Armed Monk?

[Greensleeve]

I was hoping I could get some suggestions from the people who've had backer beta access. 

 

I really like the concept of the monk class, and it's mechanics look solid and interesting. I've been toying quite a bit with the idea of playing as a monk on my first playthrough, but I really don't wanna use my fists. Similarly, I'd ideally play the monk as damage 1st, but without abandoning some sturdiness. Is this a good idea? Or would I be losing out by using something like a greatsword instead of my fists?

 

Is such a sturdy damage-dealer build doable with an armed monk? Or would I be better of playing something like a fighter for the sturdy damage-dealer role? 

 

Also, intend to play on normal difficulty, at least to begin with. 

[Luckmann]

You will absolutely not want to use your fists as your primary weapon, since you can't enchant your fists. So you're golden.

[Giantevilhead]

I would assume there will be magical gloves that give bonuses to unarmed attacks.

[Luckmann]

I would assume there will be magical gloves that give bonuses to unarmed attacks.

 

Unless I'm mistakenly informed, you would assume wrong.

[Tamerlane]

Monks not using enchanted hand wraps, brass knuckles, etc. is just in keeping with the tradition of God's chosen tabletop game.

[Lephys]

It's always a sad day when unarmed attacks are discriminated against in a video game. Because swinging a sword and using your fist are just the same thing minus a sword, right?

 

I realize resource/timeframe limitations. But, still... ESPECIALLY for a monk-type class. Lacking any kind of focus on purely unarmed-style attacks, at the very least, is a hugely missed opportunity.

 

My XCOM-style medieval fantasy game that I one day (in the distant, distant future) make will have awesome pugilists, and they will pugilize to the fullest extent of their power. With gloves, and knuckles, cestas, and probably infeasible weapons that haven't even been invented yet, u_u...

[Luckmann]

Monks not using enchanted hand wraps, brass knuckles, etc. is just in keeping with the tradition of God's chosen tabletop game.

I was honestly shocked when I tried to theorycraft a half-orc pugilist together using Pathfinder. The idea was that I wanted to fight like a monk using gauntlets while dressed in armour. Not necessarily using the base Monk class, mind you, but still.

 

I could not find a way to do that. Like. At all.

 

It felt weird as hell, because I knew that 3.5 had this odd discrepancy between Unarmed and Armed and Natural Weapons and I thought that'd be a thing Pathfinder would fix. But nope, still the same deal.

 

All of my whats in the world.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Luckmann

[Striped_Wolf]

Nice. I felt a little gimped using Greywolfs Frostbrand as a monk in BG. But it felt cool (pun) so I kept doing it.

[budyn]

Hello, what bout monk that uses 2h staff? Its kinda monk fighting style aswell.

And from the other bowl, what about monk who can open with banderbus, are there any skills that make this viable? Cause iam rly thinking of it.( tho i plan on going hard potd iron  thats why asking )

[portedgoblin]

For RP reasons I will play a DPS unarmed monk, like many people I have a goto class for these types of games and monks are mine.

In BB beta I am doing Turning Wheel, Scion of Flame, Swift Strikes, high dex and armor without recovery penalties. I haven't played very much yet, specially with other characters and builds, but so far he seems pretty bad ass. Attack speed is very fast.

Anyway, it feels REALLY nice. So if an armed monk is better that should certainly work well.

[W.MacKinnon]

 

Monks not using enchanted hand wraps, brass knuckles, etc. is just in keeping with the tradition of God's chosen tabletop game.

I was honestly shocked when I tried to theorycraft a half-orc pugilist together using Pathfinder. The idea was that I wanted to fight like a monk using gauntlets while dressed in armour. Not necessarily using the base Monk class, mind you, but still.

 

I could not find a way to do that. Like. At all.

 

It felt weird as hell, because I knew that 3.5 had this odd discrepancy between Unarmed and Armed and Natural Weapons and I thought that'd be a thing Pathfinder would fix. But nope, still the same deal.

 

All of my whats in the world.

 

You haven't seen the new brawler hybrid class. Using the pummeling style+pummeling charge feats in pathfinder as written; allows a character to lump all attacks(pounce) together on a charge, then if any critical they all do. Playing a character that punches is one of the most powerful builds in pathfinder.

Same combo also works like the clustered shot feat on morphine, so all the attacks count as one for DR.

Edited March 21, 2015 by W.MacKinnon

[Tamerlane]

Pummeling style was a huge buff for all unarmed fighters. There are some really strong natural attack builds that get pretty gross using it.

[Polanski]

 XCOM-style medieval fantasy game 

sounds like an awesome game.

 

With all the turn-based love floating around with the designers at obsidian, maybe we will one day see something similar in the PoE setting. 

[.Leif.]

I can't help but think about making a Gun-Monk and pretending he or she jumps around and shoots like the Grammaton Clerics in Tranquility. Pew Pew Pew. At least there aren't dual-wielding pistols (I think.)

When it comes to melee weapons I think my choice would have to depend on what is available. I'd give my monk a katana if they were included but otherwise it'll likely end up being some polearm or maybe the classic staff.

[gkathellar]

Weapon-and-shield monk in heavy armor is best monk.

 

Pummeling style was a huge buff for all unarmed fighters. There are some really strong natural attack builds that get pretty gross using it.

 

Almost as gross as a spellcaster!

Edited March 24, 2015 by gkathellar

[Luckmann]

Weapon-and-shield monk in heavy armor is best monk.

Which is just another one of those really odd, counter-intuitive things in PoE. Monk with a (non-fist) weapon? Monk with a shield? Monk with... heavy armour?

[Heijoushin]

 

Weapon-and-shield monk in heavy armor is best monk.

Which is just another one of those really odd, counter-intuitive things in PoE. Monk with a (non-fist) weapon? Monk with a shield? Monk with... heavy armour?

 

 

It's weird but... I kind of prefer it this way. Part of the fun of RPGs is finding new weapons and equipment. If you have a class that uses absolutely nothing, it's kind of boring.

 

EDIT:

Does the monk still generate enough wounds with heavy armour? I've seen some comments where people say you should keep the armour lighter to maximise wounds but I assume that even with heavy armour, you still take a reasonable amount of damage on the front lines (the enemies can't be that weak...)

Edited March 24, 2015 by Heijoushin

[Quetzalcoatl]

 

Weapon-and-shield monk in heavy armor is best monk.

Which is just another one of those really odd, counter-intuitive things in PoE. Monk with a (non-fist) weapon? Monk with a shield? Monk with... heavy armour?

The developers are obviously to blame for your lack of imagination.

[Luckmann]

 

 

Weapon-and-shield monk in heavy armor is best monk.

Which is just another one of those really odd, counter-intuitive things in PoE. Monk with a (non-fist) weapon? Monk with a shield? Monk with... heavy armour?

 

 

It's weird but... I kind of prefer it this way. Part of the fun of RPGs is finding new weapons and equipment. If you have a class that uses absolutely nothing, it's kind of boring.

 

Edit: Does the monk still generate enough wounds with heavy armour? I've seen some comments where people say you should keep the armour lighter to maximise wounds but I assume that even with heavy armour, you still take a reasonable amount of damage on the front lines (the enemies can't be that weak...)

 

 

Oh, I'm not saying that it's necessarily bad - I really like the open-ended approach that they have taken and many of the things that appears to have been ideals throughout development, such as all Attributes being usable by all classes, the lack of weapon restrictions, an armour sharing an overall system rather than being just X, Y or Z depending on class alone. Whether they hit the mark or not is extremely debatable, and there are certainly some very glaring issues, but the goal itself as it seems; amazing.

 

The issue that I have is that as it stands, it's just that while it's cool that you can do these things, it's unintuitive that you'd be so clearly worse off if you do what you'd traditionally do. Hyperintelligent Barbarians, for example; I think it's great that you can make a really good intelligent Barbarian, that's actually really cool. But the fact that it outweighs many other builds that would be more intuitive so clearly, is definitely an issue.

 

Like a Paladin that takes Resolve, which is thematically a mix between what would usually be referred to as Willpower and/or Charisma; a complete trap choice, unless you're specifically building for a tank. Or a monk that thinks, hey, I want to be that traditional punchy monk, and you just can't do that and still perform on the level on which an armed monk would, and if you build for a tanky monk, you will still want to have heavy armour, which is no doubt jarring for those that would expect the monk to capitalize on other defensive modifiers like deflection, dodging and mobility (of which only deflection is a defensive stat, and mobility is actively discouraged). Or a traditional wizard; Might? Yes, Might isn't exactly "Strength", but a lot of things in the game is suggestive of the fact that it has to do with physical stature, whether that was the actual intent or not, so you choose to focus on Perception, it feels wizard-y enough, but which is utter and complete garbage for the low-health clothy backliner that's slinging spells.

 

Is it the end-all, be-all of the system? No, of course not. I appreciate the ideals and goals that have seemingly gone into the system, and lament the fact that while the pieces are there, the shot falls short of the mark by a fair degree.

 

As for your question, it depends on how you build the Monk. If you want to tank, you'll still want the Heavy Armour and you'll still be hit more than enough, especially when there's more enemies, but if you're not a tank, you definitely shouldn't stick to Heavy Armour, you want to feel the pain or you'll have problems generating Wounds. It shouldn't be a major issue.

 

 

The developers are obviously to blame for your lack of imagination.

I think that every single post I've seen from you have been a strawman. Are you ever productive, or just tiresome?

Edited March 24, 2015 by Luckmann

[gkathellar]

 

Weapon-and-shield monk in heavy armor is best monk.

Which is just another one of those really odd, counter-intuitive things in PoE. Monk with a (non-fist) weapon? Monk with a shield? Monk with... heavy armour?

 

 

While clearly not the intention, my headcanon is that they're actually sort of like Yamabushi warrior monks. Hell if they fought unarmed or unarmored.

 

Does the monk still generate enough wounds with heavy armour? I've seen some comments where people say you should keep the armour lighter to maximise wounds but I assume that even with heavy armour, you still take a reasonable amount of damage on the front lines (the enemies can't be that weak...)

 

 

Monk generates exactly enough wounds with heavy armor (also it's possible to be much less wound-dependent than advertised, depending on how you build your monk).

Edited March 24, 2015 by gkathellar

[salo]

 

The developers are obviously to blame for your lack of imagination.

I think that every single post I've seen from you have been a strawman. Are you ever productive, or just tiresome?

 

 

The knights templar were a highly armoured monastic order, it's not like you even need an imagination, they actually existed!

[maledwarfwarrior]

I'm planning for my first character to be a solo Monk wielding duel stilettos and a pistol, and have enchanted clothes. Kite the enemy with Gun-Fu, and if they get into melee range switch to stilettos and cc them. Make excessive use of traps and stealth, craft up my gear heavily, and interrupt lock with rapid attacks/high perception. If that doesn't work, add more Gun-Fu via hirelings. Monks get large boosts to attack speed, movement speed, and the ability to reflect half of single target ranged attacks back at the attacker. It is almost as if they wanted them to be melee/Gun-Fu hybrids.

[Heijoushin]

I'm planning for my first character to be a solo Monk wielding duel stilettos and a pistol, and have enchanted clothes. Kite the enemy with Gun-Fu, and if they get into melee range switch to stilettos and cc them. Make excessive use of traps and stealth, craft up my gear heavily, and interrupt lock with rapid attacks/high perception. If that doesn't work, add more Gun-Fu via hirelings. Monks get large boosts to attack speed, movement speed, and the ability to reflect half of single target ranged attacks back at the attacker. It is almost as if they wanted them to be melee/Gun-Fu hybrids.

 

I also wanted to play a fast kind of monk at first. But they need wounds for all their cool abilities (like the attack speed) right? So if you do all that kiting, will you get hit? And if you're just wearing enchanted clothes, will you survive? All of a sudden, I'm starting to dislike this "need to get hit to use abilities" thing. It seems to favour a more tank-ish character.

 

I might just go for a rogue in the end...

[Gwynbleidd]

 

Weapon-and-shield monk in heavy armor is best monk.

Which is just another one of those really odd, counter-intuitive things in PoE. Monk with a (non-fist) weapon? Monk with a shield? Monk with... heavy armour?

 

The RPG Monk was primaly based on the buddhist shaolin monks, so that's why we commonly portray them as warriors who fight barehanded and unprotected. The mere thought of monks employing weapons and heavy armor may sound alien, buy like salo already said, there is also a few monastic orders of armed monks in our history, like the Knights Templar, the Teutonic knight monks and the Sohei warriors of feudal Japan. I love the fact that the monk description in PoE embraces multiple creative origins other then "kung fu wacko".

 

Geralt from the Witcher series is a good example of fiction armed monk that could very well fit into the world of PoE.

 

 

 

Witchers are an elite caste of warrior-monks taken at a young age to an ancient fortress and experimented on to give them superhuman abilities. Those who survive the rigorous trials are extensively trained in a multitude of skills in preparation for defending Humans from beasts.

 

Geralt is a master of swordmanship, but he's also known as being extremely skilled in hand-to-hand combat, so that was probably part of his Witcher training. His fighting style transcends mere physical combat, and moves into the more intellectual domain that the Monks tend to dwell in. It's said in the books that he flows through his moves, almost as though he’s dancing.  It’s a power that speaks of mastery of his art, as well as mastery of his own body.

 

TDLR Witchers could very well be armed monks in PoE. The only aspect that the Monk class doesn't cover is the minor spellcasting, but witchers should rely mostly on their weapons anyway so it's not a big deal.