cloudpm Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Hello Obsidian, I created an account on purpose because this game is what I have been waiting for years ! I've known the golden age of RPG with BG1, BG2, Planescape Torment etc... and I'm so tired of all of the tasteless stuff as Dragon Age... For me, this will probably be day one, but a few things make me worried : 1. The cities look so EMPTY : where are the PNJs like in BG ? Where are the ambient sounds ? (I'm saying this following the stream of yesterday night). 2. The character animations are too sync with each other : all of our characters in the group look the same, like clones while running, moving. It would be good just to async them or change their stand. 3. The speed is too fast : I had the impression to watch a "finish mario in 1 hour record" on youtube. The character run really fast, and what made also BG series so enjoyable was that we did not have the choice than walking (no fast traveling like in Skyrim). The game is magnificent, it would be a waste to rush all the environment like this. So please, maybe add an option to decrease the speed. Other than that, this looks like the perfect come back to golden RPG. I'm so thrilled with this game. Take your time, don't rush it, we can wait until end of March. Thank you for hearing us since the beginning, we will always be there to support you. Just deliver us a "Baldur's Gate 3". EDIT 01.21.2015 : To illustrate the topic, the latest stream video for those who missed it. www.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive/b/611493909 Here is a summary of what have been quoted so far in this thread : Of course, without considering background reasons (a ghost town is empty, this is obvious ). We are talking about immersion in cities (non-interactive or a few), but of course if you can add more life with interactive purposes, it won't be a no . Persons/animals immersion : - birds flying, cows, dogs barking running around. - peasants moving/wandering in towns with thinking bubbles, showing they're living their life. - people sitting around, selling goods, discussing about strangers etc... - kids playing/running around - etc... Environment immersion : - more dirt, garbages - taverns should be filled with people drinking, drunk, discussing - environment noise - messy tables etc... Dynamic environment : - it is discussed in another topic but random weather : rain, thunder, sands hurricane would be better (like in BG, once again). It will feel less linear instead of knowing that at a precise location, the script will activate weather effects. Overall, it was a few suggestions from what have been said but, there are tons of them. This might seems stupid but just "copy" a Baldur's Gate II in terms of immersion, and I guess 90% would be happy Again thanks for your tremendous work, in any case, we love the work you've already performed ! Edited January 21, 2015 by TrueNeutral post edit-lock request 2
MasterPrudent Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 3. For this one you should keep in mind that Josh was utlising the "fast" game speed to move his characters around (there is also a slow option - you can see him using it in some of the early dungeon fights). If that's not your bag you can pretend the option isn't there - or even disable it by simply unassigning the hotkeys associated with it if you want to be hardcore about it. 1
BlueLion Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) I agree the cities could do with a little bit more 'life'. Also, the group in Defiance Bay listening to the preacher could do with having their positions randomised a bit. They look like they are standing in a grid like formation, quite unnatural. Edited January 16, 2015 by BlueLion 1
AndreaColombo Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 2. The character animations are too sync with each other : all of our characters in the group look the same, like clones while running, moving. It would be good just to async them or change their stand. This has been reported by beta testers, and recently added to the dev's issue tracker by QA. 2 "Time is not your enemy. Forever is." — Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment "It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers." — Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses | PoE Items for Deadfire | No Recyled Icons | Soul Charged Nautilus
cloudpm Posted January 16, 2015 Author Posted January 16, 2015 Ok guys, thanks for the answers... I haven't seen the part where Josh was playing with the speed of the game. Perfect if they will also add some specific moves to the characters while standing. For now, my only concern is about the cosmectic in cities : yes, for me it was quite "shocking" : cities looked like ghost towns whereas we were used to some PNJ walking from one place to another, and talking in BG. This is the only last point that is worrying me since we are only 2 months from the release date...
Valsuelm Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Unfortunately Josh felt that the cities in BG1 and BG2 were too dense in their content.... BG1 and BG2 did cities and towns in an RPG game better than any other game I've seen before or since. It certainly would be nice however if Josh and company took feedback such as in this thread to heart before the game is released. Edited January 16, 2015 by Valsuelm
PrimeJunta Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Content density has nothing to do with the number of peasants wandering around y'know. 19 I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com
Valsuelm Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Content density has nothing to do with the number of peasants wandering around y'know. I'd consider peasants game content... Either way, it's a design mindset, and one I couldn't disagree more with. The other Obsidian RPGs already out do not have cities as dense as BG1 or BG2 in any way so it shouldn't be surprising what we're seeing given that and what Josh has stated. Again, hopefully Josh and co. take the feedback in this thread and others regarding this to heart before release.
PrimeJunta Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Suit yourself. It's not what Josh means by "content" when he says that Athkatla had a too high density of it though. 5 I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com
BlueLion Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I believe you two are having a semantic argument. The amount of 'interactive' content is at a suitable level. But, the things that create the immersion, in this case peasants, are quite low in numbers. Yes, we don't expect to be able to have full conversations with them all, but their existence would definitely increase the 'living' feeling the areas would convey. 5
Rumsteak Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I think a lot of people agree that the city parts shown in the stream felt empty. Even adding random peasants could improve things. 3
BlueLion Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I also feel that they need some of them to move. They all seem to be standing around chatting, which is great, but this needs balancing with some that are walking to some destination. Maybe a small group of kids running around laughing in areas that would fit with the lore. 1
PrimeJunta Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 FWIW I agree that it would be cool if there was more background buzz in the cities. Somebody mumbled about Unity's limitations. I'm pretty sure the cause is something like that rather than "content density." I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com
BlueLion Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Yea, I heard somewhere they are limited by memory. Hopefully they can find a way to increase the 'buzz' in relevant areas.
cloudpm Posted January 16, 2015 Author Posted January 16, 2015 Was divinity developed on unity? If yes the towns are not that empty. If Some Guy From larian studio can do it, why wouldnt obsidian ? Sorry, writing from the phone and somehow everything is messy. 2
StrangeCat Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I didn't forget about this game thanks for the email reminder! Was able to watch your video but had the sound off. I Have to say you need to make your cities come to life. *many have already stated* There are no birds around and it's by a bay. The cities look way to clean. To lifeless. I am sure through your two months of polishing and your professionalsim and experience in the gameing industry you could make the game world more alive. Impress people with the world your company has created. Great job on finishing your game! It's nice to see a project through to it's end!!! 1
GreyFox Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 (edited) Was divinity developed on unity? If yes the towns are not that empty. If Some Guy From larian studio can do it, why wouldnt obsidian ? Sorry, writing from the phone and somehow everything is messy. Agreed, Cyseal was a town well done...full of life, ambiance, and believable. No reason why Obsidian should have empty lifeless towns like that...it's boring quite frankly. They really need to take this feedback to heart and add some life to the cities...more peasant/wanderers and more ambiance. Hell they could add a GreyFox peasant who wanders around bitching bout everything! Edited January 16, 2015 by GreyFox 2
Quadrone Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Was divinity developed on unity? If yes the towns are not that empty. If Some Guy From larian studio can do it, why wouldnt obsidian ? Sorry, writing from the phone and somehow everything is messy. No, I believe it uses it's own engine. Besides it's not that they can't/don't want to but they probably have more important stuff to fix then add some extra eyecandy. Maybe they'll find some time after all, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
Valsuelm Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 They made a really bad choice when they picked an engine if they picked an engine that limits them in a way they can't populate a city to the density we saw in BG1 or BG2. That said, I very much doubt the engine is an issue.
illathid Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Just a thought, could there be a plot reason for the relative emptiness of the city spaces? In the BB there's mention of some stuff that could lead to depopulation. "Wizards do not need to be The Dudes Who Can AoE Nuke You and Gish and Take as Many Hits as a Fighter and Make all Skills Irrelevant Because Magic." -Josh Sawyer
Lephys Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Also, is it not possible that they just don't have some stuff "in" yet, but will have it in before the final release? I can't imagine you'd have that many bugs to work out with a bunch of wandering townsfolk than you would with a single wandering townsperson. Seems like a different version of the paint-over passes on the environments. Doesn't really change the function, so it can be done whenever. And, admittedly, can be left out if it's just never gotten around to because of time constraints and the rest of thew workload. 8P Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u
archangel979 Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 It is not just ambient sounds. cNPCs need more and memorable combat barks like what we had in BG games. 2
Stun Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 (edited) Josh's comment about "too much content density" in Athkatla was definitely NOT about how many NPCs were walking around in the streets. It was about the # of quests, and specifically, how it seemed that everyone in town was just waiting around for you to walk by so they could unload their problems upon you...one after another. Also can someone kindly update me on the lingo here? What exactly is a PNJ? Anyway, I'm planning on watching the stream again later, but from my first view, I didn't come out of it feeling like the parts of Defiance Bay we saw were "lifeless" or "Empty". Not at first glance at least. I did notice the glaring lack of city sounds though... that might have a lot to do with people's perceptions. But I'll watch the video again. Edited January 17, 2015 by Stun 6
Bill Gates' Son Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Unfortunately Josh felt that the cities in BG1 and BG2 were too dense in their content.... What in the heck does this have to do with the number of NPCs hanging around the town? 1
Yonjuro Posted January 17, 2015 Posted January 17, 2015 Also can someone kindly update me on the lingo here? What exactly is a PNJ? Probably NPC in Spanish. (Personaje No Jugador).
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