FootDive Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 Are melee wizards going to be fun in this game? Looking at their spells and base stats, it just doesn't seem like they're going to be much fun. Spell durations are too short, several long term spells can't be cast outside of combat for preparation, accuracy is too low, health/endurance is too low, deflection is too low, Arcane Veil being underpowered as a per rest ability and their most powerful spell, Citzal's Martial Might, can only be used as a sixth level spell which can only be acquired extremely late in the game. Has anyone had much luck with melee wizards in the latest beta? I don't want to have to make a Cipher instead as I prefer a melee wizard for roleplaying reasons.
Arctic Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) If defensive spells could be cast out of combat or Arcane Veil per encounter ... (moding time xD)Still, its not optimal, but you can play it if you want, justs build your char around it and have fun (melee cyphers are not optimal either) Edited March 18, 2015 by Arctic
Tamerlane Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 There was mention of a pass to make melee wizards more viable, particularly at low levels, but as of build 480, no.
aeonsim Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) They might be ok, your'd want to get the talents Arcane Veil (emergency Def) and Grimore Slam (Melee damage, engagement breaking and knockback) and probably focus on the Touch, cone and buff spells. You can also add a line of talents that makes buffs cast faster. In general buff spells are nearly instant cast so you can cast a couple on your self before the enemy even reaches you. If you equip your self the same as a Fighter then cast Spirit Shield (additional DR) & Eldritch aim (+30ACC) you should do fairly well at the earlier levels. Other useful spells would be the Summoned Staff (vampiric reach weapon), corrosive siphon (short range vampiric AoE), Merciless Gaze (more Crits stacks well with Eldritch Aim), Mirrored Image, Combusting Wounds, Infuse with Vital essence (+50 endurance) and the haste spell. They won't be as good as an AoE/CC wizard but could still be fairly effective, though they definitely won't make a good tanks. Edited March 18, 2015 by aeonsim
mrmonocle Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 if u ask me, a melee wizard is definitely an option. 1 I see the dreams so marvelously sad The creeks of land so solid and encrusted Where wave and tide against the shore is busted While chanting by the moonlit twilight's bed trees (of Twin Elms) could use more of Magran's touch © Durance
Stilpon Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 I agree- maybe not a front liner, but someone who's not afraid to hold his own in the fray
Mr. Magniloquent Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Wizards are very poor at melee for the reasons you have mentioned. Do not believe Ciphers to be more durable though, they are actually even more vulnerable. Ciphers work best at the flank harrying and disrupting enemies focused elsewhere.
Striped_Wolf Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Roll a Melee class for the bodytype and talents, and go heavy into Lore in order to use powerful scrolls. 1
Odd Hermit Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Roll a Melee class for the bodytype and talents, and go heavy into Lore in order to use powerful scrolls. This is the best melee wizard you'll get. Wizards drop like a stone in the beta. They're the class that has most consistently been KOed, and the only class I've had actually die. They are made of paper. Melee is a bad place for them. The fights are practically over before a Wizard has time to buff himself into something of a wannabe fighter and then those buffs run out and you've wasted several spells / rest contributing very little.
gkathellar Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 if u ask me, a melee wizard is definitely an option. It's definitely an option, in the same way that cutting off one's own feet and hopping around on the stumps is definitely an option: it's probably possible to get by in life after the fact, but you're going to discover that you've made life difficult for yourself. 1 If I'm typing in red, it means I'm being sarcastic. But not this time. Dark green, on the other hand, is for jokes and irony in general.
Tartantyco Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Having run a couple of them now, I'd say that on Normal, they're quite good. On Hard it's... hard. Still doable. The main issue is that they need to cast too many protective spells before they can start dealing damage, and they keep taking damage during that time. This means they usually lose far more health, meaning you have to rest more frequently than if you have a tanky fighter on the front. You also burn through per rest abilities far quicker, as well. Despite this, my melee wizards are the biggest damage dealers in those parties due to more frequent touch and cone spell usage. Even with stats and talents that reduce attack speed. Arcane veil should probably be per encounter, and protective spells should be a bit more powerful(I didn't check casting time, maybe a reduction there if some of them are slow). Armor is a little bit messed up in implementation right now, so any changes to that might improve them, as well. "You're a fool if you believe I would trust your benevolence. Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt." Baldur's Gate portraits for Pillars of Eternity IXI Icewind Dale portraits for Pillars of Eternity IXI Icewind Dale 2 portraits for Pillars of Eternity [slap Aloth]
Odd Hermit Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Having run a couple of them now, I'd say that on Normal, they're quite good. On Hard it's... hard. Still doable. The main issue is that they need to cast too many protective spells before they can start dealing damage, and they keep taking damage during that time. This means they usually lose far more health, meaning you have to rest more frequently than if you have a tanky fighter on the front. You also burn through per rest abilities far quicker, as well. Despite this, my melee wizards are the biggest damage dealers in those parties due to more frequent touch and cone spell usage. Even with stats and talents that reduce attack speed. Arcane veil should probably be per encounter, and protective spells should be a bit more powerful(I didn't check casting time, maybe a reduction there if some of them are slow). Armor is a little bit messed up in implementation right now, so any changes to that might improve them, as well. You must not be taking druids. Personally I think they need a few strong passive talents specific to improving their durability in a way that isn't just a hopelessly small/insignificant amount of deflection for a class with a base of only 10. The more deflection you have the more valuable it becomes, so you'd need a lot of deflection to bother with arcane veil and wizard's don't have it. Then their combat buffs need to be more "bang for the buck" and/or some need to be per-encounter. Can't afford to cast that many spells/rest just to go gish mode to be able to contribute in smaller battles where a ranged build could just cast a single slicken and then wand things with blast.
Eldram Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 I am having tons of fun with the cipher class, you definetly have to watch your placement but running in with a giant 2 hander to lay the smack down while building your spell pool is an awesome playstyle. Also once you reach higher levels you get spells that buff you dt and defences substantially all while weakening your enemies. Not casting spells constantly also allows for a bit more armor, I'm running with medium now and as long as a tank character has the enemies focus the slow down seems worth the extra defence.
Tartantyco Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 You must not be taking druids. The Druid is getting nerfed, so I didn't use it in any of my parties. "You're a fool if you believe I would trust your benevolence. Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt." Baldur's Gate portraits for Pillars of Eternity IXI Icewind Dale portraits for Pillars of Eternity IXI Icewind Dale 2 portraits for Pillars of Eternity [slap Aloth]
Odd Hermit Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 You must not be taking druids. The Druid is getting nerfed, so I didn't use it in any of my parties. Yeah I've noticed all my non-druid taking parties are substantially more difficult or at least they take longer to kill everything. Do you have a source? Do we know how they're getting nerfed/what's getting nerfed? I'm curious. I am having tons of fun with the cipher class, you definetly have to watch your placement but running in with a giant 2 hander to lay the smack down while building your spell pool is an awesome playstyle. Also once you reach higher levels you get spells that buff you dt and defences substantially all while weakening your enemies. Not casting spells constantly also allows for a bit more armor, I'm running with medium now and as long as a tank character has the enemies focus the slow down seems worth the extra defence. Cipher is my favorite non-overpowered as hell(Druid) class as well. However I feel like it's much better @ range than as a melee class. Paladin Tank, Pike/GS Fighter are my go-to for melee. I really can't find great reason to use much else over them, seems like everything else is better off with a gun at a safe distance. Monks are ~okay~ but I feel they have a core-conflict in that to take substantial damage to generate wounds you need to be somewhat tanky and it's hard to find a balance between extremely tanky and good damage output right now.
Tartantyco Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Sensuki posted some of Sawyer's SA forum comments on the RPGCodex. (Sawyer is ropekid) "You're a fool if you believe I would trust your benevolence. Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt." Baldur's Gate portraits for Pillars of Eternity IXI Icewind Dale portraits for Pillars of Eternity IXI Icewind Dale 2 portraits for Pillars of Eternity [slap Aloth]
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