11 people killed at a French satirical Newspaper

[BruceVC]

Interview with random people in the neighbourhood of the Kouachi bros:

 

 

Marie-Thérèse, a teacher living on a neighbouring street, who declined to give her surname, said she had been troubled by the reluctance of teenagers in her class to observe a minute of silence the day after the Charlie Hebdo massacre.

 

“Several started shouting and one said he wished he had a Kalashnikov to kill me,” said the teacher, Marie-Thérèse, who declined to give her surname. “I work in a tough school in a tough area, but the same thing happened in other schools.”

 

Le Figaro and other newspapers reported similar behaviour in schools in several French cities, and cases of non-Muslim pupils trying to attack Muslim classmates were also reported.

“Many of the kids I teach could easily be radicalised,” Marie-Thérèse said. “This doesn’t bode well for the future of France. We’ve got to make more effort to reconcile communities.”

 

Serious question, how do you deal with kids that are ok with murder?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11338842/Paris-attacks-Two-worlds-collide-on-street-where-terrorists-lived.html

 

This article highlights a real social problem that many European countries are grappling with. In France you have groups of Muslims who don't feel part of mainstream French culture and feel alienated from French society despite several opportunities presented to them

 

There is also an effective campaign of propaganda from the likes of ISIS that resonates with many disenfranchised Muslim youth, they believe that the West is truly involved in a crusade against Islam. Even this article they talk about the anger that 60 years ago 200 Algerians were killed by French police. But during the Algerian civil war several hundred thousand Algerians were killed by extremists...where is the criticism about this violence?

 

So whats the solution? I suppose you have to work harder at getting  the message across that  France wants to integrate all its citizens into its society. But to be honest this will only work for some. Other people needed to be arrested and or killed as they won't be prepared to compromise 

 

But this anti-Western sentiment from the Muslim communities within countries like France really does only represent a small minority of the overall Muslim community so we shouldn't see this as a social crisis. Im confident most Muslims are very happy living in France and being part of French culture 

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

This article highlights a real social problem that many European countries are grappling with. In France you have groups of Muslims who don't feel part of mainstream French culture and feel alienated from French society despite several opportunities presented to them

 

There is also an effective campaign of propaganda from the likes of ISIS that resonates with many disenfranchised Muslim youth, they believe that the West is truly involved in a crusade against Islam. Even this article they talk about the anger that 60 years ago 200 Algerians were killed by French police. But during the Algerian civil war several hundred thousand Algerians were killed by extremists...where is the criticism about this violence?

 

So whats the solution? I suppose you have to work harder at getting  the message across that  France wants to integrate all its citizens into its society. But to be honest this will only work for some. Other people needed to be arrested and or killed as they won't be prepared to compromise 

 

But this anti-Western sentiment from the Muslim communities within countries like France really does only represent a small minority of the overall Muslim community so we shouldn't see this as a social crisis. Im confident most Muslims are very happy living in France and being part of French culture 

 

 

I would love to believe that

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

This article highlights a real social problem that many European countries are grappling with. In France you have groups of Muslims who don't feel part of mainstream French culture and feel alienated from French society despite several opportunities presented to them

 

There is also an effective campaign of propaganda from the likes of ISIS that resonates with many disenfranchised Muslim youth, they believe that the West is truly involved in a crusade against Islam. Even this article they talk about the anger that 60 years ago 200 Algerians were killed by French police. But during the Algerian civil war several hundred thousand Algerians were killed by extremists...where is the criticism about this violence?

 

So whats the solution? I suppose you have to work harder at getting  the message across that  France wants to integrate all its citizens into its society. But to be honest this will only work for some. Other people needed to be arrested and or killed as they won't be prepared to compromise 

 

But this anti-Western sentiment from the Muslim communities within countries like France really does only represent a small minority of the overall Muslim community so we shouldn't see this as a social crisis. Im confident most Muslims are very happy living in France and being part of French culture 

 

 

I would love to believe that

 

 

I can understand how frustrating it must seem for some European countries, all these immigrants arrive and start living off certain social services. They initially get supported by tax paying citizens of a country. Then they get jobs and start contributing towards the economy....but then you see incidents like this Paris shooting where you see all this vitriol and hatred directed towards the country that basically gave them a home and livelihood. So you almost want to say " why do we even bother letting in people who just don't appreciate what they have "

 

 

But we do live in a global world and places like the EU have fairly open borders for certain citizens so you can't really stop the movement of economic migrants..and thats what most of these immigrants are . They are looking for economic opportunities, we see this in South Africa all the time with many foreigners who come to South Africa looking for work from places like Zimbabwe and Mozambique 

 

So I still think the likes of Paris shooters represent a small part of the overall  French muslim community as we can see from the Unity march and the condemnation from almost all mainstream Muslim organisations in France 

[Meshugger]

 

Interview with random people in the neighbourhood of the Kouachi bros:

 

 

Marie-Thérèse, a teacher living on a neighbouring street, who declined to give her surname, said she had been troubled by the reluctance of teenagers in her class to observe a minute of silence the day after the Charlie Hebdo massacre.

 

“Several started shouting and one said he wished he had a Kalashnikov to kill me,” said the teacher, Marie-Thérèse, who declined to give her surname. “I work in a tough school in a tough area, but the same thing happened in other schools.”

 

Le Figaro and other newspapers reported similar behaviour in schools in several French cities, and cases of non-Muslim pupils trying to attack Muslim classmates were also reported.

“Many of the kids I teach could easily be radicalised,” Marie-Thérèse said. “This doesn’t bode well for the future of France. We’ve got to make more effort to reconcile communities.”

 

Serious question, how do you deal with kids that are ok with murder?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11338842/Paris-attacks-Two-worlds-collide-on-street-where-terrorists-lived.html

 

This article highlights a real social problem that many European countries are grappling with. In France you have groups of Muslims who don't feel part of mainstream French culture and feel alienated from French society despite several opportunities presented to them

 

There is also an effective campaign of propaganda from the likes of ISIS that resonates with many disenfranchised Muslim youth, they believe that the West is truly involved in a crusade against Islam. Even this article they talk about the anger that 60 years ago 200 Algerians were killed by French police. But during the Algerian civil war several hundred thousand Algerians were killed by extremists...where is the criticism about this violence?

 

So whats the solution? I suppose you have to work harder at getting  the message across that  France wants to integrate all its citizens into its society. But to be honest this will only work for some. Other people needed to be arrested and or killed as they won't be prepared to compromise 

 

But this anti-Western sentiment from the Muslim communities within countries like France really does only represent a small minority of the overall Muslim community so we shouldn't see this as a social crisis. Im confident most Muslims are very happy living in France and being part of French culture 

 

 

"A muslim cannot feel welcomed in a non-muslim society. If the society has the same values as islam, then the muslim will feel welcomed" <-- Arguments like that are thrown around everyday.

 

But my point is that how do you deal with neighbourhoods where people think murder is justified when insulted? How do you deal with such alienation on a such a profound level? I sure don't know.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Interview with random people in the neighbourhood of the Kouachi bros:

 

 

Marie-Thérèse, a teacher living on a neighbouring street, who declined to give her surname, said she had been troubled by the reluctance of teenagers in her class to observe a minute of silence the day after the Charlie Hebdo massacre.

 

“Several started shouting and one said he wished he had a Kalashnikov to kill me,” said the teacher, Marie-Thérèse, who declined to give her surname. “I work in a tough school in a tough area, but the same thing happened in other schools.”

 

Le Figaro and other newspapers reported similar behaviour in schools in several French cities, and cases of non-Muslim pupils trying to attack Muslim classmates were also reported.

“Many of the kids I teach could easily be radicalised,” Marie-Thérèse said. “This doesn’t bode well for the future of France. We’ve got to make more effort to reconcile communities.”

 

Serious question, how do you deal with kids that are ok with murder?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11338842/Paris-attacks-Two-worlds-collide-on-street-where-terrorists-lived.html

 

This article highlights a real social problem that many European countries are grappling with. In France you have groups of Muslims who don't feel part of mainstream French culture and feel alienated from French society despite several opportunities presented to them

 

There is also an effective campaign of propaganda from the likes of ISIS that resonates with many disenfranchised Muslim youth, they believe that the West is truly involved in a crusade against Islam. Even this article they talk about the anger that 60 years ago 200 Algerians were killed by French police. But during the Algerian civil war several hundred thousand Algerians were killed by extremists...where is the criticism about this violence?

 

So whats the solution? I suppose you have to work harder at getting  the message across that  France wants to integrate all its citizens into its society. But to be honest this will only work for some. Other people needed to be arrested and or killed as they won't be prepared to compromise 

 

But this anti-Western sentiment from the Muslim communities within countries like France really does only represent a small minority of the overall Muslim community so we shouldn't see this as a social crisis. Im confident most Muslims are very happy living in France and being part of French culture 

 

 

"A muslim cannot feel welcomed in a non-muslim society. If the society has the same values as islam, then the muslim will feel welcomed" <-- Arguments like that are thrown around everyday.

 

But my point is that how do you deal with neighbourhoods where people think murder is justified when insulted? How do you deal with such alienation on a such a profound level? I sure don't know.

 

 

Well  no Western country will ever have the same values as a country that for example is in the Middle East because Western countries are Democracies and practice freedom of speech and freedom of religion. I don't think most  Muslims expect that from Western countries, I'm sure they are aware of the difference between France and lets say Saudi Arabia ?

 

But yes if you read how that teacher was treated in that school, its very worrying and I would think the solution has to come from within the Muslim community. Its up to the parents and respected members of the Muslim community to get the message across that France is not " un-Islamic " and French society is not your enemy? But I agree its a tough one to try to  convince people who want to kill there teacher for asking people to have one minute of silence 

[Malcador]

Serious question, how do you deal with kids that are ok with murder?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11338842/Paris-attacks-Two-worlds-collide-on-street-where-terrorists-lived.html

Send them to the Legion ?

[teknoman2]

There's a mainstream tradition in Islam of taking the Koran literally, while Christianity and Judaism rationalize away things that modern morality finds objectionable. So when the Koran says "You must fight the infidel until they submit" the Jihadists take that as their marching orders. The Egyptian president has just made a very important speech on this very subject : http://www.raymondibrahim.com/from-the-arab-world/egypts-sisi-islamic-thinking-is-antagonizing-the-entire-world/ Of course Christianity went through it's own very similar period : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Bartholomew%27s_Day_massacre But that was 400 years ago!

a human becomes mature after 18-20 years. a religion becomes mature after 1800-2000 years... islam is in puberty right now 

[Azdeus]

Hope I'm not posting old news, but I might very well have missed it in all those quotepyramids.

 

https://eu2015.lv/images/news/2015_01_11_Joint_statement_of_ministers_for_interrior.pdf

 

We are concerned at the increasingly frequent use of the Internet to fuel hatred and

violence and signal our determination to ensure that the Internet is not abused to this end,

while safeguarding that it remains, in scrupulous observance of fundamental freedoms, a forum for free expression, in full respect of the law.

 

With this in mind, the partnership of the major Internet providers is essential to create the conditions of a swift reporting of material that aims to incite hatred and terror and the condition of its removing, where appropriate/possible.

 

I'm surprised it took them this long to put something like this out there.

 

This did cheer me up though;

Syria Strategic Communication Advisory Team (SSCAT)

 

They really did'nt think that one through, did they?

Edited January 12, 2015 by Azdeus

[frgo]

 

 

Enjoy your 70 virgins, brave hero.

 

Despicable.

 

So the police/state/authorities say a person(s) does X, and then executes them in cold blood in a video and you cheer?

 

 

 

 

 

I have see on TV a former officer of this french police special unit explaining that in cas of the suspect running to the assault columns, the order are to shoot to kill for the protection of the cop. The fear ? that the terrorist has an explosive belt.

You see like the cops are pressed against each other ? imagine an explosion on the middle of the column...

 

Yesterday all France was proud of its polices forces and i can say you that our police is not accustomed to being acclaimed by the crowd. I don't know how it's USA, but in France the police is often viewed with suspicion. A few month ago she was booed after the death of a young protester killed by a stun grenade of the riot police and there was a political debate on the subjet of reducing the arming of the police... Now we have police and soldier with submachine gun and we are talking of the necessity or not of a "Patriot Act"

Edited January 12, 2015 by frgo

[Hassat Hunter]

Not sure if Val is still on about the 'brothers being potentially innocent'... even after they have already been killed.

Quite a coincidence would it be if those brothers where just innocents framed, that apparently also had assault rifles and taken people hostage. What are the odds?
You tell me, since you apparently still don't believe it, so you must think the odds of that are high...

 

religious extremism can only be fought with religion. these people did what they did while welcoming death as the means to reach heaven. the only way to scare them and anyone else that may follow in their footsteps, would be to use the tenents of their faith to deny them heaven. 

for example, the police, before going after them, could have made a big show about how they soak their bullets in pig blood (contact with pigs = no heaven for muslims) even if fake. terrorizing the terrorists like a boss, and then we see how many more dare try something like that again

 

I'm sure that would wreck the havoc of all apparent 'non-violent' Islamtics. And are then used for more violence against you for being anti-Islam, used for ISIS-propeganda... you get the thing. Which IMO is a real shame since our soft West "bad boys!" approach obviously doesn't work.

 

IMO the best thing, if they go to the Middle-east to train, don't let them back in. Yes, they might have been born in your country, they have the nationality, but if it's known they are training in Jemen, or Syria or whatever just send them back there... apparently they like it there better than with us. Solves the whole 'can't send them home, since we are their home'... nope, apparently to them we're not, so why should we act like they do? Surveilance obviously doesn't work well enough, there are many returnees that are *known*(!) to be risks. Just send them all to Syria and send our regards to Assad as he hopefully kills them all...

[teknoman2]

when the only punishment a person is afraid of is not going to heaven, then that is the punishment that should be employed.

[Gromnir]

Interview with random people in the neighbourhood of the Kouachi bros:

 

 

Marie-Thérèse, a teacher living on a neighbouring street, who declined to give her surname, said she had been troubled by the reluctance of teenagers in her class to observe a minute of silence the day after the Charlie Hebdo massacre.

 

“Several started shouting and one said he wished he had a Kalashnikov to kill me,” said the teacher, Marie-Thérèse, who declined to give her surname. “I work in a tough school in a tough area, but the same thing happened in other schools.”

 

Le Figaro and other newspapers reported similar behaviour in schools in several French cities, and cases of non-Muslim pupils trying to attack Muslim classmates were also reported.

“Many of the kids I teach could easily be radicalised,” Marie-Thérèse said. “This doesn’t bode well for the future of France. We’ve got to make more effort to reconcile communities.”

 

Serious question, how do you deal with kids that are ok with murder?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11338842/Paris-attacks-Two-worlds-collide-on-street-where-terrorists-lived.html

"power corrupts. powerlessness corrupts absolutely." 

 

it is the belief o' being disenfranchised or powerless that is the key.  

 

there were an interesting experiment done in... the early 70s?  *grumble* our memory for dates is not what it should be. 1969. dagnabbit. the twisted monkey who came up with the experiment were same guy who did the prison experiment where some folks took role of guards and some had prisoner roles.  anywho, phillip zimbardo takes two cars and...

 

...

 

is easier to link so we don't misrepresent accidental.

 

http://www.zimbardo.com/downloads/powerevil.pdf

 

end of page 9 and most of 10 is the part we reference. 

 

two guys, kellig and willson, later write an essay entitled "Broken Windows".

 

is a good read if seeming a bit shallow. the zimbardo experiment would appear to be the only evidence presented, and some rather far-reaching conclusions is reached based on the limited data, but it does raise interesting questions and, surprisingly, it offers a solution... even if such a solution is based on somewhat dubious scholarship.

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/03/broken-windows/304465/

 

HA! Good Fun!

[obyknven]

His writings.

 

Charie?!

[TrashMan]

We are concerned at the increasingly frequent use of the Internet to fuel hatred and

violence and signal our determination to ensure that the Internet is not abused to this end,

while safeguarding that it remains, in scrupulous observance of fundamental freedoms, a forum for free expression, in full respect of the law.

 

With this in mind, the partnership of the major Internet providers is essential to create the conditions of a swift reporting of material that aims to incite hatred and terror and the condition of its removing, where appropriate/possible.

 

 

YAY FOR FREE SPEECH! EXCEPT WHEN I DON'T LIKE WHAT YOU SAY. WE NEED TO POLICE IT!

 

Well color me sceptical.

Shouldn't a man be allowed to hate too?

 

ADDENDUM:

It surprises me that on some level, I agree with that Gawker article.

Never tough it would happen.

 

Freedom of speech is great and I fully support it, however, I call things as I see them. Sometimes humor can be in poor taste and one really has to ask "did you really go there? Why?"

Often it seems unnecessarily hostile, or deliberately "triggering".

 

[Meshugger]

Maybe there is some hope after all: https://twitter.com/Rapsney/status/554897763105009665

[Meshugger]

 

Interview with random people in the neighbourhood of the Kouachi bros:

 

 

Marie-Thérèse, a teacher living on a neighbouring street, who declined to give her surname, said she had been troubled by the reluctance of teenagers in her class to observe a minute of silence the day after the Charlie Hebdo massacre.

 

“Several started shouting and one said he wished he had a Kalashnikov to kill me,” said the teacher, Marie-Thérèse, who declined to give her surname. “I work in a tough school in a tough area, but the same thing happened in other schools.”

 

Le Figaro and other newspapers reported similar behaviour in schools in several French cities, and cases of non-Muslim pupils trying to attack Muslim classmates were also reported.

“Many of the kids I teach could easily be radicalised,” Marie-Thérèse said. “This doesn’t bode well for the future of France. We’ve got to make more effort to reconcile communities.”

 

Serious question, how do you deal with kids that are ok with murder?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11338842/Paris-attacks-Two-worlds-collide-on-street-where-terrorists-lived.html

"power corrupts. powerlessness corrupts absolutely." 

 

it is the belief o' being disenfranchised or powerless that is the key.  

 

there were an interesting experiment done in... the early 70s?  *grumble* our memory for dates is not what it should be. 1969. dagnabbit. the twisted monkey who came up with the experiment were same guy who did the prison experiment where some folks took role of guards and some had prisoner roles.  anywho, phillip zimbardo takes two cars and...

 

...

 

is easier to link so we don't misrepresent accidental.

 

http://www.zimbardo.com/downloads/powerevil.pdf

 

end of page 9 and most of 10 is the part we reference. 

 

two guys, kellig and willson, later write an essay entitled "Broken Windows".

 

is a good read if seeming a bit shallow. the zimbardo experiment would appear to be the only evidence presented, and some rather far-reaching conclusions is reached based on the limited data, but it does raise interesting questions and, surprisingly, it offers a solution... even if such a solution is based on somewhat dubious scholarship.

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1982/03/broken-windows/304465/

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

While i find the notion of perpetual goodness paradigm admirable, it however requires a definite declaration on what is good behaviour of the individual and to extent, a group of people. This notion actually collides with the post-modern notion, found mostly in academia, that diversity has to be tolerated, even if some values of "good" differ greatly. Still though, great reading!

[BruceVC]

 

 

I can understand how frustrating it must seem for some European countries, all these immigrants arrive and start living off certain social services. They initially get supported by tax paying citizens of a country. Then they get jobs and start contributing towards the economy....

 

The problem is they don't get jobs and they don't contribute. And not only them, their descendants also. Over 95% of children that were raised in families that lived on social benefits also live on social benefits themselves. After all if they see that their parents and their social circle never worked why would it occur to them to work themselves?

 

 

Well this is a relevant point if its true because it would explain the frustration on some levels

 

Don't these immigrants work? Surly they can't just live off social services indefinitely?

Edited January 13, 2015 by BruceVC

[pmp10]

Don't these immigrants work? Surly they can't just live off social services indefinitely?

They do work but predictably they are discriminated in the job market.

Given equal social security it's no wonder some will prefer it to seeking employment.

[JadedWolf]

In other news, an ultra-orthodox Israeli newspaper edited out all female politicians including Merkel from the iconic photo of the Paris march. You can't make this stuff up.

 

https://twitter.com/uriahc/status/554657664316104705/photo/1

[BruceVC]

In other news, an ultra-orthodox Israeli newspaper edited out all female politicians including Merkel from the iconic photo of the Paris march. You can't make this stuff up.

 

https://twitter.com/uriahc/status/554657664316104705/photo/1

 

Hi Jaded  " waves "

 

Where have you been? I was worried you had joined the Ukrainian army and you were involved in the conflict in eastern Ukraine !!!

[JadedWolf]

 

In other news, an ultra-orthodox Israeli newspaper edited out all female politicians including Merkel from the iconic photo of the Paris march. You can't make this stuff up.

 

https://twitter.com/uriahc/status/554657664316104705/photo/1

 

Hi Jaded  " waves "

 

Where have you been? I was worried you had joined the Ukrainian army and you were involved in the conflict in eastern Ukraine !!!

 

 

Not much chance of that. I would make a terrible soldier. I'm a lover, not a fighter.

[Azdeus]

YAY FOR FREE SPEECH! EXCEPT WHEN I DON'T LIKE WHAT YOU SAY. WE NEED TO POLICE IT!

 

Well color me sceptical.

Shouldn't a man be allowed to hate too?

 

I'm not, this falls in line with all the touchy feely poo the corps wants. I do doubt that they'll get it passed though, it's far to invasive. But they'll try, a few years down the road the might actually succeed.

[Junai]

This isn't the first 'terrorist' event where the named official suspects reportedly came to be known to the authorities though a found ID under extremely unlikely circumstances. Very convenient for those authorities, and/or just super lucky. Twice now!

Passports these days. When concrete is pulverized, these papers come out unscathed. Amazing quality.

 

There's no blood or recoil when the police office is shot either;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P853PYcw90Q

 

I'm no forensics expert, but I'd like to believe there would be some blood when a man gets his head blown

off at point blank range. Anyway, I suppose we should stop asking questions. It's so passe.

 

..

Edited January 13, 2015 by Junai

[Malcador]

Wonder if they did ID them via some other means but the publicly given reason is just a thin cover. Seems simple enough.

 

Maybe his head din't blow up due to the ammunition ? My understanding was that grievous wounds on unarmoured people result from hollow points, fully jacketed rounds just punch through (proves a minor problem, thank you Black Hawk Down). Does strike the concrete.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Malcador

[Orogun01]

Wonder if they did ID them via some other means but the publicly given reason is just a thin cover. Seems simple enough.

 

Maybe his head din't blow up due to the ammunition ? My understanding was that grievous wounds on unarmoured people result from hollow points, fully jacketed rounds just punch through (proves a minor problem, thank you Black Hawk Down). Does strike the concrete.

Unless we get a ballistics expert we can't confirm, but I agree with you. At that range it wouldn't have enough kinetic force to create a massive cavity and it is likely to go through, but I don't see when it hits concrete. It might just be because of the low resolution of the video, but the conspiracy skeptics have given enough circumstantial evidence to create doubt.