Journalism and sexism in the games industry

[Namutree]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/editorials/reviews/12957-Turtle-Rock-Studios-Evolve-Review

 

Apparently The Escapist is able to disclose financial ties in reviews.

 

This is good

[Ineth]

EDIT: 1 more thing. Trolling has NOTHING to do with attempting to silence people. It's just them being jerks for laughs.

 

It used to mean exclusively that, and still does in many online geek communities/subcultures.

 

But the mainstream media have carelessly expanded the usage of the term to include pretty much any annoying or critical or unwanted or abusive online comments, no matter what the motivation and context, and no matter whether they're benign or criminal or anywhere in between.

 

And of course the feminist culture warriors have quickly capitalized on this semantic confusion by using the term to label anyone who dares to respond to or disagree with any of their their public statements online, no matter how polite and well-reasoned and context-appropriate the response is.

 

But of course when one of them*cough*McIntosh*cough* publishes purposefully bigoted and inflammatory tweets just to rile people up and then publicly brags about doing do, they don't see that as trolling - in a (typical for them) Orwellian reversal, they call it "troll baiting" and consider it a heroic deed.

[Ineth]

That supposed troll doesn't exist.

 

GG has been digging - no trace of his existence can be found. At least not under the names given in that article.

 

Well if used a throwaway twitter account and then deleted it, what were they expecting to find?

[Zoraptor]

But of course when one of them*cough*McIntosh*cough* publishes purposefully bigoted and inflammatory tweets just to rile people up and then publicly brags about doing do, they don't see that as trolling - in a (typical for them) Orwellian reversal, they call it "troll baiting" and consider it a heroic deed.

 

 

It's a lot more than one of them- a certain, er, revolutionary indie dev made sockpuppet troll accounts to make GG look bad, for example- though the excuse is always the same (with minor tonal variations) when caught out.

 

About 90% of the time 'trolling' is trolling under the standard subjective definition of people who cannot handle others having differing opinions: I post thought provoking stuff without being overly concerned if it offends or gets negative responses so as to Make Valid Points; people I disagree with are all just trolling and doing it because they're ignorant, stupid or malign.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Zoraptor

[Fighter]

Games journalism:

 

Here's my personal hilarious Polygon story:

While being interviewed about a game we were working on by another publication, one of the developers answered a question about what was more difficult, coming up with ideas or executing them. The dev answered that we have tons of ideas, so many in fact, that they would be enough to fill three games in a series and that we keep the some of the best ones that we don't have time for or can't get working properly in the back of our minds for future use.

Well, that publication didn't write up the interview verbatim, they wrote it into a paragraph style story where the author "summed up" the answer the dev gave as "They say they have a ton of ideas. Enough in fact to make <unreleased game> into a trilogy!".

Polygon then took that snippet from the middle of the article as a headline: "<Unreleased Game> To Be A Trilogy!"

The best part? That Polygon article is cited on our wikipedia page saying that our game is going to be a trilogy (which is false and misleading). I went in to change it myself and the changes were reverted saying that they only use printed, verified sources. So even though we are making the game, there's nothing we can do to change the misleading information on our wiki page. So thanks Polygon.

 

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=151206494&postcount=164

[Longknife]

https://archive.today/DSJYF

 

 

These people are ****ing bottom feeders.

[Zoraptor]

The best part? That Polygon article is cited on our wikipedia page saying that our game is going to be a trilogy (which is false and misleading). I went in to change it myself and the changes were reverted saying that they only use printed, verified sources. So even though we are making the game, there's nothing we can do to change the misleading information on our wiki page. So thanks Polygon.

 

That's been a problem with Wikipedia for ages. I tried to change the System Shock 2 page once to remove the "EA is going to make System Shock 3!" part of it since I know perfectly well that the "System Shock 3" EA was making was actually Dead Space- same genre, made by the rumoured team etc etc. Can't do it, a (at that time) 4 year old (speculation/ rumour) article from a 'reliable source' trumps anything and everything including primary sources (copyright/ USPTO) proving EA no longer had rights to the games or franchise- because the copyright and trademark databases are primary sources/ it's original research.

 

So, until someone writes an actual citable article saying that EA is not making System Shock 3 the reference has to stay there, even eight (!) years after the original, speculative, articles were written.

 

(Not C&VG's fault in this case though, everyone heard the rumours they reported. Just another example of how stupid wiki's blanket secondary trumps primary source idea is. And to be fair the wiki admin who reverted it certainly sounded rather embarrassed about doing it, but do it he did)

 

Edit: and having checked they actually say in the article that EA doesn't own the IP now, having found a citable source. Somehow that still ain't enough to remove the "EA is making SS3" rubbish though.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Zoraptor

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

^That's a major part of why I don't use Wikipedia.

 

I think this is relevant to "reliable sources", even though it is an opinion:

[BruceVC]

 

I don't know guys but I would be concerned with my moral compass if I read an article like that and didn't feel anything? I'm not sure how you can read something like that and at least not empathize with her suffering, I'm not sure what I found more sad her life of constant internet abuse, the way she is forced to accept it or the way her dead father was used to hurt her?

 

Maybe you guys have just become too cynical and you can't relate to anything that is not relevant to what annoys you or you support?

Why does this become a value judgement?

 

Do you criticize people if they don't cry enough at funerals?

 

 

Wow, talk about a strawman. I am not talking about how people should behave or show emotion at funerals. I am merely surprised about the lack of support from some  people in this thread  for the situation of this women and how she has been the victim of severe internet abuse. Thats all, no need to read too much into what I'm saying

 

There is this view that you can't expect people to show empathy  for people that they don't know, in other words " its a stranger, why should we care "  yet this whole thread is full of links and examples of people we don't know who have  suffered due to their support of GG. And there is constant outrage and condemnation for how these people have been victims of abuse from various anti-GG groups 

 

So whats the difference? Why is this support and empathy  for strangers seemingly selective. To me its obvious, this woman is vocal in her articles around how women are mistreated and constantly raises the issue of abuse of women on the Internet in different ways. She is very supportive of the feminist agenda and because that is considered something " bad " in this thread thats the reason why people don't want to recognise her own personal story of Internet abuse

 

And the funny thing is the point of her article is not to  highlight how she is a victim of abuse but rather how she forgave the person who subjected her to the worst abuse she received.

 

So I question if people actually even read the article before saying things like " nah, this article doesn't resonate with me "

 

Is it too much to ask that we at least recognize the significance of someone showing that type of forgiveness considering how she was made to feel by the troll? That is also  why this article should be seen as important and relevant.

 

[Malcador]

Yeah, I don't really care because she's a feminist of some note, rather than her just being some stranger online who could just be making this crap up. I recognized the story, I just didn't find it interesting at all to read about some troll that had an epiphany and apologized to the person he was harassing.

 

Also, get off it, you write "I don't know guys but I would be concerned with my moral compass if I read an article like that and didn't feel anything?" and then deny you're trying to judge people over that ?

[BruceVC]

Yeah, I don't really care because she's a feminist of some note, rather than her just being some stranger online who could just be making this crap up. I recognized the story, I just didn't find it interesting at all to read about some troll that had an epiphany and apologized to the person he was harassing.

 

Also, get off it, you write "I don't know guys but I would be concerned with my moral compass if I read an article like that and didn't feel anything?" and then deny you're trying to judge people over that ?

 

Fair enough,  maybe my choice of words contributed towards the lack of response I was expecting. I'll be aware of that for next time

[Amentep]

 

 

I don't know guys but I would be concerned with my moral compass if I read an article like that and didn't feel anything? I'm not sure how you can read something like that and at least not empathize with her suffering, I'm not sure what I found more sad her life of constant internet abuse, the way she is forced to accept it or the way her dead father was used to hurt her?

 

Maybe you guys have just become too cynical and you can't relate to anything that is not relevant to what annoys you or you support?

Why does this become a value judgement?

 

Do you criticize people if they don't cry enough at funerals?

 

 

Wow, talk about a strawman. I am not talking about how people should behave or show emotion at funerals.

 

No, you aren't. But you are telling people how they should behavie and show emotion (because you complained they didn't show enough emotion to a story you felt they should be emotional about.

 

 

There is this view that you can't expect people to show empathy

I'd argue you can't expect people to show empathy the same way you (or I) do.

 

"its a stranger, why should we care"

I'll take a quote from the Doctor Who, "The Tenth Planet" here:

 

Polly: But don't you care?

Krail: Care? No, why should I care?

Polly: Because they're people and they're going to die!

Krail: I do not understand you, there are people dying all over your world, yet you do not care about them.

 

This dialogue is actually acutely aware of human nature, and that is that we can't really undersand the scope of very large numbers. Polly represents human compassion - the desire to help the hurt that you know of while the Cyberman correctly points out that as you help that one person there are dozens more in the same situation.

 

The truth of this ladies situation is that it isn't unique but while I read that article there were other people being bullied. And not by just by random people, but by peers, by collegues, by parents or children. I empathise, but there's only so many fights one person can fight at a time.

 

yet this whole thread is full of links and examples of people we don't know who have  suffered due to their support of GG. And there is constant outrage and condemnation for how these people have been victims of abuse from various anti-GG groups 

 

So whats the difference? Why is this support and empathy  for strangers seemingly selective.

(a) because it is always selective

(b) because this thread is about Gamergate and anti-Gamergate and not the larger problem of non-Gamergate related bullying. Which is enormous, particularly with anonymous, disposable identities on the internet.

© because the anti-Gamergate group seems to condemn harrasment by Gamergaters but support harrasment of Gamergaters

 

Is it too much to ask that we at least recognize the significance of someone showing that type of forgiveness considering how she was made to feel by the troll? That is also  why this article should be seen as important and relevant.

It may be to the larger issue of cyberbullying. It seems relatively unrelated to Gamergate, however, and you made no effort to make a connection.

 

Are you saying the #NotYourShield guy who lost his job because people harrassed his work after he was doxxed and an organized harrassment campaign was created should forgive those who got him fired?

 

Are you saying that, say, Anita Sarkeesian and Briana Wu should forgive the people who harrassed them rather than continuing to use this harrassment as a way to tar anyone who disagrees with them by lumping them into the same group?

 

Are you saying that anti-Gamergaters and Gamergaters should forgive each other for the harrassment that people who may not even be affiliated with their movements have done?

 

Should Gamers everywhere forgive those who lept to say they were worse than ISIS and needed to all die (or worse be killed actively)?

 

^That's a major part of why I don't use Wikipedia.

I tried to add some details about a place I went to school (particularly, some of the famous people who went there before, during and after I was there) but because I don't have a way to refrence it, its not credible.

 

But if I did an internet article "The Famous People Who Went to [school]" then I could quote that as a source in the wikipedia article. 'Tis silly.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Amentep

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

You know how a large percentage of aGGros seem to be from San Francisco? Turns out there may be something in the water.

 

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2015/02/09/san-francisco-water-manager-faces-suspension-after-seen-urinating-in-reservoir/

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

https://archive.today/HRcWp

 

Get to work anons.

[Meshugger]

Eurogamer updates reviewing policy, removes scores entirely. Thanks Obama! GamerGate! 

 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-02-10-eurogamer-has-dropped-review-scores

Edited February 10, 2015 by Meshugger

[Fighter]

Now you just watch Metacritic interpret avoid - nothing - recommended - essential into 0-100%.

[Blarghagh]

https://archive.today/HRcWp

 

Get to work anons.

 

Huh, I did check Kotaku myself, even turned my adblock off. Nothing. Did they seriously run out of advertisers?

 

Of course, the moment I checked there was also an article about how Marvel has to kill off Peter Parker in the movies and make Spider-man a black guy now that they have limited rights to the character back. It's like a parody now.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

https://archive.today/HRcWp

 

Get to work anons.

 

Huh, I did check Kotaku myself, even turned my adblock off. Nothing. Did they seriously run out of advertisers?

 

Of course, the moment I checked there was also an article about how Marvel has to kill off Peter Parker in the movies and make Spider-man a black guy now that they have limited rights to the character back. It's like a parody now.

 

It's been that way for a while. Apparently the new Netflix Zelda should feature Link and Zelda as a lesbian couple.

[kirottu]

Burn Gawker burn!!1

[Blarghagh]

 

 

https://archive.today/HRcWp

 

Get to work anons.

 

Huh, I did check Kotaku myself, even turned my adblock off. Nothing. Did they seriously run out of advertisers?

 

Of course, the moment I checked there was also an article about how Marvel has to kill off Peter Parker in the movies and make Spider-man a black guy now that they have limited rights to the character back. It's like a parody now.

 

It's been that way for a while. Apparently the new Netflix Zelda should feature Link and Zelda as a lesbian couple.

 

 

Honestly, all that fan art I've been seeing of female Link is a lot more interesting than the games have been since, well... The Adventure of Link on the NES, so hey, power to them.

[Longknife]

 

 

 

https://archive.today/HRcWp

 

Get to work anons.

 

Huh, I did check Kotaku myself, even turned my adblock off. Nothing. Did they seriously run out of advertisers?

 

Of course, the moment I checked there was also an article about how Marvel has to kill off Peter Parker in the movies and make Spider-man a black guy now that they have limited rights to the character back. It's like a parody now.

 

It's been that way for a while. Apparently the new Netflix Zelda should feature Link and Zelda as a lesbian couple.

 

 

Honestly, all that fan art I've been seeing of female Link is a lot more interesting than the games have been since, well... The Adventure of Link on the NES, so hey, power to them.

 

 

Majora's Mask was an absolute masterpiece, you are just gay.

[Blarghagh]

Ocarina of Time was better and even that was just okay. I swear Legend of Zelda is the most overrated thing in games history. Except maybe Final Fantasy.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

 

 

https://archive.today/HRcWp

Get to work anons.

 

 

Huh, I did check Kotaku myself, even turned my adblock off. Nothing. Did they seriously run out of advertisers?

 

Of course, the moment I checked there was also an article about how Marvel has to kill off Peter Parker in the movies and make Spider-man a black guy now that they have limited rights to the character back. It's like a parody now.

It's been that way for a while. Apparently the new Netflix Zelda should feature Link and Zelda as a lesbian couple.

 

Honestly, all that fan art I've been seeing of female Link is a lot more interesting than the games have been since, well... The Adventure of Link on the NES, so hey, power to them.

 

Majora's Mask was an absolute masterpiece, you are just gay.

Majora's mask was bad, you don't have a leg to stand on.

[Zoraptor]

Huh, I did check Kotaku myself, even turned my adblock off. Nothing. Did they seriously run out of advertisers?

 

 

Would be nice if Coke put the money that was set aside for the twitter stuff that Gawker sabotaged towards a bit of pay back. While I don't have a problem with mass email campaigns they are very easy to rationalise away if you want to- otoh a few emails from someone at Coke- or their advertising agency- with their contacts could make things very difficult for Gawker almost instantly. If they wanted to.

[Namutree]

Ocarina of Time was better and even that was just okay. I swear Legend of Zelda is the most overrated thing in games history. Except maybe Final Fantasy.

I agree with your take on Ocarina of Time. Wind Waker is probably the only good 3D Zelda. Link to the past and the Oracle games are pretty darn good though.