question about Conversations

[Fierhorn]

When there is a requirement to be able to say something in a conversation. Example someone with high intelligence can talk about something smart.  Can we use our companions stats and have them step in or is it only based on the main player?

[Doxy]

Main player only for conversations.

[Leferd]

Not quite. Companions can and will interject at times.

[Fierhorn]

When I play these games I really like my PC to have lots of options on what to say.  Any advice one what stats I should focus on?  the great thing is from what I understand they have tried to make it that there is no throw away stat and I cant make a omg awful build.

[Yosharian]

Not quite. Companions can and will interject at times.

But that is not the same as being able to use companions to perform skill checks.  Is this possible, or not?

[PBJam]

It's not just the stats that add choices to the conversation, its everything about your character including gender, class, and even stuff such as the Deity or Paladin background you believe in.

 

See: Pillars of Eternity: Special Dialogue Options

 

Anyway I have a question myself for those who played the game. Are there items that boost attributes and other stats like ring of Intellect+2 or ring of Lore +2, and when talking to a character, can I just switch between the two to see what dialog choices unlock?

[Voss]

 

Not quite. Companions can and will interject at times.

But that is not the same as being able to use companions to perform skill checks.  Is this possible, or not?

 

No.

But also consider, word from the devs is that stat-derived dialogue options aren't necessarily good, just different.

Disposition based choices have more long term effect.

 

 

@Fierhorn-  that was a goal, but personally, I think it is one they failed miserably at.

It is in fact quite easy to make an 'OMG awful build,' and depending on what you want to make, most stats are actually throw away.

Also, as far as leveling up goes, by far the vast majority of talents are trap choices.  And irrevocable decisions.

The system mastery learning curve is high, and pretty mandatory, imo.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Voss

[Tigrin]

When I play these games I really like my PC to have lots of options on what to say.  Any advice one what stats I should focus on?  the great thing is from what I understand they have tried to make it that there is no throw away stat and I cant make a omg awful build.

 

There's not really any one stat that's most useful for options in dialogue. A high Intellect or Perception will sometimes unlock choices in dialogue, for instance, but the stat has to be pretty high (like 18 if I remember), so think carefully before dumping points into stats just for dialogue reasons. There are never situations were you can't progress with something because you're missing a stat, it just might unlock different outcomes. It's part of what makes the game replayable I think, playing through again with different stats.

 

to answer questions, it's only ever the PC character that chooses dialogue options. Companions will sometimes make comments, but you can't use their stats to answer questions. The game is also paused during dialogue sequences so there's no chance of swapping out items just for stat boosts, either. Buttt, you might be able to back out of a dialogue, put on an item, and try again.

[Yosharian]

 

 

Not quite. Companions can and will interject at times.

But that is not the same as being able to use companions to perform skill checks.  Is this possible, or not?

 

No.

But also consider, word from the devs is that stat-derived dialogue options aren't necessarily good, just different.

Disposition based choices have more long term effect.

 

 

@Fierhorn-  that was a goal, but personally, I think it is one they failed miserably at.

It is in fact quite easy to make an 'OMG awful build,' and depending on what you want to make, most stats are actually throw away.

Also, as far as leveling up goes, by far the vast majority of talents are trap choices.  And irrevocable decisions.

The system mastery learning curve is high, and pretty mandatory, imo.

 

Thanks for the information!

[Voss]

 

to answer questions, it's only ever the PC character that chooses dialogue options. Companions will sometimes make comments, but you can't use their stats to answer questions. The game is also paused during dialogue sequences so there's no chance of swapping out items just for stat boosts, either. Buttt, you might be able to back out of a dialogue, put on an item, and try again.

 

Ah, yes.  The armor set of walking around town, talking to people.  Good idea.

This is quite seriously something you can do, just get (or enchant) an outfit with various res/int/per buffs.

[Fierhorn]

Thanks for all your answers been truly helpful.  I think I will focus onf PER,INT and RES now to find a class that will match that and take it from there.

[Yosharian]

So this leads to another question: is there any purpose to levelling Lore, Mechanics, Survival, Athletics or Stealth on NPCs, aside from their combat bonuses?

[PBJam]

So this leads to another question: is there any purpose to levelling Lore, Mechanics, Survival, Athletics or Stealth on NPCs, aside from their combat bonuses?

Mechanics helps pick locks?

[Yosharian]

 

So this leads to another question: is there any purpose to levelling Lore, Mechanics, Survival, Athletics or Stealth on NPCs, aside from their combat bonuses?

Mechanics helps pick locks?

 

Ok.  And the others?

[sparklecat]

Scripted interactions; I'm reasonably certain there are, for instance, times where it checks the Athletics of everyone in the party for something you want to attempt.

[Enoch]

Scripted interactions; I'm reasonably certain there are, for instance, times where it checks the Athletics of everyone in the party for something you want to attempt.

In the PAX East livestream, we saw a scripted interaction where the player got to choose which character attempts a difficult task.  (I think it ended up being a CON check.) 

Edited March 25, 2015 by Enoch

[Leferd]

Eric Fenstermaker (Lead Writer) on dialogue mechanics.

 

I wanted to give a couple notes on some of the choices we've made for the dialogue system here, so it's easier for everybody to distinguish between what's intended and what's not.

One choice we made is that a skill check is not necessarily a "win button" for a given encounter. This is a departure from many recent RPGs, and more in keeping with traditional pen and paper, where, sure, you can do a diplomacy check on an ogre, but he might just read that as you being soft and take it as a reason to rip your legs off. Skill checks in PoE open new paths to take in dialogue, some of them beneficial, some of them inconsequential, and some of them ineffectual. On balance they tend to help more than harm, I'd say. But we didn't want players to turn their brains off and just click the option that had a skill check associated with it, knowing it would lead to the best outcome. We want that element of the unexpected that makes the experience more engaging. To that end, we've also tried to include a number of dialogues where the "optimal" outcome is primarily related to the player paying attention to the character he or she is talking to, and choosing to treat that NPC in a way that the NPC is able to relate to on some level.

Another thing you'll see, and you'll see it all over the place in the beta, are personality reputation options. These are things like "aggressive," "benevolent," "cruel," etc. These generally do not lead to a drastically different course in a given dialogue, but over time the game keeps track of what kind of character you're roleplaying as, and there will be reactivity to it - a shady character might prefer to employ someone he knows has a reputation for deceit, for instance. Or a particularly honest player might be able to later use that reputation for honesty as a means of convincing people of his argument. (Personally I think it's cooler when we don't display that a given choice is cruel/benevolent/etc., and there is an option to hide them for a more organic experience.)

So for purposes of the beta, it's true, these personality reputation options will seem to do little to nothing. Over the course of the game, we are hoping it helps contribute to a feeling that the specific way you've chosen to roleplay your character in dialogue - not just the big decisions you've made - makes a difference to the way the world relates to you.

** minor beta spoilers**

The posters in this thread are correct that in the beta, skill checks can get you new information about the missing noble girl - the bartender, for example, can be persuaded to cough up a useful lead. (And actually two of the ways to convince him require a certain level of personality reputation, either benevolent or honest, which means they're probably not attainable in the beta.) The potion seller gives you the same lead without need of a skill check, but a skill check does enhance your understanding of what's really going on. In either case there should hopefully be a journal addendum once the currier Trygil's name comes up.

** end spoilers **

Really appreciate the feedback, btw. And if you find that you're experiencing bugs that are causing journal entries not to show up or whatever, please make sure to report them and I'll make sure they get taken care of. Thanks!

 

I'm worried this sort of takes away from the idea of character skill being important, more important than player skill even.

Totally valid concern. A few things to know about this:

- Paying close attention is important sometimes, but for a lot of our "optimal"-feeling options, a skill check will also be involved. So good for you figuring out that some character is susceptible to flattery, but if your Resolve is too low, you won't be able to flatter in a way that doesn't seem hollow.

- It's often not the kind of logic that would require a high perception - just common sense in many cases. If you take the Perception option to tell the currier that no woman would ever lay with someone who smells as bad as he does, yeah he probably won't be as forthcoming with you. So maybe you want to think twice about choosing it in the first place even though it says [Perception] in front of it. Looking for some level of thought, not necessarily brilliant levels of deduction. Anything that requires a brilliant deduction will generally be gated behind an appropriate skill check.

- I would urge any player to really roleplay his or her character. It's not something I can enforce on my end so much as encourage, but I would want players to choose options based on how they think and what they would say. There are a number of other systems choices we've made here (personality rep and background come to mind, as well as our companion interactions) to try to help the player to develop a character over the course of the story rather than to just play some empty, static avatar. Hopefully it gives a little more meaning to the overall experience.

- I have to be careful with my use of "optimal" in reference to quest outcomes. What I generally mean is an outcome that avoids conflict, not necessarily the outcome with the most favorable end result. The idea being, if you're going to skip a fight, we want it to feel like it's a reward for both player and character ingenuity. Otherwise you've just missed out on gameplay. (Which I'll grant you some people prefer.)

All that said, if you find that some interaction really forces you to metagame to get the option you want, and requires you to act out-of-character, that's a serious narrative issue, so go ahead and report that as a bug.

[Gs11]

I have question: does specific attributies have influence on precise dispositions? e.g what stats increase cruel dispostions? is there specifil list, which explains relations between dispostions and attributies?

[FlintlockJazz]

I have question: does specific attributies have influence on precise dispositions? e.g what stats increase cruel dispostions? is there specifil list, which explains relations between dispostions and attributies?

No.  It is the dialogue choices that you make that affect the disposition, an attribute might unlock an option that affects a disposition but there won't be any links between attributes and dispositions.

[Gs11]

 

I have question: does specific attributies have influence on precise dispositions? e.g what stats increase cruel dispostions? is there specifil list, which explains relations between dispostions and attributies?

No.  It is the dialogue choices that you make that affect the disposition, an attribute might unlock an option that affects a disposition but there won't be any links between attributes and dispositions.

 

ok so another way:

for example game desc says about attribute int that affects situation like deduction problem solving,which is similiar to disposition like "rational",so I suppose that higher int stat  higher chance of unlocking rational disosition in conversations and that's my question: what specific attributies have influence on precise dispositions as like  as int on rational disposition

[Oralaina]

 

Scripted interactions; I'm reasonably certain there are, for instance, times where it checks the Athletics of everyone in the party for something you want to attempt.

In the PAX East livestream, we saw a scripted interaction where the player got to choose which character attempts a difficult task.  (I think it ended up being a CON check.)

 

 

There's at least one of those in the game:

when you're going after the dragon egg, you get to choose who tries the climb.

  There may be others, not in game, and had a very long day today so really can't bring them to mind tonight.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Oralaina

[FlintlockJazz]

 

 

I have question: does specific attributies have influence on precise dispositions? e.g what stats increase cruel dispostions? is there specifil list, which explains relations between dispostions and attributies?

No.  It is the dialogue choices that you make that affect the disposition, an attribute might unlock an option that affects a disposition but there won't be any links between attributes and dispositions.

 

ok so another way:

for example game desc says about attribute int that affects situation like deduction problem solving,which is similiar to disposition like "rational",so I suppose that higher int stat  higher chance of unlocking rational disosition in conversations and that's my question: what specific attributies have influence on precise dispositions as like  as int on rational disposition

 

None.  Vast majority are available regardless of stats.  Higher int will have no more likelihood of unlocking a conversation choice for rational than any other.  There is zero point to pick an attribute based on dispositions, as it won't make any difference.

[Gs11]

an attribute might unlock an option that affects a disposition

does it mean the same? ;p I'll have higher chance to unlock  an option which influences on specific dispositions

 

or You just wanne say, that attributes could unlock an option, but this option gonne be random so attributes have impact  on random option and otpion have impact on random dispositions. sorry but can't pretty undestand  Your opinion

Edited September 22, 2015 by Gs11

[wanderon]

It means that attributtes can influence the number of options you see but it does not necessarily mean it will be the specific option you are looking for - the higher number of options may well be fairly random determined by the mood the writer was in when he created them. There is no rule that X attributte is tied to Y disposition (that I am aware of)