Why does this game run poorly?

[Ebolaids]

This game runs at literally 23fps average.

 

Even GrindWars 2 runs at a steady 40fps on low settings on my laptop.

Even skyrim on medium runs at 30fps.

Even runescape WHICH IS MADE IN JAVA runs fine.

 

 

Intel core i5 3317u

Intel HD 4000

4gb DDR3

120GB SSD

 

 

What happened to real programmers? When games used to be optimized?

 

It almost feels like someone paid Obsidian to make the game run like crap to force people to buy new hardware. Im not even joking.

 

Cant EDIT: Title edited.

[Justinian]

 

 

Well, I have the GOG version, so it's not the overhead. Also, judging from other forums, my rig should be able to run the game smoothly... instead, I get less than 10 fps in crowded areas.

 

You mentioned in an earlier post using an HD4870 - is that the 512MB VRAM model? If so, it might be lack of VRAM (I've seen GPU memory usage reach 600MB at 2560x1600) - try installing MSI Afterburner to check on your usage.

 

If your system is maxing out on VRAM, check you're not forcing any graphics enhancements like AA in Catalyst Control Centre and try running the game at a lower resolution with MSAA disabled (open console with ~, press Enter, type msaa 0, press Enter again).

 

Another option might be to try overclocking your HD4870 if you're not already doing so (MSI Afterburner should be able to do that, but keep an eye on temperatures) but that won't help much if lack of VRAM is the problem.

 

Thanks. Nope, it's the 1GB version, so on-specs, so to speak. Thing is: it is handling effects pretty well so far. It just is the models that my rig has a hard time with.

 

BTW: the character creation screen is also a pain; somehow, my clicks are 'lagging' and the cursor is trailing. Not a big deal though, the crowded areas is more of a gamebreaker for me

 

I'll look into Afterburner though...

 

 

The crowded areas are taxing on the CPU, not graphics card. You can do a really simple test by pausing in a crowded area (Copperlane) and scrolling around. You'll notice performance improve dramatically despite rendering the same scene.

[WDeranged]

NPCs definitely tax the CPU but the game still drops frames with CPU and GPU to spare.  I get the same thing in Wasteland 2 so I'm thinking the problem is to do with how the engine is being used, patches have helped a lot but it still lags for me in some areas.

[mindswayer]

 

 

 

Well, I have the GOG version, so it's not the overhead. Also, judging from other forums, my rig should be able to run the game smoothly... instead, I get less than 10 fps in crowded areas.

 

You mentioned in an earlier post using an HD4870 - is that the 512MB VRAM model? If so, it might be lack of VRAM (I've seen GPU memory usage reach 600MB at 2560x1600) - try installing MSI Afterburner to check on your usage.

 

If your system is maxing out on VRAM, check you're not forcing any graphics enhancements like AA in Catalyst Control Centre and try running the game at a lower resolution with MSAA disabled (open console with ~, press Enter, type msaa 0, press Enter again).

 

Another option might be to try overclocking your HD4870 if you're not already doing so (MSI Afterburner should be able to do that, but keep an eye on temperatures) but that won't help much if lack of VRAM is the problem.

 

Thanks. Nope, it's the 1GB version, so on-specs, so to speak. Thing is: it is handling effects pretty well so far. It just is the models that my rig has a hard time with.

 

BTW: the character creation screen is also a pain; somehow, my clicks are 'lagging' and the cursor is trailing. Not a big deal though, the crowded areas is more of a gamebreaker for me

 

I'll look into Afterburner though...

 

 

The crowded areas are taxing on the CPU, not graphics card. You can do a really simple test by pausing in a crowded area (Copperlane) and scrolling around. You'll notice performance improve dramatically despite rendering the same scene.

 

Actually, for me, even if I pause it, the game doesn't increase FPS.

Only thing that seems to help is restarting the client. I was in Burial Isles yesterday at 40fps, restarted and boom, 60. ****in' weird man. Maybe it's because I usually play for 6+ hours straight.

Edited April 1, 2015 by mindswayer

[AstralWanderer]

The crowded areas are taxing on the CPU, not graphics card...

They should actually affect both - the CPU with more NPC scripts active and the GPU with more models to render.

 

If framerates are low when there is spare CPU capacity (as measured on Task Manager) and GPU capacity (as measured by MSI Afterburner) then that does point the finger at the game engine.

 

Even with systems running at 60+ fps, the resources used (600MB VRAM, 1.5GB system RAM) are still extraordinarily high for a fixed perspective isometric game. However optimisation is (and should be) the last thing done, with bug-fixing taking priority. So there's a very good chance of future patches improving matters for those who've not been able to find a fix here.

[Justinian]

 

 

 

 

Well, I have the GOG version, so it's not the overhead. Also, judging from other forums, my rig should be able to run the game smoothly... instead, I get less than 10 fps in crowded areas.

 

You mentioned in an earlier post using an HD4870 - is that the 512MB VRAM model? If so, it might be lack of VRAM (I've seen GPU memory usage reach 600MB at 2560x1600) - try installing MSI Afterburner to check on your usage.

 

If your system is maxing out on VRAM, check you're not forcing any graphics enhancements like AA in Catalyst Control Centre and try running the game at a lower resolution with MSAA disabled (open console with ~, press Enter, type msaa 0, press Enter again).

 

Another option might be to try overclocking your HD4870 if you're not already doing so (MSI Afterburner should be able to do that, but keep an eye on temperatures) but that won't help much if lack of VRAM is the problem.

 

Thanks. Nope, it's the 1GB version, so on-specs, so to speak. Thing is: it is handling effects pretty well so far. It just is the models that my rig has a hard time with.

 

BTW: the character creation screen is also a pain; somehow, my clicks are 'lagging' and the cursor is trailing. Not a big deal though, the crowded areas is more of a gamebreaker for me

 

I'll look into Afterburner though...

 

 

The crowded areas are taxing on the CPU, not graphics card. You can do a really simple test by pausing in a crowded area (Copperlane) and scrolling around. You'll notice performance improve dramatically despite rendering the same scene.

 

Actually, for me, even if I pause it, the game doesn't increase FPS.

Only thing that seems to help is restarting the client. I was in Burial Isles yesterday at 40fps, restarted and boom, 60. ****in' weird man. Maybe it's because I usually play for 6+ hours straight.

 

 

Ah OK, you're getting a different type of frame drop than me. Mine are pretty consistently either in Copperlane or when spells go off. Haven't run across any random drops for no reason, but it definitely sounds like an issue that should be fixed. A game should never slow down the longer you play.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Justinian

[Andrew_Grey]

To add to the issue of game FPS slowing down with time, I've tried to experiment a little.

 

Fist of all - big thanks to Dev team for making this game, the beginning looks awesome. I also remember, that it's the 5th day after release, and the game of such scale is bound to have bugs to be fixed in time. We've had bugs in Fallout, in Planescape, in Baldur's Gates, in Arcanum, they all got fixed with time, so, I think we should all get a little patient for patches and bug fixes.

 

In any case, this, I hope, will help to convince the Dev Team to work on memory leak problem, which I beleive exists (as supported by the above comments).

I experimented in the first dungeon, and found, that game slows down permanently, when you re-enter previously vilited areas within the same location too (I do have weak PC) that are reach with special effects, such as glow with shadows, particles, etc.

Enter the room with a bridge covered by glowing symbols for the first time - it runs ok.

Leave this room (so it does dimmed), and re-enter it again - FPS drops.

Same goes for round room with glowing living rock in the middle, etc.

Quit game, restart, load save - and it runs Ok, but only until you re-enter SFX heavy room.

For my slow PC it usually takes 5-10 minutes of gameplay for FPS to drop from 20 (which is okay by me) to a slide-show of 3 FPS.

I understand, that this game is not meant to be optimized for low-end machines, but people with hi-end machines also report gradual slowdown - on some hi-end machines it takes hours, for mid-range machines it takes like 30 minutes or so (I judge from the comments in this thread).

This obviously points that the game doesnt clear all of effects from the memory, where they build up and slow things down sooner or later.

This said, I once again do not try to criticize, understanding that the game is still newborn and we should understand that it takes time to fix the issues.

With reat respect to game creators (again - the gameplay seems to be awesome!!).

[mvanblom]

 

 

 

Well, I have the GOG version, so it's not the overhead. Also, judging from other forums, my rig should be able to run the game smoothly... instead, I get less than 10 fps in crowded areas.

 

You mentioned in an earlier post using an HD4870 - is that the 512MB VRAM model? If so, it might be lack of VRAM (I've seen GPU memory usage reach 600MB at 2560x1600) - try installing MSI Afterburner to check on your usage.

 

If your system is maxing out on VRAM, check you're not forcing any graphics enhancements like AA in Catalyst Control Centre and try running the game at a lower resolution with MSAA disabled (open console with ~, press Enter, type msaa 0, press Enter again).

 

Another option might be to try overclocking your HD4870 if you're not already doing so (MSI Afterburner should be able to do that, but keep an eye on temperatures) but that won't help much if lack of VRAM is the problem.

 

Thanks. Nope, it's the 1GB version, so on-specs, so to speak. Thing is: it is handling effects pretty well so far. It just is the models that my rig has a hard time with.

 

BTW: the character creation screen is also a pain; somehow, my clicks are 'lagging' and the cursor is trailing. Not a big deal though, the crowded areas is more of a gamebreaker for me

 

I'll look into Afterburner though...

 

 

The crowded areas are taxing on the CPU, not graphics card. You can do a really simple test by pausing in a crowded area (Copperlane) and scrolling around. You'll notice performance improve dramatically despite rendering the same scene.

 

Nope... I paused around the starting camp fire, still FPS in the 7-8 range. Only zooming in helps there (goes to around 10 fps). And my CPU is only taxed for 20 percent...

 

I'll just wait for the patch

 

 

[sparklecat]

Wasteland 2 was nearly unplayable for me much of the time, but PoE has been running steady as a rock; only times I've hit any noticeable framerate issues were in a couple very busy fights with lots of spell effects flying around.

[Azureblaze]

I've seen the memory leak issue (after a long play period) but I didn't check the Pillars.exe file in the task manager to see what it got up to (will next time)

 

Restarting the game allowed it to run smoother again, like some others have said if it runs choppy even in caves or other small transition areas where it normally doesn't, try restarting the game.

 

Otherwise, my game seems pretty smooth but I do have a somewhat beefy system:

I7 3770k

GTX 780 SC

16GB DDR3

[mvanblom]

Well, just in case someone would notice something immediately off with my system, here is my DxDiag. While am still waiting for the patch due to GOG (sobs...), I have read on some boards that the patch did not help them, and there is nothing in the patch notes about my specific problem...

 

 

          Operating System: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_gdr.150202-1526)

          System Manufacturer: MICRO-STAR INTERNATIONAL CO.,LTD

       System Model: MS-7529

               BIOS: Default System BIOS

          Processor: Intel® Core2 Duo CPU     E8400  @ 3.00GHz (2 CPUs), ~3.0GHz

             Memory: 4096MB RAM

Available OS Memory: 4096MB RAM

          Page File: 2459MB used, 5728MB available

        Windows Dir: C:\Windows

    DirectX Version: DirectX 11

DX Setup Parameters: Not found

   User DPI Setting: Using System DPI

 System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)

    DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled

     DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 64bit Unicode

 

 

---------------

Display Devices

---------------

          Card name: ATI Radeon HD 4800 Series

       Manufacturer: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.

          Chip type: ATI display adapter (0x9440)

           DAC type: Internal DAC(400MHz)

         Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_9440&SUBSYS_24481682&REV_00

     Display Memory: 2811 MB

   Dedicated Memory: 1020 MB

      Shared Memory: 1791 MB

       Current Mode: 1280 x 1024 (32 bit) (75Hz)

       Monitor Name: AOC 907

      Monitor Model: 907

         Monitor Id: AOC1907

        Native Mode: 1280 x 1024(p) (60.020Hz)

        Output Type: DVI

[Sensuki]

For the record, I just upgraded from an i7 870 (2.93 GHz) to an i7 4790k (4GHz) and I still only get 60 FPS in combat :/

That's pretty poor performance.

[mvanblom]

Right now, I would almost sacrifice a puppy to get to a constant 30 fps... ;-)


EDIT: you know, even a constant 20 fps would make my day!

Edited April 4, 2015 by mvanblom

[durbal]

I honestly think it's a throttling issue.  Spell effects and lighting are sending temps through the roof. The reason you're getting better performance after restarting the game might be due to heat dissipation while the client isn't running.  After 5 mins or so I bet you'll see performance nosedive again.

 

Cast a bunch of spell effects, pause the game and wait a while, then check temps. It's like the shaders are completely overloaded due to the backgrounds and the complexity of the effects, so even during a pause they're running in overdrive constantly.  Character models just standing around has performance at normal, yet when a lot of effects are on-screen the performance gets trashed.

 

For what it's worth, my performance increased somewhat by limiting my framerate so that when a lot of effects aren't on-screen my game isn't running all-out, then when a lot of effects hit the screen I still have some room to budge until temperature throttling kicks in when temps increase.

 

There was another post on the Steam community site about how this game heats up the GPU so much even on high-end systems.  It would be very advantageous for people to check temps during the framerate drops since I'm fairly sure the performance problem is due to temperature throttling -- and if it is, Obsidian needs to find ways to tone down shader effects so they don't burn out their customers' computers.

Edited April 4, 2015 by durbal

[mindswayer]

I honestly think it's a throttling issue.  Spell effects and lighting are sending temps through the roof. The reason you're getting better performance after restarting the game might be due to heat dissipation while the client isn't running.  After 5 mins or so I bet you'll see performance nosedive again.

 

Cast a bunch of spell effects, pause the game and wait a while, then check temps. It's like the shaders are completely overloaded due to the backgrounds and the complexity of the effects, so even during a pause they're running in overdrive constantly.  Character models just standing around has performance at normal, yet when a lot of effects are on-screen the performance gets trashed.

 

For what it's worth, my performance increased somewhat by limiting my framerate so that when a lot of effects aren't on-screen my game isn't running all-out, then when a lot of effects hit the screen I still have some room to budge until temperature throttling kicks in when temps increase.

 

There was another post on the Steam community site about how this game heats up the GPU so much even on high-end systems.  It would be very advantageous for people to check temps during the framerate drops since I'm fairly sure the performance problem is due to temperature throttling -- and if it is, Obsidian needs to find ways to tone down shader effects so they don't burn out their customers' computers.

My GPU doesn't go past 50ºC.

[durbal]

Another thing: why does performance decrease so much when leveling up or creating a character?

[fabc]

Another thing: why does performance decrease so much when leveling up or creating a character?

Because the performance issues are due to the 3D models characters.

[AstralWanderer]

Right now, I would almost sacrifice a puppy to get to a constant 30 fps... ;-)

Any luck with overclocking your GPU as suggested earlier?

I honestly think it's a throttling issue...There was another post on the Steam community site about how this game heats up the GPU so much even on high-end systems...

GPU overheating is due to inadequate cooling which is the end-user's (or system builder's) responsibility. If you've installed a graphics card and then failed to check temperatures while running benchmarking software (Unigine Heaven or 3DMark2005/6's Canyon Flight being good GPU stress testers), then it's your own fault if a game causes issues later on.

 

MSI Afterburner or GPU-Z can both be used to monitor GPU temperatures and both are free. Afterburner can even provide temperature displays via an onscreen overlay or a compatible Logitech keyboard/gamepad display so you can keep an eye on them while gaming.

Another thing: why does performance decrease so much when leveling up or creating a character?

Most likely because that part of the game has seen little or no attention on performance optimization (probably because Obsidian considered other parts of the game more important). It will likely be addressed in a future update.

 

The game itself is insanely demanding for what it does - a fixed perspective RPG with a zoom facility. Beyond Divinity offered a very similar display with the ability to run at similar resolutions (I've run it at 2560x1600) plus zoom and it only specified an 800MHz Pentium III and 256MB RAM with a 64MB graphics card. Unity3D may offer far more capabilities, but even when they're not used they're clearly having a major impact on system requirements.

[durbal]

I honestly think it's a throttling issue...There was another post on the Steam community site about how this game heats up the GPU so much even on high-end systems...

GPU overheating is due to inadequate cooling which is the end-user's (or system builder's) responsibility. If you've installed a graphics card and then failed to check temperatures while running benchmarking software (Unigine Heaven or 3DMark2005/6's Canyon Flight being good GPU stress testers), then it's your own fault if a game causes issues later on.

All hardware is the end-user's responsibility.  It heats up so much because of the poor optimization though.

 

For what it's worth, I'm on a laptop so there's not a whole lot I'm able to do.  Haven't messed around with core voltages but I might.

Edited April 4, 2015 by durbal

[Justinian]

I think we can all agree the game is just incredibly, incredibly unoptimised and resource inefficient.

[AstralWanderer]

Agreed on the (lack of) optimization, but if someone has overheating problems with PoE then they're almost surely going to encounter them with other GPU-intensive games.

 

Laptops can benefit from a laptop cooler, but for the time being experimenting with the plethora of mods available for Baldur's Gate and other IE games may be more worthwhile until PoE has had a few more updates (Obsidian's last fantasy RPG, Neverwinter Nights 2, took over a year of updates to fix most of its issues).

[mindswayer]

I think we can all agree the game is just incredibly, incredibly unoptimised and resource inefficient.

You just summed up every Unity 4 game.

[Justinian]

I dunno... Cities Skylines was a Unity 4 game wasn't it? That seemed pretty well optimised to me, despite seeming far more complex and demanding.

[Kimuji]

The game has some opitmization issues indeed, it is not terrible nor critical but it's there nonetheless. I have no problem running the game at all because I have a good rig (12gigs of ram, i7-3770k etc...), but I noticed some framerate drops in Copperlane, nothing concerning mind you just going from 60 fps to 45 with V-Sync on. I monitored the CPU and GPU usage during these drops and both were below 50-60% so it means that the game engine somewhat fails to use the hardware properly. And turning off V-sync didn't prevent those drops from occuring.

 

So while it isn't a concern at all in my case I can understand that it might become a problem for people running the game on a less powerful rig.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Kimuji

[mindswayer]

I dunno... Cities Skylines was a Unity 4 game wasn't it? That seemed pretty well optimised to me, despite seeming far more complex and demanding.

Cities Skylines uses Unity 5, I think.

 

Edit: Appears to be a modified version of Unity.

What engine does Skylines use?

It uses Unity, like Cities in Motion 2 but they have rewritten and improved features.

Edited April 4, 2015 by mindswayer

[StubbinMyToe]

 

I think we can all agree the game is just incredibly, incredibly unoptimised and resource inefficient.

You just summed up every Unity 4 game.

 

 

You need to learn a thing or two about Unity and development before making such ignorant statements.