Wizard talent build

[Vorad]

Hey everyone, I recently started PoE. I have been playing dnd in the past of course and have really enjoyed all previous  pc games like Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale. I have come up with a party and my main is a wizard however I find myself in trouble when picking the proper talents for the Wizard.

 

The wizard so far:

Vorador 7 lvl Death Goodlike

 

Stats Before Items

Mig 18

Con 3

Dex 17

Per 10

Int 20

Res 10

 

Blast

Penetrating Blast

Spirit of Decay

 

As for spells I have gathered several grimoires so far so I have almost all possible spells up until lvl 4.

 

I focus mostly on cc through slicken(OP) and the rest but if neccessary I can switch to my nuke spells especially when fighting ethereals.

 

As I mentioned earlier my only problem is in picking the "proper" talents for the wizard, I am not really happy about my choices so far these picks seem mediocre and so I was looking for advice, especially since as I will progress in levels I am not really sure on what talents to pick next.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Vorad]

I am considering Bloody Slaughter and maybe Scion of Flame next. Not sure though if these do stack with Death Goodlike racial. Still haven't managed to figure out a proper talent build for wizard cc & nuker.

[Wolken3156]

I posted something on this recently:

Scion of Flame, Spirit of Decay and Secrets of Rime are the only real must-have talents, since they affect he Wizard's most powerful spells. Maybe Heart of the Storm for Chain Lightning and Crackling Bolt as well if you like using it (I'm not sure if it affects Essential Phantom, would be pretty sweet if it did).

 

That leaves 2 - 3 talent slots to play around with as you please. Wizards will use their auto-attack less and less as the game progresses. Once you hit level 9, you practically abandon it, since you can cast 1st-level spells every encounter with reckless abandon. Whichever weapon you decide to use won't be a game changer or anything. With the change to Arcane Torrent's range though, Blast is less valuable IMHO.

 

Also Bloody Slaughter is a terrible talent on a Wizard, its far too situational. Plus, most of their blasting will be while the enemies are topped off, not when they're on death's door. Late game, you get a spell called Death Ring, which flat out instantly kills enemies on low endurance anyway.

Edited April 7, 2015 by Wolken3156

[Lasci]

It absolutely, positively, 100% doesn't matter what your wizard's talents are.

 

Some of the increased elemental damage utilities might help and weapon focus + blast will be nice for auto attacks, but in the end a wizard's all about his spells and you get those automatically and the choices are pretty self explanatory.

[Evange]

Just choose all the extra spells talents and you are good to go. The rest doesn't really matter.

[Sancus]

Best Wizard talent build is roll Druid

[Parsong]

Best Wizard talent build is roll Druid

 

Even better, Cipher!

 

Real talk though, avoid all Wizard Talents except +1 spell ones.  Maybe even avoid some of those, (T2).  Possibly take elemental damage talents (Utility) and possibly Penetrating Shots if you like using Projectile spells and a Ranged Weapon.  

 

I personally like the 20% frost dmg, as I'm a Fog Spammer.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Parsong

[tamurm]

If you take Blast, Penetrating Blast, Dangerous Impliments, You can do some SERIOUS damage by comboing, the following spells. Sure, it uses ALOT of spells, but you'll soon outdamage everyone in the party by miles. - The combo, on Path of the Damned, far outdamages any other class, including Druid spells from what I've seen. It cleans encounters extremely quickly. - Further buffing the Wizard's accuracy with Blessing , Inspiring Radiance from a Priest , Dire Blessing, will only emphasize it's power. - and I suggest 'back to back' pulling of entire floors , because minor blights is a long duration. - Only stopping to occasionally refresh Eldritch Aim. Which thankfully takes little time to cast.

 

Eldritch Aim, Mericless Gaze, the 3rd level haste spell, and Minor blights.

 

Minor Blights is an impliment, which triggers blast. Only the main attack hits every target in a small radius. - The blast then triggers on EVERY target hit. - It isn't uncommon to dish out 40 on 4 targets, damage, FoE only AoE, followed by 3-5 more blasts for another +40 on everyone. The more targets there are, the more effective it is.

[Parsong]

But thats two T3 spells per encounter, so you can only keep that up for 3 encounters.... And by the time all the buffs are up it's likely that a well made party (T3 Chants, Barb, Druid, Cipher) will leave almost nothing alive.

 

The Buff System (in combat/ending after combat, ugh) +  Spell Rest system really makes these kind of awesome potential builds a huge pain in the ass.

 

But the build does seem sweet, and I'd recommend Infuse with Vital Essence to heal HP loss from dangerous implements (it for some reason gives back HP at combat end).

 

 

 

(P.S. Does  Penetrating Shots effect Blights?)

Edited April 8, 2015 by Parsong

[tamurm]

This is why you pull additional encounters with Summons or the like, from the Chanter. Or a spare tank. You often don't even need to use 2 third level spells for haste. Just Minor Blights + the accuracy from Priest, or Eldritch Aim. - The only time you go full on buffage is if it's a huge pack of monsters + boss that you can't hit otherwise. Clear the entire floor of an Endless Dungeon. or open map.  - and let's face it. 2nd and third level wizard spells are pretty terrible.

 

Eldritch AIm, Mericless Gaze, and the Haste spell are -extremely- fast to cast. With very little recovery time. - and this was wearing Plate armor. Minor Blights is the only spell that takes time and recovery

 

I'm not sure if Penetrating Shots effect it, I'll probably pick that up next time my Wizard gets a talent.- But if you already took the Blast + Penetrating blast talents. This is the best way to make the most of it.

[Blackthane]

I'm thinking the same thing about Penetrating Blast. It gives -5 DR, but doesn't Blast's description say -5 DR vs Reflex? I'm confused by the wording. So does that mean stacked figures of -10 DR or...? 

 

I think there's a problem with Scion of Flame's UI description. From base of 40~55, Scion pushes it up to 44~60. Fireball has the same issue, base of 25~35, boosted to 27~38. Those are 10% figures, not 20%. 

 

So is the 10% worth it? The higher level flame spells aren't so hot. Torrent is a level 5 spell and has the same base damage as Fan of Flames, which means it can't be converted to per encounter use. Wall of Flame is probably the next best fire spell for a wizard, if you can lock down a foe to take damage for 5 seconds. Fan of Flames is still an AAA spell, I'm just wondering if SoF talent is worth it? 

Edited April 8, 2015 by Blackthane

[Vorad]

Thank you very much for the replies.

 

It seems the wizard talents were made underwhelming on purpose given that the spells are quite strong. Even though a wizards most important trait are the spells he uses, it still wouldn't hurt to seek an optimal build.

 

The only reason why I considered picking Bloody Slaughter is boss fights, where a boss in low endurance is still a considerable threat. But since there is a kill spell maybe the talent is not that great after all...

 

For trash clearing the blast and penetrating blast seem ok. Otherwise I could get +1slot but this won't be of great use at high levels. I do like to spam fog as well but mostly for the cc so I think I will pick Scion of Flame instead since the benefit in damage is higher when considering Fan of Flames.

 

I went for godlike instead of Aumaua due to preference on intellect vs might in that case however from godlike racials I picked Death due to the rest seem less beneficial for a cc/nuker. Nature seems interesting but there are two ways of being <50% endurance either get hit (which I don't really like) or using dangerous implement but that means even with 3 Cos I need to autoattack about 15 times, it doesn't seem optimal. The moon seems as an ok choice overall the aoe "heal" seems a bit better than self DR from fire in this case. So all in all the Death godlike to me appears to be the most consistent option for a cc/nuker.

[pi2repsion]

I'd advise picking anything except the +1 spell slot ones since you are not going to need many spells in trash encounters, can always rest before important encounters, and will have more than enough spells for the important encounters with those you gain automatically from leveling, so what's the point in going for extra spells?

 

It you are going to use the wizard at all as a blaster, you'd be silly not to take Scion of Flame due to the Fan, the Rolling Flames, and Fireball. 20% more damage when you use what will be your main blasting spells through much of the game, including the end-game when your lowlevel spells become per encounter, is not negligible. You'll also get good mileage out of the +Ice and +Corrosion at the mid-high levels, and you might even find some use for +Lightning with the 6th level Chain Lightning, though obviously this is of less importance.

 

As a nice side effect, you end up with 5 DR to fire/ice/lightning/corrosion, which while not overwhelming might come in handy every now and then.

 

You'll also find good use for them if you want your wizard to be more focused on CC'ing and debuffing doing autoattacks with Blights once you hit third level spells (that spell is seriously one not to overlook).

 

Of course, if you are NOT going to be using your wizard for blasting, ever, and not going to be tossing Blights at your enemy, but solely going to be focused on  CC and debuffing, then you might want to skip Scion of Flame, but that seems unlikely given just how strong even the first level fire damage spell is.

 

The Blast line talents are quite useful too, though those primarily benefit you in trash encounters, since in important encounters you should not be autoattacking but spellslinging unless you are a Blight-thrower, something that you have more than enough spell slots for once you reach level 5 and gain access to third level spells.

 

I mean, I could see going for the +spell slot talents if you were determined to try playing a game to gain the "fewer than 10 rests during the game" achievement, but otherwise it seems a bit pointless compared to choosing talents that either improve your spells or your autoattacks, because outside the very early game you aren't going to run out of spells. Heck, if you desperately want that extra slot for an extra Fan of Flames because you are afraid of runnning out of level 1 slots, or whatever, why not scribe a scroll and keep it in reserve for that contingency?

 

My build for a Blaster/CC Wizard goes like this:

2: +Fire (we already have great fire spells)

4: Blast

6: Penetrating Blast

8: +Ice (the great ice spells start at level 9 with spelllevel 5)

10: +Corrosion (we already have good corrosion spells)

12: +Lightning (we got the first really good lightning spell at level 11 with spelllevel 6)

 

The order of +Ice/Corrosion/Lightning comes down to personal preference, really, and just which Ice/Corrosion/Lightning spells do you want to prioritize.

Edited April 8, 2015 by pi2repsion

[knownastherat]

Actually, I think per encounter low level spells complement with extra spells talent nicely.  Anyway and as usual, this is difficulty, party and play style dependent so asking for "best", "proper" or "most useful/powerful" without considering other variables is, well, funny.

[Phoynix]

Roll a druid... druid spells are on par with Wizard or actually better, you get all of them and can pick or choose per encounter...

 

also

starting stats

 

Druid

Endurance 36+12level

Health 4*Endurance

Deflection 20

Accuracy 20

At level one with 10 con

144 health, 36 endurance.

 

Wizard

Endurance 30+10level

Health 3*endurance

Deflection 10

Accuracy 20

At level one with 10 con

90 health, 30 endurance.

 

Fact is no real reason except for abusing Blights to take a Wizard over a druid....

druid+10 defelection+50% health all spells dont need to pay to learn them or only have 4 active at a time per spell level...

 

Obsidion screwed wizards over... not to mention that for much of the game the DRUID has better damage spells that DONT harm friendlies.

 

I think people will find Minor blights proccing again on its own blasts will be fixed.

 

Lets not forget we get Gilmores that do nothing... you cant enchant them... say make them add +accuracy or damage to spells... or add an extra spell slot or anything awesome like you can with normal weapons and equipment.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Phoynix

[pi2repsion]

Roll a druid... druid spells are on par with Wizard or actually better, you get all of them and can pick or choose per encounter...

However, in any important encounter wizards get to cast a lot more spells in a given period of time than a Druid from level 5 and onwards due to Deleterious Alacrity of Motion, and wizards get enough spell slots that you aren't going to run out before you've nuked the enemy in a fraction of the time it would take the druid to do so.

 

Druid: Safe, slow, and with big hits. But for maximum nuking, go wizard.

[hugin7]

I'd advise picking anything except the +1 spell slot ones since you are not going to need many spells in trash encounters, can always rest before important encounters, and will have more than enough spells for the important encounters with those you gain automatically from leveling, so what's the point in going for extra spells?

 

It you are going to use the wizard at all as a blaster, you'd be silly not to take Scion of Flame due to the Fan, the Rolling Flames, and Fireball. 20% more damage when you use what will be your main blasting spells through much of the game, including the end-game when your lowlevel spells become per encounter, is not negligible. You'll also get good mileage out of the +Ice and +Corrosion at the mid-high levels, and you might even find some use for +Lightning with the 6th level Chain Lightning, though obviously this is of less importance.

 

As a nice side effect, you end up with 5 DR to fire/ice/lightning/corrosion, which while not overwhelming might come in handy every now and then.

 

You'll also find good use for them if you want your wizard to be more focused on CC'ing and debuffing doing autoattacks with Blights once you hit third level spells (that spell is seriously one not to overlook).

 

Of course, if you are NOT going to be using your wizard for blasting, ever, and not going to be tossing Blights at your enemy, but solely going to be focused on  CC and debuffing, then you might want to skip Scion of Flame, but that seems unlikely given just how strong even the first level fire damage spell is.

 

The Blast line talents are quite useful too, though those primarily benefit you in trash encounters, since in important encounters you should not be autoattacking but spellslinging unless you are a Blight-thrower, something that you have more than enough spell slots for once you reach level 5 and gain access to third level spells.

 

I mean, I could see going for the +spell slot talents if you were determined to try playing a game to gain the "fewer than 10 rests during the game" achievement, but otherwise it seems a bit pointless compared to choosing talents that either improve your spells or your autoattacks, because outside the very early game you aren't going to run out of spells. Heck, if you desperately want that extra slot for an extra Fan of Flames because you are afraid of runnning out of level 1 slots, or whatever, why not scribe a scroll and keep it in reserve for that contingency?

 

My build for a Blaster/CC Wizard goes like this:

2: +Fire (we already have great fire spells)

4: Blast

6: Penetrating Blast

8: +Ice (the great ice spells start at level 9 with spelllevel 5)

10: +Corrosion (we already have good corrosion spells)

12: +Lightning (we got the first really good lightning spell at level 11 with spelllevel 6)

 

The order of +Ice/Corrosion/Lightning comes down to personal preference, really, and just which Ice/Corrosion/Lightning spells do you want to prioritize.

 

Many excellent points, pi2repsion.  A huge determining factor in what's optimal for a wizard, and whether a wizard is optimal for a party in the first place, is the player's view toward resting.

 

A lot of players seem to forget that the game allows you to rest for free at any given time.  Others don't want to take the time to rest, or self-impose a morality system where they limit themselves to resting every x encounters, where x varies for every person.  Last I checked, no such guidelines were imposed by Obsidian, nor did they implement any serious measures to limit resting, other than make it tedious.

 

The "tedious" aspect of resting can be mitigated via the "rest" cheat code.  It's quick, free, and doesn't actually make you more powerful, since it only saves you the time it would take to return to an inn or stronghold.  Therefore, I don't consider it a cheat, but a time-saver, though this is a point of contention among players.

 

As far as +1 spell slot vs. elemental damage talents are concerned, here's some food for thought, with PotD difficulty in mind:

 

1.  Wizards' functions include CC, debuffing, self-buffing, and nuking, roughly in that order of importance.  Helpless enemies are easy kills for every party and don't fight back, while debuffed enemies are easy kills and fight back ineffectively.

 

2.  Since nuking is low on a typical wizard's priority list, elemental damage talents might be under-utilized.  Also, each one only applies to roughly a quarter of elemental damage spells, which doesn't even include nice raw damage spells, such as Malignant Cloud, or single-target non-elemental damage spells, such as the Minoletta's line.  Therefore, on average, each elemental damage spell boosts the wizard's effective DPS by <5%.  Scion of Flame is the likely exception, since Fan of Flames, Rolling Flames, and Fireball seem to be the go-to early damage spells, so its value is much greater than that of other elemental damage talents for most builds.

 

3.  Early in the game, spells might be tight.  For example, around level 5, you have 10 spells without +1 spell talents, but 13 if you take 3.  This increases wizard's capabilities by 30% across the board.  This includes CC, debuffing, self-buffing, and nuking.  Naturally, you can use all of them on nuking, if you wish.  They can be the difference between casting 5 x Fan of Flames vs 4x, an increase of 25%, which is greater than the 20% damage increase from Scion of Flame.

 

4.  Wizards' casting rate, especially when using Deleterious Alacrity of Motion, allows them to burn through spells very quickly.  An extra lvl 1 spell, for example, could lead to Eldrich Aim + Slicken + Chill Fog + 1xFan vs 2xFan in a matter of seconds.  The difference between 1 or two Fans can be over 50% of overall damage, and the latter is only possible with an extra spell.

 

5.  Later in the game, when 20+ spells are available, 4 extra spells might still increase your capabilities by about 20% across the board.  However, by that point, you will be using a greater proportion of high-level spells.

 

6.  All of the above is moot if encounters tend end in a few spells, and no spell level is exhausted under any circumstances.

 

7.  On the flip side, perhaps there are no encounters that would cause you to dip so deeply into your spell pool that you would run out of spells - everything could be dead well before you want to cast that last spell.  This brings us back to the discussion that started this post - what is your philosophy on rest?  Having more spells would keep you from having to rest more often, but if you're not averse to resting, who cares?  ...And if you're the type to self-impose limits on rest, the effectiveness of your wizard can drop dramatically, likely to the point where a cipher becomes a better choice.  However, a rested wizard, fully buffed with Deleterious Alacrity of Motion, Eldrich Aim, etc., unchained from having to budget spells for later encounters, can sling powerful, accurate spells faster than any other caster and is a beautiful thing to behold.

 

At this point, I've only generated test encounters via the cheat console and haven't truly played the game, so I'll refrain from making too many specific recommendations, but hopefully, the above discussion helps to stir up ideas and different perspectives.  I will mention that, outside of Scion of Flame, it seems that most elemental talents would likely be under-utilized even in a nuker build.  Blast/Penetrating Blast have fantastic synergy with Blights, but you might not get much mileage out of them if you use other spells to nuke before mopping up with Blights auto-attacks - again, this depends on how much you rest and use your spells to nuke.  Finally, don't neglect Marksman - it affects spells and its accuracy bonus makes everything you do more effective.

[pi2repsion]

Nice post, hugin7.

 

One question, though. I could have sworn I tested whether Marksman worked with spells a few days ago using my wood elf wizard and found that it didn't apply increased accuracy. It is of course possibly that there was an error in my test methodology, so I have to ask you this before I go to the bother of testing it again, are you sure that it affects spell accuracy?

[Phoynix]

Except the Druids end line AOE spell is far better then the Wizards.

 

Druid can also drop con to min... buff DEX to max and still have more health then a wizard with 10 con...

 

Also not sure how much faster you think the spell makes the wizard cast but its not instant fireballs... its 50% faster...

Wizard can cast 3 spells when a Druid has cast 2...

Problem is one of those spells was Deleterious Alacrity of Motion...

 

End result is wizard casts 3 combat spells Druid casts 3 combat spells... only with the 4th combat spell does the wizard pull ahead... in damage/CC

5 spells cast vs 4...

 

Now add in the fact druid can drop con to min and max DEX... you start needing 5-6 wizard combat spells AFTER Deleterious Alacrity of Motion to match the druid...

While the druid can fire off a damage or CC spell at the start of combat before a Deleterious Alacrity of Motion casting mage can...

 

Now if you want max dex and Deleterious Alacrity of Motion a mage is awesome 1.2*1.5=1.8 attack speed... but to do that you drop multiple stats and lose out on role playing intercations in the game...

Wizard gets punished anything you try compared to other casters...

 

Anything the wizard comes out ahead in is always minor and is always arguable if its actually better off...

Not having to cast a spell before a CC/damage spell in combat could be considerd the advantage... putting druids ahead.

 

Roll a druid... druid spells are on par with Wizard or actually better, you get all of them and can pick or choose per encounter...

However, in any important encounter wizards get to cast a lot more spells in a given period of time than a Druid from level 5 and onwards due to Deleterious Alacrity of Motion, and wizards get enough spell slots that you aren't going to run out before you've nuked the enemy in a fraction of the time it would take the druid to do so.

 

Druid: Safe, slow, and with big hits. But for maximum nuking, go wizard.

 

[MaxDamage]

You take orlan max perception resolve intellect, min might and con. The rest goes into dex.

 

You take Veil, Hardened veil, sword and shield style, deflection perk. Your second level spell increases your hp by 2 times, your 3rd level spell buffs your deflection further. And everything stacks: veil, this buff and rings of deflection. This must be having ~190-200 disengagement deflection end game and perhaps 160-170 plain veiled deflection. Godmode on. 

If you re min maxing, min max everything xD.

[Vorad]

 Finally, don't neglect Marksman - it affects spells and its accuracy bonus makes everything you do more effective.

 

 

Is that official? As I read the explanatory text it mentions "ranged weapons", otherwise it would be a really good talent.

 

Thanks for the posts guys.

 

EDIT:

 

I have confirmed it on a test a bit earlier, marksman applies only to ranged weapons sadly.

Edited April 8, 2015 by Vorad

[hugin7]

Nice post, hugin7.

 

One question, though. I could have sworn I tested whether Marksman worked with spells a few days ago using my wood elf wizard and found that it didn't apply increased accuracy. It is of course possibly that there was an error in my test methodology, so I have to ask you this before I go to the bother of testing it again, are you sure that it affects spell accuracy?

 

I was under the impression that I thoroughly tested Marksman for spells and figured that your experience was either due to interactions between the Wood Elf racial and Marksman, or simply not standing at least 4m away.  However, I retested out of paranoia and found that something must have gone wrong with my previous tests.

 

I tried different types of spells: Fireball, Minoletta's line, Confusion, and Blights.  To my surprise, only Blights was affected by Marksman.  I'm positive that I've tested more spells in the past.  I finally noticed that one of my subjects has Gauntlets of Accuracy (+5) equipped - I suspect that I overlooked this item and it threw off my tests.

 

Sorry about the mix-up.  Marksman still has some value for Blights, but no longer seems so attractive.

[hugin7]

 

 Finally, don't neglect Marksman - it affects spells and its accuracy bonus makes everything you do more effective.

 

 

Is that official? As I read the explanatory text it mentions "ranged weapons", otherwise it would be a really good talent.

 

Thanks for the posts guys.

 

 

I've seen a few situations where spells or abilities that apply to ranged weapons/attacks also apply to spells.  Unfortunately, as I just posted above, something went wrong with my tests form Marksman, leading to incorrect conclusions.

 

Now that I think of it, my tests were done before the last patch, so perhaps the issue was a stealth "fix," rather than an error in my tests.  Either way, Marksman doesn't work with most spells at this time.

[MadDemiurg]

It sould work with blights though - since technically it's a weapon

[pi2repsion]

 

Except the Druids end line AOE spell is far better then the Wizards.

 

Druid can also drop con to min... buff DEX to max and still have more health then a wizard with 10 con...

 

Also not sure how much faster you think the spell makes the wizard cast but its not instant fireballs... its 50% faster...

Wizard can cast 3 spells when a Druid has cast 2...

Problem is one of those spells was Deleterious Alacrity of Motion...

 

End result is wizard casts 3 combat spells Druid casts 3 combat spells... only with the 4th combat spell does the wizard pull ahead... in damage/CC

5 spells cast vs 4...

With a decent intelligence DoAM lasts for 46 seconds, which allows for many more than two spells to be cast accelerated, and any tough battle is likely to take significantly more time than what it takes to cast 3-4 non-hasted combat spells before it is done.

 

And while 2 v 2 combat spells sounds good for druid, 4 v 3, 6 v 4, 8 v 5, 10 v 6 in favour of the wizard doesn't.

 

 

Now if you want max dex and Deleterious Alacrity of Motion a mage is awesome 1.2*1.5=1.8 attack speed... but to do that you drop multiple stats and lose out on role playing intercations in the game...

I am quite happy with my:

 

MIG 18

CON 3

DEX 19

PER 4

INT 19

RES 15

 

Wood elf wizard, thank you very much. I lose out on perception role playing interactions, but since I'd need HIGH perception for that, not just medium perception, those were not an option anyhow unless I wanted to shaft either MIG, DEX, or INT - merely taking a medium value in one of them, such as DEX, wouldn't be enough to put enough points in PER to reach the 14-16 level where most checks are made.

 

As is, I get all MIG, DEX, and INT roleplaying interactions and, as a bonus, all of the RES as well, since I buff my resolve with items and rest.

 

I've got a hard time seeing how anybody would make any build that didn't end up losing out on some role playing interactions, and I also find it hard to see how you'd build anything but a tank (with high PER, INT, and RES) that would get more of the interactions than I do, given the prevalence of MIG, INT, PER, and RES interactions.

Edited April 8, 2015 by pi2repsion