The consequences of political correctness

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

If the current behavior is any indication, it's quite likely they stick to PoE forums.

Hope so, not that it'll matter much with the new ideas on making this a 'safe space' or whatever the invented terminology is. Hey, this means oby might get banned - I guess Walshingam may climax if that comes to pass

 

If we get "safe spaces", does that mean promancers will finally be told to get out?

[Malcador]

Nah, they are fun to argue with. Forum is dull unless you can have fights.

[Zoraptor]

Sorry if I offended you, but I thought it was necessary!

 

In all seriousness, I think I've been offended about twice in 21 years on the internet, though I may have professed to be so at people insulting my eHonour on occasion. And never here, even during rigorous debate on climate change.

 

Well, it's probably a bit difficult to explain well, but I'll have a go.

 

It is, of course, a fuzzily defined idea, and I'd freely admit the phrase I use is effectively a cop out due to that, but it's the best I can do for something that will always be doubly subjective: my guess of people's potential offence vs their actual beliefs; there cannot be hard rules on that. In the end the implementation of it is pretty simple, I weigh potential for offence against post value and try to maintain a balance between the two. If I think a particularly worthwhile post is also offensive I'll usually try and remove as much offence as possible, but in the end it is a balance. That process I see as essentially good manners and a matter of good faith.

 

So, as a semi topical example I wouldn't post a Muhammad cartoon personally, despite believing that others have the right to, because I consider it is unnecessary and it is clear muslims find it offensive whether or not I do- and any point you can make by using it you can make without using it. Utterly subjective, based on my opinion, arguably PC- I don't really care, it's my view and I regard it as... dunno really, again good manners and good faith probably covers it. I have no problem with me voluntarily moderating my free speech because of something I believe.

 

I've never been for all out freedom of speech as a goal in and of itself, ie saying whatever you want whenever you want to with full free speech protection for anything, and practically nobody is. Anything that causes objective damage to another- libel, or in the broader sense insisting you can smoke in non smoking areas- well, you're inflicting more than just your views on someone in those cases. It's the subjective damage which is always the question. It may be hubris but in the end I have to use my judgement on it as I hope everyone would. I also regard it as fundamentally reciprocal, neither I nor anyone else should censor others based on simple feelings.

 

When it comes right down to it there are tools to allow people to ignore content they do not like beyond merely banning it outright- ignoring users or simply not opening threads. The alternative is like deciding the radio may only play elevator muzak because it's inoffensive and some people don't like the occasional heavy metal song, or country, or Bieber or whatever, when they can turn the volume down or switch to another channel. Not a perfect analogy of course, but the gist is there.

[BruceVC]

 

Some things just don't need a debate.

example?

 

The GG thread is a good example of this, it was fine and interesting in the  beginning but then it just never ended and there were more than enough examples of people in that thread displaying outrage over issues that really weren't issues. This is in turn lead to a constant and subtle perception of sexism and dislike of anything related to feminism. Granted not everyone demonstrated this view on that thread but enough people did where the end result was most people just didn't feel comfortable going to that thread to discuss topics related to GG

[Malcador]

Seems people went there to discuss it perfectly fine or just pop in to snipe at others and then leave. Or are you continuing your joke that you went there to discuss it.

[BruceVC]

Seems people went there to discuss it perfectly fine or just pop in to snipe at others and then leave. Or are you continuing your joke that you went there to discuss it.

 

You constantly seen to  think less of me or doubt my posting intentions

 

I went to the GG thread to discuss the GG movement, yes I didn't agree with most of it but there were some valid points raised. I didn't think it was correct the CNN assessment of GG and I raised that. I also didn't like the fact that certain elements of anti-GG were also sexist and dismissive of women who supported GG, like the criticism of  that porn star. She raised some very valid points about the right of women to work in the porn industry and all the good they did to help disenfranchised women...yet her money wasn't good enough for some and she was criticised for her endeavors to help other women. I thought this was wrong and I unequivocally stated that  

 

So I'm not sure why you think I kept trying to snipe at people, disagreeing with people and stating that disagreement is not sniping...its called debate 

[Meshugger]

Well, this has gone predictably.  And sadly. 

 

While I appreciate Al2O3's efforts to fight the usual suspects turning this subforum into a ridiculous social-reactionary echo chamber, it's probably best to leave this to the Dragon at this point.  They're taking out the trash in anticipation of Eternity's release-- can't have all the new folks who are likely to start stopping by here thinking that Obsidian is happy with this kind of silly advocacy going on here. 

 

You are seing patterns here that i haven't yet detected. What elements constitutes as social-reactionary in this sub-forum?

[Meshugger]

 

Well, this has gone predictably.  And sadly. 

 

While I appreciate Al2O3's efforts to fight the usual suspects turning this subforum into a ridiculous social-reactionary echo chamber, it's probably best to leave this to the Dragon at this point.  They're taking out the trash in anticipation of Eternity's release-- can't have all the new folks who are likely to start stopping by here thinking that Obsidian is happy with this kind of silly advocacy going on here. 

we were a second or two away from making an on-topic post in this thread, but common sense, inexplicably, took a hold o' us. the bat-crap crazies is even more stubborn than is Gromnir, so we decided the best way to win this fight were to avoid it altogether.  

 

the release o' poe will create a new kinda board havoc for a considerable period o' time, but at least it will be chaos related to games.  sadly, the "usual suspects" will not starve in the absence o' plentiful fodder. they will hibernate, feeding on their own stored rage until poe is forgotten or until the next major world crisis hits.  we hear that snails can hibernate for years.  some similarly tedious obsidian posters is very snail-like... angry snails... angry and bat-crap crazy snails. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

I find this post offensive on the behalf of people i do not know and whose sensibilities that i cannot possibly feel. Calling people bat-crap snails is quite problematic and in my opinion, zoophobic. This kind of trolling behaviour is not acceptable by any means and your post have been reported.

 

Expect a displinary warning for a lack of tolerance and self tone-policing.

 

 

[kirottu]

I think political correctness is like cleanliness; good to certain extent. Too much cleanliness and people get allergies. Totally everyday stuff makes their immune systems to react way too big, violently even. Same thing happens with political correctness and different ideas, people simply get more and more offended by people who think differently.

 

The difference is that people have started to tone down cleanliness, where the cure for people getting offended by little things is simply more political correctness.

[Oerwinde]

The superiority of my undergarments to anyone else's. (They're green and say ninja turtles.)

 

Evidence has been mounting, but its now official. You are my favorite person on this forum.

[Guard Dog]

Nah, they are fun to argue with. Forum is dull unless you can have fights.

We didn't just have fights here, we used fight wars here. It has definitely cooled towards the boring side of the meter. But the truth is among the regulars everyone knows everyone's politics and we're all so stubborn it's impossible to change anyone's mind so why bother? 

[Meshugger]

 

Nah, they are fun to argue with. Forum is dull unless you can have fights.

We didn't just have fights here, we used fight wars here. It has definitely cooled towards the boring side of the meter. But the truth is among the regulars everyone knows everyone's politics and we're all so stubborn it's impossible to change anyone's mind so why bother? 

 

 

Not true. I used to be left wing, but i have turned more rightwing (as in more libertanian) through the years here. You (and taks, wherever he is) can pat yourself on the back for that

[Guard Dog]

Ah you always had it in you. We just encouraged you to let it out!

[Blarghagh]

Interesting how people are so sure the GG thread got closed because people complained. It's not our policy to discuss decisions in public, but I can tell you guys that ain't why. That kind of witch-hunt mentality also bothers me - if you guys want someone to blame, blame me. As the only moderator who participated in that thread and the only moderator who is mostly pro-GG my input was the deciding factor and I supported the time out. Also, note that word use. A time-out isn't an allround topic ban. Leave it lie for now, but that doesn't mean it'll stay off-limits forever.

 

Also, I laughed out loud at Enoch's suggestion that we were cleaning up for the PoE crowd. I believe the influx of new members when the beta backer began was dubbed as "uninspiring" by the same people who complain about this reactionary echo-chamber. I also wonder how it became an echo chamber. Could it have been sentiments such as "this 4chan topic is maybe a little bit tangentially related to GamerGate! Keep that where it belongs so I don't have to look at it!"? I suppose people on both sides of the spectrum could ask themselves if that entrenchment and side-picking was a factor in the decision instead of blaming "the other side", but I highly doubt people will.

 

 

The superiority of my undergarments to anyone else's. (They're green and say ninja turtles.)

 

So, so true. If they're boxers. If they're tighty-greenies ... still cool. TMNT!

 

Boxers.

 

 

If the current behavior is any indication, it's quite likely they stick to PoE forums.

Hope so, not that it'll matter much with the new ideas on making this a 'safe space' or whatever the invented terminology is. Hey, this means oby might get banned - I guess Walshingam may climax if that comes to pass

 

What new ideas? People are acting like this forum has suddenly taken a turn. A couple of years ago, I posted TISM's music video to "everyone else has had more sex than me", a music video where a cute cartoon bunny sings funny lyrics while dancing. It was deemed inappropriate and removed. You guys think you have less freedom these days? You guys crack me up. Nostalgia filter in action.

 

Also, when do we ban anyone? Seriously. I don't think anyone other than spammers has been banned in... I don't know, since way before I joined the team. Are we really so stifling to your freedoms?

 

If we get "safe spaces", does that mean promancers will finally be told to get out?

 

Geeze, isn't it enough that they're contained?

 

 

The superiority of my undergarments to anyone else's. (They're green and say ninja turtles.)

Evidence has been mounting, but its now official. You are my favorite person on this forum.

 

I love you too, man. Want to go see Fifty Shades of Grey together? *has no idea how to respond to compliments*

[Nonek]

Personally I don't find my courtesy or etiquette in any way related to being politically correct, in fact the modern trends of political correctness sometimes seem counter productive to good manners and respect for ones fellow man or woman.

[kirottu]

Nice try TrueNeutral, but I always blame Fio. Always.

[Malcador]

 

 

Nah, they are fun to argue with. Forum is dull unless you can have fights.

We didn't just have fights here, we used fight wars here. It has definitely cooled towards the boring side of the meter. But the truth is among the regulars everyone knows everyone's politics and we're all so stubborn it's impossible to change anyone's mind so why bother?

Hey, there does not need a chance of victory for a fight to be fun

[BruceVC]

Personally I don't find my courtesy or etiquette in any way related to being politically correct, in fact the modern trends of political correctness sometimes seem counter productive to good manners and respect for ones fellow man or woman.

 

Oh no need to worry about that Nonek, as someone who has had several debates with you I can assure you can be quite rude and dismissive at times  and since you don't believe in political correctness its obviously got nothing to do with that. So bad manners and poor posting etiquette are definitely not just related to people who believe in political correctness 

[Nonek]

Moi rude and dismissive? Surely only of that and those which deserve to be dismissed rudely.

[Marcvs Caesar]

I consider political correctness offensive.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Marcvs Caesar

[Meshugger]

Now, now. Lets not get personal about who is dismissive or who is rude to whom.

 

The only way to settle this is by mud-wrestling. Naked. The first one refusing to take part is declared as fairy fruitcake gay-person. I will wrestle LadyCrimson.

[Gorth]

I consider political correctness offensive.

Is that better or worse when being offensive is considered politically correct?

 

...

 

Oh man, that was deep thoughts. Too much coffee again.

[BruceVC]

 

I consider political correctness offensive.

Is that better or worse when being offensive is considered politically correct?

 

...

 

Oh man, that was deep thoughts. Too much coffee again.

 

 

You funny

Edited February 18, 2015 by BruceVC

[Malcador]

You constantly seen to  think less of me or doubt my posting intentions

 

I went to the GG thread to discuss the GG movement, yes I didn't agree with most of it but there were some valid points raised. I didn't think it was correct the CNN assessment of GG and I raised that. I also didn't like the fact that certain elements of anti-GG were also sexist and dismissive of women who supported GG, like the criticism of  that porn star. She raised some very valid points about the right of women to work in the porn industry and all the good they did to help disenfranchised women...yet her money wasn't good enough for some and she was criticised for her endeavors to help other women. I thought this was wrong and I unequivocally stated that  

 

So I'm not sure why you think I kept trying to snipe at people, disagreeing with people and stating that disagreement is not sniping...its called debate 

Well you flounced out of that thread several times after just stoking things up, so does seem like you were just trolling the thread with your silly act. Which is fine really, just don't pretend it was anything more than that - I highly doubt someone like you would ever be won over or something to make your purpose in there for something more lofty.

Edited February 18, 2015 by Malcador

[Malcador]

What new ideas? People are acting like this forum has suddenly taken a turn. A couple of years ago, I posted TISM's music video to "everyone else has had more sex than me", a music video where a cute cartoon bunny sings funny lyrics while dancing. It was deemed inappropriate and removed. You guys think you have less freedom these days? You guys crack me up. Nostalgia filter in action.

 

Also, when do we ban anyone? Seriously. I don't think anyone other than spammers has been banned in... I don't know, since way before I joined the team. Are we really so stifling to your freedoms?

Well, Fionavar's latest postings is what I was referring to, as it does seem like something new enough to warrant an announcement. Not that there's less freedom or what ever you'd wish to call it - I have a funny feeling on how long that time out is going to be and what the ultimate desire behind it was. But no matter really, moderators are a wall to speak to so to speak.