Journalism and bias in the gaming industry.

[Volourn]

Internalized misogny,

[Meshugger]

IGDA is promoting self-censorship as "culturalization"

 

https://media.8ch.net/gamergate/src/1426023914268-0.pdf

https://media.8ch.net/gamergate/src/1426023914268-1.pdf

 

No wonder they thought that the gg_autoblocker was a good idea, it's just an extension of their line of thought.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

IGDA is promoting self-censorship as "culturalization"

 

https://media.8ch.net/gamergate/src/1426023914268-0.pdf

https://media.8ch.net/gamergate/src/1426023914268-1.pdf

 

No wonder they thought that the gg_autoblocker was a good idea, it's just an extension of their line of thought.

Well ****.

[Zoraptor]

So it looks like Ghazi is imploding.

 

 

Not exactly a surprise. One of the reasons I far prefer 'Cultural Stalinism' to 'Cultural Marxism' is the tendency to turn on those who don't believe enough, or those who believe slightly differently, or those who are just perceived to believe slightly differently, every bit as much as those who are the theoretical 'real' enemies. They're always going to disagree somewhat on what the real goals should be, who the real targets are, what the real philosophy is etc, and with a 'no dissent' environment all of them will think right is on their side.

Edited March 12, 2015 by Zoraptor

[Meshugger]

I wonder if the recent Ghazi implosion has something do to do with IGDA having their Executive Director Kate Edwards employing her own company to investigate on "culturalization" in games, all while there are calls from the state representative from Massachusetts to have FBI to investigate GamerGate. 

 

Something's brewing....

[aluminiumtrioxid]

IGDA is promoting self-censorship as "culturalization"

 

https://media.8ch.net/gamergate/src/1426023914268-1.pdf

 

 

Wow, you really have no idea what any of those words mean, do you?

 

 

What is game “culturalization”?

Culturalization takes a step beyond localization, making a more fundamental examination of a game’s assumptions and choices, and then assesses the viability of those creative choices in both the global, multicultural marketplace as well as in specific locales. While localization assists gamers with simply comprehending the game’s content through translation, culturalization allows gamers to engage with the game’s content at a potentially more meaningful level. Or conversely, culturalization ensures that gamers will not be disengaged by a piece of content that is considered incongruent or even offensive in the game’s environment.

 

Translation: "here are some techniques to make your game appealing to different markets".

 

This is, apparently, of the devil.

Edited March 12, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Zoraptor]

Translation: "here are some techniques to make your game appealing to different markets".

 

 

The trouble there is the same as with all sort of 'cultural sensitivity' type stuff. Who is getting offended, what is the threshold of offence, whether practical benefits outweigh the costs of second guessing everything you do, selective application etc. 

 

People will object to it for much the same reasons people object to PC, because it is much the same concept dressed up in much the same 'perfectly reasonable' language.

[Longknife]

DSPGaming is anti-GamerGate.

 

 

I give it a month before anti-GG throws in the towel.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

DSPGaming is anti-GamerGate.

 

 

I give it a month before anti-GG throws in the towel.

Chris-chan came out as anti-gamergate and that didn't stop them so I wouldn't hold your breath.

 

In somewhat related things, that TFYC thing we funded to turn a woman's idea into a game has a screenshot out featuring our daughter. http://blogjob.com/oneangrygamer/2015/03/afterlife-empire-screenshots-showcase-vivian-james-getting-scared/

 

 

Edited March 13, 2015 by KaineParker

[Longknife]

 

DSPGaming is anti-GamerGate.

 

 

I give it a month before anti-GG throws in the towel.

Chris-chan came out as anti-gamergate and that didn't stop them so I wouldn't hold your breath.

 

 

This is at least fully expected though since Chris Chan is into that tomgirl demisexual tumblr bullcrap and such, and he's so obsessed with women and sex that he'd immediately side with the side that has more women. Oh, and he's retarded. Can't forget that.

 

DSP it's like...Like I found the vid of him talking about GamerGate and it starts out actually sounding intelligent, then quickly devolves into "you guys are all idiots for caring" and a bunch of nonsensical crap about how he never complains when people oppose or hate on him (referring to the Gamers are Dead articles) so we shouldn't either. It's just so much "wtf dude" that it's downright shocking how good that guy is at royally screwing up and failing at everything he does. It's like his speech itself makes him sound pro-GG and then he's like "no it's dumb." Yeah ok.

 

 

Totally unrelated note: I have a bet with myself who will last longer before their life begins to crash and burn, DSP or Chris Chan. My money's on DSP crashing first since Chris Chan will probably get pity support due to his mental disabilities, though I would dare argue DSP must have some mental issues himself that were never properly diagnosed.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Longknife

[Volourn]

"he's so obsessed with women and sex that he'd immediately side with the side that has more women. Oh, and he's retarded. Can't forget that."

 

L0L SJWs don't have more women. They have less.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

"he's so obsessed with women and sex that he'd immediately side with the side that has more women. Oh, and he's retarded. Can't forget that."

 

L0L SJWs don't have more women. They have less.

That's actually true. And if I may be a sexist pig, our women look better and are smarter.

[Meshugger]

 

IGDA is promoting self-censorship as "culturalization"

 

https://media.8ch.net/gamergate/src/1426023914268-1.pdf

 

 

Wow, you really have no idea what any of those words mean, do you?

 

 

What is game “culturalization”?

Culturalization takes a step beyond localization, making a more fundamental examination of a game’s assumptions and choices, and then assesses the viability of those creative choices in both the global, multicultural marketplace as well as in specific locales. While localization assists gamers with simply comprehending the game’s content through translation, culturalization allows gamers to engage with the game’s content at a potentially more meaningful level. Or conversely, culturalization ensures that gamers will not be disengaged by a piece of content that is considered incongruent or even offensive in the game’s environment.

 

Translation: "here are some techniques to make your game appealing to different markets".

 

This is, apparently, of the devil.

 

 

It's like having saying that the arab version of Simpsons (Homer eats no hot-dogs or bacon, only doughnuts. No alcohol or duff beer or Moe and no Crusty because he was a jew) is something to strive for. Monetary wise it is just lame and as ethically it is repugnant as ****.

 

This wasn't a presentation by a nobody, this was a presentation by the Executive Director of IGDA, as this is the direction they wish the medium to go for. No wonder that the western gaming industry is so bad, content-wise. A lot of effort is made in appeasement of the feelings of "cultures" that no one cares for.

 

If i want an Arab or Japanese piece of art, like a painting movie or whatnot, i fully expect them to craft as they wish in the context of what the expressions come from that very culture. I do not want a westernized version; actually i would be insulted by it, as any adult would. I suggested that everyone laugh at their stupid faces, because IGDA has zero credibility in this.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Translation: "here are some techniques to make your game appealing to different markets".

 

 

The trouble there is the same as with all sort of 'cultural sensitivity' type stuff. Who is getting offended, what is the threshold of offence, whether practical benefits outweigh the costs of second guessing everything you do, selective application etc. 

 

 

 

"Hey, you can do this and make moar moniez" is not exactly "pushing cultural sensitivity on you".

 

Of course I'd be utterly unsurprised if it turned out that they have nothing but the (on the face, sound*) logic of "western markets aren't the only markets, and if you offend people, they won't give you money" to support the assertion of this being the path to moar moniez.

 

 

*Then again, libertarian logic is also sound on the face; it takes a more detailed economical analysis to unmask it as the giant farce it is, so it's not like this is saying too much.

 

 

 

It's like having saying that the arab version of Simpsons (Homer eats no hot-dogs or bacon, only doughnuts. No alcohol or duff beer or Moe and no Crusty because he was a jew) is something to strive for. Monetary wise it is just lame and as ethically it is repugnant as ****.

 

 

 

...I'm honestly confused.

 

Is eating hot-dogs and bacon such an instrumental plot element in the Simpsons that the authorial vision is meaningfully harmed by their exclusion? 

 

Also, what do you mean by "monetary wise it's just lame"?

 

 

 

This wasn't a presentation by a nobody, this was a presentation by the Executive Director of IGDA, as this is the direction they wish the medium to go for. 

 

 

 

Again, them suggesting this practice will make publishers more money should not be conflated with "they want to enforce this direction on the medium".

 

 

 

No wonder that the western gaming industry is so bad, content-wise. A lot of effort is made in appeasement of the feelings of "cultures" that no one cares for.

 

 

 

...What.

 

Snark aside, I'd be grateful if you could elaborate on this... fascinating... line of thought.

 

 

 

If i want an Arab or Japanese piece of art, like a painting movie or whatnot, i fully expect them to craft as they wish in the context of what the expressions come from that very culture. I do not want a westernized version; actually i would be insulted by it, as any adult would.

 

 

 

...And where does this line of reasoning end? Is anybody who wants to enjoy, say, a Japanese movie, but watches a subbed or dubbed version of it is, mentally, a child? Because, y'know, a fairly huge part of a translator's job is to make the movie comprehensible to as wide an audience as possible, and this, at times, means completely rewriting stuff that makes no sense in the cultural context of the West.

Edited March 13, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Blarghagh]

Let's take it further. Book translations often end up changing puns and whatnot around. Is that cultural marxism?

[Malcador]

Seems a bit more than that though - it is 'beyond' localization, after all. Evaluation of the game's assumptions and choices implies some rather larger changes. It is really 'cultural sensitivity' as for some reason people REALLY get into their games to the point they are offended by everything. Ah, this is why I always though mandating CS students to waste time in Humanities courses was a bad idea.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Malcador

[Amentep]

 

It's like having saying that the arab version of Simpsons (Homer eats no hot-dogs or bacon, only doughnuts. No alcohol or duff beer or Moe and no Crusty because he was a jew) is something to strive for. Monetary wise it is just lame and as ethically it is repugnant as ****.

 

 ...I'm honestly confused.

 

Is eating hot-dogs and bacon such an instrumental plot element in the Simpsons that the authorial vision is meaningfully harmed by their exclusion?

Not to the plot per se, but being a fat slob who eats and drinks in terrible ways is important to who Homer Simpson is.  

 

 

 

If i want an Arab or Japanese piece of art, like a painting movie or whatnot, i fully expect them to craft as they wish in the context of what the expressions come from that very culture. I do not want a westernized version; actually i would be insulted by it, as any adult would.

  

...And where does this line of reasoning end? Is anybody who wants to enjoy, say, a Japanese movie, but watches a subbed or dubbed version of it is, mentally, a child? Because, y'know, a fairly huge part of a translator's job is to make the movie comprehensible to as wide an audience as possible, and this, at times, means completely rewriting stuff that makes no sense in the cultural context of the West.

 

BUT...no one is telling the Japanese film maker "Hey if you put this religious allegory in, you'll offend people in country X. So even though your story hinges on this particular take on western religions, you really shouldn't put that in because you need to consider country X which won't appreciate it". 

 

And that is what the document is asking for - putting "cultural" and "geopolitical" as 'bugs' to be 'fixed'.

 

There's a vastly different thought process with respect to taking something that exists and trying to relay concepts (or jokes) to another culture in a way that preserves the story and relays the context of the original in an understandable way and saying that before something exists, the creators need to avoid doing certain things regardless of why they might be important to the story because someone, somewhere may be offended.

[Meshugger]

 

 

It's like having saying that the arab version of Simpsons (Homer eats no hot-dogs or bacon, only doughnuts. No alcohol or duff beer or Moe and no Crusty because he was a jew) is something to strive for. Monetary wise it is just lame and as ethically it is repugnant as ****.

 

 

 

...I'm honestly confused.

 

Is eating hot-dogs and bacon such an instrumental plot element in the Simpsons that the authorial vision is meaningfully harmed by their exclusion? 

 

Also, what do you mean by "monetary wise it's just lame"?

 

If the characteristics of a character is sacrificed for in order to appease its intended target(s) then it is a form of censorship. The character *is* or isn't. I think that it is lame monetary-wise since it validates pretty much any change of creation according to whatever the stupid focus-groups thinks. Think of all those stupd hollywood endings, yuck.

 

 

Meshugger, on 13 Mar 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

 

This wasn't a presentation by a nobody, this was a presentation by the Executive Director of IGDA, as this is the direction they wish the medium to go for. 

 

 

 

Again, them suggesting this practice will make publishers more money should not be conflated with "they want to enforce this direction on the medium".

 

The way the presentation is framed, i would say that this has more to do with stupid, imaginary sensitivities than raw profit.

 

 

Meshugger, on 13 Mar 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

 

No wonder that the western gaming industry is so bad, content-wise. A lot of effort is made in appeasement of the feelings of "cultures" that no one cares for.

 

 

 

 

Snark aside, I'd be grateful if you could elaborate on this... fascinating... line of thought.

 

Personal attack now? Try to be funnier next time.

 

I have this hypothesis that the reason why so many games are so incredibly bland is due to the same stupid line of thought: "Design with the intent to appease everybody and possibly offend nobody". This presentation gives more validation for that claim.

 

 

Meshugger, on 13 Mar 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

 

If i want an Arab or Japanese piece of art, like a painting movie or whatnot, i fully expect them to craft as they wish in the context of what the expressions come from that very culture. I do not want a westernized version; actually i would be insulted by it, as any adult would.

 

 

 

...And where does this line of reasoning end? Is anybody who wants to enjoy, say, a Japanese movie, but watches a subbed or dubbed version of it is, mentally, a child? Because, y'know, a fairly huge part of a translator's job is to make the movie comprehensible to as wide an audience as possible, and this, at times, means completely rewriting stuff that makes no sense in the cultural context of the West.

 

I am not talking about translation here. I am talking about culturalization.

 

My point is not to change the original creation or as little as possible. Besides, translation is the following:

 

 

Showeman (1916, as cited in Miremadi, 1991:34) considers translation as "a sin"; however, regarding translation as a necessity, Philimore (1919:4) considers it food for the development of a young language. Regarding the ideal in translation, Souter (1920:7) claims that, "our ideal in translation is to produce on the minds of our readers as nearly as possible the same effect as was produced by the original on its readers.

 

...while "culturalization" is not.

[Blarghagh]

This is far more business related than ideology related. Nobody is telling anyone to change allegorical meaning. This is more, if your game includes being a butcher, in India you may want to change the beef to something else. Hardly self-censorship rather unless killing cows is core to your experience. Plus, IGDA isn't telling anyone they have to do this, it's just and article describing things you may want to keep in mind if you choose to localize your content. I'm not entirely sure what the big deal is.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 ...I'm honestly confused.

 

Is eating hot-dogs and bacon such an instrumental plot element in the Simpsons that the authorial vision is meaningfully harmed by their exclusion?

Not to the plot per se, but being a fat slob who eats and drinks in terrible ways is important to who Homer Simpson is.  

 

 

 

But here's the point: subsisting only on a diet of donuts is also a textbook example of eating in terrible ways. The characterization is not harmed by the exclusion of hot dogs. Quite the opposite, actually: because in the targeted cultural environment, "eating hot dogs and bacon" signals something different than "eats and drinks in terrible ways", I think it can be argued that authorial intent is preserved by excluding those.

 

 

Seems a bit more than that though - it is 'beyond' localization, after all. Evaluation of the game's assumptions and choices implies some rather larger changes.

 

that is what the document is asking for - putting "cultural" and "geopolitical" as 'bugs' to be 'fixed'.

 

 

I am not talking about translation here. I am talking about culturalization.

 

My point is not to change the original creation or as little as possible. Besides, translation is the following:

 

 

Showeman (1916, as cited in Miremadi, 1991:34) considers translation as "a sin"; however, regarding translation as a necessity, Philimore (1919:4) considers it food for the development of a young language. Regarding the ideal in translation, Souter (1920:7) claims that, "our ideal in translation is to produce on the minds of our readers as nearly as possible the same effect as was produced by the original on its readers.

 

...while "culturalization" is not.

 

 

 

 

Identify issues

 

As mentioned previously, culturalization is most effective the earlier it’s applied to game content, thus engaging in team discussions around meaning, intent and purpose of characters, plots, environments, objects and so on during the conceptual stages can often catch the majority of potential issues. (snip)

 

Assess severity

 

Just because issues have been identified in the research, it doesn’t mean every potential issue needs to be fixed. (emphasis mine) After identifying potential cultural issues, the key in next stage is to be able to effectively determine the “must fix” issues.

 

1. Triage the found issues: Separate the “overt offenses” – the obvious things that you know for certain will be a problem from the “reasonable risks” – the things that might raise some concerns but won’t likely prevent a game from staying in the intended locale.

2. Document your choices: Every game publisher has a choice as to whether or not to change sensitive content. Most companies do but there are times when it may not make sense to make even a minor content change because the issue is borderline sensitive. In such cases, it’s critical to document the decision-making in a defensive explanation, in case it might be needed if a government or

consumers raise the issue.

 

Implement with precision

 

Many game designers carry a preconceived notion that culturalization is about making massive changes and rethinking the entire game idea. This is a misperception, and one key reason why many don’t confront the geopolitical and cultural aspect at all, as they believe it’s going to be too disruptive. This highlights one of the most important principles of culturalization:

 

1. Be surgical: Make the most minimal change to the least amount of content. Only change what really must be changed in order to ensure distribution to the game’s target market. In the majority of cases with cultural issues, the resolution is a small, precise fix of a specific symbol, or word, or character design; it’s usually not a major issue such as the entire game’s premise.

 

 

 

So that particular problem seems to be a non-issue, dontchathink?

 

 

 

If the characteristics of a character is sacrificed for in order to appease its intended target(s) then it is a form of censorship. 

 

 

 

If the characteristics of a character is (are?) sacrificed, maybe. See my point above re:different things signaling different characteristics in different cultural contexts.

 

 

The way the presentation is framed, i would say that this has more to do with stupid, imaginary sensitivities than raw profit.

 

 

Which is surely an opinion you could support with textual evidence; please do so.

 

 

 

Personal attack now? Try to be funnier next time.

 

 

I don't think my opinion that the idea of "the western gaming industry is bad because the industry is trying to appease all the feelings of cultures nobody cares about" is literally the most insanely idiotic thing I've heard today is even debatable, much less "constitutes as a personal attack".

Edited March 13, 2015 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Malcador]

But not really, they are still to be seen as issues (though the advice to prioritize based on effectiveness it seems odd to be advice for developers beyond first year, heh).

The approach they are pushing, considering the definition of the problem can be fairly loose these days, is the issue though, not every specific implementation - as the former would be the place to examine anyway.

 

When reading things from these types sometimes a lot of things can be masked, in my experience.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Malcador

[aluminiumtrioxid]

When reading things from these types sometimes a lot of things can be masked, in my experience.

 

Says the person who holds the whole field in contempt, would probably not understand a word if I posted a quote from, say, Derrida, yet for some incomprehensible reason, still maintains the idea that he knows better what people mean when using a jargon he doesn't speak. The Dunning-Kruger effect is in full swing, it seems.

[Blarghagh]

Either way, the IGDA holds pretty little sway anyway. It's not like their thing means much. Majority of artists and programmers don't know the thing exists.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Either way, the IGDA holds pretty little sway anyway. It's not like their thing means much. Majority of artists and programmers don't know the thing exists.

 

...That too.

[Amentep]

This is far more business related than ideology related. Nobody is telling anyone to change allegorical meaning. This is more, if your game includes being a butcher, in India you may want to change the beef to something else. Hardly self-censorship rather unless killing cows is core to your experience. Plus, IGDA isn't telling anyone they have to do this, it's just and article describing things you may want to keep in mind if you choose to localize your content. I'm not entirely sure what the big deal is.

 

Emphasis mine:

Be surgical: Make the most minimal change to the least amount of content. Only change what really must be changed in order to ensure distribution to the game’s target market. In the majority of cases with cultural issues, the resolution is a small, precise fix of a specific symbol, or word, or character design; it’s usually not a major issue such as the entire game’s premise (although this can occur).

They actually ARE saying that.

 

 

 

...I'm honestly confused.

 

Is eating hot-dogs and bacon such an instrumental plot element in the Simpsons that the authorial vision is meaningfully harmed by their exclusion?

Not to the plot per se, but being a fat slob who eats and drinks in terrible ways is important to who Homer Simpson is.

 

 

 

But here's the point: subsisting only on a diet of donuts is also a textbook example of eating in terrible ways. The characterization is not harmed by the exclusion of hot dogs. Quite the opposite, actually: because in the targeted cultural environment, "eating hot dogs and bacon" signals something different than "eats and drinks in terrible ways", I think it can be argued that authorial intent is preserved by excluding those.

 

But it changes the fact that Homer will eat anything (and has in the show done things like ate leftover lard from a fryer) that he is, in essence, a glutton with no discrimination or self-control.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Amentep