, the game becomes easy mode and tanking and spanking makes it easier. Biggest surprise for me so far was the Fampyr bounty I did recently. Tanked and spanked and encounter was over in seconds.

 

 

You should probably try a game of PotD then.

 

I was really surprised to see that the game was - contrary to popular oppinion - NOT steamrolling on PotD so far. Sure, there were some fights that were clearly easier than others; but that's the nature of the matter (trash vs. crafted encounters).

 

I haven't hit level 10, though. Maybe it changes there. I'm currently trying several of the bounty battles and on PotD and boy, are they painful. I tried the lurker battle for almost one hour yesterday and still couldn't manage to win. I'll probably drop it for now and come back 1-2 levels later.

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In IE magic usually helped to solve stalemates as it spells always hit, but their target could save against their effects, where in PoE spells use same ACC-DEF system than weapon attacks.

 

So miss-graze-hit-crit system only gives larger variety of hit types.

The IE games also had a solution to the stalemate problem for NON-magic battles. They use the D20 system, where 1 is always a miss and And a 20 is always a hit.

 

Personally, though, I've come to terms with the Miss--Graze---Hit--Crit system that PoE uses. I like it. My only issue with it is how....universal it is. It applies to everything. Which means we'll never see those dramatic high level magic battle moments from BG2 and IWD2 where a heated, intense battle could end suddenly in a nail-biting moment due to, say, a Finger of Death, or a Wail of the Banshee. After all, what's the point of scoring a critical hit with your death spell? or a Graze with your Destruction spell?

 

 

One thing I'd love to see is for more than just the duration of spell effects to vary with attack resolution. Particularly, CC spells need to apply different status effects based on the attack resolution - so on a hit you might charm, and on a crit you might dominate, but a graze only dazes. (just as an example)

 

This would allow for a bit more counter-play on both the part of the player and the AI against status effects. As it is, you can confuse or paralyze even extremely powerful enemies for a decent amount of time since you can generally get a graze even when their defenses are very high. Extremely powerful status effects like confuse, charm/dominate, paralyze, etc should be difficult to apply and (IMO) should only ever apply on a hit or a crit, with the possible exception of some very powerful and very specialized (possibly single-target) spells. Maybe slicken doesn't inflict prone unless you hit, and just hobbles on a graze? Etc...

 

There's been some serious missed opportunity to do interesting things with spell effects and the attack resolution system. Maybe they'll implement some more interesting stuff in the expansion?

 

This is a good idea. Maybe Obsidian considers something like this for PoE 2 or maybe some modders try it.

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actually,yeah, there is more than a few folks arguing for more d&d

Find me one that has been doing that on a serious level.

 

oh, so the ones using ie games as examples is not serious?

 

[...]

 

 

Strawman. You said D&D. I was not talking about the IE games. You're addressing a question that was not asked.

 

The problem is that you do this *constantly*, in your gibberish-speak, and it comes off as nothing short of smug and pathetic. There's a reason I've stop engaging you, because there's really no point. You just deflect and evade, put up the occasional strawman, and continue to fanboy, like PoE somehow needs you to be it's shield.

 

It doesn't. And you're being a s***ty shield.

 

So again, find me one that is doing that on a serious level, not just "Eh, I wish it was D&D, but whatever".

Edited by Luckmann
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actually,yeah, there is more than a few folks arguing for more d&d

Find me one that has been doing that on a serious level.

 

oh, so the ones using ie games as examples is not serious?

 

[...]

 

 

Strawman. You said D&D. I was not talking about the IE games. You're addressing a question that was not asked.

 

The problem is that you do this *constantly*, in your gibberish-speak, and it comes off as nothing short of smug and pathetic. There's a reason I've stop engaging you, because there's really no point. You just deflect and evade, put up the occasional strawman, and continue to fanboy, like PoE somehow needs you to be it's shield.

 

It doesn't. And you're being a s***ty shield.

 

So again, find me one that is doing that on a serious level, not just "Eh, I wish it was D&D, but whatever".

 

you are being silly.  the ie games used d&d mechanics.  the insta-kill and hard-counter attributes o' the ie mechanics are directly the result o' the ie game's adoption of d&d.

 

...

 

being obtuse just to entertain us is sweet and all, but unnecessary.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps our gibberish is intentional.  so what is your excuse?

Edited by Gromnir
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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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actually,yeah, there is more than a few folks arguing for more d&d

Find me one that has been doing that on a serious level.

 

oh, so the ones using ie games as examples is not serious?

 

[...]

 

 

Strawman. You said D&D. I was not talking about the IE games. You're addressing a question that was not asked.

 

The problem is that you do this *constantly*, in your gibberish-speak, and it comes off as nothing short of smug and pathetic. There's a reason I've stop engaging you, because there's really no point. You just deflect and evade, put up the occasional strawman, and continue to fanboy, like PoE somehow needs you to be it's shield.

 

It doesn't. And you're being a s***ty shield.

 

So again, find me one that is doing that on a serious level, not just "Eh, I wish it was D&D, but whatever".

 

you are being silly.  the ie games used d&d mechanics.  the insta-kill and hard-counter attributes o' the ie mechanics are directly the result o' the ie game's adoption of d&d.

 

...

 

being obtuse just to entertain us is sweet and all, but unnecessary.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps our gibberish is intentional.  so what is your excuse?

 

 

And there you go again. Deflect, Evade, and when possible, try to contribute as little as possible. When at all possible, when defenceless, ridicule. It's pathetic.

 

There's a huge difference between the Infinity Engine games and D&D. The IE games used the D&D ruleset, but most arguments involving - very warranted - comparisons to the Infinite Engine games has absolutely nothing to do with D&D. And you know this, because despite your intellectual disinclination, you aren't completely devoid of thought. Which just makes it all the more pathetic that you choose to create these strawmen, as if you have something relevant to add.

 

You're a waste of space and time.

 

Now, again, find me one that has been arguing for more D&D on a serious level. What's that? You can't? Oh, what a surprise! Bring out the streamers and the bubbly, oh, no, wait, it's just another day at the Obsidian Fora with Gromnir, nevermind.


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People, please, let's all stay chill.  Remember, this is what the meme wants us to do in order to keep feeding.  Watch the following video to know what I mean, and why we are all being manipulated.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rE3j_RHkqJc

 

I would do the Joker "Why so serious" thing, but I hate the Joker, I think he is the most overrated PoS character from PoS superhero comics to have ever existed.  I also think Heath Ledger's portrayal of him was overrated and was pushed by the media.  So I won't.

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"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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*distilled & confused gibberish*

 

edited out to save space

talk of deflection.  insta-kills and hard counters is not your ambiguous "most arguments."  the ie games used d&d mechanics.  the hard counters and insta-kills in the ie games are directly the result o' the use o' d&d mechanics.  

 

am admitting that your irrationality on this matter does surprise us.  is rare to see somebody so unapologetically obdurate in spite o' a clear error. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir
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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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*distilled & confused gibberish*

 

edited out to save space

talk of deflection.  insta-kills and hard counters is not your ambiguous "most arguments."  the ie games used d&d mechanics.  the hard counters and insta-kills in the ie games are directly the result o' the use o' d&d mechanics.  

 

am admitting that your irrationality on this matter does surprise us.  is rare to see somebody so unapologetically obdurate in spite o' a clear error. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

And there you go again. Deflect, Evade, and when possible, try to contribute as little as possible. When at all possible, when defenceless, ridicule. It's pathetic.

 

There's a huge difference between the Infinity Engine games and D&D. The IE games used the D&D ruleset, but most arguments involving - very warranted - comparisons to the Infinite Engine games has absolutely nothing to do with D&D. And you know this, because despite your intellectual disinclination, you aren't completely devoid of thought. Which just makes it all the more pathetic that you choose to create these strawmen, as if you have something relevant to add.

 

You're a waste of space and time.

 

Now, again, find me one that has been arguing for more D&D on a serious level. What's that? You can't? Oh, what a surprise! Bring out the streamers and the bubbly, oh, no, wait, it's just another day at the Obsidian Fora with Gromnir, nevermind.


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Wow Gronar, you are really degenerating here.

 

I haven't noticed anyone anywhere screaming for more D&D in PoE in any thread that I am aware of.

 

And the strawmans...why are you doing this?

 

You are increasingly isolating yourself from others by doing this by shutting down any possibility of reasoned debate.

 

The current system is too severe, too harsh. It needs more balance. That is what is being suggested. And yes, folks have used various examples for comparison. That is no reason for you to de-rail discourse with the accusation that "many" (and apparently that means none) want PoE to be more like D&D.

 

In this, you are clearly mistaken.

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Hard counters and save or else are awesome because they make you change up strategy and not act the same every fight. As long as its done logically. Maze is a weird spell since there is literally no save for it. You get targeted by it with no super hard counters) you are simply screwed.  But, I'd rather have a maze like spell than the silliness of PE stuff where there are no ahrd counters or no uber spells... thought petrification is the closest thing.

Maze actually did have a counter - barbarian rage. As for save or else, I much prefer PoE's system. Grazes half the duration, so even if you paralyze someone for 4 secs, it just gives you some breathing room, not that you can forget about this enemy. Same when your character gets charmed for 4 secs - if she uses a heavy weapon, there's a good chance that she won't even have time to hit anyone (allies targeting flipped companions is a problem though, but I'm pretty sure it's an oversight and not a design choice, at least for the player's party).

 

BTW many D&D spells weren't save-or-else either. Hold person, for instance, allowed the target to re-roll every round, so if the target's save was high enough, a single (un)lucky hit wasn't a death sentence.

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 And yes, folks have used various examples for comparison. That is no reason for you to de-rail discourse with the accusation that "many" (and apparently that means none) want PoE to be more like D&D.

 

am understanding if you feel pitty for luck, but such empathy is not useful.  honestly, luck is actual claiming, reduced to literal spamming no less, that those who advocate the ie games use o' insta-kills and hard counters can be meaningful differentiated from advocating d&d use o' insta-kills and hard counters. 

 

...

 

wacky.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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CC spells need to apply different status effects based on the attack resolution - so on a hit you might charm, and on a crit you might dominate, but a graze only dazes. (just as an example)
 
Yes please.
 
Dominate/Petrify grazes are totally OP right now, both when used against your party and when you use them against bosses.
Your idea would fix that.
 
For example, here's how my battle against the Sky Dragon went:
  • "round 1", more or less simultaneously:
    • Eder, Kana, Hiravias, Rogue fan out to surround it
    • dragon hits Rogue for a measly 50 damage
    • Cipher uses Scale Breaker, and hits --> several seconds of reduced DR
    • Aloth casts Gaze of the Adragan, and grazes --> a few seconds of petrification
  • "round 2":
    • Everyone hits the dragon with high-damage attacks. They don't even need the full duration of the "grazed" petrify, since the dragon goes down ridiculously fast. I think it took like three to four seconds of virtual time after the petrify landed, for it to die from my attacks.

Next time I'll restrict myself to not using petrify. It's just that after fighting the much tougher Adra Dragon earlier, I thought I had to in order to have any chance. In any case, a dragon should not be so easy to kill thanks to status effect "grazes", especially since there were still tough battles at that point in the game, like undead Raedric.

Edited by Ineth
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"Some ideas are so stupid that only an intellectual could believe them." -- attributed to George Orwell

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What I found most annoying was how confusion worked as it would cause my buffs/heals to be applied to enemies when they were under the status effect (confusion should not = domination). In the end I never bothered with the confusion abilities as they were inferior to other forms of CC. Also how my party would auto attack dominated companions, which felt really weird and to me was immersion breaking.

I think confusion is actually OP the way it works now. First, it seems that instead of acting randomly (as one would expect from a confused person), confused targets become your allies, for all intents and purposes. And what makes it superior to charm/domination is that they don't snap out of it if you attack them, so you can finish them off with complete impunity. 

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CC spells need to apply different status effects based on the attack resolution - so on a hit you might charm, and on a crit you might dominate, but a graze only dazes. (just as an example)
 
Yes please.
 
Dominate/Petrify grazes are totally OP right now, both when used against your party and when you use them against bosses.
 
Your idea would fix that.

 

 

Add another +1 from me for this idea. It's weird that a graze applies the same effect as a hit. The reduced duration isn't even a problem when most CC's have ridicolous durations to begin with (8 second paralize on a more or less spamable cipher skill? In the time it takes for the paralize to fade even on a graze, a dual-wield cipher has gathered enough focus to apply 2 more ...)

Edited by Zwiebelchen
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Wow Gronar, you are really degenerating here.

 

I haven't noticed anyone anywhere screaming for more D&D in PoE in any thread that I am aware of.

 

And the strawmans...why are you doing this?

 

You are increasingly isolating yourself from others by doing this by shutting down any possibility of reasoned debate.

 

The current system is too severe, too harsh. It needs more balance. That is what is being suggested. And yes, folks have used various examples for comparison. That is no reason for you to de-rail discourse with the accusation that "many" (and apparently that means none) want PoE to be more like D&D.

 

In this, you are clearly mistaken.

Wow, coming from you that is a clear case of hypocrisy at it's finest.

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"That rabbit's dynamite!" - King Arthur, Monty Python and the Quest for the Holy Grail

"Space is big, really big." - Douglas Adams

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I was born 1984. Started gaming at 7 years old with mario on NES.

I have played countless games on all gaming platforms with a primary love for RPGs. RPGs the last 5-7 years has been average at best (few exceptions). I've actually gotten custom to so many average RPGs that I'm used to disappointment by now.

That said... I think PoE is a solid 8/10. Beating Dragon age Inquisition which I considered a 7/10. Despite its faults - which has already been pointed out - I enjoyed PoE immensly.

To sum up: You judge a game by the sum of its parts. You dont dismantle it and go "HAH! Found a rusty cog!". This is just my opinion, but PoE *DID* deliver on the most important aspects of what I missed with RPGs from back in the day.

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And yes, folks have used various examples for comparison. That is no reason for you to de-rail discourse with the accusation that "many" (and apparently that means none) want PoE to be more like D&D.

am understanding if you feel pitty for luck, but such empathy is not useful. honestly, luck is actual claiming, reduced to literal spamming no less, that those who advocate the ie games use o' insta-kills and hard counters can be meaningful differentiated from advocating d&d use o' insta-kills and hard counters.

 

...

 

wacky.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

What's that? Nothing? Not a single example? None? Two pages dug into a hole, posed with the request to substantiate, even in part, a single one of your claims, yet nothing? Shocking, Gromnir. Simply shocking!

 

 

 

CC spells need to apply different status effects based on the attack resolution - so on a hit you might charm, and on a crit you might dominate, but a graze only dazes. (just as an example)

Yes please.

 

Dominate/Petrify grazes are totally OP right now, both when used against your party and when you use them against bosses.

 

Your idea would fix that.

 

I haven't gotten into this discussion, but I absolutely love the idea of variant results for Graze/Hit/Crit effects from spells. Would definitely solve the whole "Grazes aren't hits but eh, close enough, I guess it sorta hit"-issue.

 

Tie it into a robust, thematic, Immunity/Resistance system, and we're halfway there for interesting combat. I still have no idea how we're going to solve the Accuracy vs. Deflection issues, though, with tanks being Full-Deflection-or-Bust and it all rapidly degenerating into swingfests, and vice versa for everyone else.

 

 

What I found most annoying was how confusion worked as it would cause my buffs/heals to be applied to enemies when they were under the status effect (confusion should not = domination). In the end I never bothered with the confusion abilities as they were inferior to other forms of CC. Also how my party would auto attack dominated companions, which felt really weird and to me was immersion breaking.

I think confusion is actually OP the way it works now. First, it seems that instead of acting randomly (as one would expect from a confused person), confused targets become your allies, for all intents and purposes. And what makes it superior to charm/domination is that they don't snap out of it if you attack them, so you can finish them off with complete impunity.

 

I think Confusion as it actually works right now is broken. Everyone turns neutral and suddenly your people are running crazy all over the place, your tank abandons his post, and then everyone dies because no-one is containing anyone. It's havoc, and moreso for the player than the enemy. Confusion only has two results: considerably liability or absolutely overpowered.

 

When the player gets Charmed or Dominated, the biggest danger is to the Charmed or Dominated character itself, as Durance turns around and shoots him in the head like he's a psyker going crazy, and Durance is the commissar.

 

Enemy targeting also seems extremely consistent and predictable. They've always targeted my Aloth, 9 times out of 10. I hate that the enemy appears to be prescient as to my allies' defences. And even so, they'd be better served with one successful Charm or Dominate of Edér, than any of those charms or dominates they've targeted at Aloth (who always loses ~80% of his health as he is invariably targeted by my other backliners).

Edited by Luckmann
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Maze actually did have a counter - barbarian rage. As for save or else, I much prefer PoE's system. Grazes half the duration, so even if you paralyze someone for 4 secs, it just gives you some breathing room, not that you can forget about this enemy. Same when your character gets charmed for 4 secs - if she uses a heavy weapon, there's a good chance that she won't even have time to hit anyone (allies targeting flipped companions is a problem though, but I'm pretty sure it's an oversight and not a design choice, at least for the player's party).

 

BTW many D&D spells weren't save-or-else either. Hold person, for instance, allowed the target to re-roll every round, so if the target's save was high enough, a single (un)lucky hit wasn't a death sentence.

 

 

I'm certainly sure maze got hard countered by something like spell immunity:abjuration.

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When the player gets Charmed or Dominated, the biggest danger is to the Charmed or Dominated character itself, as Durance turns around and shoots him in the head like he's a psyker going crazy, and Durance is the commissar.

 

 

I actually lol'd for real at that.  I can totally see Durance dressed as a Commissar in a 40k game.  Shame it isn't deliberate with him, they could have given me lines when he does it that sounds particularly Commissary.

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