Brigandine and Plate Armor Discrepancy

[anameforobsidian]

 

Brigandine is pretty much vastly inferior to Plate, yes.

 

It is known.

 

It is known.

 

There is little incentive to use anything between basic clothing and full plate armour. Brigandine is no exception.

 

 

There's lots of incentive for off tanks and mixed melee / ranged characters especially in the end game.  They will be taking punches and AoE damage, but speed is important too.  My Barbarian especially comes to mind, where she's switching between a breastplate and hide based on the fight.  Also, it's not uncommon to find a step up in quality for a cheaper / lower DR armor.  I.E. you find a lot more excellent leather than fine plate.  In those cases it's frequently best to take the lower.

 

I think the problem with armour is the same as the problem with attributes: the bonuses are linear. This means that if your character values DR more than speed, the heaviest armours are always the best choice, and if they value speed more than DR, plain clothes are always the best choice. Medium armour is nothing but a poor compromise that's not really great for anyone.

 

I want to see medium armour with the best speed/DR ratio so that it becomes a great "default" choice, leaving heavy armor and no armor for those who really want to maximize their tankiness or attack rate.

 

Right now we have:

• No armour: 0 DR, 0% delay (duh!)
• Padded armour: 4 DR, 20% delay
• Leather armour: 6 DR, 30% delay
• Mail armour: 9 DR, 45% delay
• Plate armour: 12 DR, 50% delay

What I'd like to see:

• No armour: 0 DR, 0% delay
• Padded armour: 4 DR, 10% delay
• Leather armour: 6 DR, 15% delay
• Mail armour: 9 DR, 35% delay
• Plate armour: 12 DR, 50% delay

Something along those lines.

You forgot robes that have a 10% delay (and a few DR).

And Hide, which has 5DR and 25% delay.

And Breastplates  (35% I believe)

And Scale (Eder's starting armor is some of the best in the game for an off-tank type when enchanted up).

And Brigandine.

Edited April 12, 2015 by anameforobsidian

[Darkpriest]

I do not mind brigadine armor being slightly worse, although it could get -5% reduction on recovery. It does synergize very well with a certain belt that boosts pierce and slash resistance, so it makes it basically better vs physical dmgs because it has higher crushing res than plate

[eubatham]

Without changing all the other armors (though I'd prefer if the entire armor system got a 2nd look), another possible solution would be to simply make brigandine an alternative to plate armor.

 

Currently

 

Full Plate

12 DR

15 Pierce 

15 Slash

6 Shock

 

Brigandine

10 DR

13 Crush

8 Corrode

 

Alternatively

 

Full Plate

12 DR

15 Pierce 

15 Slash

6 Shock

 

Brigandine

12 DR

15 Crush

15 Freeze

6 Corrode

 

Some might argue that Full Plate should be better causes it's harder to find, but frankly, it isn't. At level 4 (2 hours at most into the game I guess?) you can have a full party equipped with Full Plate without much issue or cost.

Edited April 12, 2015 by eubatham

[Caerdon]

You forgot robes that have a 10% delay (and a few DR).

And Hide, which has 5DR and 25% delay.

And Breastplates  (35% I believe)

And Scale (Eder's starting armor is some of the best in the game for an off-tank type when enchanted up).

And Brigandine.

I didn't forget anything, I just didn't include everything. I was giving an example, that's all.

[Caerdon]

In addition, this could be similar to how Half Plate and Full Plale work in DnD. Half Plate offers less protection, but has higher penalties than Full Plate, why?

 

The answer is because a Half Plate is a bunch of plates thrown together to be somewhat protective, while Full Plates are always custom made to perfectly suit the one purchasing it. The great difference was in the price (in standard DnD a Half Plate cost 600 gold pieces and a full plate 1500 gold pieces).

 

I'm no D&D expert, but I believe "half plate" is supposed to be like a combination of a mail hauberk, a coif and a cuirass (or something equivalent), which is, in reality, more cumbersome than a real full plate armour. It's not just about custom fit; a hauberk, a coif and a cuirass together would actually weight more than a plate armour, and the weight of a hauberk rests solely on the shoulders of the wearer, whereas a plate armor distributes its weight much more evenly across the whole body.

 

In other words: full plate armor is simply superior: it's lighter, less cumbersome and offers better protection. Obviously it's also more expensive and requires more skill and more advanced understanding of metallurgy from the smith.

 

Of course, what D&D doesn't tell you is that "half plate" existed long before full plate armour. Fantasy settings love to cram everything from viking age to early reneissance into one setting, forgetting that we're talking about a time period of about 800 years.

[Matt516]

 

Brigandine is pretty much vastly inferior to Plate, yes.

 

It is known.

 

It is known.

 

There is little incentive to use anything between basic clothing and full plate armour. Brigandine is no exception.

 

 

I wouldn't agree with that - even if I did that's a separate issue. The problem with Bridgandine is worse than the (not quite settled, IMO) issue where you either go all-in or not-at-all with armor. At least the other armors grow in durability somewhat proportionally to the mobility penalty, letting players choose exactly where they want their characters to fall on the tankiness/speed spectrum. That's something that can be tweaked a bit (though I personally find it quite alright as is).

 

Brigandine, though... has the same speed penalty as Plate and **** for DR in comparison. A wee bit more crushing resistance and you lose the shock weakness... but your slashing/piercing DR is pretty much cut in half. It's just terrible compared to plate - gripes about the global system notwithstanding.

 

I think the problem with armour is the same as the problem with attributes: the bonuses are linear. This means that if your character values DR more than speed, the heaviest armours are always the best choice, and if they value speed more than DR, plain clothes are always the best choice. Medium armour is nothing but a poor compromise that's not really great for anyone.

 

I want to see medium armour with the best speed/DR ratio so that it becomes a great "default" choice, leaving heavy armor and no armor for those who really want to maximize their tankiness or attack rate.

 

Right now we have:

• No armour: 0 DR, 0% delay (duh!)
• Padded armour: 4 DR, 20% delay
• Leather armour: 6 DR, 30% delay
• Mail armour: 9 DR, 45% delay
• Plate armour: 12 DR, 50% delay

What I'd like to see:

• No armour: 0 DR, 0% delay
• Padded armour: 4 DR, 10% delay
• Leather armour: 6 DR, 15% delay
• Mail armour: 9 DR, 35% delay
• Plate armour: 12 DR, 50% delay

Something along those lines.

 

Wonderful idea. I wouldn't tune it down quite that much if it were me, but I love the concept and it'd be a fantastic addition to the inevitable "PoE rebalanced" mod. I'd probably do Robes/Padded/Hide/Leather/Scale/Mail/Brigandine/Plate as 6%/12%/18%/24%/30%/36%/42%/50%, or something like that. Note that Brigandine and Plate are now on separate tiers, because of course they are.

[Zenicetus]

I think the problem with armour is the same as the problem with attributes: the bonuses are linear. This means that if your character values DR more than speed, the heaviest armours are always the best choice, and if they value speed more than DR, plain clothes are always the best choice. Medium armour is nothing but a poor compromise that's not really great for anyone.

 

But, but.... what about Rogues (melee, not ranged)? 

 

My melee Rogue needs a balance between attack speed and protection, to dance around the edges of the battle for sneak attacks. It's impossible to avoid getting directly engaged now and then, and there is also ranged attack damage to consider. And, er... the occasional trap I didn't notice in time, where a bit of armor has saved me from having to reload.

 

I started my Rogue in leather armor in the early game before better was available. I'm currently in high-end padded armor (one of the unique Exceptional ones) and that's working well.

 

On a related note, I have my tank in full plate, but the offtank (Pallegina) is in fancy scale armor for faster attacks. I actually want her doing some damage, compared to the tank who just sits there and absorbs damage without causing much in return.

 

I'm no expert at this game, but it seems to me that mid-range armor is still useful for this kind of thing.

[Caerdon]

Wonderful idea. I wouldn't tune it down quite that much if it were me, but I love the concept and it'd be a fantastic addition to the inevitable "PoE rebalanced" mod. I'd probably do Robes/Padded/Hide/Leather/Scale/Mail/Brigandine/Plate as 6%/12%/18%/24%/30%/36%/42%/50%, or something like that. Note that Brigandine and Plate are now on separate tiers, because of course they are.

 

Yeah, I was just pulling numbers out of a hat to get the point across. Testing would, of course, be required.

 

I know you like math, so maybe the base recovery penalty R for the basic armours could be derived from a formula like:

 

R = (a * (DR / 12) ^ 2 + (1-a) * (DR / 12)) * 0.5, where 0 <= DR <= 12 and 0 <= a < 1

 

That, I think, would at least give a nice, smooth distribution to start with.

[Caerdon]

 

I think the problem with armour is the same as the problem with attributes: the bonuses are linear. This means that if your character values DR more than speed, the heaviest armours are always the best choice, and if they value speed more than DR, plain clothes are always the best choice. Medium armour is nothing but a poor compromise that's not really great for anyone.

 

But, but.... what about Rogues (melee, not ranged)? 

 

My melee Rogue needs a balance between attack speed and protection, to dance around the edges of the battle for sneak attacks. It's impossible to avoid getting directly engaged now and then, and there is also ranged attack damage to consider. And, er... the occasional trap I didn't notice in time, where a bit of armor has saved me from having to reload.

 

I started my Rogue in leather armor in the early game before better was available. I'm currently in high-end padded armor (one of the unique Exceptional ones) and that's working well.

 

On a related note, I have my tank in full plate, but the offtank (Pallegina) is in fancy scale armor for faster attacks. I actually want her doing some damage, compared to the tank who just sits there and absorbs damage without causing much in return.

 

I'm no expert at this game, but it seems to me that mid-range armor is still useful for this kind of thing.

 

Well, I don't entirely disagree, medium armour in many cases isn't a bad choice at all. I just think it should be a bit more desirable choice in general, and the extremes of no armour and full plate should be less obvious choices for certain builds.

 

The numbers in my example were probably too extreme. I was just trying to make a clear point.

[Atheosis]

I can't really say I agree with the notion that only no armor or heavy armor are viable choices.  I used chain mail on my two hander fighter and he was survivable enough in the front ranks while also leading my party in damage done by a fair margin.  If I had put him in plate he would've done considerably less DPS and for what?  A few extra points of DR when he didn't really need it?  Also if you don't put your melee rogue in some kind of armor he/she will go down faster than you can say unarmored rogue.  Generally I do think the speed penalties on lighter armor should be lower relative to plate though.

 

The way I think they should be:

 

Robes: 10% delay

Padded: 15% delay

Hide: 20% delay

Leather: 25% delay

Scale: 30% delay

Breast plate: 35% delay

Chain: 40% delay

Brigandine: 45% delay

Plate: 50% delay

Edited April 12, 2015 by Atheosis

[Emptiness]

I've got my front-line rogue in full plate...because the different between the recovery penalty for Padded and Full Plate is not sufficient to merit passing up on the extra protection that full plate provides.  I'm glad that this game makes a rogue in full plate an option, but I wish that a rogue in padded armor was a competitive option.

[Luckmann]

I can't really say I agree with the notion that only no armor or heavy armor are viable choices.  I used chain mail on my two hander fighter and he was survivable enough in the front ranks while also leading my party in damage done by a fair margin.  If I had put him in plate he would've done considerably less DPS and for what?  A few extra points of DR when he didn't really need it?  Also if you don't put your melee rogue in some kind of armor he/she will go down faster than you can say unarmored rogue.  Generally I do think the speed penalties on lighter armor should be lower relative to plate though.

 

You say that he was in Chain Mail, and survived fine, and that Plate Armour would've reduced his DPS. Fair enough. And then you say that that reduction would be for nothing, just for a few extra points of DR that he doesn't really need.

 

The issue with the No Armour/Full Armour dichotomy of the system is exactly that. If you did fine with Chain Mail, you would probably have done fine with Clothing, and the trade-off is not worth it. The difference between Chain Mail and Full Plate is not worth it. And the difference between Cloth and Chain Mail is not worth it.

 

I've got my front-line rogue in full plate...because the different between the recovery penalty for Padded and Full Plate is not sufficient to merit passing up on the extra protection that full plate provides. I'm glad that this game makes a rogue in full plate an option, but I wish that a rogue in padded armor was a competitive option.

I don't know what to even say to this. I would never put a rogue in anything except clothing, if we're talking efficiency, and you'll find no shortage of people on the boards to point out why. To say that padded armour is not a competitive option is just .. what?

 

I'm really glad the game gives you the option of being a rogue in a full plate, but unless you're a tanking rogue for some reason, with the current modifiers, it's utterly gimp.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Luckmann

[TMZuk]

In medieval Europe a brigandine was a poor man's plate armour.

 

I assume that's what the game attempts to reflect. However, like all rpgs, the brigandine soon becomes pointless, because plate armour is readily available.

 

Funny thing is that today a brigandine costs as much or maybe even more than plate armour does, because it's time consuming as what not to make it. Clearly, in the middle-ages, time was much less of an issue as the hourly wages were next to nothing. And it takes a lot more skill to produce a suit of plate.

[Atheosis]

I've got my front-line rogue in full plate...because the different between the recovery penalty for Padded and Full Plate is not sufficient to merit passing up on the extra protection that full plate provides.  I'm glad that this game makes a rogue in full plate an option, but I wish that a rogue in padded armor was a competitive option.

 

Your DPS is pathetic compared to what it would be whether you realize it or not.

[Luckmann]

 

I've got my front-line rogue in full plate...because the different between the recovery penalty for Padded and Full Plate is not sufficient to merit passing up on the extra protection that full plate provides.  I'm glad that this game makes a rogue in full plate an option, but I wish that a rogue in padded armor was a competitive option.

 

Your DPS is pathetic compared to what it would be whether you realize it or not.

 

 

^ And dead enemies do no damage.

[Emptiness]

Your DPS is pathetic compared to what it would be whether you realize it or not.

 

Compared to what it would be if I were unconscious?  I think not.

 

He's using a 2-handed sword and hitting for 30-ish damage without sneak attack.  I don't mind the wait.

[Atheosis]

 

I can't really say I agree with the notion that only no armor or heavy armor are viable choices.  I used chain mail on my two hander fighter and he was survivable enough in the front ranks while also leading my party in damage done by a fair margin.  If I had put him in plate he would've done considerably less DPS and for what?  A few extra points of DR when he didn't really need it?  Also if you don't put your melee rogue in some kind of armor he/she will go down faster than you can say unarmored rogue.  Generally I do think the speed penalties on lighter armor should be lower relative to plate though.

 

You say that he was in Chain Mail, and survived fine, and that Plate Armour would've reduced his DPS. Fair enough. And then you say that that reduction would be for nothing, just for a few extra points of DR that he doesn't really need.

 

The issue with the No Armour/Full Armour dichotomy of the system is exactly that. If you did fine with Chain Mail, you would probably have done fine with Clothing, and the trade-off is not worth it. The difference between Chain Mail and Full Plate is not worth it. And the difference between Cloth and Chain Mail is not worth it.

 

 

Say what?  If my two hand fighter did well with DR in the teens he would've done fine with no DR?  That has literally no logical basis.  He did fine as in he was able to take a beating, get his endurance fairly low and then recover himself or get some healing.  With no armor he would've been dropped over and over again.  The point is that I found the balance between DPS and DR that felt right.  Your notion that cloth would've worked on him because chain mail worked on him makes absolutely no sense.

[Atheosis]

 

Your DPS is pathetic compared to what it would be whether you realize it or not.

 

Compared to what it would be if I were unconscious?  I think not.

 

He's using a 2-handed sword and hitting for 30-ish damage without sneak attack.  I don't mind the wait.

 

 

I'm not saying it's a bad strat, I'm just pointing out that it has its drawbacks.  Generally I found that my rogue did quite well in light armor if I was smart about how he and who he engaged and I waited until my heavier armored melee characters engaged first.  I also mixed blunderbuss and melee on him depending on the situation.

[Emptiness]

I'm not saying it's a bad strat, I'm just pointing out that it has its drawbacks.  Generally I found that my rogue did quite well in light armor if I was smart about how he and who he engaged and I waited until my heavier armored melee characters engaged first.  I also mixed blunderbuss and melee on him depending on the situation.

 

<nod>  I have only Eder tanking, so effectively my PC rogue is having to also off-tank while getting in his dps, which factors in to the choice of Full Plate.  Everyone else is ranged and squishy.  If I had 2 or 3 other melee characters soaking damage then I might be able to trade in the Plate for something faster.

[Matt516]

 

 

I can't really say I agree with the notion that only no armor or heavy armor are viable choices.  I used chain mail on my two hander fighter and he was survivable enough in the front ranks while also leading my party in damage done by a fair margin.  If I had put him in plate he would've done considerably less DPS and for what?  A few extra points of DR when he didn't really need it?  Also if you don't put your melee rogue in some kind of armor he/she will go down faster than you can say unarmored rogue.  Generally I do think the speed penalties on lighter armor should be lower relative to plate though.

 

You say that he was in Chain Mail, and survived fine, and that Plate Armour would've reduced his DPS. Fair enough. And then you say that that reduction would be for nothing, just for a few extra points of DR that he doesn't really need.

 

The issue with the No Armour/Full Armour dichotomy of the system is exactly that. If you did fine with Chain Mail, you would probably have done fine with Clothing, and the trade-off is not worth it. The difference between Chain Mail and Full Plate is not worth it. And the difference between Cloth and Chain Mail is not worth it.

 

 

Say what?  If my two hand fighter did well with DR in the teens he would've done fine with no DR?  That has literally no logical basis.  He did fine as in he was able to take a beating, get his endurance fairly low and then recover himself or get some healing.  With no armor he would've been dropped over and over again.  The point is that I found the balance between DPS and DR that felt right.  Your notion that cloth would've worked on him because chain mail worked on him makes absolutely no sense.

 

 

Yeah... if you don't use some kind of "only one person ever takes damage ever" strategy (which shouldn't really be possible without some extreme door cheesing due to the sheer number of enemies in some encounters and the existence of AoE attacks), the best strategy is to find what playstyle you like for each character, then put them in the lightest armor they can afford while remaining conscious in that playstyle. So for the tank, that's plate since you're deliberately getting him beat on. For the tanky dps (like my barbarian) that's something like Hide or Leather, so they can take on a few enemies by themselves without going down instantly. And for the backliners, I still find that a little protection (usually robes) is good since every once in a while they'll get targeted in spite of your best efforts.

 

Even speaking from an optimal perspective, the optimal usage of resources is actually to have everyone's health depleting at roughly an equal rate (percentage of full, not values) so that when you finally rest, almost everyone is dead and you know you've squeezed everything out of party health that you can. If only the tank is ever losing health, you're actually playing suboptimally because you're wasting resources that are available to you (again, if you want to be anal about that sort of thing).

 

Not that that much optimality is necessary, of course... but there is support for a variety of armors, even when looking at things from an optimal perspective. I think Sagani is the only character I've got in plain clothing due to her being so far from the fight that she doesn't get targeted by more than 1 ranged enemy usually. But Aloth and Kana and Durance all have their share of close calls, so I'm generally thankful they've got at least a little bit of protection.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Matt516

[Luckmann]

 

 

I can't really say I agree with the notion that only no armor or heavy armor are viable choices.  I used chain mail on my two hander fighter and he was survivable enough in the front ranks while also leading my party in damage done by a fair margin.  If I had put him in plate he would've done considerably less DPS and for what?  A few extra points of DR when he didn't really need it?  Also if you don't put your melee rogue in some kind of armor he/she will go down faster than you can say unarmored rogue.  Generally I do think the speed penalties on lighter armor should be lower relative to plate though.

 

You say that he was in Chain Mail, and survived fine, and that Plate Armour would've reduced his DPS. Fair enough. And then you say that that reduction would be for nothing, just for a few extra points of DR that he doesn't really need.

 

The issue with the No Armour/Full Armour dichotomy of the system is exactly that. If you did fine with Chain Mail, you would probably have done fine with Clothing, and the trade-off is not worth it. The difference between Chain Mail and Full Plate is not worth it. And the difference between Cloth and Chain Mail is not worth it.

 

 

Say what?  If my two hand fighter did well with DR in the teens he would've done fine with no DR?  That has literally no logical basis.  He did fine as in he was able to take a beating, get his endurance fairly low and then recover himself or get some healing.  With no armor he would've been dropped over and over again.  The point is that I found the balance between DPS and DR that felt right.  Your notion that cloth would've worked on him because chain mail worked on him makes absolutely no sense.

 

 

Then it essentially comes down to you failing at tanking; no-one but your tank should be consistently subjected to a meaningful amount of damage, and dead enemies do no damage, which is why DPS is always prioritized heavily over long-term survivability. Enemies do full damage whether they're at 90% or 5% Endurance. Put a good bullet between their eyes and it's over forever, and the best way to do that is to unload on them.

[Atheosis]

 

 

 

I can't really say I agree with the notion that only no armor or heavy armor are viable choices.  I used chain mail on my two hander fighter and he was survivable enough in the front ranks while also leading my party in damage done by a fair margin.  If I had put him in plate he would've done considerably less DPS and for what?  A few extra points of DR when he didn't really need it?  Also if you don't put your melee rogue in some kind of armor he/she will go down faster than you can say unarmored rogue.  Generally I do think the speed penalties on lighter armor should be lower relative to plate though.

 

You say that he was in Chain Mail, and survived fine, and that Plate Armour would've reduced his DPS. Fair enough. And then you say that that reduction would be for nothing, just for a few extra points of DR that he doesn't really need.

 

The issue with the No Armour/Full Armour dichotomy of the system is exactly that. If you did fine with Chain Mail, you would probably have done fine with Clothing, and the trade-off is not worth it. The difference between Chain Mail and Full Plate is not worth it. And the difference between Cloth and Chain Mail is not worth it.

 

 

Say what?  If my two hand fighter did well with DR in the teens he would've done fine with no DR?  That has literally no logical basis.  He did fine as in he was able to take a beating, get his endurance fairly low and then recover himself or get some healing.  With no armor he would've been dropped over and over again.  The point is that I found the balance between DPS and DR that felt right.  Your notion that cloth would've worked on him because chain mail worked on him makes absolutely no sense.

 

 

Then it essentially comes down to you failing at tanking; no-one but your tank should be consistently subjected to a meaningful amount of damage, and dead enemies do no damage, which is why DPS is always prioritized heavily over long-term survivability. Enemies do full damage whether they're at 90% or 5% Endurance. Put a good bullet between their eyes and it's over forever, and the best way to do that is to unload on them.

 

 

What magical means do you use to make entire encounters focus their damage on one character?  Because I'm certainly not familiar with any mechanics that support that.

[PrimeJunta]

I usually just march Edér forward and switch on that talent that gives two more engagements. On most maps the resulting cluster is enough to stop anyone from getting past. In open areas or with teleporting/burrowing enemies things get a bit more complicated though.

[Zenicetus]

<nod>  I have only Eder tanking, so effectively my PC rogue is having to also off-tank while getting in his dps, which factors in to the choice of Full Plate.  Everyone else is ranged and squishy.  If I had 2 or 3 other melee characters soaking damage then I might be able to trade in the Plate for something faster.

 

Well, that tactic is also minimizing your chances for sneak attacks, since you'll be more directly engaged.

 

The reason I can afford to run my PC Rogue around in padded armor is because I'm using a front line of tank (Eder) and offtank (Pellegina) to hold aggro, while my Rogue dances around the edges with fast weapons stabbing at a high rate on the enemies engaged by the front line. Or making a quick run at a Wizard causing trouble in the back of the enemy pack, because he's also optimized for disengagement and buffed movement speed in combat.

 

He's a DPS monster, racking up by far the highest number of kills in the party. And he's not that hard to keep alive in padded armor. I just keep him moving and disengaging when necessary. 

 

This game allows any and every possible build, which is great, and I'm not going to say you're doing it "wrong." That's too absolute. And I can imagine some role-playing back story for Rogue ending up that way. But I think it's safe to say that you're really not taking advantage of a Rogue's natural abilities. 

[Abel]

I opened this topic because i was actually concerned too by the balance between brigandine and plate. For now, i mostly use brigandines on my front line warriors because of cosmetic matters only (fine and exceptional brigandine is really beautiful on a female character model ). Besides the DR matter, there is also a price difference between brigandine and plate. The unenchanted brigandine is way cheaper than the unenchanted plate, which is ok. But, the difference is not so huge when it comes to the enchanted versions sold by Dunstan. Wich is a problem, because you really tend to ditch brigandines to use plates then. I thought there might be a hidden feature somewhere that explained that plate had better DR with the same recovery penalty, but haven't found anything so far.

 

I'm a bit surprised by the handling of robes, too. Robes are actually armored, with 15% recovery penalty. I thought that unless the robe is enchanted, it is still plain cloth. Plus, i find that there is not enough recovery difference between, say, scale and plate (35/50 i guess). i would have found it reasonable that unenchanted robes give 0 DR but offer special enchantment possibilities, padded implies 5 or 10% recovery penalty, hide 15%, leather 20%, scale 30%, breasplate 35%, mail 40%, brigandine 45%, and plate 50%. Or something like that.

 

For now, leather armor giving 30% penalty and plate giving 50% feel strange to me. I mean, if you are to accept the 30% penalty for 6DR, then, you're definitely tempted to accept the 50% for the 12 DR granted by plate. And then, i understand why Luckmann say that player is tempted to play either with plain cloth or plate armor.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Abel