The Official Romance Thread

[BigBripa]

To the comment about a human/orlan romance and the resulting progeny, the lore already states that unions between partners of separate races can't result in a child so that handles itself.

 

There are only two games I loved for their romances, Star Ocean 2 where them fighting alongside each other/their actions in combat actually affects the relationship. I thought that was awesome and the whole growing closer to the people you actually travel with is something missing from most rpgs with romance, where all meaningful interactions are in cut scenes and independent of the actual journey, or where if an event is important to a character you're forced to bring them along. A good romance should incorporate the fact that the most prevalent aspect in all romances is that people happen to be next to each other when **** goes down. If you're camping with someone in the woods while hunting a sorcerer or a dragon and you know you might die... Yeah I feel like that would inspire closeness

 

Also KOTOR where you could romance Bastila into joining the dark side with you and killing all those innocents, that blew my mind. I was just gaping at the screen like, are they really gonna let me do this? And they did. It was just amazing.

 

That being said, most games get it so very, very wrong and I won't miss it in this game as long as there is meaningful companion interaction.

[Darkpriest]

I dislike romances for a lot of reasons and i voiced that multiple times. romances are trivial push "abc" to sex virtual pixels that are hotter than whatever you had chance to date in your life for a bunch of losers.

 

You want to make romances believable, fine, then make the NPCs have their clear preference. Make them even consider the looks of the character which you created.

 

don't make the NPCs shallow in this regard. for example a certiain female might have a thing for warrior males that act like sons-of-b... but another guy might be falling into a male that is of elven origin and has more poetic nature, when talking and dealing with the troubles and quests. If I can F. anyone as anyone doing anything as long as I push "abc" then the romance is a failure...

 

Sure, limited preferences would mean, that certain characters created by a player would never get a shot at a certain romance, for example a hideous bad mannered dwarf will not get a night out with that nice elven ass, then well, tough to be you, n reality such things as rejections happen too and it would be a really nice touch to put such thing in the game to make the characters more believable, and then even the dialog writing for specific scenarios can be better, instead of race and gender plain generalized text sequences after "a / b / c" hits....

[Luridis]

I dislike romances for a lot of reasons and i voiced that multiple times. romances are trivial push "abc" to sex virtual pixels that are hotter than whatever you had chance to date in your life for a bunch of losers.

 

You want to make romances believable, fine, then make the NPCs have their clear preference. Make them even consider the looks of the character which you created.

 

don't make the NPCs shallow in this regard. for example a certiain female might have a thing for warrior males that act like sons-of-b... but another guy might be falling into a male that is of elven origin and has more poetic nature, when talking and dealing with the troubles and quests. If I can F. anyone as anyone doing anything as long as I push "abc" then the romance is a failure...

 

Sure, limited preferences would mean, that certain characters created by a player would never get a shot at a certain romance, for example a hideous bad mannered dwarf will not get a night out with that nice elven ass, then well, tough to be you, n reality such things as rejections happen too and it would be a really nice touch to put such thing in the game to make the characters more believable, and then even the dialog writing for specific scenarios can be better, instead of race and gender plain generalized text sequences after "a / b / c" hits....

 

Hideous dwarves? Nice elven butts? Consider your character's appearance? We definitely don't want you writing them then.

 

You do realize microprocessors can't have an "opinion" of human aesthetics.

[Darkpriest]

 

I dislike romances for a lot of reasons and i voiced that multiple times. romances are trivial push "abc" to sex virtual pixels that are hotter than whatever you had chance to date in your life for a bunch of losers.

 

You want to make romances believable, fine, then make the NPCs have their clear preference. Make them even consider the looks of the character which you created.

 

don't make the NPCs shallow in this regard. for example a certiain female might have a thing for warrior males that act like sons-of-b... but another guy might be falling into a male that is of elven origin and has more poetic nature, when talking and dealing with the troubles and quests. If I can F. anyone as anyone doing anything as long as I push "abc" then the romance is a failure...

 

Sure, limited preferences would mean, that certain characters created by a player would never get a shot at a certain romance, for example a hideous bad mannered dwarf will not get a night out with that nice elven ass, then well, tough to be you, n reality such things as rejections happen too and it would be a really nice touch to put such thing in the game to make the characters more believable, and then even the dialog writing for specific scenarios can be better, instead of race and gender plain generalized text sequences after "a / b / c" hits....

 

Hideous dwarves? Nice elven butts? Consider your character's appearance? We definitely don't want you writing them then.

 

You do realize microprocessors can't have an "opinion" of human aesthetics.

 

 

use an attribute score? also.. it can... to a certain point. there are studies about human aesthetics and preferences.

[Lord Wafflebum]

I don't want my game judging if my character is attractive enough or not based on facegen or something. Some sort of charisma skill, sure, but based on what my character looks like would creep me out in all kinds of ways (assuming it's even a possibility.)

[Lephys]

What if you could choose descriptors, kinda like backgrounds and such? Like "rugged," or "delicate," etc.? Then, you could have certain people react to those particular aesthetic traits. *shrug*. That'd be less strange, as long as you got to pick them.

[500MetricTonnes]

I believe Arcanum had a "Beauty" attribute that influenced NPCs reaction. Personally, I'd find it amusing if an RPG woud allow you to create a character so butt-ugly that NPCs would remark about how it is physically painfully to look at you, and how you should be forced to wear a paper bag over your head in order to spare them the sight of your hideous visage.

 

Examples:

 

[Lephys]

That bottom-right one is PRICELESS! LOLCANO!

[500MetricTonnes]

Back when I was on the BSN, there was a thread titled "The Adventures of Ugly Shepard." The thread is still there, but all the image links are broken, sadly. Rather unfortunate, because the whole thread was side-splittingly hilarious.

Edited January 2, 2015 by 500MetricTonnes

[Sonntam]

Generally I think current reputation system could for in favor of a romance system.

 

For example, some characters could be more attracted to "clever" character who always jokes around and that would be reflected in dialogue. Perhaps it would be easier to romance the character. Or otherwise maybe a companion could go: "wow I never thought I would fall for a clown like you, but I guess here we are".

 

I think it would be easier than with appearance, especially since beauty standards can vary a lot (especially with different races like we have in PoE). We don't have only humans here, so maybe aumaua like more asymetrical faces than humans do. What about orlans? Do they maybe like very high set and small noses? And do you really want to track how every race perceives your beauty?

 

At the same time a standardized beauty system may oversimplify things too much.

 

Plus, if face recognition software for beauty became a thing, many people would feel forced go the safe route and take the perfect face from the internet that allows you to gain perfect beauty scores. Since the best part about RPGs for me is to make my own unique character, I would feel very grumpy indeed.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Sonntam

[Blowfish64]

I'm in favor of romances in RPGs.  I feel like a lot of the arguments here against them are strawmen arguments.  Sure, I don't think anyone here wants a half-assed romance the way Bioware does them nowadays where you hit A, B, C and boom, hit the sack regardless of your actions or personality, but as some have said on this thread already, when they are done well, they're some of the most memorable parts of the game and can give it greater gravitas.  Aeris in FF7 anyone?  Loved Morrigan and Alistair, both times made me choose different endings because of them.  SPOILER: The point where Morrigan is basically begging you to dump her because it turns out she's not a total bitch and feels bad knowing what she's going to do to you in the end, that's a scene I still remember from DA:O and I haven't played that game in years.  END SPOILER  BG2 did them fairly well too, loved VIconia and how her character changed over time.  They add plenty of the RP in RPGs when they're done well, much more so I'd dare to say than any other SINGLE aspect of a role-playing game (I'm not saying they should be the overall focus of a game, I'm just saying they have huge potential for developing your character and caring about the people travelling with you).  They can also lead to some tough choices.  They don't need to be inclusive of EVERYTHING, but a few would be nice.  Not to mention, they add a lot of replayability to the game.  If that's not what you want, so be it, but personally I feel like there's a whole layer of depth that's just wasted when RPGs don't venture into this area. 

[Edvin]

There was so many sections where was discuss romances that I lost lucidity...
( This topic is so popular that developers should think twice about their decision. )
 

What do we really know?
(This is not a rhetorical question, I want to know.)

 

It has been said the final word?

 It is 100% sure that they will never be any romance?

Or there is still at least a minimal chance?

To be honest, the most current information, which I discovered was Josh Sawyer and his famous statement:
 

We're not doing romances, but the other characters do have pretty detailed stories, they do have their own personal motivations and goals that sometimes align with yours and sometimes they don't. They interject into your conversations, they argue with you, they argue with each other. Talk of romances led us onto talk of maturity, as "mature themes" are something Pillars of Eternity has. "And when we say mature themes we don't mean lots of..." Sawyer paused, searching for a phrase, "f***ing, right?"

This statement I'd rather not comment, because I'm afraid that I would get ban.

[TheisEjsing]

I find it kinda strange that people find Bioware's romance dialog forced or formula like. In real life flirting starts pretty much the moment people meet, and romances aren't really that complicated. Relationships is a different thing, but few games ever get to them. 

[500MetricTonnes]

 

There was so many sections where was discuss romances that I lost lucidity...

( This topic is so popular that developers should think twice about their decision. )

 

What do we really know?

(This is not a rhetorical question, I want to know.)

 

It has been said the final word?

 It is 100% sure that they will never be any romance?

Or there is still at least a minimal chance?

To be honest, the most current information, which I discovered was Josh Sawyer and his famous statement:

 

We're not doing romances, but the other characters do have pretty detailed stories, they do have their own personal motivations and goals that sometimes align with yours and sometimes they don't. They interject into your conversations, they argue with you, they argue with each other. Talk of romances led us onto talk of maturity, as "mature themes" are something Pillars of Eternity has. "And when we say mature themes we don't mean lots of..." Sawyer paused, searching for a phrase, "f***ing, right?"

This statement I'd rather not comment, because I'm afraid that I would get ban.

 

Personally, every time I hear developers proclaim the game will have "mature" themes I cringe a bit, because I fear we'll end up with something like The Witcher - a world filled with puerile crassness, vulgarity, NPCs dropping the f-bomb every sentence, NPCs determined to say something like "Hey, remember when we raped/murdered/burned alive/flayed/eviscerated that whole village? Good times, mate!" within earshot of the player character, and so on. Fortunately, I know Obsidian won't go down that path.

 

I also believe Chris Avellone said he doesn't care much for romances, unless they're tragic or unrequited (Planescape: Torment is probably the best example of this, since it features both). Of course, I imagine players will probably wind up making romance mods for the game...of varying quality. Anyone remember the Saerilith mod for Baldur's Gate? No, of course you don't remember it, because it was so horrible your mind locked away all memory of it lest you be reduced to gibbering insanity.

Edited January 4, 2015 by 500MetricTonnes

[Lord Wafflebum]

I agree that "mature" doesn't translate well for many game developers, but I think OE has established that they have a good grasp of what "mature themes" should be. For me, the Fallout: New Vegas DLC really showed off their writing chops. The tragedy of the Dead Money DLC, assuming you spend the time and effort to get the whole story behind all characters past and present, is pretty dark. It's a great example of fate laughing at your plans. 

 

Some of that is why I'd really like to see OE penned romances. I think they of all folks could buck the current trend of "romances" in games that feel less than realistic. A game like PoE allows for much more exposition than any of the modern Bioware games. I think the reason romances tend to suffer in Bioware games is because the games themselves don't seem to have a sense of themselves. DA:I especially feels like it can't decide if it wants to be a graphical juggernaut AAA shooter or an RPG. I believe it would be possible to do both, but the costs and development time to do so I think would be too prohibitive.

[Sonntam]

 

There was so many sections where was discuss romances that I lost lucidity...

( This topic is so popular that developers should think twice about their decision. )

 

What do we really know?

(This is not a rhetorical question, I want to know.)

 

It has been said the final word?

 It is 100% sure that they will never be any romance?

Or there is still at least a minimal chance?

To be honest, the most current information, which I discovered was Josh Sawyer and his famous statement:

 

We're not doing romances, but the other characters do have pretty detailed stories, they do have their own personal motivations and goals that sometimes align with yours and sometimes they don't. They interject into your conversations, they argue with you, they argue with each other. Talk of romances led us onto talk of maturity, as "mature themes" are something Pillars of Eternity has. "And when we say mature themes we don't mean lots of..." Sawyer paused, searching for a phrase, "f***ing, right?"

This statement I'd rather not comment, because I'm afraid that I would get ban.

 

I guess this is the reason why I hope there will be one-night stands (with companions or NPCs), awkward flirting (probably not with companions, but NPCs are alright too) and some marriages (because weddings are hilarious, especially when they are done for plot reasons). 

 

I am pretty okay with romances being not a thing in the sense that half companions be romanceable and their romance must have same outline (flirt at beginning, kiss in middle of the game, have sex before the major boss fight at the end). 

 

What was done in Kotor 2 with Atton was pretty neat. As a protagonist you are unable to return Atton's feelings, so while Atton is actually trying to romance you as the player, but you are like "I see nothing, hear nothing, go and chart the course for the next planet, Atton". 

 

It allows more complexity for Atton and the kind of unrequited, conditionless love is pretty fun to watch, too. 

 

I wouldn't mind if player character in PoE was allowed to go Atton route and crush on a companion, without ever getting together. Sort of similar as with Visas (minus the sexual tension) where you just meditate together, sharing a very close and platonic bond. 

 

This is what I like the most about romances, to be honest, having your character become very close to a specific character and having the game acknowledge that THIS is the one, mostfavorite companion, would run off into the sunset together, 10/10, may only death do us apart. 

[500MetricTonnes]

 

 

There was so many sections where was discuss romances that I lost lucidity...

( This topic is so popular that developers should think twice about their decision. )

 

What do we really know?

(This is not a rhetorical question, I want to know.)

 

It has been said the final word?

 It is 100% sure that they will never be any romance?

Or there is still at least a minimal chance?

To be honest, the most current information, which I discovered was Josh Sawyer and his famous statement:

 

We're not doing romances, but the other characters do have pretty detailed stories, they do have their own personal motivations and goals that sometimes align with yours and sometimes they don't. They interject into your conversations, they argue with you, they argue with each other. Talk of romances led us onto talk of maturity, as "mature themes" are something Pillars of Eternity has. "And when we say mature themes we don't mean lots of..." Sawyer paused, searching for a phrase, "f***ing, right?"

This statement I'd rather not comment, because I'm afraid that I would get ban.

 

I guess this is the reason why I hope there will be one-night stands (with companions or NPCs), awkward flirting (probably not with companions, but NPCs are alright too) and some marriages (because weddings are hilarious, especially when they are done for plot reasons). 

 

I am pretty okay with romances being not a thing in the sense that half companions be romanceable and their romance must have same outline (flirt at beginning, kiss in middle of the game, have sex before the major boss fight at the end). 

 

What was done in Kotor 2 with Atton was pretty neat. As a protagonist you are unable to return Atton's feelings, so while Atton is actually trying to romance you as the player, but you are like "I see nothing, hear nothing, go and chart the course for the next planet, Atton". 

 

It allows more complexity for Atton and the kind of unrequited, conditionless love is pretty fun to watch, too. 

 

I wouldn't mind if player character in PoE was allowed to go Atton route and crush on a companion, without ever getting together. Sort of similar as with Visas (minus the sexual tension) where you just meditate together, sharing a very close and platonic bond. 

 

This is what I like the most about romances, to be honest, having your character become very close to a specific character and having the game acknowledge that THIS is the one, mostfavorite companion, would run off into the sunset together, 10/10, may only death do us apart. 

 

It's a good thing the Exile's relationship with Visas never became intimate. Can you imagine how their night together would go?

 

Just picture it. He turns the lights in his quarters down low, maybe lights a few candles here and there. And then she strolls into the bedroom, wearing her sexy lingerie, and the Exile approaches her, barely able to restrain his passion. He wants to sweep her off her feet and carry her to the bed where they will make sweet, sweet love to each other, but before he does, he gently lifts her veil...

 

...and sees THIS!

 

"Where we're going, we don't need eyes to see..."

[LadyCrimson]

I seem to recall that at some point there were some interviews or questions responded to that essentially = "no, no romances in PoE" but it was so long ago I don't remember exactly, and I'm too lazy to search the many multitudes of previous romance threads (and there were many many) for it.

[TheisEjsing]

LadyCrimson maybe it's this one you remember? it's at 7:50

 

 

[LadyCrimson]

Yeah, I think that was the one.

 

Oh and my comment was in response to Edvin's querry re:  "It is 100% sure that they will never be any romance?"

[LadyCrimson]

Wait...I just noticed the posting date of that video. If that was near the interview date, then not the one I was thinking of. Oh well, doesn't really matter. I think it's been said often enough that there won't be specific romances written for PoE. Whether that means "never ever" ... for example, if there's a sequel ... who can say. But not in the first one.

[TheisEjsing]

I'm certain that OE will consider a romance in a sequel if PoE makes a lot of dough.

[Stun]

I'm certain that OE will consider a romance in a sequel if PoE makes a lot of dough.

I certainly hope not. Obsidian's never done a romance that didn't suck monkey balls. It would be stupid for them to follow up PoE1's financial success with a sequel that contains features they can't do well.

 

If PoE ends up being a super-profitable game, I'm hoping Obsidian reacts intelligently, by pointing to its sales numbers and saying: "See that, Oh misguided RPG industry? RPGs don't need gushy soap opera elements to make money."

Edited January 6, 2015 by Stun

[BruceVC]

 

I'm certain that OE will consider a romance in a sequel if PoE makes a lot of dough.

I certainly hope not. Obsidian's never done a romance that didn't suck monkey balls. It would be stupid for them to follow up PoE1's financial success with a sequel that contains features they can't do well.

 

If PoE ends up being a super-profitable game, I'm hoping Obsidian reacts intelligently, by pointing to its sales numbers and saying: "See that, Oh misguided RPG industry? RPGs don't need gushy soap opera elements to make money."

 

 

No this is a completely unreasonable and unrealistic  expectation, most of us promancers are very optimistic that Obsidian will implement some form of Romance in PoE2. Why go against what most people would like ?

[TheisEjsing]

Well, Stun I think that's an unconstructive point of view. Let's be honest. Romancing in games is still a fairly new concept, and the Casablanca of rpg's has not been made. Most romances are pretty weak, but many people enjoy them, I have enjoyed a few myself.

 

And if they are to evolve, people like OE has to take them to the next level and break of the primitive soap concept of romances that AAA games seem to want establish as the standard. 

Edited January 6, 2015 by TheisEjsing