Deflection - what is enough?

[DracoSpirit86]

So I was wondering what the big deflection milestone are, in general and by act for the versus difficulties? I seen a lot of just max it out at the expense of everything else, but I'm trying to figure out what kind of deflection scores you can get away on more complex builds, like say a more aggressive fighter setup, and which creatures are the ones to pull out the hatchet!

[Ouroboros226]

To my experience deflection is pretty pointless. 

I'm running a melee wizard, so sure, my deflection is a bit lower than fighters and such. But still - with deflection items + a massive +20 deflection buff from spells - mobs seem to hit me all the time with ease. 

If wearing deflection gear and using such big boosts as +20 deflect from spells basically does nothing to avoid being hit - then I would say DR is the only reliable defense. If you want to protect yourself better, then better to just max out endurance/con /w high DR.

 

Edit: Unsure about deflection milestones

Deflection optimization takes 2 stats to boost (per + res), I dont see any dps build being able to get good deflect + good damage. The opportunity cost for high deflect is too big when it comes to the dex/might loss. 

Edited April 17, 2015 by Ouroboros226

[Daemonjax]

Shooting for 100+ deflection (before outside buffs) around level 5 on your dedicated tank is reasonable.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Daemonjax

[Adhin]

Ehh that +20 deflection buff is just kinda getting you to a Fighters base. You can stack up a fighter, even Eder (who doesn't have optimal stats) over 100 Deflection which drastically improves how little you get hit, completely nullifies crit chances in most situations. Ultimately you can't have 'to much deflection' or well, you can, but you can't get enough in this game to actually 'get there'. For instance lowest accuracy enemy I think is around...20-ish? You would need 120 deflection to make it so they had a 100% miss chance. And your 'probably' not hitting 120 with out stacking some potion buffs and the like.

 

But yeah, if your trying to do super tank (which I don't think is nessesary, outside of PotD). Stack deflection items, get a big ass shield, go shield focus and don't worry about hitting some magical wall of useless overflow deflection cause you wont hit it on anything that matters.

 

-edit-

As an aside, Mages can make shockingly good tanks. While there base Deflection is bad, that +20 deflection brings em inline with fighters (technically 5 more). And with the +50 endurance/health self buff you can make it so most dmg you take doesn't actually touch most of your base endurance/health. They're just not ready-set for it like Fighters are and take some lvling to 'get there'.

 

But hey once there lvl 11, you can use that +50 ep/hp buff 4 times, base, per encounter which will refresh that +50 to each. Soo... you know... tanky wizards wooo.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Adhin

[Elerond]

200 then there is no enemies that can hit you with attacks that target deflection, but 120-140 is quite enough for high level tank usually.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Elerond

[Ceranai]

It depends both on your game mode and what you arefighting. My chanter at max level with the maximimum deflection from gear talents etc (at least i couldnt think of any other ways to edge it higher) had 137 deflection and pretty much EVERYTHING missed me 99% of the time. I mean the only reason i would ever get hit is if i got debuffed. 

 

When i say pretty much everything I mean even those statues you have to kill at the end of the game only hit me like once or twice for the entire boss fight, in fact the only thing i even had to worry about in that fight was that pillar of holy fire

Edited April 17, 2015 by Ceranai

[Seramus]

100 is a comfy number.
120 is enough for most of the game.

140 is going to rock everything but the Adra Dragon, basically.

[Raven Darkholme]

If you have retaliate even 80 def is very good, especially if you play barb, cipher or monk.

[Voltron]

IMO between 80 and 90 Deflection is good enough with high Damage Reduction (from 20 to 22/24) for any non-tank solo or main char build. Such stat you can get with even 10 Perception and 10 Resolve with end/mid-game items. Rings, cape, Shield will all let you reach it easly. As for Damage Reduction Pull Plate (16 base DR) plus at least +4 from quality enchant and some racial or class you can achieve pretty much.

 

If you however plan to build strict tank character than Deflection above 100 at least. High Con and resistances are best. Dump stats- DEX and INT, and also somehow Might (like you don’t need max here). Damage Reduction same, highest as possible.

 

Also if armor has slash/pierce resitances (like plates) make sure to enchant it also for Crush damage so you have 3 great DRs on char/tank.

 

Hope it helps! Cheers!

[Ceranai]

IMO between 80 and 90 Deflection is good enough with high Damage Reduction (from 20 to 22/24) for any non-tank solo or main char build. Such stat you can get with even 10 Perception and 10 Resolve with end/mid-game items. Rings, cape, Shield will all let you reach it easly. As for Damage Reduction Pull Plate (16 base DR) plus at least +4 from quality enchant and some racial or class you can achieve pretty much.

 

If you however plan to build strict tank character than Deflection above 100 at least. High Con and resistances are best. Dump stats- DEX and INT, and also somehow Might (like you don’t need max here). Damage Reduction same, highest as possible.

 

Also if armor has slash/pierce resitances (like plates) make sure to enchant it also for Crush damage so you have 3 great DRs on char/tank.

 

Hope it helps! Cheers!

I like to enchant for piercing/slashing as these types of damage crop up most often, if Im going into a fight where i know there is lots of shock dmg (i wear plate) ill switch to a different set of armor. Still thats just my preference.

 

I used to support stat dumping but now im quite against it. Little things always pop up that make me think dang wish I hadnt dumped that stat.

 

One thing Id quite like to see is a fully defensive fighter as im pretty sure you could get your deflection to a level that you would NEVER get hit bt melee attacks

[DracoSpirit86]

I'm trying to figure out a way to do a party of fighters with the solider weapons set up that are all the same you see

 

Obviously I got to try and make them reasonably balanced in aggression/defense sides of things and since I want battle to go reasonably quickly I can't follow the traditional line of fighter thinking (max tank). 6 guys with greatswords and decent accuracy should let constant recovery and the odd potion keep me alive.. as long as my deflection is keeping the hits down to reasonable.

[Adhin]

@Draco: The Displaced Image potion, lvl 3, mimics Wizards version of that spell. Base 45 sec duration, gives +25 deflection and +20 reflex. For tougher fights that'll go along way to keep your fighter line alive. That said my main tank in one playthrough is a Barb DW'ing. Just has a lot of HP and solid DR from armor/passive. Deflection is disgraceful and he'll still keep going for a rather long time (unless he gets super ganked with a lot of crits at once). I'm sure you can make the all warrior group work just fine.

[gkathellar]

120+ on a deflection tank, so that just about everything misses you. Maybe 90+ on a retaliation tank, so that opponents still graze you but rarely hit.

[Vadász]

100 is a comfy number.

120 is enough for most of the game.

140 is going to rock everything but the Adra Dragon, basically.

 

I concur, 140 means you'll only gonna get grazed on a a hit, even by drakes and elder bears and 95 is the absolute minimum to avoid crits. This is only for PoTD though, for lower difficulties 120 is more than enough (That's the main reason Edér is good enough for Hard but struggles in PotD).

[Adhin]

I got a PST playthrough planned where I intend to play through on PotD because 'PST combat was hard and it was mostly conversations'. Anyway, my only real 'tank' is gonna be The Nameless One PC whos a fighter and wont use shields. Gonna use 1H axes or a 2H weapon of some kinda (maybe poleaxe) though im making a concession with him using full plate since going naked a little to impossible.

 

I have a feeling it's gonna suck pretty hard not having the big deflection bonus from Shields o.O I mean they only account for... 36 right? 16+12 with +6 from talent... heh. Balls. He will be a Warrior though for that sweet, sweet self regeneration.

[famousringo]

I'm level 8 on normal, wrapping up Defiance Bay, and Eder takes very little damage with 90+ deflection at this point.

 

For my melee/offtank characters, I feel they need at least 50 deflection or they're going to have a bad time and eat some crits.

 

I guess the rule is: If you're going to melee, you need enough deflection to offset the accuracy of whatever's trying to kill you to eliminate crits. Main tanks need up 50 points more to eliminate hits. Pretty sure you can see the accuracy of the beast that's chewing on you if you hover over the damage in the combat log.

[iKrivetko]

Wiki states that the Adra Dragon has 93 accuracy, and I would assume that this is as high as it gets. If that is so, you will need 143 deflection (or fort/ref/will, for that matter) to avoid 65% of the attacks and only be grazed by the rest. 

[Mungri]

Gotta have 120-140+ on Potd, and a couple to hold the massive number of enemies.

[Adhin]

@iKrivotko : and that's not PotD. Toss 50% on top of his deflection to it and... yeeeaaah... That's gonna be a lot of stacking, I'm not even sure anyone can actually get that high. But hey, that 140-ish will at least nullify the crits.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Adhin

[Ceranai]

Wiki states that the Adra Dragon has 93 accuracy, and I would assume that this is as high as it gets. If that is so, you will need 143 deflection (or fort/ref/will, for that matter) to avoid 65% of the attacks and only be grazed by the rest.

 

Adra dragon stats from my solo triple crown run:

 

 

[AncientToaster]

Problem with Deflection is that it really only matters if you have a ton, like 80+

 

If you have anything under that amount consider it all wasted. 

[Ceranai]

Problem with Deflection is that it really only matters if you have a ton, like 80+

 

If you have anything under that amount consider it all wasted. 

not true, the difference between a crit, a hit, and a graze is massive, saying it doesnt matter implies that anything below 80 guarantees a crit and thats just not true

[iKrivetko]

@iKrivotko : and that's not PotD. Toss 50% on top of his deflection to it and... yeeeaaah... That's gonna be a lot of stacking, I'm not even sure anyone can actually get that high. But hey, that 140-ish will at least nullify the crits.

That's bollocks, potd only adds 15 to accuracy and all the defenses.

 

Case in point:

 

Wiki states that the Adra Dragon has 93 accuracy, and I would assume that this is as high as it gets. If that is so, you will need 143 deflection (or fort/ref/will, for that matter) to avoid 65% of the attacks and only be grazed by the rest.

Adra dragon stats from my solo triple crown run:

 

 

 

[InfiniteEternity]

Wiki states that the Adra Dragon has 93 accuracy, and I would assume that this is as high as it gets. If that is so, you will need 143 deflection (or fort/ref/will, for that matter) to avoid 65% of the attacks and only be grazed by the rest. 

Why are we discussing adra dragon accuracy? The fight is about CC/lockdowns and full nuke.

[Ceranai]

 

Wiki states that the Adra Dragon has 93 accuracy, and I would assume that this is as high as it gets. If that is so, you will need 143 deflection (or fort/ref/will, for that matter) to avoid 65% of the attacks and only be grazed by the rest.

 

Why are we discussing adra dragon accuracy? The fight is about CC/lockdowns and full nuke.

Because the Adra dragon is a unique monster with the highest in game accuracy so it's a good example to talk about deflection/accuracy because if the dragon can't hit you then nothing can.

 

Also as far as the Adra dragon goes the two main problems with it are the breath, which you can actually tank with a high reflex extra corrode DR tank ( obviously keep your squishes out of the fall out zone) and you can hit the dragon with spells that target reflexes) (15 wall of fires will kill the dragon (scrolls))

Edited April 18, 2015 by Ceranai