Seems like XP balance is out of whack

[NoQuitt]

 

 

The best thing to do if you want more challenge is probably play "as intended" on hard, or buy hires ASAP and play with a full party on PotD if you want to do a bunch of side-content.

 

Yeah I decided to quit my hard mode run and start up a new run on PotD with a full custom party. I am going to be skipping bounties so hopefully without the bounty and companion quest exp I can still do all of the side quests without becoming over leveled. 

[mdrgp]

I think Josh once said in an interview that this was intended. That doing all the side quests will get you to the level cap before the last part of the game.

 

And it's not surprising at all. It makes sense. Maybe your character doesn't go in every house in a town, doesn't speak with every person they see, doesn't care about a cult near a small town that isn't even in his way. Maybe he hates Wael so why go in his temple? Maybe he is against animancery so why even talk with animancers when he could instead be stabbing them in the face when no guard is around. Or even when guards are around. It's not like that didn't happened constantly in the past 100 years.

 

If you want to do just the main story you should have a fair chance, not be punished that you didn't care about a crazy lord in a town or about the sobbing woman in an inn.

And it's not like the previous IE games were different. In BG1 I reached the level cap while halfway trough Tales of the Sword Coast.

[sparklecat]

There's a world of difference between "have to do absolutely everything to hit the level cap" and "noooo, don't worry, we're not going to penalize you by making the game significantly harder if you want to skip 90% of it, it's fine!"

[danielkx]

I think most of us would agree that the game can be challenging at early levels but then once you get midway in leveling it becomes very easy.

 

Simple solution 1: Reduce how much xp is gained through side quests, disarming traps and discovering new locations.

 

Simple solution 2: Increase how much xp is needed to advance levels. Either uniform like it is now (extra 1k xp on top of what was needed from the prior level to advance to the next level) but make it so instead of 1k xp extra you need 3k. Or maybe keep it at the current progression level but once you reach level 6 instead of needing 1k on top of what was needed to level prior level, you need 4k extra.

[View619]

Anybody know the total experience points you need to reach the level cap?

[Tigranes]

I think most of us would agree that the game can be challenging at early levels but then once you get midway in leveling it becomes very easy.

 

Simple solution 1: Reduce how much xp is gained through side quests, disarming traps and discovering new locations.

 

Simple solution 2: Increase how much xp is needed to advance levels. Either uniform like it is now (extra 1k xp on top of what was needed from the prior level to advance to the next level) but make it so instead of 1k xp extra you need 3k. Or maybe keep it at the current progression level but once you reach level 6 instead of needing 1k on top of what was needed to level prior level, you need 4k extra.

 

2 would be the easiest solution. Couldn't someone just unpack the asset files, find a leveling table, and change the numbers?

[Atheosis]

I think most of us would agree that the game can be challenging at early levels but then once you get midway in leveling it becomes very easy.

 

Simple solution 1: Reduce how much xp is gained through side quests, disarming traps and discovering new locations.

 

Simple solution 2: Increase how much xp is needed to advance levels. Either uniform like it is now (extra 1k xp on top of what was needed from the prior level to advance to the next level) but make it so instead of 1k xp extra you need 3k. Or maybe keep it at the current progression level but once you reach level 6 instead of needing 1k on top of what was needed to level prior level, you need 4k extra.

 

Simple solution 3: Wait for a mod to do these things while the rest of us enjoy the game as it was intended.

[Atheosis]

 

I think most of us would agree that the game can be challenging at early levels but then once you get midway in leveling it becomes very easy.

 

Simple solution 1: Reduce how much xp is gained through side quests, disarming traps and discovering new locations.

 

Simple solution 2: Increase how much xp is needed to advance levels. Either uniform like it is now (extra 1k xp on top of what was needed from the prior level to advance to the next level) but make it so instead of 1k xp extra you need 3k. Or maybe keep it at the current progression level but once you reach level 6 instead of needing 1k on top of what was needed to level prior level, you need 4k extra.

 

2 would be the easiest solution. Couldn't someone just unpack the asset files, find a leveling table, and change the numbers?

 

 

Yeah, I would imagine it would be a super simple mod to create.  Not that I have any clue how to mod this game...

[View619]

 

I think most of us would agree that the game can be challenging at early levels but then once you get midway in leveling it becomes very easy.

 

Simple solution 1: Reduce how much xp is gained through side quests, disarming traps and discovering new locations.

 

Simple solution 2: Increase how much xp is needed to advance levels. Either uniform like it is now (extra 1k xp on top of what was needed from the prior level to advance to the next level) but make it so instead of 1k xp extra you need 3k. Or maybe keep it at the current progression level but once you reach level 6 instead of needing 1k on top of what was needed to level prior level, you need 4k extra.

 

Simple solution 3: Wait for a mod to do these things while the rest of us enjoy the game as it was intended.

 

 

This discussion is how ideas for mods are created. Number two seems to be the easier option, assuming all the data on experience caps is in one area.

[markelphoenix]

Am I the only one thinking hell to the no on lowering the exp?

 

Leave it as is. Not everyone will want to do ALL the content.

 

Also, I imagine the expansions are going to raise level cap. Would be nice to hit into some of those levels in a new play through before getting to expansion content.

 

Hell, I'd rather they add more levels of progression than nerf exp.

[Cronstintein]

It's weird because almost all other RPGs already do this (rapidly increased xp requirements), I guess we can see why.

 

Solution 2 definitely sounds like the easier mod.

[sparklecat]

Solution 2 might be easier, but solution 1 lets them leave the critical path balance alone.

[NoQuitt]

 

I think most of us would agree that the game can be challenging at early levels but then once you get midway in leveling it becomes very easy.

 

Simple solution 1: Reduce how much xp is gained through side quests, disarming traps and discovering new locations.

 

Simple solution 2: Increase how much xp is needed to advance levels. Either uniform like it is now (extra 1k xp on top of what was needed from the prior level to advance to the next level) but make it so instead of 1k xp extra you need 3k. Or maybe keep it at the current progression level but once you reach level 6 instead of needing 1k on top of what was needed to level prior level, you need 4k extra.

 

2 would be the easiest solution. Couldn't someone just unpack the asset files, find a leveling table, and change the numbers?

 

 

I would love it if someone modded the exp in such a way that even after doing the vast majority of the content, I am still not reaching the level cap until towards the end game. This would make me a very happy man

[Atheosis]

Am I the only one thinking hell to the no on lowering the exp?

 

Leave it as is. Not everyone will want to do ALL the content.

 

Also, I imagine the expansions are going to raise level cap. Would be nice to hit into some of those levels in a new play through before getting to expansion content.

 

Hell, I'd rather they add more levels of progression than nerf exp.

 

No you are not the only one.

[Cronstintein]

I think the smart way to do it is to give huge xp gains for finishing major plot missions and only minor xp for side-quest stuff.  So that you can kind of know where the player will be xp-wise at any given point in the story. 

[danielkx]

I think the smart way to do it is to give huge xp gains for finishing major plot missions and only minor xp for side-quest stuff.  So that you can kind of know where the player will be xp-wise at any given point in the story. 

 

Yes, reducing the amount of xp gained through side quests and other things would likely make for a more efficient system...that does however require more effort for modders. I assume we will see a mod increasing how much xp is needed to gain levels far before a mod or patch that changes how much xp is given for various things.

[sparklecat]

They could also tie amount of xp given to difficulty, as I've seen suggested; let people playing on easy for just the main story continue getting tons of xp, without requiring those playing on hard to have to choose between, y'know, doing the sidequests and still having combat be a challenge.  Presumably getting overlevelled so that combat becomes easier is not a large concern for you if you are already playing on the easiest setting.

Edited April 6, 2015 by sparklecat

[Trauma_Hound]

Does anyone have the numbers for total XP earned over the entire game? You will have to base numbers off of that. To me, the level ups in this game are rather lack luster, but I guess as a group game they kind of need to be or else it would be way too easy (and it's already pretty easy on Hard Mode with Expert Option on).

[danielkx]

Does anyone have the numbers for total XP earned over the entire game? You will have to base numbers off of that. To me, the level ups in this game are rather lack luster, but I guess as a group game they kind of need to be or else it would be way too easy (and it's already pretty easy on Hard Mode with Expert Option on).

 

To get to level 12 you need 66k xp for each party member.

[mdrgp]

There's a world of difference between "have to do absolutely everything to hit the level cap" and "noooo, don't worry, we're not going to penalize you by making the game significantly harder if you want to skip 90% of it, it's fine!"

Let's not take it to the other extreme though. We both know that doing just the main quests is not enough to reach the level cap.

 

And as it is now the game allows you freedom of choice and thus roleplay. You are free to ignore quests as most of the time their rewards are rather lackluster. What is better? Give the player a vast choice of quests that allows him to reach the level cap without needing to do all of them, allowing him to craft a better role playing experience in a RPG, or increase the experience needed thus possibly forcing him to do more quests, some of them which would go against the character he is roleplaying.

 

Right now you certainly need to do over half the sidequests to reach the level cap. You need to spend quite some time in every town, enter every single building and speak with every single not goldplated NPC.

 

Also this is what the developers intended. They wanted for you to reach the level cap before the final stretch of the game if you were a completionist.

[sparklecat]

You don't need to reach the level cap to complete the game, however, meaning effectively you are not penalized for skipping quests you don't want to do.  I believe the main path is balanced so it's possible to finish at level 8.

[PrimeJunta]

IMO having to complete only "over half" the side content to hit level cap is indicative of a problem. As is having players hit Dyrford at level 10. That sort of thing does ruin the experience.

 

I don't know how that could be solved though without either (1) making side content effectively mandatory because if you don't do it you'll be underleveled in the endgame, (2) making side content so unrewarding in XP it stops being much fun, or (3) level scaling. Pick your poison.

[danielkx]

IMO having to complete only "over half" the side content to hit level cap is indicative of a problem. As is having players hit Dyrford at level 10. That sort of thing does ruin the experience.

 

I don't know how that could be solved though without either (1) making side content effectively mandatory because if you don't do it you'll be underleveled in the endgame, (2) making side content so unrewarding in XP it stops being much fun, or (3) level scaling. Pick your poison.

Or like I suggested, make it so you need more xp to gain levels.

 

I would say getting to level 4 should be about the same as it is now, however gaining levels beyond that should take considerably more xp.

[View619]

 

IMO having to complete only "over half" the side content to hit level cap is indicative of a problem. As is having players hit Dyrford at level 10. That sort of thing does ruin the experience.

 

I don't know how that could be solved though without either (1) making side content effectively mandatory because if you don't do it you'll be underleveled in the endgame, (2) making side content so unrewarding in XP it stops being much fun, or (3) level scaling. Pick your poison.

Or like I suggested, make it so you need more xp to gain levels.

 

I would say getting to level 4 should be about the same as it is now, however gaining levels beyond that should take considerably more xp.

 

 

This is effectively making side content a requirement to avoid being under-leveled for the end-game, though.

Edited April 6, 2015 by View619

[Mashiki]

 

 

This is effectively making side content a requirement to avoid being under-leveled for the end-game, though.

 

 

That's pretty much it right there.  Not everyone is going to do all of the side content, I'd hazard a guess that they figured the average player would complete 25-35% of the side quests and balanced it around that.  Remember those of us who are posting on the forums, are the minority in this case and past experience(by app reporting and so on -- see the stories on ME2/3 on this for example) is most people only do some of the quests.