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rip Boris Nemtsov


Gromnir

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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/28/world/europe/boris-nemtsov-russian-opposition-leader-is-shot-dead.html?_r=0

 

we were made aware that not everyvody is a nytimes subscriber. who knew?

 

"In recent years, Mr. Nemtsov’s star had been eclipsed by Aleksei A. Navalny, the anticorruption blogger who played a leading role in the 2011 protests. But Mr. Nemtsov remained active and was a leading organizer of this weekend’s planned rally.
 
"Mr. Nemtsov was organizing the rally in part because Mr. Navalny is currently serving a two-week jail sentence for handing out leaflets on the subway. The rally was also noteworthy because it was the first political action inside Russia specifically endorsed by Mikhail B. Khodorkovsky, the exiled former political prisoner, who had signed the petition for a parade permit.
 
"The investigative committee of the prosecutor’s office said gunmen shot Mr. Nemtsov four times in the back as he walked over the bridge, and by accident or design theatrically placed his body on the wet asphalt with the Kremlin visible behind. No suspects have been reported to be in custody."
 
is not the whole article.
 
oh well. Natalia Estemirova, and  Aleksandr V. Litvinenko and now Boris Nemstov? terrible.
 
alternative source:

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2015/02/27/389598306/putin-critic-boris-nemtsov-shot-dead

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Yeah I saw this, its appalling but really just confirms the nature of the political climate in Russia. At least Putin condemned it 

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Some tweets I've found in some defence watcher circles:

 

7bxY5rY.jpg

Quote
"All of life’s lessons come with a price…
We may learn a lesson, and things may get better in the end…
So that’s the trade off…life experience for exhaustion… wisdom for innocence.
There may be a happy ending to our stories…
but we paid for that with little pieces of our souls and we will never get those back."

-Austin Lunn

 

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Apparently he had information that unequivocally revealed Russian interference in Ukraine

 

But what worries me even more is that Putin probably had nothing to do with it but it shows us just how out of control certain groups in Russia are as far as following there own agenda is concerned 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Apparently he had information that unequivocally revealed Russian interference in Ukraine

 

But what worries me even more is that Putin probably had nothing to do with it but it shows us just how out of control certain groups in Russia are as far as following there own agenda is concerned 

Can I ask you what your'e basing this analysis on?

I didn't realize there was such a gap between Putin and the FSB, I always thought that was for plausible deniability

I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

village_idiot.gif

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Putin is FSB. We are talking here about a former KGB officer that is now a most powerful person in Russia. Some of his methods are questionable but you cant deny he lifted Russia from the super bad state they were during the drunken bear era...

 

Sure, he probably could have solved the issue of crimeas black sea fleet base better but only someone retarded would think that Russians would give up one of the most important assets in their geopolitcis and military presence. Ukraine situation is a fault of two sides and much more.complicated than a lot of media coverage (because media are driven by senasationalism and domestic propaganda)

 

Sure the convinient deaths of some people appear, but to be honest the western democracy is also flawed as it is the rule of stupid. Majority of population is stupid yet every vote has the same weight.

 

The original greek democracy was different as there was something called census which was dependant on wealth and education if i recall correctly and not all citizens had the right to vote. How can someone having no idea.about economy etc decide which party will win and create laws? Its stupid.

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Well 

 

 

Apparently he had information that unequivocally revealed Russian interference in Ukraine

 

But what worries me even more is that Putin probably had nothing to do with it but it shows us just how out of control certain groups in Russia are as far as following there own agenda is concerned 

Can I ask you what your'e basing this analysis on?
I didn't realize there was such a gap between Putin and the FSB, I always thought that was for plausible deniability

 

It could be people he egged on in Ukraine but doesn't exactly control. 

Na na  na na  na na  ...

greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER.

That is all.

 

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He reportedly received multiple threats over his Charlie Hebdo position. And they found the car from which he was shot, it has Ingush number plates. Ingushetia is a Muslim republic in the Caucasus. The version of islamist attack is easily more believable and grounded than <insert your favorite FSB conspiracy theory>.

 

Apparently he had information that unequivocally revealed Russian interference in Ukraine

 

The man himself and the particular clique of opposition personalities around him have a propensity for grandiose claims and outright bull****. All of the stuff he put out in recent years were based on compounding open source information and conjecture. Forgive me for being very skeptical about the existence of any 'unequivocal proof' that isn't freely available.

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I thought everyone had proof of that already from what NATO and Ukraine have been saying.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Some tweets I've found in some defence watcher circles:

 

7bxY5rY.jpg

How long after it was this photo taken though? I don't imagine they never clean up crime scenes.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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He reportedly received multiple threats over his Charlie Hebdo position. And they found the car from which he was shot, it has Ingush number plates. Ingushetia is a Muslim republic in the Caucasus. The version of islamist attack is easily more believable and grounded than <insert your favorite FSB conspiracy theory>.

 

Why not both? Not that I know anything at all about this case, but the typical secret police would hardly do it themselves, and if they did so, not without disguise. I have no idea about this murder, but if all people were as gullible as you, intelligence services would have no problem getting away with assassinating anyone they wanted.

"Well, overkill is my middle name. And my last name. And all of my other names as well!"

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I have no idea about this murder, but if all people were as gullible as you, intelligence services would have no problem getting away with assassinating anyone they wanted.

Kind of funny reading that sentence, though it's not much of a surprise at this point.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Yeah, I rather doubt most intelligence services have any problem assassinating anyone they want and getting away with it no matter how gullible or not people are. Set up an alternative (often suicide) with evidence then label everyone who disagrees as a conspiracy theorist- worked pretty well for Tony Blair vis-a-vis David Kelly, after all.

 

Find it rather doubtful that it was an 'official' assassination, personally. Pretty sure that Putin doesn't care that much about the 14% of Russians who don't approve of him, and he has other tools to tackle those he wants taken out of the picture, per Khordokovsky and Navalny so has very little to gain and there was no imminent threat. Muslims, some oligarch he's annoyed, someone thinking they're doing Putin a favour or someone thinking they're being a patriot appear far more likely.

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Yeah I saw this, its appalling but really just confirms the nature of the political climate in Russia. At least Putin condemned it 

 

Yes, Putin "condemns" this act.

 

8570175.jpg

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"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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Why not both? Not that I know anything at all about this case, but the typical secret police would hardly do it themselves, and if they did so, not without disguise. I have no idea about this murder, but if all people were as gullible as you, intelligence services would have no problem getting away with assassinating anyone they wanted.

 

Because it's hard to come up with a motive without again indulging in conspiracy theories. Nemtsov's popularity was in low single digits, it's hard to imagine him being threatening in any way, and the government doesn't need this extra pr headache right now on top of everything.

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the suggestion that some kinda islamaic extremist group is responsible for the murder is difficult to believe... 'cause islamic terrorists/extremists is notorious for maintaining a low-profile with the media and avoiding publicity whenever possible?

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31691727

 

list at the end of the article should raise eyebrows.

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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"Pretty sure that Putin doesn't care that much about the 14% of Russians who don't approve of him,"

 

You  actually believe the Russian polls are even remotely accurate? L0L You do realize it is usually dictators who have really high polling numbers. :p I mean Saddam Hussein had what? 99%. LMAO

 

And, we all know how we worship the Great NK Leader in that country. :)

Edited by Volourn

DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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Well, you can go look at some historical results if you like. Pretty sure Mr Kim or Saddam wouldn't tolerate a 5.8/10 for presidential performance (a C grade) or a mere 16% saying that things would improve (vs 45% saying they wouldn't), both results from previous polls by the same people while Putin was in office.
 
Afraid you'll just have to face the FACT!s, Putin is genuinely popular. And it's largely the west's response that has made him so. If they weren't so keen on talking Russia down he'd have had far more domestic backlash, but nobody likes traitors and at the moment Cameron, Kerry et alia are managing to make anyone pro west look like a traitor.

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Well, you can go look at some historical results if you like. Pretty sure Mr Kim or Saddam wouldn't tolerate a 5.8/10 for presidential performance (a C grade) or a mere 16% saying that things would improve (vs 45% saying they wouldn't), both results from previous polls by the same people while Putin was in office.

 

Afraid you'll just have to face the FACT!s, Putin is genuinely popular. And it's largely the west's response that has made him so. If they weren't so keen on talking Russia down he'd have had far more domestic backlash, but nobody likes traitors and at the moment Cameron, Kerry et alia are managing to make anyone pro west look like a traitor.

 

Sure, he is popular in Russia buts because Putin controls the narrative within Russia and the media. So Russians see what he wants them to see, I find it amazing that your definition of a popular leader is someone who decides that censorship and propaganda are the way to control political support to ensure his popularity ratings  :shrugz:

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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