Ive just completed PoE on Path of the Damned and heres my review

[Trauma_Hound]

 

This is a first edition RPG. Of course its systems are going to be horribly unbalanced. Look at how long it took D&D to get to which ever edition is your favourite.

You mean Pathfinder, right?

 

 

Pathfinder, what a snooze fest & more of a powergamers paradise than 3rd edition. It's all about 2nd edition, you know: where I didn't need a ****ing feat to side step. Imagination works well, I mean that's what the whole thing is about ... right? 

[Katarack21]

 

 

This is a first edition RPG. Of course its systems are going to be horribly unbalanced. Look at how long it took D&D to get to which ever edition is your favourite.

You mean Pathfinder, right?

 

 

Pathfinder, what a snooze fest & more of a powergamers paradise than 3rd edition. It's all about 2nd edition, you know: where I didn't need a ****ing feat to side step. Imagination works well, I mean that's what the whole thing is about ... right? 

 

You don't need a feat to 5-ft-step in 3rd edition. A five foot step is both a free action and doesn't invoke attacks of opportunity.

 

Also, I will never get tired of saying this: **** THACO. :-D

Edited April 6, 2015 by Katarack21

[Trauma_Hound]

 

 

 

This is a first edition RPG. Of course its systems are going to be horribly unbalanced. Look at how long it took D&D to get to which ever edition is your favourite.

You mean Pathfinder, right?

 

 

Pathfinder, what a snooze fest & more of a powergamers paradise than 3rd edition. It's all about 2nd edition, you know: where I didn't need a ****ing feat to side step. Imagination works well, I mean that's what the whole thing is about ... right? 

 

You don't need a feat to 5-ft-step in 3rd edition. A five foot step is both a free action and doesn't invoke attacks of opportunity.

 

Also, I will never get tired of saying this: **** THACO. :-D

 

 

Yeah but you can rewrite all that bull and make 2.75 to where you don't have Thac0 you just got regular AC and regular to hit. Give a little better bonuses for Stats below 16 and above 11 ... bham instant success. And yes, there was a feat for side stepping in one of the 3rd edition rule books, it's when I decided 3rd edition was absolute fail and anything replicating it is based in a system of fail.

 

Edit: Okay okay okay, and make one xp table and maybe if you really want to get nitpicky mod the Thac0 tables a little, though there really isn't a need to as AC doesn't get better than -10 (or 30 to your preference) in 2nd edition. See the thing about second edition is that it's simple and exceptionally brutal without needing all the fancy rules and names for stuff.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Trauma_Hound

[Katarack21]

 

 

 

 

This is a first edition RPG. Of course its systems are going to be horribly unbalanced. Look at how long it took D&D to get to which ever edition is your favourite.

You mean Pathfinder, right?

 

 

Pathfinder, what a snooze fest & more of a powergamers paradise than 3rd edition. It's all about 2nd edition, you know: where I didn't need a ****ing feat to side step. Imagination works well, I mean that's what the whole thing is about ... right? 

 

You don't need a feat to 5-ft-step in 3rd edition. A five foot step is both a free action and doesn't invoke attacks of opportunity.

 

Also, I will never get tired of saying this: **** THACO. :-D

 

 

Yeah but you can rewrite all that bull and make 2.75 to where you don't have Thac0 you just got regular AC and regular to hit. Give a little better bonuses for Stats below 16 and above 11 ... bham instant success. And yes, there was a feat for side stepping in one of the 3rd edition rule books, it's when I decided 3rd edition was absolute fail and anything replicating it is based in a system of fail.

 

Any system that requires modifying one of the core mechanics to such an extent is clearly a flawed system. D&D 3rd, 3.5, and Pathfinder may not be perfect systems, but 2nd Edition was just a very clunky and inelegant design.

[Trauma_Hound]

 

 

 

 

 

This is a first edition RPG. Of course its systems are going to be horribly unbalanced. Look at how long it took D&D to get to which ever edition is your favourite.

You mean Pathfinder, right?

 

 

Pathfinder, what a snooze fest & more of a powergamers paradise than 3rd edition. It's all about 2nd edition, you know: where I didn't need a ****ing feat to side step. Imagination works well, I mean that's what the whole thing is about ... right? 

 

You don't need a feat to 5-ft-step in 3rd edition. A five foot step is both a free action and doesn't invoke attacks of opportunity.

 

Also, I will never get tired of saying this: **** THACO. :-D

 

 

Yeah but you can rewrite all that bull and make 2.75 to where you don't have Thac0 you just got regular AC and regular to hit. Give a little better bonuses for Stats below 16 and above 11 ... bham instant success. And yes, there was a feat for side stepping in one of the 3rd edition rule books, it's when I decided 3rd edition was absolute fail and anything replicating it is based in a system of fail.

 

Any system that requires modifying one of the core mechanics to such an extent is clearly a flawed system. D&D 3rd, 3.5, and Pathfinder may not be perfect systems, but 2nd Edition was just a very clunky and inelegant design.

 

 

It's not modification it's interpretation for the idiots who can't do simple math?

[Katarack21]

 

 

 

 

 

 

This is a first edition RPG. Of course its systems are going to be horribly unbalanced. Look at how long it took D&D to get to which ever edition is your favourite.

You mean Pathfinder, right?

 

 

Pathfinder, what a snooze fest & more of a powergamers paradise than 3rd edition. It's all about 2nd edition, you know: where I didn't need a ****ing feat to side step. Imagination works well, I mean that's what the whole thing is about ... right? 

 

You don't need a feat to 5-ft-step in 3rd edition. A five foot step is both a free action and doesn't invoke attacks of opportunity.

 

Also, I will never get tired of saying this: **** THACO. :-D

 

 

Yeah but you can rewrite all that bull and make 2.75 to where you don't have Thac0 you just got regular AC and regular to hit. Give a little better bonuses for Stats below 16 and above 11 ... bham instant success. And yes, there was a feat for side stepping in one of the 3rd edition rule books, it's when I decided 3rd edition was absolute fail and anything replicating it is based in a system of fail.

 

Any system that requires modifying one of the core mechanics to such an extent is clearly a flawed system. D&D 3rd, 3.5, and Pathfinder may not be perfect systems, but 2nd Edition was just a very clunky and inelegant design.

 

 

It's not modification it's interpretation for the idiots who can't do simple math?

 

Yeah, 'cuz it's not like THACO and it's arcane, unintuitive computation and use is a standing joke among tabletop players or anything.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Katarack21

[Trauma_Hound]

Thac0 To Hit AC 0: Hey my Thac0 is a 5 ... what do I need to roll to hit an AC of 0? Oh wait ... a 5 - 20. Man that's some hard maff right der ...

[Katarack21]

Thac0 To Hit AC 0: Hey my Thac0 is a 5 ... what do I need to roll to hit an AC of 0? Oh wait ... a 5 - 20. Man that's some hard maff right der ...

Yes, if you are rolling against an armor class of 0 then THACO is easy to compute and easy to use. Thank god nobody in the history of D&D gaming ever became mystified and confused by having to use it to calculate to-hit in any other set up, otherwise it might have become the laughing stock of P&P RPG's the world over.

[scottyford]

What edition was Temple of Elemental Evil? Best combat in a D&D game ever. Obsidian should have just copied that.

[Caerdon]

While THAC0 is unintuitive, it's trivially easy to write things differently if using any kind of house rules. For example:

 

AC_new = 10 - AC_old

Accuracy = 20 - THAC0

(both start from zero and go up)

 

Now you just roll d20, add Accuracy, subtract AC, and if it's 10 or more, it's a hit.

[Katarack21]

While THAC0 is unintuitive, it's trivially easy to write things differently if using any kind of house rules. For example:

 

AC_new = 10 - AC_old

Accuracy = 20 - THAC0

(both start from zero and go up)

 

Now you just roll d20, add Accuracy, subtract AC, and if it's 10 or more, it's a hit.

 

Yes, I agree. My point is that the system as presented in the books, with THACO included, is difficult, clunky, inelegant, and unintuitive. That's the very reason that house rules became so very common, and that is exactly what lead into 3rd Edition. The pain of using THACO is the entire reason for the D20 system existing, period.

[Trauma_Hound]

 

While THAC0 is unintuitive, it's trivially easy to write things differently if using any kind of house rules. For example:

 

AC_new = 10 - AC_old

Accuracy = 20 - THAC0

(both start from zero and go up)

 

Now you just roll d20, add Accuracy, subtract AC, and if it's 10 or more, it's a hit.

 

Yes, I agree. My point is that the system as presented in the books, with THACO included, is difficult, clunky, inelegant, and unintuitive. That's the very reason that house rules became so very common, and that is exactly what lead into 3rd Edition. The pain of using THACO is the entire reason for the D20 system existing, period.

 

 

Thac0 is easy if you're attacking something with AC higher than 0 than you subtract that number. Thus if your Thac0 is 5 and you're rolling to hit AC 3 you need a 5 - 3 to hit. Why because 3 is WORSE than 0 if it had a -3 AC then you add it because - 3 was better. If you can't compute 5 - 3 and 5 + 3 then you're not very bright. At least for me I can do this just as fast as adding + 5 to  my D20 roll. You just add or subtract a number from your current Thac0 depending on their AC if it's more and less than 0. Easy day. It's that damn simple.

[Trauma_Hound]

Like hey .. my thac0 is 7 what's their ac? 4? okay so I have to roll a 3 or higher to hit them. WOW that's hard ...

[Monte Carlo]

 

 

This is a first edition RPG. Of course its systems are going to be horribly unbalanced. Look at how long it took D&D to get to which ever edition is your favourite.

You mean Pathfinder, right?

 

 

Pathfinder, what a snooze fest & more of a powergamers paradise than 3rd edition. It's all about 2nd edition, you know: where I didn't need a ****ing feat to side step. Imagination works well, I mean that's what the whole thing is about ... right? 

 

 

LOL. Really. L.O.L.

[adreeasa]

 In fact , why do you even care about the background  math of THACO  vs AC ? You just need to know it represents your to-hit-chance so keep it as high as possible, and you AC you defense vs getting whacked, so keep improving that as well , profit !!!

[Bhazor]

Ahhh, mentioning D&D editions. Guaranteed nerdbait.

[Caerdon]

Of course, while some D&D editions suck more than others, D&D and it's offshoots suck regardless of the edition.

[Trauma_Hound]

Of course, while some D&D editions suck more than others, D&D and it's offshoots suck regardless of the edition.

 

Yes, the best system is Alternity, it's virtually unbreakable.

[InfiniteEternity]

I agree with most of the points in the review although I don't really understand what you mean by 'threat' system - I find that the AI automatically homing in on your weakest member is slightly cheesy, and the tank (Eder) is much too capable of soaking up endless damage, so there is some balancing needed.

 

I'd still give it 9 so far and I'm only in Act 2, things keep impressing me.

 

Giving it 8/10 or even 7/10 - not to go off topic but can you recommend me some cRPGs that you give 9/10, in that case!!!

 

The problem with the threat system is that - there is none. Its based on melee Engagement ( I like that idea dont get me wrong) but there should be more to tanking that just scripts turning around/ retargetting and proximity based approaching.

 

I havent mentioned the spell system and the stealth in my review either. They really could use some help too. Its a bit sad most of the fights boil down to fireball/Toxic Cloud spamming and maybe an occasional mind control. 

 

The stealth system...ugh...not my cup of tea to spam it to find hidden objects/traps/important quest items tbh.

[Trauma_Hound]

 

I agree with most of the points in the review although I don't really understand what you mean by 'threat' system - I find that the AI automatically homing in on your weakest member is slightly cheesy, and the tank (Eder) is much too capable of soaking up endless damage, so there is some balancing needed.

 

I'd still give it 9 so far and I'm only in Act 2, things keep impressing me.

 

Giving it 8/10 or even 7/10 - not to go off topic but can you recommend me some cRPGs that you give 9/10, in that case!!!

 

The problem with the threat system is that - there is none. Its based on melee Engagement ( I like that idea dont get me wrong) but there should be more to tanking that just scripts turning around/ retargetting and proximity based approaching.

 

I havent mentioned the spell system and the stealth in my review either. They really could use some help too. Its a bit sad most of the fights boil down to fireball/Toxic Cloud spamming and maybe an occasional mind control. 

 

The stealth system...ugh...not my cup of tea to spam it to find hidden objects/traps/important quest items tbh.

 

 

The stealth/scout system is terrible I agree. The spell system could use some love, there's just a bunch of "useless" (as in barely ever get used) spells floating around to be honest. 

 

As to the threat system, yeah I can see what you mean, some guy might just take a sword to the back to try and cut down that spell caster in the back row. Though, I certainly don't like the idea of taunting and pulling aggro etc etc. 

[archangel979]

CONs:

 

- The stat system is very bad and nonsensical. Might gives ranged +damage% Wut? Intelligence gives +melee aoe% Wut?

I agree. I would rather see a more simulationist attribute system but I will not cry if this one is left as it is. 

- The threat system is non existent. I know its the way the old Infinity Engine works but I hate it. ATLEAST give sword&board Fighters a 1/2 per rest aoe taunt or just 2 encounter single Taunts or...atleast some threat producing aura. Ive had a few times where I got really frustreted because scripted mobs suddenly turns around after being tanked SOLELY by the tank and the script goes after lowest health partymember and theres no way stopping it. Poor design.

Fighter has that ability, it is called Into the Fray. Also you can take talent +1 engaged enemy. And PoE system has nothing to do with how IE games had it. And I am against any kind of Taunt system unless it is magical because calling someone to fight you does not mean they will magically fight you.

- Most dungeons are way too short and the puzzles are a joke.

15 lvl dungeon under your Keep is too short?! 

- The campfire Ressource system needs to go and we need free resting in ALL places instead with a chance of being waylayed, like in Baldurs Gate.

I totally and completely DISAGREE. If there is one thing they did absolutely better than IE games, it was limiting resting in a good way like this one. 

- The backer souls and the tombstones over the world made me feel like the world was less plausible and...not *real* ...way too excessive.

I agree. Tombstones I don't mind that much although I would have preferred to have them work like in BG1 where you click on individual ones to get a funny description but backer NPCs are terrible and do not fit. There should be an option to turn them all into commoners just standing there and making cities and villages look less empty.

Or move half them them into your Keep so the Keep is not terrible as it is currently

My answers in red. Edited April 6, 2015 by archangel979

[Zorfab]

What edition was Temple of Elemental Evil? Best combat in a D&D game ever. Obsidian should have just copied that.

Third Edition and yes, it´s the most faithful D&D game in terms of actual PnP system integration. Just have to play if with Circle of Eight mod installed, because Troika left the patching in unfinished state themselves.

 

Plot is not great, but it´s a conversion of an old school dungeon crawling module by Gygax and Mentzer which are more concerned with challenging the player (and killing them in horrific ways now and then ).

[Xavori]

My thotz on some of the complaints...

 

A true aggro system would have made combat management even easier, and really taken away some of the non-from-stat difficulty of things like beetles and shadows.  I liked have the occasional bit of chaos in fights because you couldn't control them.  This even made you consider a bit more carefully what kind of gear you'd put on your rear line characters.

 

I'm in total agreement on the rest system.  I understand why they did it versus unlimited rest everywhere, espec with a number of skills being per-rest.  However, the implementation ultimately accomplished nothing of value.  If you were so inclined, you could just turn around after ever few fights, bounce around to the various merchants to replenish your supplies, sleep at an inn, and then head back in.  This means that all the devs really added with this system was tedium.

 

I also agree on the puzzles being pretty mindless.  Then again, I'm not sure how you'd add something more complicated to the game since ultimately, all the devs have to work with are dialogue choices and quest items.  I suspect improving this part of the game would require some serious additions to the engine itself.

 

I also agree that the memorials and backer NPC's were seriously immersion breaking.  I get that this game needed the backers, and I'm as appreciative of them as the devs are since ultimately they made a game I enjoyed possible, but in the future, I think some other kind of freebies need to included, or if you're going to put your backers in the game, make sure that they 'fit' withing the world you created.

[Monte Carlo]

Ahhh, mentioning D&D editions. Guaranteed nerdbait.

 

Er, we're on a forum dedicated to an old-skool homage CRPG. We're already deep in that territory, baby.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Monte Carlo

[Schakar]

 

 

- The campfire Ressource system needs to go and we need free resting in ALL places instead with a chance of being waylayed, like in Baldurs Gate.

 

 

Restspamming after every single fight was the worst thing about Baldurs Gate. I´m glad it´s gone.

 

And the limited resource concept isn't that bad too. I had no problem to do 3 or 4 fights peer camp. Many times I cleared a hole level/map before I needed a rest. Just some adjustments should do it. Mainly Wizards should get more "peer fight" skills. Maybe a small fire-, lightning-, mental- or ice-ball depending on char creation (THE standart spell of every Wizard in every game) with 5-10 uses/fight which you get on level 1.

 

I finaly finished the game too today . And it's a great game (to short ... like all great games *g*). Except for the pathfinding which is still terrible . Had to restart the final fight as my group totaly refused to walk as I told them to do.

My tanks didn't move between the mobs and my group, the healer allways tryed to run behind the mobs when I comand him to cast, the summons from my Chanter, Wizard and Druids refused to attack at all ... it was a nightmare .

 

But over all great and consistent storry, nice graphic, nice sound/musik (would be even better if every dialog had speech), cool races, sub-races and classes.

 

Worth the money with space to improve .

- dungeon with respawning mobs

- let us go on after we disabled the machine so we can finish all open quests

- fix the damn pathfinding