Angry Joe LOVED Pillars Of Eternity

[Death Machine Miyagi]

Romance is bad because its creepy to have a series of correct steps to follow in order to make a pretend lady want to kiss you.

 

I've always found this a strange argument. It gives me the distinct impression that, somewhere at the dawn of history, there were CRPG Grognards rolling their eyes at the notion of playing a game where you have 'relationships' with NPCs or 'talk' to them in any meaningful way rather than just hacking them to pieces. I mean, geez, who needs to talk to a bunch of virtual friends? It's creepy. 

 

Truth is, game romances themselves aren't bad, anymore than having characters with richly detailed personalities and back stories is bad. I welcome any chance a game gives me to give my character more personality, just as I welcome more personality from NPCs. It's just that Bioware has reduced it to a formulaic and extremely simple dating sim rather than making it interesting in any way, which has left a lot of people with a sour impression of the idea.

 

My opinion is that it could be done well, if someone were willing to take risks and make it more involving than 'play the therapist and get a fade to black sex scene.' 

[Lord Wafflebum]

Romance is bad because its creepy to have a series of correct steps to follow in order to make a pretend lady want to kiss you.

Clearly you're unfamiliar with the D.E.N.N.I.S. method

[Lord Wafflebum]

You do know that there is a specific thread to discuss about Romance ? I'm quite sure you can already find there each arguments and counter arguments you're invoking in this one.

Just saying 

I know. I'm the cause of the derailment. Viva la romance!

 

Also, every thread should be a romance thread.

[500MetricTonnes]

What's truly unacceptable is when the game steers my character into a romance without my input.

 

In the first Mass Effect, I talked to Ashley a few times. At no point during these conversations did Shepard say anything that could be interpreted as flirtatious, yet all of a sudden the game decided that we were in a relationship! Likewise, Liara suddenly decides that she finds you "fascinating" despite the fact that you've barely spoken with her. It all feels extremely forced and artificial.

 

Likewise in DA:O, I was playing as a human noble female, and I was generally nice to Alistair without moving into romantic territory. So imagine my surprise when, the next time we speak at camp, Alistair declares that he wants to spend the night with my character! She tells him "no" but everyone else in the party has banters that suggest the two of us are an item.

 

It felt like the game was nudging me constantly towards the romance, when I kept thinking "I just to want to learn more about you! I don't want to get into your pants!"

[Lord Wafflebum]

What's truly unacceptable is when the game steers my character into a romance without my input.

 

In the first Mass Effect, I talked to Ashley a few times. At no point during these conversations did Shepard say anything that could be interpreted as flirtatious, yet all of a sudden the game decided that we were in a relationship! Likewise, Liara suddenly decides that she finds you "fascinating" despite the fact that you've barely spoken with her. It all feels extremely forced and artificial.

 

Likewise in DA:O, I was playing as a human noble female, and I was generally nice to Alistair without moving into romantic territory. So imagine my surprise when, the next time we speak at camp, Alistair declares that he wants to spend the night with my character! She tells him "no" but everyone else in the party has banters that suggest the two of us are an item.

 

It felt like the game was nudging me constantly towards the romance, when I kept thinking "I just to want to learn more about you! I don't want to get into your pants!"

That's fair. In ME3 I was almost forcibly entered into a homosexual relationship with Kaiden. I thought I was just being a good bro, but then it got weird. Really weird. I've felt permanently uncomfortable ever since then.

[Death Machine Miyagi]

What's truly unacceptable is when the game steers my character into a romance without my input.

 

In the first Mass Effect, I talked to Ashley a few times. At no point during these conversations did Shepard say anything that could be interpreted as flirtatious, yet all of a sudden the game decided that we were in a relationship! Likewise, Liara suddenly decides that she finds you "fascinating" despite the fact that you've barely spoken with her. It all feels extremely forced and artificial.

 

Likewise in DA:O, I was playing as a human noble female, and I was generally nice to Alistair without moving into romantic territory. So imagine my surprise when, the next time we speak at camp, Alistair declares that he wants to spend the night with my character! She tells him "no" but everyone else in the party has banters that suggest the two of us are an item.

 

It felt like the game was nudging me constantly towards the romance, when I kept thinking "I just to want to learn more about you! I don't want to get into your pants!"

 

I deliberately killed off Ashley on Virmire to avoid this. You know something is messed up when the only way to avoid having a romance is to either be a complete **** or murder the romanceable NPC. 

[Mayama]

 

Some games have limitations due to this wider spread of audiences and consoles not being able to do everything and that can be a bummer.

Yeah. THIS. And...not anything else you've said on this thread.

 

The fact of the matter is that when it comes to CRPGs, the broader the target audience, the more limited and watered down the RPG will be. And must be. Because average gamers don't like to read, don't like to focus on anything beyond the visual, don't like rule set complexity, and most importantly they won't be entertained by gameplay that is designed to be more of a cerebral experience than an adrenaline rush.

 

We all want PoE to be as financially successful as possible. But there's a huge difference between wishing that the game does well, and wishing that it be designed to target the mainstream masses so that it sells a bajillion copies, like Mass Effect and Skyrim and other large-target-audience-RPGs.

 

And this is precisely why I look at this Angry Joe Preview and rejoice. He might help this game sell well despite it not being targeted/designed towards his core viewership.

 

 

OMG that must be the first time ever... that I totaly agree with stun. ****ting on someone because he LIKES the game, seriously guys.

[Mayama]

 

That's fair. In ME3 I was almost forcibly entered into a homosexual relationship with Kaiden. I thought I was just being a good bro, but then it got weird. Really weird. I've felt permanently uncomfortable ever since then.

 

 

Most rpg romances are just stupid, its the equivalent of forcing a romatic story arc in every hollywood movie. If their is no plausible reason and no real character development than do not force a romantic relationship into it.

[Lord Wafflebum]

 

 

That's fair. In ME3 I was almost forcibly entered into a homosexual relationship with Kaiden. I thought I was just being a good bro, but then it got weird. Really weird. I've felt permanently uncomfortable ever since then.

 

 

Most rpg romances are just stupid, its the equivalent of forcing a romatic story arc in every hollywood movie. If their is no plausible reason and no real character development than do not force a romantic relationship into it.

 

I agree with this. Despite being a promancer, I still think no romance > bad romance. I just like what romances add to character development.

[Yellow Rabbit]

What is your issue anyway with optional Romance arcs in RPG? I know you are passionate and vociferous in what you don't like about Romance but what is your primary reason for not wanting them ?

I have no issue with romance arcs per se even if they're not optional. Aside from the fact that they take a great deal of time and effort to make that could be better spent on other aspects of the game, they're okay. But obsessed people do freak me out, and subject of their obsession (romances in this case) automatically becomes less than sympathetic to look at.

[Namutree]

 

What's truly unacceptable is when the game steers my character into a romance without my input.

 

In the first Mass Effect, I talked to Ashley a few times. At no point during these conversations did Shepard say anything that could be interpreted as flirtatious, yet all of a sudden the game decided that we were in a relationship! Likewise, Liara suddenly decides that she finds you "fascinating" despite the fact that you've barely spoken with her. It all feels extremely forced and artificial.

 

Likewise in DA:O, I was playing as a human noble female, and I was generally nice to Alistair without moving into romantic territory. So imagine my surprise when, the next time we speak at camp, Alistair declares that he wants to spend the night with my character! She tells him "no" but everyone else in the party has banters that suggest the two of us are an item.

 

It felt like the game was nudging me constantly towards the romance, when I kept thinking "I just to want to learn more about you! I don't want to get into your pants!"

That's fair. In ME3 I was almost forcibly entered into a homosexual relationship with Kaiden. I thought I was just being a good bro, but then it got weird. Really weird. I've felt permanently uncomfortable ever since then.

 

I hate Kaiden. In ME1 I actually thank Saren for the chance to get him killed. Screw Kaiden.

[Valmy]

 

I hate Kaiden. In ME1 I actually thank Saren for the chance to get him killed. Screw Kaiden.

 

 

 

What was wrong with Kaiden?  Kaiden was my boy!  He never gave me any indication he was bisexual but you know?  I can appreciate him trying to keep our friendship strictly professional.

[Sonntam]

 

What's truly unacceptable is when the game steers my character into a romance without my input.

 

In the first Mass Effect, I talked to Ashley a few times. At no point during these conversations did Shepard say anything that could be interpreted as flirtatious, yet all of a sudden the game decided that we were in a relationship! Likewise, Liara suddenly decides that she finds you "fascinating" despite the fact that you've barely spoken with her. It all feels extremely forced and artificial.

 

Likewise in DA:O, I was playing as a human noble female, and I was generally nice to Alistair without moving into romantic territory. So imagine my surprise when, the next time we speak at camp, Alistair declares that he wants to spend the night with my character! She tells him "no" but everyone else in the party has banters that suggest the two of us are an item.

 

It felt like the game was nudging me constantly towards the romance, when I kept thinking "I just to want to learn more about you! I don't want to get into your pants!"

That's fair. In ME3 I was almost forcibly entered into a homosexual relationship with Kaiden. I thought I was just being a good bro, but then it got weird. Really weird. I've felt permanently uncomfortable ever since then.

 

In my opinion, in ME3 the romance triggers were alright. Like, yeah, Kaidan hits on you and then you tell him off and that's it.

 

Unlike first ME where Liara and Kaidan/Ashley ALWAYS hit on you and make drama. What's even better, there is a bug that if you do too many side quests after rejecting Liara... you get locked into romance with her! I rage quit after that, because I really wanted my Shepard romance absolutely no one in first ME and transfer the saves to ME2. Well, tough luck.

[Namutree]

 

 

I hate Kaiden. In ME1 I actually thank Saren for the chance to get him killed. Screw Kaiden.

 

 

 

What was wrong with Kaiden?  Kaiden was my boy!  He never gave me any indication he was bisexual but you know?  I can appreciate him trying to keep our friendship strictly professional.

 

Whats wrong with Kaiden!? Screw Kaiden and his whining about headaches; Kaiden gives me a headache. So glad I can get him killed. Him and Miranda are the bane of my existence. I hate them both! Kaiden more than Miranda, but that's a close call. Obviously I get Miranda and her insufferable essence killed during the suicide mission. Though for me it's more like the murder mission where I kill off my least favorite crew members!

[Lord Wafflebum]

 

 

 

I hate Kaiden. In ME1 I actually thank Saren for the chance to get him killed. Screw Kaiden.

 

 

 

What was wrong with Kaiden?  Kaiden was my boy!  He never gave me any indication he was bisexual but you know?  I can appreciate him trying to keep our friendship strictly professional.

 

Whats wrong with Kaiden!? Screw Kaiden and his whining about headaches; Kaiden gives me a headache. So glad I can get him killed. Him and Miranda are the bane of my existence. I hate them both! Kaiden more than Miranda, but that's a close call. Obviously I get Miranda and her insufferable essence killed during the suicide mission. Though for me it's more like the murder mission where I kill off my least favorite crew members!

 

Noooooo!! Not Miranda!!

[Emc2]

So the thread started with discussion about Angry Joe's significance in PoE's success and ended up with the conclusion that Romances are generally not done right in RPGs, but it doesn't mean game shouldn't try to make them right. I'm fine with that, it's been a while since someone posted on the latest romance thread anyway.

[Death Machine Miyagi]

So the thread started with discussion about Angry Joe's significance in PoE's success and ended up with the conclusion that Romances are generally not done right in RPGs, but it doesn't mean game shouldn't try to make them right. I'm fine with that, it's been a while since someone posted on the latest romance thread anyway.

 

Romance discussion seems to be like a virus on these forums, infecting even the most tangentially related topics. 

[Stun]

Romances are generally not done right in RPGs, but it doesn't mean game shouldn't try to make them right.

Since "trying to make them right" involves game after game being tainted by the Trial & Error process, I'm going to have to disagree.

 

I propose a policy of containment. Lets limit romances to Bioware games, and Bioware fans. And lets build a giant wall around them....no, a giant Dome/Bubble to keep the stench from blowing all the way over here to Obsidian.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Stun

[Lord Wafflebum]

 

So the thread started with discussion about Angry Joe's significance in PoE's success and ended up with the conclusion that Romances are generally not done right in RPGs, but it doesn't mean game shouldn't try to make them right. I'm fine with that, it's been a while since someone posted on the latest romance thread anyway.

 

Romance discussion seems to be like a virus on these forums, infecting even the most tangentially related topics. 

 

Whaaaa? Say it isn't so! What kind of irresponsible person would keep doing that!?

 

(Also, it's getting progressively more difficult to find comments to latch romance discussions onto)

[Stun]

(Also, it's getting progressively more difficult to find comments to latch romance discussions onto)

Interesting you should say that. We've had quite a few thread discussions about PoE's Engagement mechanic. Yet not once has Bruce come to those threads to propose such a system for romances.

 

I am disappoint, as they say.

[Death Machine Miyagi]

Since "trying to make them right" involves game after game being tainted by the Trial & Error process, I'm going to have to disagree.

 

I'm not sure it's much better to just say 'games can never do this right, so let's never try.' The gaming industry has enough spineless people recycling the same thing over and over and afraid to try new things as it is.

[Lephys]

That's a terrible analogy (not to mention a geometric falsehood). A line can stretch infinitely. A triangle can't.

Sure it can. If two points can be undefined/infinite (the two "ends" of a line), then so can 3. It's not like math says "Oh, now wait a minute! There's more than 2 of you? Well, then you're finite. Sorry, u_u..."

 

Silly person, you.

 

 

In the context of these debates that spring up on this forum, there's never 3 sides. There's only 2 sides. People like you just publically sit on the fence in between and sometimes take thinly veiled pot shots at one of the sides. Oh how I take great pleasure in pushing fence sitters off the fence.

 

Hahaha. Man I love you, Stun.

 

You're right. There are two types of people, in a way. Narrow-minded people, and broadminded people. Your "only two sides" is only true within the narrow-minded people, because they can only see something as, overall, positive or negative. The broad-minded people look at its parts and evaluate it, and realize that, sometimes, there's only so much of the "truth" of the matter we can deduce, and the rest is just fun "compare and contrast perspectives and preferences."

 

Besides... according to you, the fence stretches a lot farther than the single point on either side of it.

Edited March 2, 2015 by Lephys

[Kal Adan]

It's good that Angry Joe took note of Pillars of Eternity.

 

He has very... american style of reviewing his games. By that I mean his videos are very entertaining, even when game is pretty bad. It's a show, one worth of watching. He is loud and swears a lot. But he is very honest too and backs up his opinion with a lot of video material. He uses scoring system in a meaningful way (unlike most people). If game will be good in his eyes, then Obisidian will get free marketing as he has a lot of followers who do trust Joe to be clean when it comes to describing games.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Kal Adan

[NightmareBeta]

I like AngryJoes reviews, I found them to be correct in almost all cases so far and it will be a good boost for Pillars of Eternity if he reviews it favourably.

[Zwiebelchen]

AngryJoe has always been a supporter of vintage game ideas. Check out for example his review of XCOM: Enemy Unknown. I'm not surprised that he likes where PoE is heading. I've always been a fan of his reviews and the dedication he is putting into making them. Lots of material, good discussions, great production (check for example the intro song for his review of South Park: Stick of Truth).

 

I'm curious to see what Yahtzee from ZeroPunctuation thinks of PoE, though he usually only reviews console games, so I don't have high hopes that he will actually notice it.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Zwiebelchen