I feel offended do you?

[Guest BugsVendor]

Dear Obsidian,

 

Being a huge fan of titles like Baldur's Gate I took Path of the Damned difficulty simply so this wonderful experience would last as long as possible. I wanted to be forced to eat consumables and search for items that help with certain enemies and experience the game in it's full potential rather than just run through the game on normal without any serious challenge. The game still seemed too easy... Boring...

 

There is only one initial playthrough of the game and now that I am close towards the end I realised mine is ruined. I did a quick bug search and sure enough my Eder is overpowered due to stacking bug and the game is too easy. I also experienced other bugs like the Raedric Castle problem.

 

They way I see it yet again I was sold a car without a wheel. It is that simple. Yet another product in the gaming industry that is unfinished, rushed, clearly broken.

 

If this would be any other industry we would never hear the end of it. Just imagine calling help line of some company saying "You sold me a coffee machine that gives tea" and hearing "This is a known issue".

 

Do you know who buys these game right after the release or even pre order ? Your most dedicated fans. The new normal is to poke us in the eyes with a stick and turn us into slave testers.

 

I feel offended obsidian. The experience I bought from you is broken. You send a clear and loud message:

 

"DO NOT PRE ORDER" & "DO NOT BUY RIGHT AFTER RELEASE"

 

Regards,

 

exFan

 

 

 

 

[metallix]

I would really love to have some insight on the testing process of this game.

There are several game breaking bugs in PoE and I'm also experiencing one. Now I find it very hard to believe none of these bugs were unknown at release... that would mean the testing process was minimal and I would feel offended. If at least one of these bugs was a "known issue" at release but they released it anyway because it would only affect a small percentage of players... then I would feel REALLY offended. Super offended.

 

Dunno about other customers, but I was really unhappy when at 35h played my game broke. I raged and shot my cat point blank. Was a mess :|

[Emc2]

I've played ~13 hours and I've only ran into ONE bug, and that was minor graphical glitch when moving a character. Other than that the bugs have been very sneaky and have not ruined my experience. 

 

On the topic of Obsidian not communicating... they are, you are just not in the right places. They've already stated they are doing their best to get the bugs fixed ASAP. There are some bug report threads where the dev have personally responded. I can see this being very hard for obsidian, considering they have ~20 people working. They can't be responding to every single (sometimes very hostile) topic. They'd rather actually fix the bugs or make that expansion. And I can see some people have no idea what it actually costs to make a game and how much time it takes. One indie dev said he's spending 15% of his development time making his weekly blog posts about the game.

 

I'm not saying bugs are acceptable, I think people are just taking some of this too seriously. They are fixing the bugs, whining doesn't help. It should be common sense to not buy game immediately at launch if you can't handle bugs, If you've followed the gaming scene at all.

[Halric]

 

 

Customers shouldn't have to dig through support forums to search for posts from developers to try and estimate a delivery date on their own. 

Someone from Obsidian needs to step up and say: "Listen, we've got bugs, here is a list of issues we are working on, here are the ones we have fixed, a patch will be released in the next few weeks (or whatever time frame they think is reasonable). 

They have!  It'll be this week, which a pinned thread right at the top of the forum says!

 

 

Yes, you are right, there is a pinned post describing the bugs reported so far. But it makes no mention of when a patch is expected, and doesn't solve the issue that a pinned support forum post shouldn't be the sole method of a major update to your customers for a product. I would expect them to post it on their front page, or contact Polygon/Kotaku etc with a follow up response to the articles those media outlets have run about the game's issues. 

 

More communication is always better than less, especially when dealing with launch issues.

[Halric]

I've played ~13 hours and I've only ran into ONE bug, and that was minor graphical glitch when moving a character. Other than that the bugs have been very sneaky and have not ruined my experience. 

 

On the topic of Obsidian not communicating... they are, you are just not in the right places. They've already stated they are doing their best to get the bugs fixed ASAP. There are some bug report threads where the dev have personally responded. I can see this being very hard for obsidian, considering they have ~20 people working. They can't be responding to every single (sometimes very hostile) topic. They'd rather actually fix the bugs or make that expansion. And I can see some people have no idea what it actually costs to make a game and how much time it takes. One indie dev said he's spending 15% of his development time making his weekly blog posts about the game.

 

I'm not saying bugs are acceptable, I think people are just taking some of this too seriously. They are fixing the bugs, whining doesn't help. It should be common sense to not buy game immediately at launch if you can't handle bugs, If you've followed the gaming scene at all.

 

I agree, that being said I think that they should be interested in the most efficient way to communicate due to their limited resources.  Perhaps communicate using the games media, an email response to their articles would be enough to prompt the journalists to post an update.  Also perhaps use the front page of their site. The most visible areas should be used to get the information out successfully the first time. Hoping that everyone will dive into the forums, and read all the pinned threads for information is wishful thinking. And ends up being more work for them in the end.

[Stahlbart]

 It should be common sense to not buy game immediately at launch if you can't handle bugs, If you've followed the gaming scene at all.

 

That is a very sad development then. Considering this is a kickstarter project.

[sparklecat]

 

 

 

Customers shouldn't have to dig through support forums to search for posts from developers to try and estimate a delivery date on their own. 

Someone from Obsidian needs to step up and say: "Listen, we've got bugs, here is a list of issues we are working on, here are the ones we have fixed, a patch will be released in the next few weeks (or whatever time frame they think is reasonable). 

They have!  It'll be this week, which a pinned thread right at the top of the forum says!

 

 

Yes, you are right, there is a pinned post describing the bugs reported so far. But it makes no mention of when a patch is expected, and doesn't solve the issue that a pinned support forum post shouldn't be the sole method of a major update to your customers for a product. I would expect them to post it on their front page, or contact Polygon/Kotaku etc with a follow up response to the articles those media outlets have run about the game's issues. 

 

More communication is always better than less, especially when dealing with launch issues.

 

The FAQ thread says "week of March 30."

[Jimmious]

 

 It should be common sense to not buy game immediately at launch if you can't handle bugs, If you've followed the gaming scene at all.

 

That is a very sad development then. Considering this is a kickstarter project.

 

What do you mean? I thought being a ks project means less money which in turns means less time for testing and quality assurance.

[Sanquiz]

Offended no, is normal to have bugs on a game, what i really want is have this game with the mayor bugs fixed asap before any visual or gameplay fix.

[Halric]

 

 

 

 

Customers shouldn't have to dig through support forums to search for posts from developers to try and estimate a delivery date on their own. 

Someone from Obsidian needs to step up and say: "Listen, we've got bugs, here is a list of issues we are working on, here are the ones we have fixed, a patch will be released in the next few weeks (or whatever time frame they think is reasonable). 

They have!  It'll be this week, which a pinned thread right at the top of the forum says!

 

 

Yes, you are right, there is a pinned post describing the bugs reported so far. But it makes no mention of when a patch is expected, and doesn't solve the issue that a pinned support forum post shouldn't be the sole method of a major update to your customers for a product. I would expect them to post it on their front page, or contact Polygon/Kotaku etc with a follow up response to the articles those media outlets have run about the game's issues. 

 

More communication is always better than less, especially when dealing with launch issues.

 

The FAQ thread says "week of March 30."

 

 

A pinned support forum post shouldn't be the sole method of a major update to your customers for a product. 

[sparklecat]

 

 

 

 

 

Customers shouldn't have to dig through support forums to search for posts from developers to try and estimate a delivery date on their own. 

Someone from Obsidian needs to step up and say: "Listen, we've got bugs, here is a list of issues we are working on, here are the ones we have fixed, a patch will be released in the next few weeks (or whatever time frame they think is reasonable). 

They have!  It'll be this week, which a pinned thread right at the top of the forum says!

 

 

Yes, you are right, there is a pinned post describing the bugs reported so far. But it makes no mention of when a patch is expected, and doesn't solve the issue that a pinned support forum post shouldn't be the sole method of a major update to your customers for a product. I would expect them to post it on their front page, or contact Polygon/Kotaku etc with a follow up response to the articles those media outlets have run about the game's issues. 

 

More communication is always better than less, especially when dealing with launch issues.

 

The FAQ thread says "week of March 30."

 

 

A pinned support forum post shouldn't be the sole method of a major update to your customers for a product. 

 

Stop moving the goalposts; the information is there, in a perfectly logical place, for anyone who takes a couple minutes to go looking.

Edited April 2, 2015 by sparklecat

[Jojobobo]

TBH, I just got a bug and which I posted on and it is very annoying - fortunately I had a save I could reload to. Though I'm not offended per se the way reports of these bugs are accumulating isn't particularly great, especially as they had an extensive beta test and really as much development time as they wanted (people may have been annoyed if they'd delayed further, but I know those who've experienced a nasty bug would have rather them had ironed out all the creases first).

 

I've also now got the stat stacking problem people have mentioned, giving me a much easier ride than I deserve - really who the hell wouldn't naturally save in the Guilded Vale? Hopefully this is another thing they can retrofix onto saves, I've already re-rolled numerous times as I got to grips with the mechanics and I'm really not keen to again.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Jojobobo

[Halric]

Stop moving the goalposts; the information is there, in a perfectly logical place, for anyone who takes a couple minutes to go looking.

 

I disagree, judging by the volume of people still asking when it will be released (I believe there was another post just this morning). You can stubbornly post it in one place and say, "that's good enough, just ignore all the other posts or chastise them for not finding it". Or you can say "If I have to keep telling people where to find it, perhaps I'm not communicating as well as I could." 

 

The goal posts have never moved, my point was always centered on communication as a tool to mitigate frustration. Previous examples would include such titles as Inquistion, Assassins Creed Unity, Watch Dogs, each of these titles I purchased and had launch issues. I didn't have to touch their forums to know what was going on. They know lots of people are experiencing issues, instead of waiting for customers to find the information, being proactive and releasing a public statement can mitigate a lot of the negative feelings. That's all I'm saying.

 

Unless I have overlooked a valid reason why it's better to only use the support forum? 

[Poprit]

Gee I don't want to know what other things in your daily life offend you, must be really stressful getting offended all the damn time.

 

Says the guy that almost assuredly has spent thousands of hours playing games. What a laugh.

 

That these merely game related issues are surely trivial in a wider context doesn't mean it makes sense to actually trivialize them. How many hours have you put into the game? How many hours do you game in general? If you're on a forum, good bet it's a lot. Gaming a huge part of many people's lives, and it's not incorrect or surprising to to feel "offended" about it.

 

As to the thread, yeah. Very disappointed and let down.

[pedroantonio]

They way I see it yet again I was sold a car without a wheel. It is that simple.

No, is not that simple at all. It's not a car without wheel, it's a car whose first manufacturing batch has a slight problem with the air conditioning, or with the electrical system; something annoying, but minor and that still allows you to drive.

 

With one important difference; your defective "car" will be repaired soon in a matter of hours (depending on your bandwith), without you being forced to drive it to the repair shop.

 

Considering that, I don't feel ofended. Just mildly annoyed, I'll survive.

[Los Wackos]

Very disappointed as well. I frankly don't understand the fanboys who feel the need to defend Obsidian, as if it's somehow in their own interest to do so. What do you get out of defending a half finished product that thousands of players are unwillingly beta testing?

[pedroantonio]

What do you get out of defending a half finished product that thousands of players are unwillingly beta testing?

I get the pleasure of knowing I'm mature and rational enough to wait a couple of weeks for some patches.

[Emerwyn]

I don't feel offended. I feel offended by companies that make soul-less RPG to nick and dime gamers. To Obsidian I am only grateful. The bugs will get fixed soon, and the superb game that PoE is will remain.

[sparklecat]

 

Stop moving the goalposts; the information is there, in a perfectly logical place, for anyone who takes a couple minutes to go looking.

 

I disagree, judging by the volume of people still asking when it will be released (I believe there was another post just this morning). You can stubbornly post it in one place and say, "that's good enough, just ignore all the other posts or chastise them for not finding it". Or you can say "If I have to keep telling people where to find it, perhaps I'm not communicating as well as I could." 

 

The goal posts have never moved, my point was always centered on communication as a tool to mitigate frustration. Previous examples would include such titles as Inquistion, Assassins Creed Unity, Watch Dogs, each of these titles I purchased and had launch issues. I didn't have to touch their forums to know what was going on. They know lots of people are experiencing issues, instead of waiting for customers to find the information, being proactive and releasing a public statement can mitigate a lot of the negative feelings. That's all I'm saying.

 

Unless I have overlooked a valid reason why it's better to only use the support forum? 

 

That they do not bother to look does not make it any less in a logical, easily accessible place, as well as being reported on in at least one news article I saw.  And I have never seen a single game where the developer posted some sort of front page update on the patch status.

 

Could Obsidian, in general, improve their communication?  Definitely.  But I don't think it's fair to act like they're communicating insufficiently in this case.

[Bhaal21]

so you bring up BG in your post which apparently you dont remember was just as buggy if not more so then this. all games have their issues. look at skyrim that game is one of the buggiest games still. even with all the patches it brakes and needs unofficial patches to work for a few hours without a crash.... so unbunch your panties and wait like the rest of us. yes the bugs are bad but they are working on it and last i heard expect to have the first patch done this week. is it really such a bad thing to need to play the game 2 or 3 more times?

[Tigranes]

I would be offended if they weren't working on the bugs, or if the bugs were unusually bad compared to other RPGs, or if the same bugs kept appearing in every game they make. 

[Katarack21]

 

I'm not suffering any bugs. Sorry to disappoint.

 

No bugs at all? Would be good if you stopped lying.

 

then yeah, sure. I've got a buggy game to. In other news I have a slight tickle in my throat. I'm deathly ill, you know.

 

Ah here we go. So there is bugs in your game. The OP does have a point and it doesn't help when people like yourself come online and tell lies.

 

Seriously? A minor numbers tracking being off, which I don't even count as a bug because seriously who ****ing cares, and your going to act like this? Seriously?

 

Do you accuse people of crimes because they messed up your order at BK, too? Maybe I should say "No bugs that affect gameplay in any way"? "No bugs that affect anything a reasonable person would care about"?

 

How's this. No save game corruptions, no crashes, no stat issues, no missing companions, no missing abilities, no triggered abilities staying present, no bugs that are noticeable in any way or that have any affect of any sort on any kind of gameplay. I'm going to play this game from beginning to end, out of the box, with absolutely zero problems or tribulations while doing so.

 

PS:

 

If they never, ever fixed that journal bug I would never, ever care.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Katarack21

[Los Wackos]

 

What do you get out of defending a half finished product that thousands of players are unwillingly beta testing?

I get the pleasure of knowing I'm mature and rational enough to wait a couple of weeks for some patches.

 

What's mature and rational about defending someone who treats you with disrespect? Obsidian (and many, many other devs) obviously hold a certain amount of disregard towards their own customers by essentially making them unpaid beta testers for their products, rather than actually polishing them before release (or, at minimum, warning people that the product in question is buggy).

 

That you try to frame it as if those who then complain about these practices are somehow immature and irrational is frankly an insult. I think you're mistaking maturity for meekness, which is what you're displaying by (let me repeat this) defending a company whom you gain absolutely nothing by defending.

 

 

so you bring up BG in your post which apparently you dont remember was just as buggy if not more so then this. all games have their issues. look at skyrim that game is one of the buggiest games still. even with all the patches it brakes and needs unofficial patches to work for a few hours without a crash.... so unbunch your panties and wait like the rest of us. yes the bugs are bad but they are working on it and last i heard expect to have the first patch done this week. is it really such a bad thing to need to play the game 2 or 3 more times?

 

I don't understand this line of reasoning. You seem to think that because Skyrim is buggy that it's then acceptable that PoE is too. Why? Why does one half baked product justify the existence of another? If one restaurant serves you a bad sandwich it's then fine that the rest do too?

 

You fanboys amaze me.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Los Wackos

[lucid1222]

I'm simply offended that you're offended.  Please stop being offended so that I can stop being offended.  Thanks.

[BugsVendor2]

So they put the patch notes on and I still am just as offended because it only proves my point. 

 

Lets have a look shall we ?

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/blog/7/entry-179-patch-notes-103/

 

Features

• Added graphics setting to toggle antialiasing levels. This can improve performance on lower end machines when disabled.
• Added pro tips to the Glossary.
• Many new icons for items.
• Added new voice set reactivity for lockpick, poison, enemy spotted in stealth, spell failure, death, immobilized, and completed task.
• Added indicators on the loot screen when looting crafting and quest items.
• Party can now use lockpicks that are in the Stash.
• You can now cast AoEs on party member portraits and the spell will be targeted at the companion's location.

 

 

 

 

Does this look to you like they have been completely taken by surprise ? Like they thought that the game was done and perfect and now they are such poor little things working over hours especially for us customers.

 

Or does it look like they had a huge back log of things to include post release ?

 

Tips to glossary? You had time to write strings in the middle of this rush to fix the game ?

 

new ICONS FOR ITEMS ? How did that happen ? Did you just spend your lunch breaks drawing and you decided to include it since you were shipping a patch anyway?

 

really guys ? you claim you have no life because of patching and UNEXPECTED issues but you have time for new features ? 

 

Balance

• Monk unarmed attack buffed by 1 point at the top end.
• Arbalest damage has been lowered.
• Fast melee weapons do slightly more damage.
• Slight bump to sabre damage.
• Tuned down Mind Blades.
• Tuned ranges of many Wizard spells to be higher.
• Slicken spell is now a single hit AoE.
• Chill Fog is now a friend or foe spell.
• Curse of Blackened Sight is now foe only.
• Changed reload speed multiplier from 2 to 1.2 for Sure-Handed Ila.
• Fixed the price on Seal of Faith.
• Adjusted price on figurines.
• Adjusted price on rings.
• Tuned up the Goldrot Chew.
• Reduced the penalties for Bonded Grief.
• Tuned up Bulwark of the Elements.
• Modified attributes of companions and Itumaak.
• Raised the bonus for having fewer than six party members from 5% per character under the limit to 10% per character under the limit.
• Added cooldown to NPC Rogue's Escape ability usage so they won't use it back to back.
• Rebalanced fight difficulty and spell selection for the Old Watcher.
• Lowered the scale of the Defiance Bay reputation by 15%.
• Beloved Spirits adds 0.4 Endurance to Ancient Memory instead of 2.
• Changed duration of the Flagellant's Path defense penalty.
• Adjustments to the Mantle of the Dying Boar.
• Reduced the price of the Brighthollow Hearth and Courtyard Pool.
• Heart of Fury will now apply to all damage types.
• Tuned damage on Brilliant Radiance down.

 

 

 

You also had time to analyse feedback and data to improve the balance of the game in detail. Isn't that sweet. Just for us customers.

 

Seriously just have a look for yourself it goes on and on.

 

This is not an at hoc unexpected bug fix that should never have happened. This is a marketing decision to ship first and work on it later. And I feel like the outrage is justified.

 

Before any of you fan boys will say that I am clearly out of my mind hating the patch please note I am criticising policy of releasing INTENTIONALLY unfinished product.

 

It's good they at least patch it for now instead of grabbing the money and run.

Edited April 2, 2015 by BugsVendor2

[Los Wackos]

or if the bugs were unusually bad compared to other RPGs

 

 

They are. Permanent debuffs, bloated stats that remove any challenge, inventory disappearing (including critical items), broken stronghold, broken ranger class. These are not minor annoyances.

 

How's this. No save game corruptions, no crashes, no stat issues, no missing companions, no missing abilities, no triggered abilities staying present, no bugs that are noticeable in any way or that have any affect of any sort on any kind of gameplay. I'm going to play this game from beginning to end, out of the box, with absolutely zero problems or tribulations while doing so.

 

Good for you. I believe you if you say you're not experiencing these bugs, but the rest of us are. And it's perfectly fine that we're pissed about it.