Ukraine Discussion

[Azdeus]

http://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/de-ar-putins-soldater-pa-natet/

Google translated, and I did some fixes to it where I noticed real bad translations while skimming.

 

 

 

St. Petersburg. On the outskirts of St. Petersburg is located 250 contracted "net trolls" and produces fake blogs and comments around the clock. They are soldiers in a global information war, with the mission to pay homage to Putin, saw Obama and mock the President of Ukraine Porosjenko. DN've met two of the trolls.

It does not look like much, a gray four-storey building in concrete not far from the metro station Staraya Derevnja in the north of St. Petersburg. Yet this is a frontal section of the global information war going on against the background of the real war in Ukraine - a Nygammalt cold war between East and West.

I walk quickly past the snow-covered sidewalk opposite and take a few pictures. Journalists are not welcome here, and inside the foyer are plenty of guards.

Here, to Savusjkinstreet 55, came Darya one day nearly a year ago. She had received tips about a well-paid and comfortable jobs.

- I had heard from friends of friends, but I did not really know what it is about, she told DN.

I meet her and her boyfriend Mikhail in a one-room apartment that Darya rent in another suburb of St. Petersburg. Even Mikhail has worked in the troll factory, that was where the two became a couple. They are both 25 years old and is actually called something else.

- The deciding factor was the money. It serves around 40,000 rubles a month (just over 5,000 kronor at today's exchange rate) and it is far above the average wage here, says Darya.

What job went out, she soon realized: to spread propaganda on the Internet, via the comment box and faked accounts on the blog portals and social media.

- I was three bloggers, two of them were men and one was a housewife. We worked twelve hour shifts. At least ten blogs you have to perform, and so comments on others' blogs, says Darya.

- I was hired just to comment. One would have to at least 126 comments per session, such was the norm, says Mikhail.

The aim was basically political, and on several occasions came an "expert" and lectured for trolls. But it was not about some very sophisticated thought. Mikhail summarizes the basic concept that everyone had to stick to:

- Putin good, bad Obama, Porosjenko poor. What Putin had done or said did not matter, it was good simply.

Meanwhile, the Heads sure that everything would look natural, that no suspicions were aroused. According to Mikhail worked all through a proxy server, which meant that it looked as if the posts and blogs written in the provincial city of Ryazan, south of Moscow. Bloggers and commentators were invited in addition to initially did not write about politics but focus on establishing themselves in different networks. Only after a few weeks you could begin to address topics that Putin, Ukraine and the United States.

- One would constantly take things from real life, like to tell you that you had baked bread in the morning, says Darya.

- Then you could slip into politics. For many it became very artificial.

Darya and Mikhail estimates that 250 people worked in the house during the time last year when they were there. They say there were several different professions, including cartoonists and video operators. Based on salaries and other expenses, it is a multi-million business.

Who pays the trolls on Savusjkingatan? Darya and Mikhail says that they got their pay cash in hand every week. Their immediate superiors, known as team leaders, they knew only the first name, and senior managers was never seen.

Operations in St. Petersburg operated by a company called Internet issledovanija. The company has approximately 600 employees, dealing with "information technology, systems integration and Internet" and search open employees at different job sites. These include the 'content manager at day or night shift ", illustrators and copywriters.

DN has contacted three different managers within the company by telephone. One of them hangs up when I introduce myself as a Swedish journalist. Another - with a rather unusual name - confirms first that he works for Internet issledovanija, but when I ask a question about "trolls operations" changes his mind and says I probably looking for another person with the same name. A third refused to comment but are anxious to know how I got hold of her number.

Several Russian independent media have investigated the Internet issledovanija. The local business magazine Delovoj Peterburg has revealed that, apart magic factory also underlies a number of faked Ukrainian news sites that pumps out proryskt angled news without their own journalists on the ground in Ukraine.

And the opposition newspaper Novaya Gazeta had last year a couple of journalists apply for a job at the company, which had its premises in Olgino, another suburb of St. Petersburg. They could reveal bands between the business and the now-defunct patriotic movement Nashi, sometimes called "Putin Jugend".

Novaya Gazeta has also found links between Internet issledovanija and Concord, a group of companies owned by catering king Yevgeny Prigozjin.

He Prigozjins career is almost unbelievable, but not untypical of Putin's Russia. In his youth he was sentenced to prison for theft, but was then accompanied by his stepfather first to sell hot dogs in his hometown of Leningrad, now St. Petersburg. It was in the 80s.

Today owns the same man an empire of luxury restaurants in the Russian cities. He handles the food in both the White House, the Russian government building in Moscow, as the Duma, the lower house of parliament.

Not for nothing is called Prigozjin for "Putin's chef". He is reported to have close personal relationship with the president, although this has never been confirmed.

During his time in magic factory involved Darya and Mikhail exclusively with Russian-language sites and blogs. The idea was to influence public opinion in the country in the Kremlin-friendly direction. But the business is also directed to foreign countries.

- I know at least one woman who wrote in English. And one who wrote in Ukrainian, says Darya.

Last spring there appeared clear signs that the emphasis in the Internet offensive has moved abroad. In May, warned the British newspaper The Guardian readers for a "orchestrated pro-Kremlin Campaign" in the comment fields.

A few weeks later published the Russian hacker group known during kodnamndet Sjaltaj Boltaj extensive material that suggests the magnitude of the project. Hacker group has previously released a couple of Putin's speech before they have been held, and have never proved wrong other than in details.

The material on several thousand pages has since been removed from the network. On July 23 ended Sjaltaj Boltajs blog on the State Monitoring Board Rozkomnadzors blacklist. This followed a court decision in St. Petersburg, then a lawsuit filed by a certain Igor Osadtjij. He Osadtjij singled out as a leading figure in the Internet issledovanija, the company that operates the business of Savusjkingatan in St. Petersburg.

DN through other channels come across parts of the now-removed material. There is extensive email correspondence between different persons connected to the Internet issledovanija - including Igor Osadtjij.

It also submitted résumé, sometimes written in clumsy English, from people looking for jobs in magic factory, there are invoices from the purchase of furniture for cleaning services. And this is especially a great strategy for how business should be expanded at the global level, primarily Facebook, Twitter and comment fields in the American media.

In a sort of preliminary studies establishes how media sites like Huffington Post and Politico works, and the screenshots shows how a test-trolls under the name Katarina has fared in the comment field debate.

"Are you against Putin? You know what he has done for his country and his people? The fact is that Obama is losing his footing, "she writes, and immediately gets attacked by US commentators.

The report concludes that in several cases that the Russian goblin's comments on US sites in the future must become "more provocative, more negative."

In a detailed plan of action in social media suggested that each control will create ten Twitter accounts, one with "a soulless thing as a cat or flower" that avatar. Three of accounts should be "master account" other "supportive".

"For each account purchase up to 1,500 followers, such as social proof. This is an unavoidable technique when opening a new account, because people are reluctant to interact with accounts that have few followers, "the report says.

The journalist Ilya Klisjin is web manager of the independent television channel Dozhd in Moscow. He wrote in late May in the newspaper Vedomosti of the international offensive in social media:

"According to sources close to the presidential administration began the preparatory work in the fall of 2013. Those who runs the project are the same people who have managed the domestic market."

When I contact Klisjin he remains convinced that the project has been initiated from the center of power in the Kremlin.

- It is a deliberate attempt by the presidential administration's departure kingdom department to take control of social networks and manipulate public opinion, he says.

- The fact that these structures are, there is no doubt, and they have many subcontractors. They look as advertising agencies or similar, and there are those who themselves employ control, such as those you have interviewed. The work of foreign media goes to similarly says Klisjin.

A famous Russian netizen confirmed to DN that the presidential administration is behind the trolls factories in several parts of Russia. He also points out a person as supreme head of the business: Timur Prokopenko, a former activist of the youth movement Nashi who is now deputy head of the Kremlin's foreign policy department.

Pavel Tjikov, lawyer and founder of the human rights organization Agora, also believes that the trolls is a project initiated from the highest level and that the leaked documents from Sjaltaj Boltaj have high credibility.

- These are facts that have been known for some time, and as confirmed by the documents. It is also not the first leak we've seen this, says Tjikov.

He believes that business must be viewed in context. First hit power to the independent media, since the freedom of assembly. Finally moved the whole community discussion to the Internet.

- The Kremlin's control, financed from the state budget, is a way for the power to fight back against criticisms that spreads online. It's a side of propaganda, the other we see in the major TV channels.

Neither Darya and Mikhail'm particularly interested in politics. They are not Putin supporters, not opponents. But that no one cared about the Savusjkingatan.

- Our team leader was a girl around 20 worst kind of careerist. She could not do much about anything. But she was loyal to senior managers, says Darya.

- They did not care what you thought, just what you wrote was, according to the template, says Mikhail.

After a few months got tired of both the working climate. The pay was reduced without justification, breaks were withdrawn. They did not even have a water bottle standing on his table.

- We complained well too much and finally we got fired both, says Darya.

Now she muddles his way down the private lessons in the subject, she has been trained in. Mikhail has got a job at a factory. On the kitchen table is a computer, but it is seldom they log on to social media.

- No, I have had enough of it for a lifetime, says Mikhail.

 

 

 

 

[Zoraptor]

 US equivalent of 'troll army', Brits are going to have 2000 army personnel working on propaganda full time. And Israel at least has the same thing.

 

On a $ per haemorrhoid generated basis the Russian troll army is certainly most cost effective though.

[obyknven]

 

Polish people do want  be clowns also. Polish propaganda make me laugh, it's most stupid thing what i see in my entire life. Though this is yet another proof about Nazi-EU.

 

You sure this is propaganda? It looks accurate to me .....

 

 

Decent Russian citizen... embrace his Polish heritage daily.

 Yeah, so accurate...

[obyknven]

Ukraine sell Murican weapon to Assad in Syria. Lol, it's so easy to brainwash of naive Westlings, Russian invasion, help us blah-blah, good  old game in bad/good policemen. Yet another artifical war for profit. 

[Woldan]

Thats just a picture of a piece of paper, I can make a similar one thats saying that the Ukraine is selling nuclear bombs in under 15 minutes. 

[Malcador]

Well, believable that would happen, I am not sure Ukraine is immune to corruption especially when one has valuable weapons (ok, or just weapons..). Though I'd expect it to go to organized criminals rather than another country.

[Zoraptor]

Not very believable.

 

Can't see the Syrians wanting non WP/ soviet standards like 7.62 NATO or 338 rifles much for logistical and supply reasons, and Ukraine (or Russia/ Iran for that matter) should have plenty of alternatives to sell. Also written in english on official letter head and using inconsistent calibre notations? Yep, needs far more than just a random jpg for evidence.

[Fighter]

Seriously Ukraine... You are making it too easy for Russian TV. That is also just reckless and endangering real ambulances.

 

[Malcador]

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-leader-shows-off-captured-russian-military-ids-160048355.html

[obyknven]

http://news.yahoo.com/ukraine-leader-shows-off-captured-russian-military-ids-160048355.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Barothmuk]

 

Decent Russian citizen: White

Putlerist: Mongoloid inbred facial features, bad skin and hair

You sure this is propaganda? It looks accurate to me .....

 

Wow.

[Gorgon]

Yes, ha ha.

 

 

I'm pretty sure soldiers don't go to war with passports, that's what dogtags are for. There are loads of Russian weekend warriors though, amateurs who go there for the glory, that's were the passports are from, and considering the size of the rebel controlled areas it's entirely unlikely that they would have been able to keep up a steady supply of war material without Russian aid. 

[Zoraptor]

The claim was made that they are military passports rather than actual passports- though a cursory exam suggests only one of them actually is so with the rest being old/ new versions of the actual Russian passport. Presenting them is pure theatre and means nothing practical, the Ukrainians claim to have captured more FSB/ SVR agents (carrying their ID cards and passports, as all intelligence agents do...) than that.

 

Though since Russia has conscription it matters a lot less whether there are Russians there as volunteers/ mercenaries since they're all trained, that's why having regular forces on the ground would be largely unnecessary.

 

Giving the rebels ammo at least is a given though.

[obyknven]

Rebels continue offense against Ukrainian army.  

 

http://youtu.be/AHtbWXog-d4

[obyknven]

The claim was made that they are military passports rather than actual passports- though a cursory exam suggests only one of them actually is so with the rest being old/ new versions of the actual Russian passport. Presenting them is pure theatre and means nothing practical, the Ukrainians claim to have captured more FSB/ SVR agents (carrying their ID cards and passports, as all intelligence agents do...) than that.

 

Though since Russia has conscription it matters a lot less whether there are Russians there as volunteers/ mercenaries since they're all trained, that's why having regular forces on the ground would be largely unnecessary.

 

Giving the rebels ammo at least is a given though.

https://translate.google.ru/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Farmydocs.ru%2Fkak-kupit-voennyiy-bilet%2F&edit-text=

[JadedWolf]

Since this whole thread seems more and more a farce, I thought this would be appropriate.

 

[Woldan]

Rebels continue offense against Ukrainian army.  

 

http://youtu.be/AHtbWXog-d4

 

If I got one tiny cent for every unaimed bullet and RPG in this video I'd be a rich man with his own harem and private island.- 

[Malcador]

Nice flight time on those grenades too, was wondering where the reports were as they were covered by the next shot's sound. Looks like those guys are in need of an MG, too.

[Gorgon]

The pros probably wouldn't be uploading to youtube.

[Gorgon]

Reminds me a bit of newyear's. People smoking and joking around and then going off to shoot a bunch of ordinance they had brough along

[Woldan]

Looks like those guys are in need of an MG, too.

I'd have given them two dedicated marksmen with SVD's and two MG's. The MG's just harass the enemy and makes them stay put while drawing all the fire and attention. Meanwhile the marksmen flank the enemies positions undetected and find a good concealed position. Then they pick them out one by one while the MG fire masks their shots and presence. Make the marksmen change cover every few shots and the mg switch cover (alternating)every few bursts.

 

This sounds very armchair general but its actually a pretty simple tactic which found a lot of use in pretty much all major wars. It always proved very effective against massed infantry.

 

(Don't know about that particular situation though, I only saw destroyed backyards and bored soldiers popping a few every now and then without any kind of accuracy or determination.)

 

Reminds me a bit of newyear's. People smoking and joking around and then going off to shoot a bunch of ordinance they had brough along

Next time they should break out those 25 shot fireworks batterys instead, those are pretty and in their hands just as effective. Edited February 9, 2015 by Woldan

[Fighter]

The Ukrainian millitary are now "pro US troops".

 

[Cultist]

Cleansing in progress. Please wait.

[ShadySands]

The Ukrainian millitary are now "pro US troops".

 

 

The rebels should just start waving US flags

[Woldan]

Cleansing in progress. Please wait.

People bunching up in the freaking open with no cover at all, return fire in close groups standing without any kind of cover. Those ''soldiers'' only survived for so long because their enemies are just as completely untrained * inapt.  (* Even untrained persons have common sense)

 

Lovely.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Woldan