Why would you chose a two handed weapon with no Increased Reach?

[luzarius]

Any reason to use two handed weapons without the increased reach?

[gkathellar]

Estoc for DR penetration.

[Katarack21]

Some of them have specific uses--like the estoc's DR bypass being useful in punching through DR for powerful creatures. Or the pollaxes double damage type (crush/pierce).

[Daemonjax]

I'd like a mod that changes the pole axe to just slash with increased range because then it would get some use.  There would then be a reach weapon for each damage type.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Daemonjax

[Sedrefilos]

You like the looks of it.

[luzarius]

when it says 18-25 dmg slash/crush (best)

 

what does that mean? Does it mean the npc will use whatevre is best for the situation or is it random?

[geierkreisen]

when it says 18-25 dmg slash/crush (best)

 

what does that mean? Does it mean the npc will use whatevre is best for the situation or is it random?

It uses the damage type doing more damage against an opponent making it a sort of care-free or at least care-less choice when playing tactically versus just hitting-it-long-enough-until-it-is-dead .

[WebShaman]

Should be chopping damage instead of crushing. A sharp edge hitting with force chops, it does not crush (like a hammer does).

 

Unfortunately, chopping is not in the game. I guess they fall trees with magic *shrugs*

[eLPuSHeR]

Well. It seems those poleaxes have both a pointy tip and a blunt one. Hence, the slash/crush damage.

[geierkreisen]

Should be chopping damage instead of crushing. A sharp edge hitting with force chops, it does not crush (like a hammer does).

 

Unfortunately, chopping is not in the game. I guess they fall trees with magic *shrugs*

chopping = applying a blade (slashing) with great force (crush)

 

You'd actually not need to use the backside of the poleaxe to get a crush effect, but a blunt side would be there if (for what ever reason) you only wanted to horribly maim someone's insides without also cutting through their precious coating.

[InfiniteEternity]

You like the looks of it.

How was poe on Casual/Normal?

[Sedrefilos]

 

You like the looks of it.

How was poe on Casual/Normal?

 

Very fun to play and challenging at times (haven't finished it yet though).

Edited April 11, 2015 by Sedrefilos

[luzarius]

Dude, a rogue with that two hand estoc is extremely powerful, i'm killing everything on hard difficulty with no problems lol

[tnc]

Obvious answer is because better unique weapons. Like the best greatsword that has endurance leech or the best estoc that has extra attack speed. Also i find no use for reach weapons. I can still hit and stay uninterrupted with my 2h barb with a non reach weapon. Easy to get a good position.

[gkathellar]

I'd like a mod that changes the pole axe to just slash with increased range because then it would get some use.  There would then be a reach weapon for each damage type.

 

Well, as is, poleaxes serve mostly as an off-weapon for the estoc. IMO, the fact that Adventurer contains both makes it the best two-handed weapon class.

 

... although that would still be true if it were a reach weapon, so ...

[KDubya]

The estoc with the -5 DR is going to be better than the polaxe with crush/slash best in pretty much every situation. Better to just enchant up your estoc and use the weapon switch for a warbow.

 

One thing I found out with reach weapons is that if I am engaged by a guy with a pike he can hit me but I can not hit him back unless I move and risk a disengagement attack. I assume that this works for the player as well. That would make reach weapons great for even the front line guys.

[Luckmann]

The estoc with the -5 DR is going to be better than the polaxe with crush/slash best in pretty much every situation. Better to just enchant up your estoc and use the weapon switch for a warbow.

 

One thing I found out with reach weapons is that if I am engaged by a guy with a pike he can hit me but I can not hit him back unless I move and risk a disengagement attack. I assume that this works for the player as well. That would make reach weapons great for even the front line guys.

 

Yeah.. (Dis)Engagement is broken like that.

[KDubya]

 

The estoc with the -5 DR is going to be better than the polaxe with crush/slash best in pretty much every situation. Better to just enchant up your estoc and use the weapon switch for a warbow.

 

One thing I found out with reach weapons is that if I am engaged by a guy with a pike he can hit me but I can not hit him back unless I move and risk a disengagement attack. I assume that this works for the player as well. That would make reach weapons great for even the front line guys.

 

Yeah.. (Dis)Engagement is broken like that.

 

 

 

I don't think it is broken, I thought it was a pretty cool thing that can make the choice between a reach weapon, pike or quarterstaff, and an estoc something more than a no brainer, at least as far as for a frontline melee who is not hiding behind a tank.

 

This makes soldier style a viable pick with pikes, arbalest, arquebus and great sword compared to adventurer with estoc and war bow.

[gkathellar]

The estoc with the -5 DR is going to be better than the polaxe with crush/slash best in pretty much every situation. Better to just enchant up your estoc and use the weapon switch for a warbow.

 

Generally, yeah. Poleaxe is preferable for a barbarian, since warbows don't pack carnaaaa...

 

I gotta go make a thread.

[WebShaman]

 

Should be chopping damage instead of crushing. A sharp edge hitting with force chops, it does not crush (like a hammer does).

 

Unfortunately, chopping is not in the game. I guess they fall trees with magic *shrugs*

chopping = applying a blade (slashing) with great force (crush)

 

You'd actually not need to use the backside of the poleaxe to get a crush effect, but a blunt side would be there if (for what ever reason) you only wanted to horribly maim someone's insides without also cutting through their precious coating.

 

 

Chopping is not crushing!  This is about the amount of area that is hitting another.  When something with an edge hits something else, and the force is enough, it chops into it.  Blunt (large area) does not, but instead tends to reform/burst (crush) said material.  The damage done is totally different.  You do not sever limbs with crushing damage.

 

Chopping is also not slashing!  Slashing is where the edge is drawn across the material and the sharpened edge cuts the material.  It requires a different type of mechanical movement to accomplish.

 

"The blade of the pollaxe can be used, not only for simply hacking down the opponent, but also tripping him, blocking his weapon, disarming him, slicing him and blocking his blows. Both the head spike and butt spike can be used for thrusting attacks. The haft can be used on blocking the enemy's blows (the langets help reinforce the head to extend the life of the pole shaft), "cross-checking" and tripping him."

[Ichthyic]

Should be chopping damage instead of crushing. A sharp edge hitting with force chops, it does not crush (like a hammer does).

 

Unfortunately, chopping is not in the game. I guess they fall trees with magic *shrugs*

or saws... which cut..

 

 

[gkathellar]

 

Should be chopping damage instead of crushing. A sharp edge hitting with force chops, it does not crush (like a hammer does).

 

Unfortunately, chopping is not in the game. I guess they fall trees with magic *shrugs*

or saws... which cut..

 

Man, if you want to get technical, slicing/sawing is a whole different category of destruction than slashing and chopping.

 

It is absolutely not worth getting technical, mind you.

 

But if it were!

[Ichthyic]

 

The estoc with the -5 DR is going to be better than the polaxe with crush/slash best in pretty much every situation. Better to just enchant up your estoc and use the weapon switch for a warbow.

 

One thing I found out with reach weapons is that if I am engaged by a guy with a pike he can hit me but I can not hit him back unless I move and risk a disengagement attack. I assume that this works for the player as well. That would make reach weapons great for even the front line guys.

 

Yeah.. (Dis)Engagement is broken like that.

 

AFAICT  the engagement system is a mimic of the old Attack of Opportunity system in DnD.  reach weapons got an automatic AOO if you moved inside of their range, in all of the games that featured an AOO system that I recall.

 

the only real thing that has changed in this system that I can tell is the name.  probably "attack of opportunity" is trademarked by WotC or some such inanity.

 

 

[WebShaman]

Forgot about sawing...but which weapons do sawing damage in PoE?!?

 

I want one...yeah baby!  Cutting damage over time!

 

Stand still, please!  Or even better...here comes Ash!  I want that Chainsaw fist!

 

Imagine your Monk with two!  Now THAT would really be a PoE Monk, right?

 

Oh hell yeah!

 

@gkathellar - oh man, you are ruining the fun!  Of course, you are right...but the fun...shucks.

 

[Luckmann]

 

 

The estoc with the -5 DR is going to be better than the polaxe with crush/slash best in pretty much every situation. Better to just enchant up your estoc and use the weapon switch for a warbow.

 

One thing I found out with reach weapons is that if I am engaged by a guy with a pike he can hit me but I can not hit him back unless I move and risk a disengagement attack. I assume that this works for the player as well. That would make reach weapons great for even the front line guys.

 

Yeah.. (Dis)Engagement is broken like that.

 

AFAICT  the engagement system is a mimic of the old Attack of Opportunity system in DnD.  reach weapons got an automatic AOO if you moved inside of their range, in all of the games that featured an AOO system that I recall.

 

the only real thing that has changed in this system that I can tell is the name.  probably "attack of opportunity" is trademarked by WotC or some such inanity.

 

 

 

 

Not true. I'm not going to restart the entire discussion on the merits or lack thereof when it comes to Engagement, but Attacks of Opportunity is different from Disengagement Attacks. In order to get an Disengagement Attack, you need to be engaged with the person that is moving away from you, either because you are attacking them (standard) or when they start attacking you (if you can engage more than 1 person). Even if you don't move around from them (which is the most grating issue if you ask me, because I often want to reposition *around* an enemy; not actually disengage them).

 

Attacks of Opportunity happens whenever someone passes through your zone of control, usually in a 5ft radius around you, whether you are engaged or not. There are lots of exceptions and special situations for this, but it is a very clear difference to Engagement.

 

In DnD, you could have a reach weapon to increase your zone of control and score Attacks of Opportunity to people trying to move through it. In PoE, you don't get increased Engagement range with your reach weapon for the purpose of anything like this, but you can still become engaged at a distance because of the engagement mechanics themselves, resulting in the (un)funny situation described.

 

Sometimes, if you aren't specifically engaging someone, the Engagement system can seem a lot like Attacks of Opportunity because you'll start engaging everything in range (a range not increased by reach, specifically because it broke Engagement even more than it is broken now) and cause instant, invisible, horrifying disengagement attacks, but they are distinct, in execution if not in purpose.

 

 

And I think that neither is necessary in a good RTwP game, either way. Movement is a "penalty" in itself and a tactical decision that takes time you'd spend on something else, and choke points are created by collision anyway.