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Beardedgeek72

The portrait selection is beyond awful (I am sure someone else has posted this already)

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I'm not normally one to praise Dragon Age but their custom portrait system was great. Spent 60 hours with a crosseyed, off center dwarf facing the wrong direction on a neon pink background and could not be happier.

 

I found it to be absolutely horrid. 3D portraits have no place in a game like Pillars of Eternity (Or Dragon Age: Origins at that)

 

As pointed out there is a metric ton of custom portraits available on the internet - Not for the three "original" races of course, but you can get lucky at times and find one that fits - or adjust it yourself to match.

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7411861/Andet/PoE_portraits_05_04.rar

 

Here's my personal collection of (processed) portraits for the game. Just the ones I've given some personal attention in photoshop to match the dimensions and theme of the game.

 

What is horrid about it? It looks good, and is the logical conclusion of actually being able to modify your character. 

My point is that the two system clashes, a problem that IWD and BG didn't have (or Fallout for that matter): You cannot both have a detailed in depth visual character creation process AND handpainted 2D portraits. Because they clash. If I spend 30 minutes building my blond mohawk pirate elf, I want a portrait that at least REMOTELY look like that.

In BG and BG2 that wasn't an issue because quite frankly you could not customize your characters enough for it to matter.

 

Btw Shadowrun Returns had the generic portrait option, a black silhouette, for each race and gender if you couldn't find one you liked.There is one "generic" file in the art folder in this game but it is not used, it seems.

 

As for your file: Thank you. I mean it. But I have already looked at, and discarded, all of those.

 

Btw as it looks now  I am going back to one of three options:

 

The hooded pale elf. The hood looks awesome but the skin color is too white. 

The hooded (blue with pattern) human female. The skin color is awesome but the hood is a little too garish for me.

The hooded (white with pattern) human female. The skin color is too dark, however.

If I could get the face of the caucasian human with the black assassin hood of the pale elf... that would be perfect. I can live with only seeing the mouth and nose, because that allows me to create the rest as I want.

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Basically what the thread title says.

 

Too few portraits. Too little variation.

 

Here is a riddle for you: Why go through the hassle of making 3D models with detailed choices for looks, if you are still going to use Portraits for characters and not a still picture from the character creation process (like Dragon Age. It's brilliant)?

 

I have yet to start this game 3 days after installing it because I have been desperately trying to find a custom portrait online that looks like the character I want to create. Of course those portraits will clash like hell against the game UI, but what can you do...

If you're having so much problems finding a custom portrait for THREE DAYS then the issue comes down more with you as opposed to the portrait selection. Don't get me wrong, it does need more variations but struggling to play the game because you can't find your own portrait of your liking (of which there is plenty on the web) is an issue of your own.

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The real issue is that there are 3(6) races that have portraits with no visual overlap(Aumaua, Orlan, Godlike). If you take Baldur's Gate, for instance, you could use a lot of portraits interchangably between most races. Dwarves kind of required beards and Elves had pointy ears(And many portraits obscure ears), but that was about it.

 

In terms of pure quantity, PoE wins hands down. However, because of the visual distinctiveness of 3(6) races, and the fact that existing portraits are too revealing(Showing pointy ears, for instance), the selection is drastically reduced for all races, and pretty much singular in some instances.

 

For the Aumaua, the Orlans, and the Godlikes, there's no real fix. They need more race- and subrace-specific portraits. With the rest, overlap is possible if they're made properly. Humans are interchangeable with Elves and Dwarves, Elves with Humans, and Dwarves with Humans. Just keep the visual distinctions(Ears, beards) ambiguous.

Edited by Tartantyco
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"You're a fool if you believe I would trust your benevolence. Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt."


 


 


Baldur's Gate portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale 2 portraits for Pillars of Eternity


 


[slap Aloth]

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The real issue is that there are 3(6) races that have portraits with no visual overlap(Aumaua, Orlan, Godlike). If you take Baldur's Gate, for instance, you could use a lot of portraits interchangably between most races. Dwarves kind of required beards and Elves had pointy ears(And many portraits obscure ears), but that was about it.

 

In terms of pure quantity, PoE wins hands down. However, because of the visual distinctiveness of 3(6) races, and the fact that existing portraits are too revealing(Showing pointy ears, for instance), the selection is drastically reduced for all races, and pretty much singular in some instances.

 

For the Aumaua, the Orlans, and the Godlikes, there's no real fix. They need more race- and subrace-specific portraits. With the rest, overlap is possible if they're made properly. Humans are interchangeable with Elves and Dwarves, Elves with Humans, and Dwarves with Humans. Just keep the visual distinctions(Ears, beards) ambiguous.

 

Quite correct.

 

Especially considering there are several types of Godlikes, and they don't look alike.

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Devs did mention in the backer beta forum during the beta feedback process that they would continue to make and release character portraits post-full release. I can't recall the precise scheduling -- I don't think it was actually stated with certainty -- but the implication was it would be part of the pre-mapped patch schedule at some point down the track. So we should see new portraits "soon" ei: before the expansion pack hits.

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I agree the portrait selection is terrible. I mean the Godlikes only have 1!! Oh well, I guess it is fairly straightforward to add custom portraits? It doesn't say how in the manual..

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Devs did mention in the backer beta forum during the beta feedback process that they would continue to make and release character portraits post-full release. I can't recall the precise scheduling -- I don't think it was actually stated with certainty -- but the implication was it would be part of the pre-mapped patch schedule at some point down the track. So we should see new portraits "soon" ei: before the expansion pack hits.

 

I can't say one way or the other about this specifically, but I will say all of your concerns have been vigorously noted, and it is very helpful to hear here and in other threads what you all are finding lacking in the portrait selection. In fact, if someone were to set up a poll for responders to submit what they are seeking most, that would be even more helpful~

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Devs did mention in the backer beta forum during the beta feedback process that they would continue to make and release character portraits post-full release. I can't recall the precise scheduling -- I don't think it was actually stated with certainty -- but the implication was it would be part of the pre-mapped patch schedule at some point down the track. So we should see new portraits "soon" ei: before the expansion pack hits.

 

I can't say one way or the other about this specifically, but I will say all of your concerns have been vigorously noted, and it is very helpful to hear here and in other threads what you all are finding lacking in the portrait selection. In fact, if someone were to set up a poll for responders to submit what they are seeking most, that would be even more helpful~

 

 

 

Poll incoming in 3... 2... 1...

 

and here it is

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/75849-which-classes-and-races-new-portraits-would-you-like-to-see-next/

Edited by DocDoomII

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Devs did mention in the backer beta forum during the beta feedback process that they would continue to make and release character portraits post-full release. I can't recall the precise scheduling -- I don't think it was actually stated with certainty -- but the implication was it would be part of the pre-mapped patch schedule at some point down the track. So we should see new portraits "soon" ei: before the expansion pack hits.

 

I can't say one way or the other about this specifically, but I will say all of your concerns have been vigorously noted, and it is very helpful to hear here and in other threads what you all are finding lacking in the portrait selection. In fact, if someone were to set up a poll for responders to submit what they are seeking most, that would be even more helpful~

 

 

Not familiar enough with this forum to set up a poll yet (I am still being audited as a newcomer for example) but:

 

1. More portraits for the unique races.

2. More ambigious portraits, as stated above.

3. At least one portrait per race for the available hair colors and 2-3 of the skin colors. 

4. At least one portrait per race using a non-standard hairdo, like the mohawk or "bald with braids".

 

Also, is it just me or is everyone so... nice? How about some drunk, angry, scared, etc faces?

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It's an odd thing because the painted look of portraits is a big part of the charm of these games, for me, but at the same time it is frustrating (granted, in a #firstworldproblems sense :) ) not to be able to have a portrait that matches the character you've created.

 

Maybe for an expansion, Obsidian could commission a ton more portraits, and have the character creator START with portrait selection.  That way, you create the 3-d avatar according to the "feel" you get from the portrait you choose at the beginning?

 

Or, what about having a portrait creator similar the amazing character creation in EVE Online?  That way you could have an incredibly rich and detailed 3-d creation for just the portrait (tons of options, backgrounds, lighting, etc.), then you take a posed "photo" of it?  Then you model the actual in-game 3-d avatar as a simplified version of that?

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Maybe for an expansion, Obsidian could commission a ton more portraits, and have the character creator START with portrait selection.  That way, you create the 3-d avatar according to the "feel" you get from the portrait you choose at the beginning?

 

This is actually a big part of it. As it stands now you put all that time into designing your character, THEN you find out there isn't a portrait that works with him or her... Shadowrun Returns did it the other way around, and that is much, much better.

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Death godlikes definitely need more portraits because there's head options that don't match any of the existing ones.  

 

And the race is unique enough that you can't find matching portraits online.  For humans/elves/dwarves the problem is easilly solved by doing online image searches, but death godlikes are unique enough that you're not going to find anything that fits.

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Maybe for an expansion, Obsidian could commission a ton more portraits, and have the character creator START with portrait selection.  That way, you create the 3-d avatar according to the "feel" you get from the portrait you choose at the beginning?

 

This is actually a big part of it. As it stands now you put all that time into designing your character, THEN you find out there isn't a portrait that works with him or her... Shadowrun Returns did it the other way around, and that is much, much better.

 

I definitely agree.

 

I think I'm pretty reasonable in general, I don't expect to have a portrait for every conceivable combination.  But there are some really obvious, large-scale omissions from the current portrait pool.

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I'm not normally one to praise Dragon Age but their custom portrait system was great. Spent 60 hours with a crosseyed, off center dwarf facing the wrong direction on a neon pink background and could not be happier.

 

I found it to be absolutely horrid. 3D portraits have no place in a game like Pillars of Eternity (Or Dragon Age: Origins at that)

 

As pointed out there is a metric ton of custom portraits available on the internet - Not for the three "original" races of course, but you can get lucky at times and find one that fits - or adjust it yourself to match.

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7411861/Andet/PoE_portraits_05_04.rar

 

Here's my personal collection of (processed) portraits for the game. Just the ones I've given some personal attention in photoshop to match the dimensions and theme of the game.

 

What is horrid about it? It looks good, and is the logical conclusion of actually being able to modify your character. 

My point is that the two system clashes, a problem that IWD and BG didn't have (or Fallout for that matter): You cannot both have a detailed in depth visual character creation process AND handpainted 2D portraits. Because they clash. If I spend 30 minutes building my blond mohawk pirate elf, I want a portrait that at least REMOTELY look like that.

In BG and BG2 that wasn't an issue because quite frankly you could not customize your characters enough for it to matter.

 

Btw Shadowrun Returns had the generic portrait option, a black silhouette, for each race and gender if you couldn't find one you liked.There is one "generic" file in the art folder in this game but it is not used, it seems.

 

As for your file: Thank you. I mean it. But I have already looked at, and discarded, all of those.

 

Btw as it looks now  I am going back to one of three options:

 

The hooded pale elf. The hood looks awesome but the skin color is too white. 

The hooded (blue with pattern) human female. The skin color is awesome but the hood is a little too garish for me.

The hooded (white with pattern) human female. The skin color is too dark, however.

If I could get the face of the caucasian human with the black assassin hood of the pale elf... that would be perfect. I can live with only seeing the mouth and nose, because that allows me to create the rest as I want.

 

i tried combining the ones you wanted, http://imgur.com/5r1zTwz :)

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I'm not normally one to praise Dragon Age but their custom portrait system was great. Spent 60 hours with a crosseyed, off center dwarf facing the wrong direction on a neon pink background and could not be happier.

 

I found it to be absolutely horrid. 3D portraits have no place in a game like Pillars of Eternity (Or Dragon Age: Origins at that)

 

As pointed out there is a metric ton of custom portraits available on the internet - Not for the three "original" races of course, but you can get lucky at times and find one that fits - or adjust it yourself to match.

 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7411861/Andet/PoE_portraits_05_04.rar

 

Here's my personal collection of (processed) portraits for the game. Just the ones I've given some personal attention in photoshop to match the dimensions and theme of the game.

 

What is horrid about it? It looks good, and is the logical conclusion of actually being able to modify your character. 

My point is that the two system clashes, a problem that IWD and BG didn't have (or Fallout for that matter): You cannot both have a detailed in depth visual character creation process AND handpainted 2D portraits. Because they clash. If I spend 30 minutes building my blond mohawk pirate elf, I want a portrait that at least REMOTELY look like that.

In BG and BG2 that wasn't an issue because quite frankly you could not customize your characters enough for it to matter.

 

Btw Shadowrun Returns had the generic portrait option, a black silhouette, for each race and gender if you couldn't find one you liked.There is one "generic" file in the art folder in this game but it is not used, it seems.

 

As for your file: Thank you. I mean it. But I have already looked at, and discarded, all of those.

 

Btw as it looks now  I am going back to one of three options:

 

The hooded pale elf. The hood looks awesome but the skin color is too white. 

The hooded (blue with pattern) human female. The skin color is awesome but the hood is a little too garish for me.

The hooded (white with pattern) human female. The skin color is too dark, however.

If I could get the face of the caucasian human with the black assassin hood of the pale elf... that would be perfect. I can live with only seeing the mouth and nose, because that allows me to create the rest as I want.

 

i tried combining the ones you wanted, http://imgur.com/5r1zTwz :)

 

 

Thank you thank you thankyouthankyouthankyou!!!

 

...Also, thank you.

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Yeah. I remember pointing out this as a problem with the backer beta back when it first started. There are far too few portraits, and they're not properly segregated--a male orlan, for example, shouldn't be able to use the portrait of a female elf.

 

Sadly, as was the case with Wasteland 2, the portraits in the beta were all the portraits in the release version. Clearly, Obisidian has a number of talented artists: instead of having them do little sketches for each and every Bestiary entry, I think we'd all have been better served with more portraits.

 

 

Subject would have better read "I Did Not Find a Portrait That Fit My Individual Character Concept." There are a lot of official portraits available. Many more than BG/BG2/IWD. Most of them are fantastic. Other portraits are available online, as you've already mentioned. It is not the responsibility of the developers to produce a visual representation of the exact image in your mind.

 

That is absolutely not true. There may seem to be a lot of portraits, but that's only because they're all lumped together--every race and gender in one big pool. If you want to play as a female Orlan, for example, you have only 3 choices; if you want to play as a female Wild Orlan, you've only 1.

 

Let's handle this paragraph by paragraph.

 

First: You should be able to use whatever portrait you like for your character, regardless of gender. It is 2015.

 

Second: Obsidian added many portraits over the course of the beta and tweaked even more. This was clearly an ongoing effort. Many of the portraits that appeared in the shipping version were absent from the beta even a few weeks before launch.

 

Third: By my count, BG launched with 20 male portraits and 12 female. Most overlapped with existing NPC companions, further limiting the selection. BG2 launched with the same portrait selection + a few extras for the new companions. POE currently includes 67 official portraits. When you provide more than twice as many options as the gold standard you are trying to replicate, that can be objectively considered "a lot." Show me all the other games that have significantly more hand painted character portraits and I will concede this point.

 

Additionally: As another poster noted, many of the official BG portraits were racially ambiguous to increase options. Only a handful clearly belonged to one race or another, and were almost always dwarves. BG2 introduced the Half-Orc and provided only a single Half-Orc portrait. POE provides similar flexibility, while also providing at least a few options for each of the more unique race/gender combinations. It clearly exceeds reasonable expectations.

 

While not everything about this game is perfect, Obsidian did an excellent job with the portraits and they deserve recognition.

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I find the number of given portraits fine, all things considered, and I think they're all very nicely done. But since I'm not a role-player, I get tired of the typical fantasy-art looks. I may turn them all into cats with hats. I'm not joking.


“Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts

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I have yet to start this game 3 days after installing it because I have been desperately trying to find a custom portrait online that looks like the character I want to create.

 

#1stworldproblems

 

 

Sure it is not game breaking or anything.

 

This is the forum for the game and he felt like saying it so what's the big deal ?

 

Let the people voice their opinions.

 

 

Every opinion is valid, but every criticism is not.

 

"The portrait selection is beyond awful" is a criticism and it is not valid.

 

He was free to voice his criticism and now others are free to respond.

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Yeah. I remember pointing out this as a problem with the backer beta back when it first started. There are far too few portraits, and they're not properly segregated--a male orlan, for example, shouldn't be able to use the portrait of a female elf.

 

Sadly, as was the case with Wasteland 2, the portraits in the beta were all the portraits in the release version. Clearly, Obisidian has a number of talented artists: instead of having them do little sketches for each and every Bestiary entry, I think we'd all have been better served with more portraits.

 

 

Subject would have better read "I Did Not Find a Portrait That Fit My Individual Character Concept." There are a lot of official portraits available. Many more than BG/BG2/IWD. Most of them are fantastic. Other portraits are available online, as you've already mentioned. It is not the responsibility of the developers to produce a visual representation of the exact image in your mind.

 

That is absolutely not true. There may seem to be a lot of portraits, but that's only because they're all lumped together--every race and gender in one big pool. If you want to play as a female Orlan, for example, you have only 3 choices; if you want to play as a female Wild Orlan, you've only 1.

 

Let's handle this paragraph by paragraph.

 

First: You should be able to use whatever portrait you like for your character, regardless of gender. It is 2015.

 

Second: Obsidian added many portraits over the course of the beta and tweaked even more. This was clearly an ongoing effort. Many of the portraits that appeared in the shipping version were absent from the beta even a few weeks before launch.

 

Third: By my count, BG launched with 20 male portraits and 12 female. Most overlapped with existing NPC companions, further limiting the selection. BG2 launched with the same portrait selection + a few extras for the new companions. POE currently includes 67 official portraits. When you provide more than twice as many options as the gold standard you are trying to replicate, that can be objectively considered "a lot." Show me all the other games that have significantly more hand painted character portraits and I will concede this point.

 

I am not arguing that the number of portraits are too few compared to BG2. I am arguing that the number of portraits, due to the character customization possibilities, are too few. A major reason for this of course is that unless the game provides a portrait for every single combination (male wild orlan with black fur, male wild orlan with red fur, female elf with mohawk etc) it will FEEL like too few options, because the whole 2D portraits mechanics do not play nice with the 3D models and the options given to the player there.

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Yeah. I remember pointing out this as a problem with the backer beta back when it first started. There are far too few portraits, and they're not properly segregated--a male orlan, for example, shouldn't be able to use the portrait of a female elf.

 

Sadly, as was the case with Wasteland 2, the portraits in the beta were all the portraits in the release version. Clearly, Obisidian has a number of talented artists: instead of having them do little sketches for each and every Bestiary entry, I think we'd all have been better served with more portraits.

 

 

Subject would have better read "I Did Not Find a Portrait That Fit My Individual Character Concept." There are a lot of official portraits available. Many more than BG/BG2/IWD. Most of them are fantastic. Other portraits are available online, as you've already mentioned. It is not the responsibility of the developers to produce a visual representation of the exact image in your mind.

 

That is absolutely not true. There may seem to be a lot of portraits, but that's only because they're all lumped together--every race and gender in one big pool. If you want to play as a female Orlan, for example, you have only 3 choices; if you want to play as a female Wild Orlan, you've only 1.

 

Let's handle this paragraph by paragraph.

 

First: You should be able to use whatever portrait you like for your character, regardless of gender. It is 2015.

 

Second: Obsidian added many portraits over the course of the beta and tweaked even more. This was clearly an ongoing effort. Many of the portraits that appeared in the shipping version were absent from the beta even a few weeks before launch.

 

Third: By my count, BG launched with 20 male portraits and 12 female. Most overlapped with existing NPC companions, further limiting the selection. BG2 launched with the same portrait selection + a few extras for the new companions. POE currently includes 67 official portraits. When you provide more than twice as many options as the gold standard you are trying to replicate, that can be objectively considered "a lot." Show me all the other games that have significantly more hand painted character portraits and I will concede this point.

 

I am not arguing that the number of portraits are too few compared to BG2. I am arguing that the number of portraits, due to the character customization possibilities, are too few. A major reason for this of course is that unless the game provides a portrait for every single combination (male wild orlan with black fur, male wild orlan with red fur, female elf with mohawk etc) it will FEEL like too few options, because the whole 2D portraits mechanics do not play nice with the 3D models and the options given to the player there.

 

 

Those points did not appear in your original argument.

 

Unfortunately, the game requires avatars in order to interact with the world. Providing no customization options for those avatars would have met with resistance as well. Providing hand painted representations for each customization option would have been financially impractical.

 

Short of eliminating portraits or avatars, it's hard to see an alternative that you could advocate as part of your criticism. There will never be enough portraits to fit all the ideas in our imaginations. Therefore, your criticism is unreasonable.

 

I restate:

 

Obsidian did an excellent job with the portraits and they deserve recognition.

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