morhilane Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 A few more notes on the cipher. I tried another one, and the problem really is that some of the invocations don't appear to work. I ended up using the few that I knew did and were effective: the one that paralyzes one target and gets others Stuck, Treasonous Whispers, and Puppet Master. And I think Eyestrike once or twice just to try it. I.e. the invocations need balancing so that they're more or less equally attractive. There's nothing wrong with them in principle though. I think you mean powers and not invocations. I though you were talking about the Chanter at first. Another note on the barbarian. I tried to make an archetypical carnage barb and play him like the tooltips recommend: if there's a group, wade in and carnage away. Gave him Medreth's old greatsword since he didn't need it anymore. Uh, no. He got roflstomped both by beetles and, later, by spiders. If the intent is that you Wild Sprint into the middle of a group and Carnage away while Frenzying... well, that's not working right now. Not even with a relatively squishy swarm. Barbarian 5 deflection is killing them too fast. They get crit to death and no amount of health/endurance is going to save them, especially when one beetle crit can take half your endurance away... Azarhal, Chanter and Keeper of Truth of the Obsidian Order of Eternity.
PrimeJunta Posted January 2, 2015 Author Posted January 2, 2015 Yes, powers. I always get those two mixed up. Sorry. I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com
Sensuki Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Barbarians now have 25 Deflection or something, but that's still low compared to other classes, and they also can't tank so them getting hit at all is not great.
TrueMenace Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) Barbarians now have 25 Deflection or something, but that's still low compared to other classes, and they also can't tank so them getting hit at all is not great. I know you play Dota, so I'm going to reference Axe. Axe's first skill is a taunt that taunts enemies around him to attack him while gaining bonus armor for the duration. His ultimate is culling blade which outright kills the enemy if said enemy reaches a specific health threshold (example, 250 HP), and if Axe uses his ultimate, he instantly kills the enemy. The reason I reference Axe to Barbarians in PoE is because I feel like they should have similar playstyle. The ability to go berserk mode in short bursts is what appeals to me both Axe and the Barbarian. You're not outright tanky. You're only tanky when you taunt for the duration and killing enemy with culling blade resets the cooldown on the ultimate continuing the carnage. If they made the Barbarian kinda like Axe that would be good. Have an ability that gives him a crap ton of DT for a short amount of time that taunts the enemies around him, then another skill called for example, Execution, that outright kills the monster at a specific HP threshold, and if you do meet the HP threshold for the kill, you got another short burst of some positive buffs for himself and/or the team like maybe a movement speed or DT buff... How does that sound...to me, it sounds so friggen amazing.... Think about it, you have your Barb run into a group of nasty beetles, taunt them, gaining bonus DT for said duration, you spin around carnaging the crap around them with some passive that does damage whenever you get attacked, then when they get low, you execute them, gaining some buffs like movement speed, defense bonuses, etc. Rinse and repeat, running around like a barbarian going crazy, living life on the edge! The more I think about it, the more I ought to make a new thread about this, because this absolutley needs to happen...it wouuld make the Barb class so much fun. PoE devs should ought to look at the skills for the Dota 2 heroes, so much synergy and ideas to translate to PoE. What do you guys think? Btw, I'm a huge Dota 2 nerd, played the game since Dota 1. If I can only persuade the devs that they can really apply some cool stuff to the PoE classes from Dota. Edited January 3, 2015 by TrueMenace 1 Calibrating...
PrimeJunta Posted January 3, 2015 Author Posted January 3, 2015 It wouldn't be hard to fix. Just buff Frenzy and some of the other per-encounter abilities. Wouldn't require any drastic re-engineering. I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com
Sensuki Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Josh Sawyer doesn't play and probably hasn't played DotA 2, so I wouldn't expect anything remotely DotA-ish to show up in the game unfortunately. I agree that the way that Barbarians play doesn't necessarily co-incide with their paper design. I do recently recall saying that I think Barbarians aren't fantastic. Josh replied on Something Awful saying that QA and Bobby Null really like the Barbarian as is. 1
Azmodiuz Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Well there you go not much has changed unfortunately And yeah it's sad about the Ranger. Once again it ends up being a bad class after trying it, it became the decidely one class I will not play anymore. I hate the fact your forced to have an animal companion too. It should be a talent or something you can choose. The fact wizards suck compared to druids makes no sense to me. Not in this campaign setting. but hey, apparantly druids ARE the lords of magic and lore in this campaign, just no one new it all that well, even though they have no real large culture unlike mages who have entire country's that accept them socially and celebrate them much more... yet theres less diversity to them. Just BLAH.. its an attempt to make wizards less favorable, because people want to play mages. thats my opinion. Obsidian wrote: "those scummy backers, we're going to screw them over by giving them their game on the release date. That'll show those bastards!" Now we know what's going on...
TheisEjsing Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 If we could smack a radiance and a midas on our animal companions, we would be in business! 1
Sensuki Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) and an Orb of Venom and an Armlet of Mordiggan (or did they fix that exploit?) Edited January 3, 2015 by Sensuki
GordonHalfman Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Armlet bear was fixed like a year ago. But yeah there's a lot of cool stuff that could be taken from Dota for the Ranger especially, Shackleshot, Gust, Windrun, Entangling Claws, Thirst. I don't find Lone Druid that interesting a hero ability wise, but his itemization is quite cool. Obviously the animal companion can't have items but they could implement temporary buffs for it along the line of Mask of Madness or Blademail. Also they could use the backlash effect or whatever it's called instead of the shared health system, i.e make the Ranger take a bunch of damage when the pet dies and become weakened or prone. Make it so it can only be re-summoned once per day. Perhaps even make it so after being summoned it's combat bonuses are gone and are recovered slowly over several encounters. Although that could be a bit gimmicky and annoying. 1
Sensuki Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 It's the game mechanics that make Lone Druid interesting, not the abilities itself. You can use the Bear to block the pull camp, split push, scout, wittle the enemy down with radiance as they push and cheekily recall it etc etc
morhilane Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 Barbarians now have 25 Deflection or something, but that's still low compared to other classes, and they also can't tank so them getting hit at all is not great. You are right, they seem to have changed it this build. In fact, it seems to have changed for most classes... Azarhal, Chanter and Keeper of Truth of the Obsidian Order of Eternity.
Sensuki Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 (edited) It was changed in v364 Most classes have 35 or 25 now. Priests and Wizards have 15 ? Edited January 3, 2015 by Sensuki
morhilane Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 It was changed in v364 Most classes have 35 or 25 now. Priests and Wizards have 15 ? Guess I missed that. :/ Priest has 25 in the current build. I think the Wizard does too, but I didn't validate by making one. Azarhal, Chanter and Keeper of Truth of the Obsidian Order of Eternity.
Sensuki Posted January 3, 2015 Posted January 3, 2015 That's why there was a question mark, couldn't remember.
IndiraLightfoot Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 @IndiraLightfoot Don't knock it 'til you try it. The wizard isn't sucky as much as a bit of a one-trick pony. I blew through the BB pretty effectively with my little disabler-crowd-controller orlan wizard. I'm finding build diversity just fine on most classes too, and incidentally really starting to like the "no FF fringes" I originally objected to. Wizards and druids especially get a lot of benefit out of Int. But anyway, continuing: Barbarian - 1 Competent if a little unimaginative. Don't know if we actually need a barbarian on top of the fighter (defensive) and rogue (offensive). Carnage and Frenzy felt a little underwhelming, although that was perhaps due more to the lack of FX because by the numbers Dyrtipix output a lot of damage. The fighter's Knockdown and Defender felt more tactically useful than Wild Sprint or Frenzy. Brute Force made up nicely for the lack of weapon specialization and mastery. My least favorite melee class so far, but not actively problematic. Perhaps Carnage would've worked better had I pumped Int a bit; another problem is that in the current BB there's really only the spider fights where it can be effectively used, as wading into the beetles is suicidal because they hit really hard. I had only played the BB wizard before, and that mostly as a AoE pumping support companion, so yeah, you are right. Consequently, I went ahead and rolled a fire godlike wizard with two handed sword and heavy armour, and I also rolled an extra hireling Orlan wizard with an entirely different set of spells from BB wizard and my main muscle wizard (lots of might and (perception) accuracy, and some INT). And what do you know? Wizards are fun and varied, much better than I had expected. My hireling shot bows and dazed and confused everything, while me up on the frontline cast Slicken and various mirror images, while chopping everything, and at the same time, my BB threw in fireballs and chill fogs for good measure. I played it on hard, and I think those thre wizards could make it on their own. They have pretty much sailed through the beetles and the spiders, and the ogre was like stunlocked and soon dead. 3 *** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***
gnoemli Posted January 4, 2015 Posted January 4, 2015 sounds interesting, something i should try... but one question, how did you make your party, as i don't seem to be able to save/load my game after removing a bb partymebmer? (playing on OS X)
Ashen Rohk Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I've done a few videos on them, but for me you need the following classes: Druid (completely agree with Sensuki's remarks about them) Monk - Meat shield damage machine Chanter - I summoned a motherf*cking dragon last night. I am quite partial to the Priest's abilities, and having a Paladin on board does make everything bufftastic. To be fair to rangers, the takedown/return skill on the pet at higher levels is quite powerful, but I tried sword and boarding as discussed in the beta forums and it was a little bit pathetic. You read my post. You have been eaten by a grue.
Sensuki Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 Sword and board sucks. Dual wielding spears is the way to go.
Quantics Posted January 16, 2015 Posted January 16, 2015 I remember reading somewhere on these forums that JS is not a fan of swords in RPGs.
PrimeJunta Posted January 16, 2015 Author Posted January 16, 2015 Josh owns a mace though. I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com
wanderon Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 Josh owns a mace though. Doesn't everyone in CA carry mace? 2 Nomadic Wayfarer of the Obsidian Order Not all those that wander are lost...
prodigydancer Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 The design philosophy seems to be nerf the stuff people are using rather than bump the stuff they aren'tWhen they first announced "all builds are equal" as one of their design goals I feared it would be this way. What the team fails to understand is that nerfing good abilities doesn't make terrible ones relatively more appealing. It only makes good abilities relatively less useful. You can of course nerf everything to the ground which will only force people to use auto-attack most of the time. Then of course all classes and builds will be equal... as in "equally boring". 1
Luckmann Posted January 18, 2015 Posted January 18, 2015 The design philosophy seems to be nerf the stuff people are using rather than bump the stuff they aren'tWhen they first announced "all builds are equal" as one of their design goals I feared it would be this way. What the team fails to understand is that nerfing good abilities doesn't make terrible ones relatively more appealing. It only makes good abilities relatively less useful. You can of course nerf everything to the ground which will only force people to use auto-attack most of the time. Then of course all classes and builds will be equal... as in "equally boring". Whooo, go marxist philosophy.
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