Godlike pointless?

[Judicator]

Obviously playing a godlike character will have some kind of effect on the story and how NPCs react to you, but from a pure gameplay perspective they seem rather weak. They loose the ability to use helmets just for some racial ability which isn't much better than the abilities the other races get, and they only get +1 to dex and res. It would make some kind of sense if they get that + whatever stat bonuses their parent race gets, but instead it replaces them. This means a godlike dwarf would actually be weaker than a regular one, and that makes them feel very un-godlike to me.

 

I'm not the only one who feels they're gimped, right?

[Zansatsu]

Their racials are pretty good and remember there is no armor value on helmets. I imagine the enchants available for helmets will even out for the most part if you pick the racial that matches a playstyle your going for.

[Tamerlane]

I've been lukewarm on godlike for a while, but apparently the death godlike power just got a buff so it triggers at 25% instead of 15%. So that's a nice thing at least. They're not unplayable or anything, but I'm probably gonna wait for a couple of patches before I play a godlike PC just in case things change.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Tamerlane

[Shdy314]

Gimped is a strong word. Is giving up helmets too harsh by end game? Probably. Their racials aren't any worse than most others (except for Nature) though that is mostly because most racials are pretty meh. But playing one isn't going to stop you from finishing PotD or make you tear your hair our. Also the female models for godlike are truly outstanding in my opinion. That female fire godlike is just wow.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Shdy314

[Scottfree6000]

the nature godlike's racial's a bit underwhelming among the other godlikes. the whole no helmet is a good trade off for "actual godlike powers" but with the nature godlike I feel like i would missing out on good helmets that give better passive bonuses. 

[Tamerlane]

Looks like it's not just the death godlike that's getting a bit of a buff.

 

I've tuned up the godlike racial abilities (except for moon godlike -- that's down) and a few other racial abilities that felt lackluster.

Dunno how substantial any of it will be, but... eh.

[Azmodiuz]

The moon godlike was the only useful one. Other then how ugly it looks or makes me feel when using it, if it didn't have an actually useful ability we'd never use it!

but all the god-likes are a bit lackluster. These guys are more then just marginally different, yet they are 99.9999% the same in any given situation in everyday life. There should be different things to them other then those racial abilities. They should be the only race that gets something else... like maybe BOTH racials.... parent type and their god-like racials.

Then you can keep the helmet, and the stupid abilities they have. There's so many abilities in this game I find completely waste of scripting time. Most of the racials are exactly that to me.

[Kjaamor]

This is based around the assumption that there shall be multiple high-quality helmets in the game.

 

Off the top of my head, BG1 had three enchanted helmets, one of which was the Helm of Infravision.

[gkathellar]

Their racials are pretty good and remember there is no armor value on helmets. I imagine the enchants available for helmets will even out for the most part if you pick the racial that matches a playstyle your going for.

 

Emphasis mine.

 

No. Their racials fall somewhere between "godawful" (Death, Nature), "useful for like one monk build" (Fire), and "okay I guess but I still kinda wish I'd played a Hearth Orlan" (Moon). Not only do you miss out on helms, you miss out on getting a decent racial ability.

 

 

The moon godlike was the only useful one. Other then how ugly it looks or makes me feel when using it, if it didn't have an actually useful ability we'd never use it!

 

Don't give Moon Godlike too much credit. In my experience, that Endurance heal isn't nearly as good as it looks on paper.

[Judicator]

What I don't get is why they all get the same stat bonuses. You'd think that a godlike associated with a nature god would get different bonuses from one associated with a war diety. And I still think they should get their parent race's stat bonuses on top of that. It would have balanced out things nicely with the lack of helmets.

[Cluas]

I like the moon-godlike...

[Luckmann]

What I don't get is why they all get the same stat bonuses. You'd think that a godlike associated with a nature god would get different bonuses from one associated with a war diety. And I still think they should get their parent race's stat bonuses on top of that. It would have balanced out things nicely with the lack of helmets.

 

In one of the threads I mentioned some ideas regarding rebalancing Godlikes, and I completely agree with this. They should get a +1 that all Godlikes get, +1 based on their parent race, and +1 based on what kind of Godlike they are.

 

I don't think any racial power alone will be able to make up for lost Attributes.

[Judicator]

 

What I don't get is why they all get the same stat bonuses. You'd think that a godlike associated with a nature god would get different bonuses from one associated with a war diety. And I still think they should get their parent race's stat bonuses on top of that. It would have balanced out things nicely with the lack of helmets.

 

In one of the threads I mentioned some ideas regarding rebalancing Godlikes, and I completely agree with this. They should get a +1 that all Godlikes get, +1 based on their parent race, and +1 based on what kind of Godlike they are.

 

I don't think any racial power alone will be able to make up for lost Attributes.

 

Indeed. As it stands a human, aumaua, or dwarf are going to outperform Death and Fire godlike, which makes zero sense to me as these guys are supposed to be touched by death and war gods, yet the common races are better dealing damage then they are.

[Odd Hermit]

That they felt the need to nerf Moon Godlike is concerning.

 

Aumaua / Orlan racials will probably still be the strongest on release I guess.

[gkathellar]

What I don't get is why they all get the same stat bonuses. You'd think that a godlike associated with a nature god would get different bonuses from one associated with a war diety. And I still think they should get their parent race's stat bonuses on top of that. It would have balanced out things nicely with the lack of helmets.

 

I would think that, yes. :\

 

I like the moon-godlike...

 

Me too! I wish they were better.

[Luckmann]

That they felt the need to nerf Moon Godlike is concerning.

 

Aumaua / Orlan racials will probably still be the strongest on release I guess.

 

The Moonlike actually had a racial on-par with what a Godlike should have. This was clearly an exploit. This has since been fixed. Hail Sawyer!

 

 

 

[Endrosz]

Pointless, just because some number is too small or a mechanic not relevant enough? That's a very narrow view of rating such a complex part of a RPG as a race.

 

The game is totally playable even without racial traits present. Godlike have unique lore, unique looks, unique portraits (and some of those really cool!) and probably some reactivity in the world. So what if their racial traits suck? Try to enjoy the remaining 99.98% of the game, mate. Or -- gasp! -- try to play a race/culture/class for reasons other than a bonus to something. You might find it fun.

 

It seems that people are misled by the label "godlike", expecting superhumans. The label implies that they have the "imprint" of a certain god in their existence, most visible in their looks, not that they are superhuman. That's a subtle change from DnD 3ed planetouched, who are superhuman, and have an appropriate level adjustment (ECL +1 for tiefling and aasimar) for those bonuses.

[Judicator]

In my OP I make it clear that I am talking about the godlike from a purely mechanical perspective. As they are right now they just don't feel very godlike to me.

[Luckmann]

Pointless, just because some number is too small or a mechanic not relevant enough? That's a very narrow view of rating such a complex part of a RPG as a race.

 

The game is totally playable even without racial traits present. Godlike have unique lore, unique looks, unique portraits (and some of those really cool!) and probably some reactivity in the world. So what if their racial traits suck? Try to enjoy the remaining 99.98% of the game, mate. Or -- gasp! -- try to play a race/culture/class for reasons other than a bonus to something. You might find it fun.

 

It seems that people are misled by the label "godlike", expecting superhumans. The label implies that they have the "imprint" of a certain god in their existence, most visible in their looks, not that they are superhuman. That's a subtle change from DnD 3ed planetouched, who are superhuman, and have an appropriate level adjustment (ECL +1 for tiefling and aasimar) for those bonuses.

 

Augh, another "the game works so therefore it doesn't need balancing" strawman.

 

The issue is that Godlikes cannot wear helmets, and therefore are supposed - explicitly - to have more powerful racial modifiers or powers.

 

But currently they do not. This has nothing to do with being misled by "the label" or expecting superhumans, and it's incredibly condescending to even suggest that people would be discussing these issues if it was true.

 

It is no stranger than expecting Orlans to get a bonus if they could not use boots, especially if they were explicitly stated to be better because of that.

 

Godlikes are thematically meant to be a step above their parent race, so thematically, it makes perfect sense that their racials would be more powerful, or that they'd receive higher bonuses, and this is excused by restricting their use of headgear (completely). That's the entire thing.

 

And you'd know that if you would've taken the time to get into the issue, instead of condescendingly mouthing off against a strawman of your own making. Thematically, Godlikes are definitely planetouched, and mechanically, instead of +1 ECL, they lose the benefit of a helmet. Except, of course, they currently do not actually get any mechanical benefit for being "planetouched", which would excuse that +1 ECL (or in this case, headgear).

 

In fact, many of the Godlikes have racials that are very clearly less powerful than compared to many "vanilla" races.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Luckmann

[gkathellar]

Pointless, just because some number is too small or a mechanic not relevant enough? That's a very narrow view of rating such a complex part of a RPG as a race.

 

They are supposed to be a race that is stronger than normal, but are unable to wear hats as a drawback. They fail to deliver on this.

 

Their lore is fine, but that's not what's being discussed.

[Odd Hermit]

Honestly, I don't understand why they're okay with Island Aumaua getting the equivalent of a fairly strong talent(Arms Bearer) and yet they're being so restrained with most other racials.

 

Coastal Aumaua is also pretty close to equaling a talent with +20 Prone/Stun resist being about the same or even greater value as Unstoppable/Body Control(Prone/Stun are common and more threatening than most of the others).

 

Most others, excluding Orlan and I guess Wood Elf have their niche, are also not only weak but vary between fairly and extremely situational.

 

Edit: And I'd prefer other racials being brought up to par, not having Aumaua and Orlan nerfed.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Odd Hermit

[Luckmann]

Honestly, I don't understand why they're okay with Island Aumaua getting the equivalent of a fairly strong talent(Arms Bearer) and yet they're being so restrained with most other racials.

 

Coastal Aumaua is also pretty close to equaling a talent with +20 Prone/Stun resist being about the same or even greater value as Unstoppable/Body Control(Prone/Stun are common and more threatening than most of the others).

 

Most others, excluding Orlan and I guess Wood Elf have their niche, are also not only weak but vary between fairly and extremely situational.

 

Edit: And I'd prefer other racials being brought up to par, not having Aumaua and Orlan nerfed.

 

First, allow me to emphasize the last part of your post, because goddamn, stop the insane actions of restricting things into uselessness. Expand upon functionality and choices instead of beating game mechanics into submission to "fix" "issues" that are figments of a deranged imagination at best.

 

Second, I think that the restraint comes in part, at least when it comes to the Godlikes, because it's been said expressly that they are supposed to have more powerful racials than others. This makes them inclined to give them something nice, and then restrict it over and over again, looking it over, overanalysing, and ultimately nerf it into submission out of fear that if they don't, it'll be too powerful.

 

I get the feeling that this process of overanalysation and added restriction has been symptomatic of much of development, restricting gameplay and options based on non-existent issues and baseless fears regarding balance or perceived exploits.

[budyn]

everyone saying nature godlike is bad, how come. Isnt he a pretty good tanking char? after you get down on hp, your damage is boosted, your endurance is boosted, your atack speed, recovery speed is boosted? If i would be doing barb i would surelly consider nature godlike as much as amaua

[Luckmann]

everyone saying nature godlike is bad, how come. Isnt he a pretty good tanking char? after you get down on hp, your damage is boosted, your endurance is boosted, your atack speed, recovery speed is boosted? If i would be doing barb i would surelly consider nature godlike as much as amaua

 

It's bad because it revolves around something that shouldn't happen and for the most time isn't happening. It might arguably be good when it happens, but if that never really happens, and it shouldn't unless you're doing something wrong, it's a pretty **** power.

[budyn]

 

everyone saying nature godlike is bad, how come. Isnt he a pretty good tanking char? after you get down on hp, your damage is boosted, your endurance is boosted, your atack speed, recovery speed is boosted? If i would be doing barb i would surelly consider nature godlike as much as amaua

 

It's bad because it revolves around something that shouldn't happen and for the most time isn't happening. It might arguably be good when it happens, but if that never really happens, and it shouldn't unless you're doing something wrong, it's a pretty **** power.

 

so you want to tell me that this game is so easy that you will not get under 50% hp to much? I can bet my left ball that in later stages in the game on normal difficulty your monk will be under 50% atleast 3 times per 2 fights.

Not mentioning the fact that iam going into potd toi.