Meshugger Posted January 7, 2015 Author Posted January 7, 2015 The only thing sadder than terrorists winning is the political opportunism this attack will spawn. Or has already spawned judging by this thread. Yep, http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/07/us-france-shooting-germany-islam-idUSKBN0KG1TO20150107 Oh yeah? Well i am gonna up the ante then: It was actually about ethics in game journalism! Topical: The police have allegedly identified the gun men and are in pursuit in the city of Reims. 1 "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Cultist Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) It's been years of shifting towards antimulticulturism and anti-immigration laws. Parties with such programs gradually gained more and more popularity across the Europe. Now it's a rare chance to seize an opportunity and use this attack as a pretext to putting multiculturism where it belongs - to the trash can. Cuttting non-native welfare programs, citizenship laws - all this could be realized in the coming years at last. Edited January 7, 2015 by Cultist 1
TheChris92 Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Killing and violence do not showcase the strength in your beliefs, it showcases how little faith you have in those beliefs. Tragic, so incredibly tragic. Edited January 7, 2015 by TheChris92 5
Woldan Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Attacks like this though ? Not really the same as a 7-11 being knocked over or some white kid shooting up a school. Like I said, a round does not know the difference between a white kid shooting up a school or highly trained terrorist, if you manage to stay calm and know what you are doing you have a very real chance. Also remember there are places on earth where people get attacked by 600kg heavy angry animals charging them with 60 km/h with teeth longer than your fingers at distances of under 20 meters, there is barely enough time to get off two aimed shots which have to count, and that happens more often than you'd think. So yes, if you are under attack and you are under enormous stress you still have a chance with a gun. More so if you have years of practice under your belt. But we should rather discuss the ways of preventing such disgusting attack. Edited January 7, 2015 by Woldan 1 I gazed at the dead, and for one dark moment I saw a banquet.
Malcador Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Oh yeah? Well i am gonna up the ante then: It was actually about ethics in game journalism! Topical: The police have allegedly identified the gun men and are in pursuit in the city of Reims. Hah. Ok, that was pretty good Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
HoonDing Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 There's always an option I'm sure the Mossad was behind it. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Orogun01 Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 There's always an option snip I'm sure the Mossad was behind it. Not sure if serious...But considering that in France since the Gaza news broke out, public opinion of Israel has dropped down. Still, I will ask you for what makes you say that, has there been some proposal or bill or the rise in Right Wing parties that did something recently related to Israel? I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you.
Valsuelm Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) But we should rather discuss the ways of preventing such disgusting attack. Without knowing who did it or why, there's really not much to discuss. It could be what the media is going to say it is: Muslim radicals pissed off about a cartoon on Jihad. It could be a false flag attempt of some sort. It could be a couple of evil MFers who just wanted to go kill some people and stir up trouble. It could be a hit on an individual(s) for something completely unrelated to cartoons depicting Muslims or whoever. It could be something else entirely. There's not too much to prevent these things in any of the cases I listed above (other than some strange scenario under 'something else entirely'). The best thing would be to make it so the payoff for the perpetrators is minimal or doesn't exist, and given the nature of western society right now, that unfortunately isn't a very realistic option in many places (such as Paris). Edited January 7, 2015 by Valsuelm 2
Valsuelm Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Eh, have to balance that against some dude having a bad day and deciding to start a gunfight in the office. The best thing for something like that is other armed people at the office. Really. There is no 'balance'. The proposition that we should make laws or rules that govern everyone to prevent a random lunatic from doing super unusual evil deed X is steeped in fear, ignorance, and is lunacy itself. Not only are things like you mention super rare (there's a handful a year throughout the entirety of western civilization that is made up of of over a billion people; oh, and almost all of them happen in places where guns are essentially banned), people who are inclined to pick up a weapon and start using it on people because they had a bad day don't follow laws or rules. It really truly astounds me how this simple fact escapes so many people. "I was going to go on a murderous spree but them pesky ban on weapons laws/rules stopped me' said or thought no one ever. Edited January 7, 2015 by Valsuelm
Gorgon Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Wow you really couldn't STFU long with your gun control debate. I understand that there were security personel and police first responders who were armed and who were killed ? 1 Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
Hurlshort Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 As you said, it is incredibly rare, so arming a larger percentage of the population with varying degrees of competence and training sounds like a terrible idea. I asked this in another thread, are the odds that you will need to carry a weapon to protect yourself from a violent attacker higher than the odds that you will be involved in an accident with the firearm? Unless they are, then the justification for arming a bunch of civilians is not reasonable. 2
Valsuelm Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Wow you really couldn't STFU long with your gun control debate. I understand that there were security personel and police first responders who were armed and who were killed ? And you're a moderator? Just ... 1
Valsuelm Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 As you said, it is incredibly rare, so arming a larger percentage of the population with varying degrees of competence and training sounds like a terrible idea. I asked this in another thread, are the odds that you will need to carry a weapon to protect yourself from a violent attacker higher than the odds that you will be involved in an accident with the firearm? Unless they are, then the justification for arming a bunch of civilians is not reasonable. I actually have a post half composed in that other thread to answer this, but the short of it is the answer is already half in that thread within the data linked therein coupled with data that's been linked many times in other threads regarding crime statistics, and the answer is you have a far far far better chance (more than a hundred times better) of finding yourself in an unfortunate situation where a weapon might save you or someone else vs finding yourself in an unfortunate accident with a weapon. I'll finish that post at some point in the coming days, but you can go find the data yourself amongst the CDC and FBI published statistics.
213374U Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Seems they've been captured. It just occurred to me that this kind of thing is simply the price we pay for free speech. It's not "valiant heroes" dying in some country that half the population can't find on a map, it's not cops hitting a "terror cell". It's just average joes that happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and they died because somebody didn't like something somebody else drew, said, or thought. No amount of laws or public or private force can completely prevent this. There were armed cops at the scene as the magazine had been attacked previously. They died like the others. Thinking that one could do better from the comfort of his computer chair strikes me as wishful thinking, at best. It's not guns or laws preventing society from crumbling down into a Mad Max-style dystopia. It's the simple fact that most people aren't psychopaths. It sucks when you run into someone that is, though. 8 - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast.
Malcador Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Well regardless of the person obeying laws, people always wistfully mention what armed people present could do. So carrying the idea forward to where significant numbers of people are armed in every day life is reasonable. Given that there is the practical worry of those firearms being used improperly resulting in deaths. Is a downside to the armed society, polite society idea. But ah well, expected. 1 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Gorgon Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Wow you really couldn't STFU long with your gun control debate. I understand that there were security personel and police first responders who were armed and who were killed ? And you're a moderator? Just ... What ? Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all.
Meshugger Posted January 7, 2015 Author Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Names of the of the ones arrested, if you believe the jungle-telegraph: Edited January 7, 2015 by Meshugger "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Woldan Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) I asked this in another thread, are the odds that you will need to carry a weapon to protect yourself from a violent attacker higher than the odds that you will be involved in an accident with the firearm? Unless they are, then the justification for arming a bunch of civilians is not reasonable.How many people get robbed and killed/seriously injured in the streets vs how many people accidentally shoot themselves/others? Well, you don't have to be a genius to know which of these two things happen more often. ''Bunch of civilians'' says it all, your distrust to the general ''populace'' is disturbing. The strange thing is, though, you trust them with dangerous things like cars. Edited January 7, 2015 by Woldan 1 I gazed at the dead, and for one dark moment I saw a banquet.
HoonDing Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Scum that went off to play in the Syrian sandbox should never be allowed to return. 4 The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Valsuelm Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I asked this in another thread, are the odds that you will need to carry a weapon to protect yourself from a violent attacker higher than the odds that you will be involved in an accident with the firearm? Unless they are, then the justification for arming a bunch of civilians is not reasonable.How many people get robbed and killed/seriously injured in the streets vs how many people accidentally shoot themselves/others? Well, you don't have to be a genius to know which of these two things happen more often. ''Bunch of civilians'' says it all, your distrust to the general ''populace'' is disturbing. The strange thing is, though, you trust them with dangerous things like cars. But he doesn't. He's all for self driving cars and thinks that they will prevent accidents and save lives.
Drowsy Emperor Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Names of the of the ones arrested, if you believe the jungle-telegraph: Born in Paris. When will Europeans learn? И погибе Српски кнез Лазаре,И његова сва изгибе војска, Седамдесет и седам иљада;Све је свето и честито билоИ миломе Богу приступачно.
Tale Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Terrible tragedy. I'd say I hope justice is swift and without mercy on those who perpetrated, but if I'm going to hope, it'll be for a time machine or that the whole thing is a joke. But I guess if I have to deal with reality, I'll stick with the original sentiment. My heart goes out to those the victims were forced to leave behind and the injured. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Tsuga C Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Come now Gfted1, this is no time to raise the ideological nonsense of the NRA ^ Thus spake, Sheeplethustra. http://cbrrescue.org/ Go afield with a good attitude, with respect for the wildlife you hunt and for the forests and fields in which you walk. Immerse yourself in the outdoors experience. It will cleanse your soul and make you a better person.----Fred Bear http://michigansaf.org/
Malcador Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 But he doesn't. He's all for self driving cars and thinks that they will prevent accidents and save lives. He might be right, seems every driver here is a self centered idiot. 1 Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
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