I hate hate hate auto-leveled companions

[Spivo]

I would prefer if I were able to change each new companions race/class/attributes and skills when I met them, that way I'd get full control over any bad decision they made.

To me it doesn't feel right that Alroth is an elf, or a wizard for that matter.

Alternative, let us at least meet all possible companions outside the ruins, they could have a social gathering, and then we can chose them there to avoid them being "wrong" in the players eyes.

 

I'd like a mod where I could change every monster ability to align with what I think they should be.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Spivo

[ChipMHazard]

I would prefer if I were able to change each new companions race/class/attributes and skills when I met them, that way I'd get full control over any bad decision they made.

To me it doesn't feel right that Alroth is an elf, or a wizard for that matter.

Alternative, let us at least meet all possible companions outside the ruins, they could have a social gathering, and then we can chose them there to avoid them being "wrong" in the players eyes.

 

I'd like a mod where I could change every monster ability to align with what I think they should be.

 

Hilarious... You done hyperbolizing now?

[Luj1]

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

[ChipMHazard]

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

 

Obviously, doesn't mean it's not a silly hyperbole. 

[Spivo]

 

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic.

 

Obviously, doesn't mean it's not a silly hyperbole. 

 

Just wanted to contribute to the hyberbole thread.

 

It's all about finding problems, and not understanding how it would be if it was opposite.

The system allows you to NOT rush to find characters early, so you don't end up finding a lvl 1 companion when your party are lvl 10, because then people would complain how finding a lvl 1 character near the end is worthless.

 

And it would not make sense to find a lvl 9 character who has not spend any skill/talent points. He is lvl 9, and should be lvl 9 in all aspects.

 

Everything else is for modding, cheating etc... and I am sure it will be available. But what people want is full control over an npc, in all aspects and that is not what rpg's are about, in my view.

It has been like this in all IE games, and all TSR rpg's. The npc's com at a certain lvl, and what they've done till then is out of your control. Pretty generous to actually give you control over their choices after that.

[ChipMHazard]

I don't want full control. I would like the option to level up companions when I meet them so that I can pick what abilities they have from level one. I am fine with the companions having the stats that they do. 

[dome]

If people could determine preset companions talents before getting them, than they would just whine about not being able to change their attribute scores.

Because why would Aloth need 12 perception? why only 16 int and 12 might etc?

People will whine about anything they can. You should just move on and let them wallow in their missery. That is what they deserve.

[Morte66]

Those companions only really work for 1 type of main PC, a DPS carry type PC.

 

As a roleplayer, what I would really like is a PC optimised to get as many good dialogue options as possible, and interesting companions who can carry him in combat. Thus I would like the companions with dialogue/quests to be well built, or at least the option to read a "how to build decent companions" thread and respec them.

 

Apparently this makes me an awful min/maxer.

[IEfan]

[spoilers] Control freaks! I don't necessarily agree with Ruffian focus (besides it's an extra talent) and Field Triage initially but I found a LOT of use once I've got used to them... and I can see WHY the characters would pick those abilities, that what kind of builds those characters are MEANT to be. 

 

Eder is a weird-ish mix of urban ruffian and heavy Interrupt-centered tank, and it works. Durance is heavy melee-oriented cleric. Elf wizard is low-level critter killer. Kana is A-little-of-all-roles (imo focus in scrolls) and a mixed chanter of buffs/debuffs and summons. [End of spoilers]

 

And so forth: all of these are WORKING builds but SUBOPTIMAL intentionally  - they're favored so that the player would further explore the build they're based on. I've done quite well so far with the pre-picked talents anyways so I have no qualms with them.

 

Note, The same system was used in BG series but the auto-leveling happened in 3-4 level intervals. Depending WHEN you got the NPC meant how much underleveled they would be compared to starting NPC's. You wouldn't know or care about this if you weren't min-maxing - most NPC's would work under-leveled as well - but min-maxers would realize that to max experience and levels, you would need to rush 75% of game to get the "best" NPC's ASAP. That's not ridicilous that the game is set this way, what is actually idiotic would actually TO rush for the top NPC's "because I want to choose my level my NPC's" or "because I want to reach level cap on all top NPC's" etc, like youtube longplay-level of ****ty game experience.

 

Like mentioned in the topic, Custom-creating the party completely from scratch solves this problem. Another one is allowing a menu choice at the beginning of game for NPC's to start at level 1 with accumulated experience (for expert players). 

Edited April 6, 2015 by IEfan

[El Kabong]

I, from the other side, love them. 

 

It's true i rush a bit to get Grieving mother before lvl 5, but i wouldn't feel okay is respecing my companions into something full baller. I think the flaws on their builds are immersion points of the game, since nobody is perfect and everybody make bad choices in their lifes.

 

Yeah, Durance thought it would be a good idea go to the gyn and get +10 fortitude?  What to do? Hirivias used to fistfight people when they bullied him for been skin faced? It's his problem. You can only be a good influence in their lives and help them choose better from now on... 

[Lady Evenstar]

With the changes to companion stats in the recent patch, I've no need to customize them further. I would, however like to choose their skills (other than those associated with their background) and abilities on level up, so that I wouldn't feel the need to pick up companions before they make choices that don't work well with the party I want to play or my personal abilities and inabilities. Adapting to dev-chosen abilities may be interesting on one playthrough, but it seems to me to limit replayability--unless you care so little about party interactions that you're willing just to use hirelings picked up at the inn.

 

Min-maxing is only one way of personalizing character development. There are lots of reasons players may want to customize party members to a greater degree than they currently can.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Lady Evenstar

[Exyll]

Yep when I realized what was going on, 1st I tried tip-toeing through maps to get the priest / ranger / chanter but...so much work, completely not the intent of the game, just to get a complete party? You cant even get to the last 2 start of Act 2- and by the time you get to last companion you could be well over level 7.

Just went ahead and make my own custom party - completely how I want them from the start 

[ChipMHazard]

Yep when I realized what was going on, 1st I tried tip-toeing through maps to get the priest / ranger / chanter but...so much work, completely not the intent of the game, just to get a complete party? You cant even get to the last 2 start of Act 2- and by the time you get to last companion you could be well over level 7.

Just went ahead and make my own custom party - completely how I want them from the start 

 

It is possible to get all of them before hitting level 3, except perhaps for Pallegina because of the quest involved. 

[Naevius]

Maybe it matters on PoTD, but so far it doesn't seem to be critical if they are autoleveled.

[NickAragua]

I'm also not a big fan of the auto-leveled companions. Thankfully, I picked up four pretty early on so they're not too awful, and the party works fine on Hard difficulty. There are only two or three sub-optimal feat choices so far - Durance has some kind of "+willpower" feat which is a waste because he dies in about two hits (better than Aloth, who dies when a xaurip two maps away sneezes on him), and the chanter guy has Field Triage (which is actually ok, but considering how little health it heals, it's become pretty useless at the higher levels).

 

The ranger isn't that good in general, but I can already tell I'm going to be pissed off when I get the next batch of guys - we're all level 7 or so, which means it's a total crapshoot. Imagine picking up a guy with four different modal talents!

[GerPronouncedGrr]

While I didn't really care about the companions autolevelling during my first playthrough (on Normal), now that I'm attempting Path of the Damned every single choice that I don't get to make in terms of talents and class abilities really hurts. I would be happy to simply play with generic hired adventurers, except that the game is intentionally designed so that you're probably going to play it twice in order to fully experience each character's quests/story. Yes, I could have done all of them in one playthrough, but I didn't, and now I'm in a position where I have to either not experience those stories, or play with a crippled party on an extreme difficulty. I suppose I could play the game a third time, but to be perfectly honest I am a busy guy and this game is long. If I do play it a third time, it will likely be to try for the Triple Crown SOLO achievement, in which case companions are a moot point.

 

TL;DR: Companion auto-levelling should be optional. At the very, very least, as a compromise, I would love a "No Companion Auto-Levelling" option to become unlocked after completing the game once. 

[Crucis]

 

you min/maxers are hopeless. I can't think of a world where you'll be happy with anything

 

Why is it suddenly Min/Max to be able to choose the skills of companions at level up?

 

We should be happy that the game auto picks absolute tripe at level up for us?

 

 

Just one of the symptoms of the breed as I see it, and as I suspect RevBlue sees it.  I don't recall anywhere near this much kvetching about NPCs in BG2 back then.  People who loved BG2 were willing to accept the NPCs as they were.  IMO, the complainers sound more like IWD1/2 type of players who prefer making their own NPCs, even at the cost of losing any ability NPC interactions.

[ChipMHazard]

If you don't remember how much talk there's been over the years about the odd choice for Minsc's class then you haven't been paying attention. 

Now how about dropping the condecending tone and instead present valid, constructive arguments against any change to how companions currently work (When it comes to what we're discussing). If all else fails then simply agree to disagree. Or is that too much to ask?

Edited April 6, 2015 by ChipMHazard

[Crucis]

If you don't remember how much talk there's been over the years about the odd choice for Minsc's class then you haven't been paying attention. 

Now how about dropping the condecending tone and instead present valid, constructive arguments against any change to how companions currently work (When it comes to what we're discussing). If all else fails then simply agree to disagree. Or is that too much to ask?

 

Chip, I was paying attention ... closely.  And I don't recall many people making that big a deal over Minsc's class, odd as it was.  They just rolled with it. 

 

As for "is that too much to ask", yes, it is.  That's just a tactic to try to get people that disagree with YOU to shut up.  I think that the fact that you want me to shut up means that I hit the mark dead on with my comments.

[blindhamster]

Oddly... I play on hard... I picked up grieving mother at 9th level, I picked up the paladin at 6th level, eder at 3rd Level, durance at 4th level, sagni and the druid at 5th level, I have a probably far from optimal cipher as my main and have a poorly made rogue I use from time to time when I find my mains mechanics isn't high enough for an area (temple of skaen was the first time).

 

 

So far I've had no issues with the premade characters, eder tanks plenty good enough, I found grieving mothers powers compliment my mains pretty well, they share some powers but have a fair few different and I've found I use them too. Aloth does crowd control fine alongside the druid and durance is a good party healer and buffer...

[Vaeliorin]

 

 

you min/maxers are hopeless. I can't think of a world where you'll be happy with anything

Why is it suddenly Min/Max to be able to choose the skills of companions at level up?

 

We should be happy that the game auto picks absolute tripe at level up for us?

 

Just one of the symptoms of the breed as I see it, and as I suspect RevBlue sees it.  I don't recall anywhere near this much kvetching about NPCs in BG2 back then.  People who loved BG2 were willing to accept the NPCs as they were.  IMO, the complainers sound more like IWD1/2 type of players who prefer making their own NPCs, even at the cost of losing any ability NPC interactions.

 

There aren't really any meaningful choices upon leveling in 2E D&D. I mean, sure, you could spend thief points terribly, but you get so many that presumably you'll put at least some into dealing with locks and traps. Weapon choices were mainly aesthetic unless you knew which weapons were the good ones (which is impossible on a first playthrough.)

 

Talents and skills are a much bigger deal. I picked up Grieving Mother at level 8, and she's got two awful talents out of 4 (Greater Focus, Mental Fortress) and her choices for "spells" are less than ideal, and it's not like I can switch any out or learn more than a very limited number. Given her fairly terrible stat selection, it would be nice if I could at least select her talents so as to make her more useful, so that I can enjoy having her along, instead of doing so only because I find her story interesting.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Vaeliorin

[Daemonjax]

Yep when I realized what was going on, 1st I tried tip-toeing through maps to get the priest / ranger / chanter but...so much work, completely not the intent of the game, just to get a complete party? You cant even get to the last 2 start of Act 2- and by the time you get to last companion you could be well over level 7.

Just went ahead and make my own custom party - completely how I want them from the start 

 

I've gathered every npc by level 4, sticking to the main quest line just long enough to get the companion and move on.

 

Weirdest thing about playing that way is go to both dyrwood and defiance bay so quickly back to back.  Furthermore, the optimal path is to go to dyrwood (to pick up GM first because you don't have to gain any experience on the way there and then to defiance bay) right after defeating Maerwald when the story is pushing you to to defiance bay first.

 

That's really the only thing that breaks verisimilitude for me. 

 

Yes, I don't have to do it, but the optimal path doesn't necessarily have to break verisimilitude, either.  It just wasn't a design consideration when developing the story because (probably) no one brought it up at the time.  

 

I fully expect mods to come out eventually that let you choose companion level up choices (and stats) so we don't have to choose between verisimilitude and optimal play.  Even now, I could use the IE mod to re-level a companion, but I'm a little afraid it might break something.  I can wait a year or whatever it takes for such a mod -- I would prefer to make all their level choices in advance rather than doing it when I meet them.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Daemonjax

[blindhamster]

 

 

 

you min/maxers are hopeless. I can't think of a world where you'll be happy with anything

Why is it suddenly Min/Max to be able to choose the skills of companions at level up?

 

We should be happy that the game auto picks absolute tripe at level up for us?

Just one of the symptoms of the breed as I see it, and as I suspect RevBlue sees it. I don't recall anywhere near this much kvetching about NPCs in BG2 back then. People who loved BG2 were willing to accept the NPCs as they were. IMO, the complainers sound more like IWD1/2 type of players who prefer making their own NPCs, even at the cost of losing any ability NPC interactions.

There aren't really any meaningful choices upon leveling in 2E D&D. I mean, sure, you could spend thief points terribly, but you get so many that presumably you'll put at least some into dealing with locks and traps. Weapon choices were mainly aesthetic unless you knew which weapons were the good ones (which is impossible on a first playthrough.)

 

Talents and skills are a much bigger deal. I picked up Grieving Mother at level 8, and she's got two awful talents out of 4 (Greater Focus, Mental Fortress) and her choices for "spells" are less than ideal, and it's not like I can switch any out or learn more than a very limited number. Given her fairly terrible stat selection, it would be nice if I could at least select her talents so as to make her more useful, so that I can enjoy having her along, instead of doing so only because I find her story interesting.

I used greater focus on my main as well, made all the difference a number of times, I found grieving mother to work fine so far, pain block in particular was a handy power to suddenly get that I didn't previously have.

[Vaeliorin]

 

 

 

 

you min/maxers are hopeless. I can't think of a world where you'll be happy with anything

Why is it suddenly Min/Max to be able to choose the skills of companions at level up?

 

We should be happy that the game auto picks absolute tripe at level up for us?

 

Just one of the symptoms of the breed as I see it, and as I suspect RevBlue sees it. I don't recall anywhere near this much kvetching about NPCs in BG2 back then. People who loved BG2 were willing to accept the NPCs as they were. IMO, the complainers sound more like IWD1/2 type of players who prefer making their own NPCs, even at the cost of losing any ability NPC interactions.

 

There aren't really any meaningful choices upon leveling in 2E D&D. I mean, sure, you could spend thief points terribly, but you get so many that presumably you'll put at least some into dealing with locks and traps. Weapon choices were mainly aesthetic unless you knew which weapons were the good ones (which is impossible on a first playthrough.)

 

Talents and skills are a much bigger deal. I picked up Grieving Mother at level 8, and she's got two awful talents out of 4 (Greater Focus, Mental Fortress) and her choices for "spells" are less than ideal, and it's not like I can switch any out or learn more than a very limited number. Given her fairly terrible stat selection, it would be nice if I could at least select her talents so as to make her more useful, so that I can enjoy having her along, instead of doing so only because I find her story interesting.

 

I used greater focus on my main as well, made all the difference a number of times, I found grieving mother to work fine so far, pain block in particular was a handy power to suddenly get that I didn't previously have.

 

Pain Block is one power, and a good one. But GM is lacking powers I would want, and has several I wouldn't use (I'm not actually using her at the moment, as my main is a cipher, but I intend to on my second playthrough.)

 

And how has greater focus "made all the difference"? Are you ever actually getting to max focus? Why? I can see, maybe, wanting to maintain a minimum level of focus, but there's no need for an extra 10 max focus, ever.

[ChipMHazard]

 

If you don't remember how much talk there's been over the years about the odd choice for Minsc's class then you haven't been paying attention. 

Now how about dropping the condecending tone and instead present valid, constructive arguments against any change to how companions currently work (When it comes to what we're discussing). If all else fails then simply agree to disagree. Or is that too much to ask?

 

Chip, I was paying attention ... closely.  And I don't recall many people making that big a deal over Minsc's class, odd as it was.  They just rolled with it. 

 

As for "is that too much to ask", yes, it is.  That's just a tactic to try to get people that disagree with YOU to shut up.  I think that the fact that you want me to shut up means that I hit the mark dead on with my comments.

 

 

Yet changing him into a barbarian/berserker was in much demand, a demand that modders eventually met. Quite a reasonable change considering that he is from Rashemen and described as a berserker. 

 

Really? Shut up? Where on earth did I even remotely entertain that notion? Do try and read what I wrote instead of going round the bend like that. I wrote about you instead presenting arguments for your case, as opposed to what you just did in your reply. 

Agreeing to disagree has to do with maintining a civil tone and not resorting to personal attacks when there really isn't much else to discuss after having presented all ones arguments. 

Is an option too much to ask? How so? Does it harm your gameplay? Is it harmful to the gameplay overall? Is it too much to ask that, instead of having players forgo early questing in order to gather their companions as early as possible, it be possible to level them up yourself? If there's enough demand for it from the playerbase then why force people to use somewhat buggy console commands? You could of course argue that at some point mods will come along and allow for such an option. 

 

Edit: I would propose adding in a slider with three settings. First: Have companions level up automatically Second: Have it as it is now Third: Have them be level one when you meet them

Edited April 7, 2015 by ChipMHazard