Journalism and sexism in the games industry

Meshugger · February 7, 2015

When i think i trolls, i navigate to http://8ch.net/ and then check the /cow/ and /baphomet/-boards. From my perspective of things, /cow/ actively seeks out e-celebs and give them attention enough to make the victim make a fool of themselves and "milk" them until they get bored. Look into Peter Coffin and his doll girlfriend for more info.

/baphomet/ on the other hand actively seeks to destroy people they do not like. For instance, someone finds a mormon that officially hates gays. The victim gets doxxed, they find his or hers relatives and send them "i am concerned about his gay behaviour"-mails, order subcriptions to various gay maganizes to his company adress, they create fake twitter accounts and spam them about this guys behaviour, create entries about him in encyclopedia dramatica and link them on facebook for his friends. The "fun" part comes from the guys meltdown. Then they move on.

Both boards do not like each due these, uh, philosophical differences. They think that GG is a bunch of "moralfags" and have attacked several pro-GG people as well (like Lo-Ping) and almost every other board on 8chan hates or avoids them.

Just my 2 cents.

Malcador · February 7, 2015

What was interesting about that ? Just the usual "bullies are mean to make up for $shortcoming" yarn.

I thought the reformed troll aspect was interesting. Granted it could be entirely made up, but the idea that there was a rock bottom where said troll realized they had a problem presents an interesting parallel to other kinds of abuse.

Heh, almost sense a really backhanded shot here. But good that he had some epiphany and gave her an ego boosting apology.

I suppose this new class of troll (where it's harassment rather than winding up) have that issue.

PK htiw klaw eriF · February 7, 2015

When i think i trolls, i navigate to http://8ch.net/ and then check the /cow/ and /baphomet/-boards. From my perspective of things, /cow/ actively seeks out e-celebs and give them attention enough to make the victim make a fool of themselves and "milk" them until they get bored. Look into Peter Coffin and his doll girlfriend for more info.

/baphomet/ on the other hand actively seeks to destroy people they do not like. For instance, someone finds a mormon that officially hates gays. The victim gets doxxed, they find his or hers relatives and send them "i am concerned about his gay behaviour"-mails, order subcriptions to various gay maganizes to his company adress, they create fake twitter accounts and spam them about this guys behaviour, create entries about him in encyclopedia dramatica and link them on facebook for his friends. The "fun" part comes from the guys meltdown. Then they move on.

Both boards do not like each due these, uh, philosophical differences. They think that GG is a bunch of "moralfags" and have attacked several pro-GG people as well (like Lo-Ping) and almost every other board on 8chan hates or avoids them.

Just my 2 cents.

Fairly accurate. /cow/ is in it for the lulz, /baph/ wants the edgelord street cred. Some of /pol/ seems to hate /gamergate/ as well, but /pol/ is....strange.

And every board hates /sp/ for some reason.

Nonek · February 7, 2015

What was interesting about that ? Just the usual "bullies are mean to make up for $shortcoming" yarn.

I thought the reformed troll aspect was interesting. Granted it could be entirely made up, but the idea that there was a rock bottom where said troll realized they had a problem presents an interesting parallel to other kinds of abuse.

I've got to admit I was not particularly grabbed by that article either, like all right thinking people here and in Gamergate such harassment is already condemned, because as moderates simply looking for game journalism that is fit for purpose for this multi billion dollar industry, ethical and consumer driven, such tactics are pointless. The harassers on the SJF side and the more traditional ones are not embraced by GG, or wanted at all. I suppose it might make people like Arthur Chu, Zoe Quinn, Ian Miles Cheong and Geordie Tait who champion harassment, censorship, doxxing etcetera and see it as a valuable, legitimate method of punishing people whom disagree with their ideology think twice, but I seriously doubt it.

BruceVC · February 7, 2015

What was interesting about that ? Just the usual "bullies are mean to make up for $shortcoming" yarn.

I thought the reformed troll aspect was interesting. Granted it could be entirely made up, but the idea that there was a rock bottom where said troll realized they had a problem presents an interesting parallel to other kinds of abuse.

Heh, almost sense a really backhanded shot here. But good that he had some epiphany and gave her an ego boosting apology.

I suppose this new class of troll (where it's harassment rather than winding up) have that issue.

What was interesting about that ? Just the usual "bullies are mean to make up for $shortcoming" yarn.

I thought the reformed troll aspect was interesting. Granted it could be entirely made up, but the idea that there was a rock bottom where said troll realized they had a problem presents an interesting parallel to other kinds of abuse.

I've got to admit I was not particularly grabbed by that article either, like all right thinking people here and in Gamergate such harassment is already condemned, because as moderates simply looking for game journalism that is fit for purpose for this multi billion dollar industry, ethical and consumer driven, such tactics are pointless. The harassers on the SJF side and the more traditional ones are not embraced by GG, or wanted at all. I suppose it might make people like Arthur Chu, Zoe Quinn, Ian Miles Cheong and Geordie Tait who champion harassment, censorship, doxxing etcetera and see it as a valuable, legitimate method of punishing people whom disagree with their ideology think twice, but I seriously doubt it.

I don't know guys but I would be concerned with my moral compass if I read an article like that and didn't feel anything? I'm not sure how you can read something like that and at least not empathize with her suffering, I'm not sure what I found more sad her life of constant internet abuse, the way she is forced to accept it or the way her dead father was used to hurt her?

Maybe you guys have just become too cynical and you can't relate to anything that is not relevant to what annoys you or you support?

Namutree · February 7, 2015

Maybe you guys have just become too cynical and you can't relate to anything that is not relevant to what annoys you or you support?

This.

Malcador · February 7, 2015

I don't know guys but I would be concerned with my moral compass if I read an article like that and didn't feel anything? I'm not sure how you can read something like that and at least not empathize with her suffering, I'm not sure what I found more sad her life of constant internet abuse, the way she is forced to accept it or the way her dead father was used to hurt her?

Maybe you guys have just become too cynical and you can't relate to anything that is not relevant to what annoys you or you support?

She's just some stranger and Something Bad happened to her, what do you want me to do exactly when I read this article ? Get upset ?

BruceVC · February 7, 2015

I don't know guys but I would be concerned with my moral compass if I read an articlike that and didn't feel anything? I'm not sure how you can read something like that and at least not empathize with her suffering, I'm not sure what I found more sad her life of constant internet abuse, the way she is forced to accept it or the way her dead father was used to hurt her?

Maybe you guys have just become too cynical and you can't relate to anything that is not relevant to what annoys you or you support?

She's just some stranger and Something Bad happened to her, what do you want me to do exactly when I read this article ? Get upset ?

Malc I understand you have a lack of empathy in certain examples but in this case we should assume the article is real and just give her the benefit of the doubt

You can do some research to confirm she is a real person but lets assume this is her life story. I am utterly puzzled that any person cannot be sad about her situation..so yes I would expect you to feel something, sorry to sound critical but sometimes I can't ignore an obvious response

Maybe its just me, it would be interesting to see what others think?

Oerwinde · February 7, 2015

Profit driven media produces sensationalist stories to get more clicks/tweets/whatever.

Well state-funded media tends to be even more unreliable and unfair when it comes to reporting news.

So if you know of a better way to fund news production than by selling it, do tell.

CBC was good until they tried competing with the major networks. More and more reliance on ads, less and less reliable reporting because they needed to up their ratings. Add funding cuts and you have even more reliance on selling sensationalist BS.

Zoraptor · February 7, 2015

What was interesting about that ? Just the usual "bullies are mean to make up for $shortcoming" yarn.

I thought the reformed troll aspect was interesting. Granted it could be entirely made up, but the idea that there was a rock bottom where said troll realized they had a problem presents an interesting parallel to other kinds of abuse.

My main problem with that article is that it's an article from The Grauniad. I don't have any trust that it (the end, mainly) is something that actually happened as opposed to something the writer wanted to happen to make a point. It is exactly the sort of 'progressive' story The Gaurdian is renowned for and reflects its editorial position; it is the equivalent of getting a 'typical immigrant' story from the Daily Mail or a 'typical leftist' story from the Daily Telegraph. It is stereotypically Guardian, almost to the point of parody and plain doesn't ring true to me at all.

To be clear, I'd certainly believe that the impersonation part of it happened, it's the moral ending that I doubt as it's a(n unironic) Stan Marsh monologue over the last twenty seconds of a South Park episode story type ending and is a bit too convenient, right down to mentioning her 'article in Jezebel'.

(I suspect most trolls do grow out of 'career trolling', I just think that the vast majority either try to forget they did it at all or don't feel ashamed but simply move on to other interests. The sort of person who has sufficient self awareness and empathy to apologise would be very unlikely to do it in the first place precisely because they have self awareness and empathy)

Bartimaeus · February 7, 2015

Malc I understand you have a lack of empathy in certain examples but in this case we should assume the article is real and just give her the benefit of the doubt

You can do some research to confirm she is a real person but lets assume this is her life story. I am utterly puzzled that any person cannot be sad about her situation..so yes I would expect you to feel something, sorry to sound critical but sometimes I can't ignore an obvious response

Maybe its just me, it would be interesting to see what others think?

Some (most?) of us don't automatically get "sad" about some random person's life each and every time we read about them. That's not to say you *shouldn't* feel empathy, but demanding others to for every situation where there's merit to do is rather insane. I felt empathy for Anne Frank when I read her entire diary, particularly already knowing how the story ended before even reading it - this doesn't guarantee I'm gonna do the same for every random article I chance upon throughout my life about something bad that happened. Pick and choose your battles.

Hey, speaking of Anne Frank, have you finished grieving for each of those 11 million individual Holocaust victims*?

*Actually, that number is just for the ones that died - there were almost certainly many more victims that suffered in a hundred other different ways, including some of the soldiers being forced to participate in the atrocity, never mind the whole World War thing...

Edited February 7, 2015 by Bartimaeus

Nonek · February 7, 2015

I don't know guys but I would be concerned with my moral compass if I read an articlike that and didn't feel anything? I'm not sure how you can read something like that and at least not empathize with her suffering, I'm not sure what I found more sad her life of constant internet abuse, the way she is forced to accept it or the way her dead father was used to hurt her?

Maybe you guys have just become too cynical and you can't relate to anything that is not relevant to what annoys you or you support?

She's just some stranger and Something Bad happened to her, what do you want me to do exactly when I read this article ? Get upset ?

Malc I understand you have a lack of empathy in certain examples but in this case we should assume the article is real and just give her the benefit of the doubt

You can do some research to confirm she is a real person but lets assume this is her life story. I am utterly puzzled that any person cannot be sad about her situation..so yes I would expect you to feel something, sorry to sound critical but sometimes I can't ignore an obvious response

Maybe its just me, it would be interesting to see what others think?

Well in my own opinion Malcador's caution is correct and proper, the veracity of the story has been in no way proven and showing scepticism is in no way a bad thing, it shows a balanced and removed from emotion perspective. Sometimes showing too much emotion over a strangers plight is a false and maybe even worrisome phenomena. Such as when say a serial abuser of sex workers, whom clearly holds women in contempts and pays for their bodies through prostitution or stripping, goes on to assume a moral attitude over others, or preaches that he cares about womens issues or is holding the moral high ground.

That kind of hypocritical person, whom says all the right things but whose actions betray his real thoughts is to me far more of a sociopath than somebody exercising a modicum of scepticism, especially from a biased opinion driven publication such as the Guardian.

Meshugger · February 7, 2015

Why do i get a slight vibe, a tingling sense so to speak, that the purpose of adding this article to this thread was nothing more than trying paint the troll blanket all over GG again? All while Mr. usual suspect subtly wants to add pressure on why people in the thread are not feeling the feels mandated by his narrative?

Because exposing fraudsters, fighting corruption and conflicts of interests simply matters less? Perhaps not as easy? Quite interesting none the less.

Nonek · February 7, 2015

It may just be a slight paranoia because we have grown used to ocassionally being labelled as trolls, sexist, racist, misogynistic, basement dwelling and French because we ask for game journalists to do their job. Certainly Mr Hurlshot seems like more of the kind of gentleman whom confronts us directly rather than makes such an inference, he has always struck me as a straightforward and open individual.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Nonek

Malcador · February 7, 2015

I don't know guys but I would be concerned with my moral compass if I read an articlike that and didn't feel anything? I'm not sure how you can read something like that and at least not empathize with her suffering, I'm not sure what I found more sad her life of constant internet abuse, the way she is forced to accept it or the way her dead father was used to hurt her?

Maybe you guys have just become too cynical and you can't relate to anything that is not relevant to what annoys you or you support?

She's just some stranger and Something Bad happened to her, what do you want me to do exactly when I read this article ? Get upset ?

Malc I understand you have a lack of empathy in certain examples but in this case we should assume the article is real and just give her the benefit of the doubt
You can do some research to confirm she is a real person but lets assume this is her life story. I am utterly puzzled that any person cannot be sad about her situation..so yes I would expect you to feel something, sorry to sound critical but sometimes I can't ignore an obvious response

Maybe its just me, it would be interesting to see what others think?

Well of course she is a real person, I doubt this is a fake person set up as part of some softy sob story on the Guardian.

But so what, really? Sucks for her to get trolled obviously but it's not as if I am reading a tale of a person who has been tortured or something horrific.

I will read it again and try to weep though.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Malcador

Zoraptor · February 7, 2015

Certainly Mr Hurlshot seems like more of the kind of gentleman whom confronts us directly rather than makes such an inference, he has always struck me as a straightforward and open individual.

Yeah, I've disagreed with Hurlshot on some things but I have no doubt at all that the disagreements were over honestly held views that were expressed, for want of a better term, honourably. I have no doubt that this is the case here as well.

Hurlshort · February 7, 2015

Why do i get a slight vibe, a tingling sense so to speak, that the purpose of adding this article to this thread was nothing more than trying paint the troll blanket all over GG again? All while Mr. usual suspect subtly wants to add pressure on why people in the thread are not feeling the feels mandated by his narrative?

Because exposing fraudsters, fighting corruption and conflicts of interests simply matters less? Perhaps not as easy? Quite interesting none the less.

That may be my fault, I read it and thought you folks might find it interesting, and I didn't know where to place it. I did not feel it merited a new thread, and given the fact this thread has addressed feminism before, I assumed it would fit well here. I haven't really kept up with this thread all that well until I posted the article, so I apologize if it came across as baiting.

Meshugger · February 8, 2015

After Pinsof told Techraptor about Phil Fish stealing code from McGrath, this happened:

Seems like there is more surrounding this clique of people.

TrashMan · February 8, 2015

That supposed troll doesn't exist.

GG has been digging - no trace of his existence can be found. At least not under the names given in that article.

Meshugger · February 9, 2015

Pinsof is still being bullied: https://twitter.com/megaspacepanda/status/563443081148510208

Another dev conformed what Pinsof claimed, only to backpedal pretty quickly:

Edited February 9, 2015 by Meshugger

Fighter · February 9, 2015

The behavior of these journalists just stinks. They lie, contradict themselves, delete evidence. So many have been caught doing it.

"People took it the wrong way"... "just a weird moment"... What...? The hell does that even mean? One could hardly come up with a more unconvincing explanation.

Amentep · February 9, 2015

I don't know guys but I would be concerned with my moral compass if I read an article like that and didn't feel anything? I'm not sure how you can read something like that and at least not empathize with her suffering, I'm not sure what I found more sad her life of constant internet abuse, the way she is forced to accept it or the way her dead father was used to hurt her?

Maybe you guys have just become too cynical and you can't relate to anything that is not relevant to what annoys you or you support?

Why does this become a value judgement?

Do you criticize people if they don't cry enough at funerals?

Blarghagh · February 9, 2015

The ironic thing is that it shows a complete and utter lack of empathy on his part because he cannot empathise or identify with people who deal with emotions differently from how he does. He just projects his own emotions as the "correct" way and if others don't feel that way they're doing it wrong. If there's anything I learned from dealing with my own depression at the same time as my girlfriend's depression it's that people have no control over what they're feeling and shaming people for their emotions or lack thereof is extremely ridiculous.

PK htiw klaw eriF · February 9, 2015

Guys, don't engage Bruce. His sole purpose is to keep derailing this thread.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/editorials/reviews/12957-Turtle-Rock-Studios-Evolve-Review

Apparently The Escapist is able to disclose financial ties in reviews.

https://archive.today/3zSqj

Another article with no evidence saying games cause violence. Feel free to spam the information showing that violence has declined for the last 20 years.

Fighter · February 9, 2015

https://archive.today/3zSqj

Another article with no evidence saying games cause violence. Feel free to spam the information showing that violence has declined for the last 20 years.

This downright evil for suggesting real censorship.

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