Journalism and bias in the gaming industry

[Blarghagh]

It's that Dr Suess story he's referenced several times that's about two sides being jerks to each other while pretending they're innocent. Forget what it's called. Dr Seuss doesn't translate well, for obvious reasons, so he's not really big here.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=11&v=vFdTVMiD0UI

 

Great job essjaydubbyas, you made sure this evil misogynist can no longer make women feel unsafe or insecure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"You seem to generalize about every single SJW when you have an issue..and that seems to often fairly regularly. But I suppose you also don't mean every single SJW so my concern seems  a little silly. My bad "

 

You should be asking yourself WHY I do that.

 

 

 

"But now this debate becomes difficult to have with you if really believe that every single SJ movement or suggestion is about control and slavery..that's  just a negative  and unhelpful generalization. Can you not see anything positive about the SJ movement ?"

 

No. NOTHING. Next youa re going claim that the Nazis had some postive stuff too. L0L Nazis were also about power, control, and slavery.

 

Well its clear why you make generalizations about SJW, you are woefully uninformed about the broader SJ movement. You only see the movement in the context of gaming and how it impacts you 

 

I can help you change that mindset..but it will take time as I'll be honest there will be  loads of work and understanding for us  to get through?

 

 

Oh?

 

What if all of this started with a MALE developer, lets call him Zachary Quinn, sleeping with five female journalists for favourable coverage. Not only that, he would've sabotaged a game jam, then created his own with a personal paypal account for donations. He would've also gone to court and solicited a gag order on his former lover, who wrote an embaressing blog about their relationship. Finally, thanks to his friends and connections he would've silenced discussions about the affairs on Reddit, 4chan and so on. Tell me, how would the mainstream media have handled this?

 

 

Difficult to say. Its always hard  to comment on a hypothetical example  when the scenario is so unlikely

 

But if he was being harassed online like Zoe Quinn I'm sure he would have received support from some people?

 

 

Don't pretend to be dumb now. Would've the SJWs listen and believed Zachary Quinn's story and defended him unquestionally?

 

 

Well you wont like my answer but I doubt it. And the reason is not because SJW don't care about  white, heterosexual males its more to  do with the reality that this group is the least likely group in the world that is discriminated against. So the SJ structures aren't understandably so evolved for discrimination against this group so I imagine there just would naturally be less outrage?

 

That's why I said the scenario is very unlikely

 

So you're saying that SJWs in general put more value on the identity, in terms of race and sex, of an individual accused of/claiming to be the victim of wrongdoing rather than the validity of the claims presented?

Edited April 19, 2015 by KaineParker

[Nonek]

It's becoming fairly obvious that social justice is merely a cover for a hypocritical hate movement now, they don't represent anybody but extremists. As a moderate i'm not stooping to their level when pointing this out, i'm merely naturally as a reasonable person expressing disgust for a movement that is proud of boasting actual neo nazi's and genocide advocates as revered members of their community. Whereas I (and most other reasonable normal people) would distance myself and shun anybody whom followed such extremism, whether they were on my "side" or not.

 

Standing up for the truth and not buying into media lies is not an extremist view, it is merely sensible scepticism. Gamergate is a sensible moderates response to game journalistic corruption, it is not extreme at all to ask for journalists to do their jobs, and is fit for purpose for a multi billion dollar industry. Only an idiot would state that such a multi billion dollar industry does not need ethical reporting and standards of practise.

 

The extremists are on one side the SJF's stating that gamers are dead, calling millions of diverse people neckbearded scum and basement dwellers, and abusing their control of the media to paint any criticism of them as harassment rather than truthful criticism, while using doxxing, censorship, harassment and threats against anyone whom disagrees with their ideology. On the other side of that extremist scale are the harassers whom allegedly threatened, doxxed and abused various public figures, because they were too invested in gaming as a culture when it is in reality a passtime.

 

Gamergate is in neither of these camps, they have tried to stop any harassment, report any abuse to the relevant authorities and deal with the fact that game journalism is pathetic, corrupt, unethical, unfit for purpose and now openly expressing hatred for us honest consumers whom play games as a passtime. To say that the reasonable goals of Gamergate is extremist is just dishonest, like the numerous false, unproven accusations of harassment levelled at it.

 

Edit: In my own opinion of course.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Nonek

[Volourn]

"e SJW don't care about  white, heterosexual males its more to  do with the reality that this group is the least likely group in the world that is discriminated against."

 

Why do you keep lying?

[Meshugger]

 

 

 

 

 

"You seem to generalize about every single SJW when you have an issue..and that seems to often fairly regularly. But I suppose you also don't mean every single SJW so my concern seems  a little silly. My bad "

 

You should be asking yourself WHY I do that.

 

 

 

"But now this debate becomes difficult to have with you if really believe that every single SJ movement or suggestion is about control and slavery..that's  just a negative  and unhelpful generalization. Can you not see anything positive about the SJ movement ?"

 

No. NOTHING. Next youa re going claim that the Nazis had some postive stuff too. L0L Nazis were also about power, control, and slavery.

 

Well its clear why you make generalizations about SJW, you are woefully uninformed about the broader SJ movement. You only see the movement in the context of gaming and how it impacts you 

 

I can help you change that mindset..but it will take time as I'll be honest there will be  loads of work and understanding for us  to get through? 

 

 

Oh?

 

What if all of this started with a MALE developer, lets call him Zachary Quinn, sleeping with five female journalists for favourable coverage. Not only that, he would've sabotaged a game jam, then created his own with a personal paypal account for donations. He would've also gone to court and solicited a gag order on his former lover, who wrote an embaressing blog about their relationship. Finally, thanks to his friends and connections he would've silenced discussions about the affairs on Reddit, 4chan and so on. Tell me, how would the mainstream media have handled this?

 

 

Difficult to say. Its always hard  to comment on a hypothetical example  when the scenario is so unlikely

 

But if he was being harassed online like Zoe Quinn I'm sure he would have received support from some people? 

 

 

Don't pretend to be dumb now. Would've the SJWs listen and believed Zachary Quinn's story and defended him unquestionally?

 

 

Well you wont like my answer but I doubt it. And the reason is not because SJW don't care about  white, heterosexual males its more to  do with the reality that this group is the least likely group in the world that is discriminated against. So the SJ structures aren't understandably so evolved for discrimination against this group so I imagine there just would naturally be less outrage?

 

That's why I said the scenario is very unlikely  

 

 

So social justice has to be applied to certain groups of people on the expense of others? Isn't that inheritely injustice? 

 

Which that is my point. Making social justice a zero-sum game where some are more equal than others will never work.

[Meshugger]

 

 

Don't pretend to be dumb now. Would've the SJWs listen and believed Zachary Quinn's story and defended him unquestionally?

Depends. But that has nothing to do with the point he was making. The point that generalization is a sure way to get something wrong. It's funny really, on one side you have "SJWs" believing that "GGers" are the spawn of satan. On other side you have "GGers" believing that "SJWs" are the spawn of satan. It kinda reminds me of what veterans said in Band of Brothers about germans. That at first they thought they were the evilest people in the world. But as the war went along, they realised that it wasn't germans per se, but SS and nazis. And that under different circumstances they might've been good friends. Also, whenever you feel like blaming an entire group of people for something, i recommend watching this video.

 

 

 

The "both sides are equally bad"-argument? Sure, I play along. Please point out what GG done wrong and how that can be equally bad as these SJWs. 

 

Also, see Nonek's post. 

[Legbiter]

lol

 

SJW's are now driving women out of Geek culture?

 

What a world.

[licketysplit]

lol

 

SJW's are now driving women out of Geek culture?

 

What a world.

 

I watched the above video. when she talks about being spit on in shop class I almost teared up. I mean Jesus christ, where in the hell in Canada do kids do that kind of stuff and get away with it?

[Sakai]

 

The "both sides are equally bad"-argument? Sure, I play along. Please point out what GG done wrong and how that can be equally bad as these SJWs. 

 

Also, see Nonek's post. 

Did you read what i said? Because it seems to me like you didn't. A clue, i couldn't care less who's worse.

[Meshugger]

 

 

The "both sides are equally bad"-argument? Sure, I play along. Please point out what GG done wrong and how that can be equally bad as these SJWs. 

 

Also, see Nonek's post. 

Did you read what i said? Because it seems to me like you didn't. A clue, i couldn't care less who's worse.

 

 

I am willing to give a point if you can point out any antiGG that's not waving the banner of social justice. Mind you, there are several opportunists just riding along, like Anita.

 

Kinda off-topic: This just popped up on the #GamerGate-twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/589627346052853760

https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3320vb/wikileaks_has_proof_fox_disney_nbcuniversal/

 

Eeep.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Meshugger

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Corporations attempting to take control of communication? We're in Shadowrun now.

[Hurlshort]

 

The "both sides are equally bad"-argument? Sure, I play along. Please point out what GG done wrong and how that can be equally bad as these SJWs. 

 

Also, see Nonek's post. 

 

 

If this thread is an example of GG, then I would point to it.  

 

It is filled with vitriol and derision towards random people that seem to live on Twitter.  Many of these twitter residents are clearly unstable, and yet they are continually mocked and laughed at.  It can't seem to stay focused on actual ethics in game journalism, but instead constantly drifts towards crass humor about feminism and patriarchy.  A few pages ago someone posted a twitter comment from some non-celebrity about rape, and we got a page full of rape humor.  

 

All of this might be more fitting for this forum if we actually had any SJW's running around in WOT.  But we don't.  So instead it just turns into a big circle jerk.  They use Bruce as a target, but he's not really a SJW.  Quacking like a duck does not make you a duck.  What censorship movement is he even involved in?  He doesn't even report posts here, he raves about GTA and defends strip clubs.  Get a clue, he is just playing devil's advocate. 

[Namutree]

Corporations attempting to take control of communication? We're in Shadowrun now.

Finally. I can now say I have a fetish and no one will think I'm some kinda pervert.

 

[BruceVC]

 

 

The "both sides are equally bad"-argument? Sure, I play along. Please point out what GG done wrong and how that can be equally bad as these SJWs. 

 

Also, see Nonek's post. 

 

 

If this thread is an example of GG, then I would point to it.  

 

It is filled with vitriol and derision towards random people that seem to live on Twitter.  Many of these twitter residents are clearly unstable, and yet they are continually mocked and laughed at.  It can't seem to stay focused on actual ethics in game journalism, but instead constantly drifts towards crass humor about feminism and patriarchy.  A few pages ago someone posted a twitter comment from some non-celebrity about rape, and we got a page full of rape humor.  

 

All of this might be more fitting for this forum if we actually had any SJW's running around in WOT.  But we don't.  So instead it just turns into a big circle jerk.  They use Bruce as a target, but he's not really a SJW.  Quacking like a duck does not make you a duck.  What censorship movement is he even involved in?  He doesn't even report posts here, he raves about GTA and defends strip clubs.  Get a clue, he is just playing devil's advocate. 

 

Hurlshot had made some excellent points and I encourage everyone to read this post

 

I do often attempt to debate and position devils advocate which gets misconstrued as  me pushing a SJ agenda. Yet of course sometimes the SJ element is what matters more than the alternating perspective. For example the Indiana Freedom of Religion law was about the SJ issue.

 

And the SJW is just easier to use because you get called that anyway, I have often stated I prefer saying " I support various SJ causes " ...which is exactly what I tell people in RL when I meet them and they ask me what are hobbies or similar questions 

[Fighter]

I agree that Jonathan McIntosh, MovieBob., Brianna Wu, and other twitter residents, are clearly mentally unstable. I'm so sorry I ever mocked them.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I agree that Jonathan McIntosh, MovieBob., Brianna Wu, and other twitter residents, are clearly mentally unstable. I'm so sorry I ever mocked them.

You should be, laughing at people on twitter is literally rape.

[Fighter]

You should be, laughing at people on twitter is literally rape.

 

Unless they are the right people. Then they are the great "problem" of our whole culture and should be rounded up and reported to FBI.

 

But anyone that doesn't fit that category is a harmless unstable snowflake and how dare anyone hurt their feels.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

You should be, laughing at people on twitter is literally rape.

 

Unless they are the right people. Then they are the great "problem" of our whole culture and should be rounded up and reported to FBI.

 

But anyone that doesn't fit that category is a harmless unstable snowflake and how dare anyone hurt their feels.

http://www.cotwa.info/2010/05/catherine-comins-actual-quote-about.html

 

Catherine Comins, assistant dean of student life at Vassar, also sees some value in this loose use of "rape." She says angry victims of various forms of sexual intimidation cry rape to regain their sense of power. "To use the word carefully would be to be careful for the sake of the violator, and the survivors don't care a hoot about him." Comins argues that men who are unjustly accused can sometimes gain from the experience. "They have a lot of pain, but it is not a pain that I would necessarily have spared them. I think it ideally initiates a process of self-exploration. 'How do I see women?' 'If I didn't violate her, could I have?' 'Do I have the potential to do to her what they say I did?' Those are good questions."

Being accused of rape is a good thing apparently.

Edited April 19, 2015 by KaineParker

[Fighter]

^ Clearly she is just a Twitter nobody and doesn't represent feminism in any way. How dare you.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

^ Clearly she is just a Twitter nobody and doesn't represent feminism in any way. How dare you.

I'm a bad man. Laughing at middle-class women on twitter is a heinous offense, unlike certain sects of Islam mutilating female genitals or forcing rape victims(of the forceful penetration type, not the much more traumatizing variety of being mansplained to on twitter) to marry their rapists. We're the hate group and they're the religion of peace.

[Hurlshort]

And the circle jerk continues.

[Sakai]

I'm a bad man. Laughing at middle-class women on twitter is a heinous offense, unlike certain sects of Islam mutilating female genitals or forcing rape victims(of the forceful penetration type, not the much more traumatizing variety of being mansplained to on twitter) to marry their rapists. We're the hate group and they're the religion of peace.

It's not a "heinous offense". It just means that you're not that much better then the people you're laughing at.

[Fighter]

And the circle jerk continues.

 

It's the end of days. Get to your bunker to escape the cosmic horror.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Fighter

[Meshugger]

If this thread is an example of GG, then I would point to it.  

 

It is filled with vitriol and derision towards random people that seem to live on Twitter.  Many of these twitter residents are clearly unstable, and yet they are continually mocked and laughed at.

Good. Mocking them with humor is how you show how powerless they are. Keep at it.

 

It can't seem to stay focused on actual ethics in game journalism, but instead constantly drifts towards crass humor about feminism and patriarchy.

So what?

 

A few pages ago someone posted a twitter comment from some non-celebrity about rape, and we got a page full of rape humor.

"I think it's the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately." - George Carlin

 

All of this might be more fitting for this forum if we actually had any SJW's running around in WOT.  But we don't.  So instead it just turns into a big circle jerk.

True, would be more fun with some more debate.

 

They use Bruce as a target, but he's not really a SJW.  Quacking like a duck does not make you a duck.  What censorship movement is he even involved in?  He doesn't even report posts here, he raves about GTA and defends strip clubs.  Get a clue, he is just playing devil's advocate.

So what? He hasn't been harassed or reported either. He presents and argument like anyone else and it gets debated.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Meshugger

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

I'm a bad man. Laughing at middle-class women on twitter is a heinous offense, unlike certain sects of Islam mutilating female genitals or forcing rape victims(of the forceful penetration type, not the much more traumatizing variety of being mansplained to on twitter) to marry their rapists. We're the hate group and they're the religion of peace.

It's not a "heinous offense". It just means that you're not that much better then the people you're laughing at.

 

When I defend harassment as a good thing that can teach the victim something about themselves, then perhaps you'll have a point.