Controversial Limerick Discussion

[Mashiki]

I got news for you both if you think companies like Obsidian and Double Fine only care about equality when it literally infects them like a virus...

 

I need to laugh every time someone talks about this or that company "submitting" to "SJWs".

 

 

Except it's not equality, that's the problem.  Tell me something, if a bigot comes up to you and tells you that you're a bigot, do you do what they say?  See the backer memorial bit, look into the person and people in question and their actual statements then come back and tell me that it's "for equality."

 

I'll save you some time and whatnot, it's not.  Rather it's all about them, their epeens and how much they think they're "making a difference" by attacking something innocuous and creating their own narrative on it.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Mashiki

[Arsene Lupin]

Wow. I really didn't expect this topic to take off quite the way it has. Anyway....

 

ManifestedISO, and many others

Don't click on 'em, it's easy.

 

Their presence alone is immersion-breaking. Especially considering how many are Godlikes--and that problem doesn't go away no matter how you try to ignore or avoid them. The fact that many of them have lore-unfriendly names is likewise impossible to avoid, as you cannot tell which NPC is a backer NPC and which is not. At this point, the quality (or lack thereof) of the actual text is only of peripheral concern.

 

Hiro Protagonist II

My NPC has been written by Obsidian. Any complaints about the NPC's story, you'll have to take it up with the Obsidian writers.

 

That's kind of what I'm doing, isn't it?

 

Smoker

I literally think every 5th npc is a backer npc

 

Feels like a lot more than that. I'm only in act 2, but I've only encountered maybe a dozen or so named NPCs... and four or five times as many Gold NPCs.

 

Stratosj

People seem to be just looking for stuff to complain about.

 

I'm not really a big fan of masturbatory adulation, so yeah, I'm not going to ignore things I think are bad. You know why Pillars of Eternity 2 is going to end up being better than Pillars of Eternity? Because of the criticism. All of it.

 

MikeTheRed

I completely don't get why anyone is complaining about this.

 

And I don't get why you think it's more acceptable to complain about people complaining about this.

 

MikeTheRed

I bet these same people get really angry when they see someone enjoying a book they don't like.

 

You're the one getting angry that people are criticizing a (very small) aspect of a game you like. If the shoe fits, Cinderella.

 

Rumpelstilskin

FWIW, my NPC was completely changed by Obsidian. He was supposed to have a multiple-option dialog with attribute and inventory checks, and then a small scripted event.

 

Even with the Mary Sue characters, if even a fifth of the Gold NPCs had actual dialog options, I probably wouldn't mind them very much. For what it's worth, the relevation just makes the implementation of the Gold NPCs even weirder.

 

vsanders

Subject would have been better phrased as "I want an option to hide/remove..." There is clearly not a consensus on this issue.

 

I never implied that there was a consensus. I used the plural pronoun because I know that many other gamers share my opinion. If I had thought that every one of us, unanimously, disliked the Gold NPCs and wanted to remove them, then I wouldn't have suggested it be an option to hide/remove in the first place.

 

Bryy

It brings up the actually very valid point within the concept of crowdfunder-made content of what constitutes offensive content and how should the company regulate their crowdfunded content.

 

Whether or not the content is offensive or not is irrelevant. The topic at hand is not bigotry or offensiveness or political-correctedness or social-justice-warriors or whatever other nonsense--it's about keeping an RPG setting internally consistent and believable. It's about immersion.

 

AncientToaster

This topic was on Gamefaqs, I can only assume that it was the same person.

 

That kind of dismissive attitude is not helpful. At all. Guess what? There are literally millions of people on the Internet... there are hundreds of thousands of people playing Pillars of Eternity... When you see two or more people espousing the same opinion online, and assume that they are secretly the same person, you are acting in a profoundly foolish manner.

 

And for the record, I am active on GameFAQs. I have not seen a thread like this there. But my username there, as here, is Arsene Lupin.

 

Srex

Sure, I understand what you guys are saying, even if I don't agree.  I think they probably were in a sticky situation where they didn't want the people who pledged for an npc to feel shorted, but they also wanted the NPCs to integrate well into the game.

 

Very well said.

[Spekko]

I'm sure there will be a mod for this, but I'd also be perfectly happy with one that changed all their names to whatever generic title was most appropriate for the map (Villager, Commoner, Adventurer, etc) and changed all the ones that are godlikes to some other random race. That would fix both of the things that annoy me about them. Having read a few of the stories, I thought most were pretty okay, actually, and better than I expected overall.

 

(Aside from the fact that they all start with "You see..." which is a little annoying.)

[BruceVC]

 

 

I would hate to see another company submit to the whines of SJWs. 

SJW's aren't the market, so a company submitting to them makes no sense.  The only value that they provide is the amount of whining, and their threats to the company in question.  I'd actually say they're no different than al sharpton or the mob.  "Nice company you've got here, it'd be a shame if someone called you guys sexist/misogynists/racists/etc."

 

I got news for you both if you think companies like Obsidian and Double Fine only care about equality when it literally infects them like a virus...

 

I need to laugh every time someone talks about this or that company "submitting" to "SJWs".

 

 

I'm not sure I can handle another "its the fault of SJW that Obsidian did this or did that" 

 

 

Those that know me know that I am absolutely committed to SJ causes and I can promise you following 

 

• we are not responsible for the death of JFK
• we are not responsible for the financial crisis of 2008
• we do not influence Obsidian on gaming design decisions 

 

Guys don't believe what GG told you about us, its just not true 

[Mashiki]

 

 

I'm not sure I can handle another "its the fault of SJW that Obsidian did this or did that" 

 

 

Those that know me know that I am absolutely committed to SJ causes and I can promise you following 

 

• we are not responsible for the death of JFK
• we are not responsible for the financial crisis of 2008
• we do not influence Obsidian on gaming design decisions 

 

Guys don't believe what GG told you about us, its just not true 

 

 

You know I don't think mentioned that.  Then again, there are plenty of sjw's who are 'absolutely committed' and go out of their way to ruin peoples lives for holding the wrong opinions in their view.  They also go out of their way to make mountains out of mole hills, there are also plenty who will lie through their teeth and use the playbook of  alinksky, to turn something that isn't an issue into said mountain.  You may or may not have noticed this, but while you don't fall into that mould, plenty of others do.  Much like they'll go out of their way to disrupt public events, push companies to fire someone because of the private actions, and so on.  There is no justice in any of those actions, those are the actions of a mob of people who are perpetually offended because of their own petty reasons.

 

What you think "GG tells people about you" isn't the thing.  It's the actions of sjw's themselves that's causing the pushback because they've had enough.

[Nerdwing]

You reach out to the soul.  What it says horrifies you to your core..

 

 

*Uses SJW unironicaly*

 

 

You wretch instinctively, and return to your own body.  You've shat your pants.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Nerdwing

[Bryy]

 

I got news for you both if you think companies like Obsidian and Double Fine only care about equality when it literally infects them like a virus...

 

I need to laugh every time someone talks about this or that company "submitting" to "SJWs".

 

 

Except it's not equality, that's the problem.  Tell me something, if a bigot comes up to you and tells you that you're a bigot, do you do what they say?

Pro tip: just because someone finds something offensive that you don't doesn't make them a bigot. People have the right to speak up, and reacting by going to the extreme is lame.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Bryy

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

I'm not sure I can handle another "its the fault of SJW that Obsidian did this or did that" 

 

 

Those that know me know that I am absolutely committed to SJ causes and I can promise you following 

 

• we are not responsible for the death of JFK
• we are not responsible for the financial crisis of 2008
• we do not influence Obsidian on gaming design decisions 

 

Guys don't believe what GG told you about us, its just not true 

 

 

You know I don't think mentioned that.  Then again, there are plenty of sjw's who are 'absolutely committed' and go out of their way to ruin peoples lives for holding the wrong opinions in their view.  They also go out of their way to make mountains out of mole hills, there are also plenty who will lie through their teeth and use the playbook of  alinksky, to turn something that isn't an issue into said mountain.  You may or may not have noticed this, but while you don't fall into that mould, plenty of others do.  Much like they'll go out of their way to disrupt public events, push companies to fire someone because of the private actions, and so on.  There is no justice in any of those actions, those are the actions of a mob of people who are perpetually offended because of their own petty reasons.

 

What you think "GG tells people about you" isn't the thing.  It's the actions of sjw's themselves that's causing the pushback because they've had enough.

 

 

Sure I hear you and I don't disagree. There are examples of SJW ( I really don't like that term because it has a negative connotation for many )  that have raised issues around inclusivity that are just unreasonable or more disruptive than constructive . But we mustn't generalize and think all people who raise SJ issues are automatically wrong or misplaced. But I think we can agree on this, sometimes issues raised by people who believe in SJ causes are valid ?

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I wish these npcs were in the backer beta, I woulda bitched there

 

Did you even play the beta? They were in the beta for quite some time.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

you cannot tell which NPC is a backer NPC and which is not. At this point, the quality (or lack thereof) of the actual text is only of peripheral concern. 

 

Stop lying. Of course you can tell which are the backer NPCs and which are not. 

 

That's kind of what I'm doing, isn't it? 

 

No, not really.

 

 

I'm only in act 2, but I've only encountered maybe a dozen or so named NPCs... and four or five times as many Gold NPCs.

 

Look at it this way. Without the backer NPC's, there wouldn't be much people around the maps. And when you click on non-backer NPCs, a lot of them don't have much to say if anything at all. In fact, you have no back story with them. At least you're getting a story written by Obsidian with the backer NPC's.

 

 

Whether or not the content is offensive or not is irrelevant. The topic at hand is not bigotry or offensiveness or political-correctedness or social-justice-warriors or whatever other nonsense--it's about keeping an RPG setting internally consistent and believable. It's about immersion.

 

And one of the themes with the game is your PC can look into souls. The backer NPCs show this with your power. It is internally consistent with the game world. And peering into souls is part of that. Similar to other NPCs in the game.

[Darji]

 

^{Basically, stop with the nonsense and your overreacting and end this stupid discussion.}

 

^{But it's not stupid.}

 

^{It brings up the actually very valid point within the concept of crowdfunder-made content of what constitutes offensive content and how should the company regulate their crowdfunded content.}

 

^{No it is not offensive in any way. In fact it makes fun of the guy who killed himself. Nothing else. And this trope of stupid people die because of stupid reasons is a pretty common Thing in western RPGs. Some People just get way more easily offendd then others but there is nothing wrong with being offended or not likeing something. It only goes bad if you try to remove it also for others. Your freedom is that you can just ignore it.}

 

^{Also this is a bit off topic about the whole offensive discussion. I firmly believe that only if ist taboo to make fun of a group or minority in general. This group is not really accepted in our society.   Comedy should have no Limits. comedy also should be offensive. Most comedy is based on making fun of misfortune oher people. This is one of the basic concepts of comedy.}

 

^{And this gravestone for example is exactly that. And I will say it again. It makes fun of the guy who died not the one he slept with.}

 

^{edit: somehow the whole Format is messed up. I am sorry for that^^}

 

 

Edited April 1, 2015 by Darji

[vattghern]

First time I came across one of these I was intrigued that it would be a gameplay mechanic where you can confront the NPCs with what you saw in their thoughts leading to quests etc. Imagine my dismay when it dawned on me that these are just pointless text dumps. When I came upon Sturm Brightblade I realized reading these signposts was a waste of time and didn't bother interacting with any more of them.

 

I understand that Obsidian can't do this officially, but I'd be grateful for a mod that lets me blot out these immersion-breaking NPCs.

[Zwiebelchen]

I mean it's definitely a grey area. It's rather horrible but does it outright say the person he slept with is transgender? It sounds like someone morphed into a female, slept with him, then morphed back. 

 

Not it doesn't. That's the funniest part of all this fuzz. It doesn't actually say that the bed-partner disguised himself as a woman or pretended to be one. They could both have just been straight men to begin with and just drank way too much alcohol.

 

That's why this discussion is so ridicolous and why the transphobia critics on this joke are hilarious.

[Smoker]

 

I wish these npcs were in the backer beta, I woulda bitched there

 

Did you even play the beta? They were in the beta for quite some time.

 

I went in the town and the surrounding areas, where were they? They must have been added late.

 

"And one of the themes with the game is your PC can look into souls. The backer NPCs show this with your power. It is internally consistent with the game world. And peering into souls is part of that. Similar to other NPCs in the game."

 

They just seem out of place(maybe it's all the godlike) compared to the interactive souls.

 

P.S I don't like hitting tab or having everything showing.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Smoker

[synfrei]

Pillars of Eternity is a really, really fantastic game, you know? But part of it kind of sucks: the backer NPCs. You know the ones: all of the yellow-bar NPCs whose souls you can peer into, and read a short story about.

Oh... so far i did not noticed them as backers ) I like them be in the game, For my opinion iam ok with the solution, the streets feeling more living and the soul feat from my main character feels to me to makes more sense as there so much soulds/stories i peer into... i just wondered sometimes, why NSC and Story dont fit to me, but now i know why *g*

Thank you for pledging and supporting Obsidian, without you i would not playing so a great game!

[glaspeylawson]

I don't usually like drama but this censorship has to stop! I really hope Obsidian leaves this joke in and I also hope they make another tomb stone that takes a swipe at these SJW's.        

 

Be the first developer to say "no this is our creative vision, deal with it"  If this game  released in like 2007 or 2008, this problem or outcry would not exist. People seem to be unable to take a joke these days.  

 

 

"...an artist strives to frame his ideals in an image, to challenge his audience and make his vision immortal. But the Parasites say, "NO! Your art must serve the cause! Your ideals endanger the people!"

"Lacking its own ingenuity, the Parasite fears the visionary. What it cannot plagiarize, it seeks to censor; what it cannot regulate, it seeks to ban..."

Edited April 1, 2015 by glaspeylawson

[TheHarpoMarxist]

I've really been enjoying the game, but I was saddened to learn that one of the backers included a transphobic limerick.  

 

I'm disappointed Obsidian didn't vet that content well, but I'm encouraged that Sawyer is looking into it now, and I hope that the right call is made.  This is such an incidental, minor part of the game that including it serves no particular function, and its existence sours an otherwise amazing game experience.

Thanks!

[Marceror]

This thread has been totally bastardize by mods merging threads. Look at the OP. It's not about "the joke". It's about having an option to hide backer NPCs. Tsk, tsk.

 

#ModsMakeMistakesToo

[ProjectBG2Respawn]

I actually cringe when I hear the soul sound effect now. You can click talk on a npc faster than waiting for the npc name so that's why it's throwing me off.

 

Tabulation bro, tabulation.

 

And i agree with the OP, this isn't very bad since they're totally optionnal but i find the idea not good at all.

 

The worst part of it is that you can't discuss normally with them... It's like they're gods you know : untouchables, far from the real world, they hang out with others like them and never with a "normal" being... It gives the impression it's a mod created by an amateur.

 

 

Generally, they're totally useless for the lore of the ambiance. Their stories aren't instructing and not in relation with the world you live in. Sometimes it's just a story of someone who goes out buying bread : who cares ?

 

I don't talk to them anymore, useless.

 

 

But i want to precise that i don't give a **** if they are here or not. They don't really bother me, just wanted to give my opinion about them.

[Rosveen]

In case you're serious, I hasten to assure you the limerick isn't transphobic and the whole situation was blown out of proportion. In other words, you're late to the party, but thanks for trying! Have a cookie to sustain you on your way out.

[TheHarpoMarxist]

I've heard the person who wrote the limerick is okay with removing it, and just hadn't realized the limerick was hurtful.  

 

It is sad to see so many people fighting so hard to defend something that is at best irrelevant to the game entirely, and at worst souring the experience for a lot of people.  Its NBD, so why not just take it out?  It isn't part of Obsidian's artistic vision for the game, its a tacked on content that should have been vetted better.

[PhantomEidolon]

I keep seeing threads about this but i got no content of reference about it, because i haven't gotten to play the game yet. -Just another gamer stuck in character creation stage

[Valsuelm]

Try to be charitable to one another in this thread. Also, I've combined a couple of pro memorial/anti memorial threads. I don't think we can avoid some heated discussions. Fair enough. ...But we can *try* to keep them in one spot. Please confine fiery wrath to arguments and positions and not use it on other members. :Cant's bemused smile icon:

 

Please refrain from combining threads.

 

Conversations, even if related, often make little sense when this is done. Certainly that is the case with this thread.

 

Moderation tip that you and most of the other moderators desperately need to take to heart: The less moderation the better.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Valsuelm

[Alaborn]

I've really been enjoying the game, but I was saddened to learn that one of the backers included a transphobic limerick.  

 

I'm disappointed Obsidian didn't vet that content well, but I'm encouraged that Sawyer is looking into it now, and I hope that the right call is made.  This is such an incidental, minor part of the game that including it serves no particular function, and its existence sours an otherwise amazing game experience.

Thanks!

 

Yes i agree, it is a non issue and thats why the developers should not waste time doing anything about it, and instead spend their time fixing the real issues

[khermann]

transphobic? Is that a word? does it mean a phobia of transgender people? because I think I have that. Not in a cognitive way, i mean, to each their own, but when I see and talk with a transgender person I have a visceral repulsion and something deep down is informing me that the entire situation is unhealthy and I should try to find a way to politely remove myself from the situation. 

 

I'm not intolerant if I understand something, yet find it to be repulsive.