Casual Gamers Redux (No fighting please)

[Lord Wafflebum]

Disclaimer: This thread is more for casual gamers that prefer PoE on Easy or Normal. This thread will be a safe place for those of us that don't want to get mixed up in the hostility of other threads, and simply want to discuss our thoughts/opinions of the new build. This thread is especially directed to those of us that don't post on/avoid other threads.

 

 

So far I'm loving the new build. This is the first time I've been able to play through and consistently have fun. There are a few things that still aren't great, but based on this build I'm extremely optimistic I'm going to love the full release. This felt like playing Baldur's Gate, and that's why I backed this project in the first place. Looks like I'll be getting my money's worth!

 

Pros:

1) Paladins. This is my favorite class in most fantasy games. The fact that I can play semi-passively with it is perfect. In reality I could play completely passively with this class if I chose to, but I'm a sucker for "Lay on Hands."

 

2) Combat. Wow, so much better. I really enjoyed combat in this version. I can make sense of what's going on most of the time. I'll get into my remaining confusion in a bit. The pace is right, the damage amounts make sense, and I can follow what's happening and intervene with commands as necessary. I don't need to pause if I don't want to, but I've been enjoying doing so to make better use of party abilities. It's really looking good.

 

3) Classes. Now that combat is making more sense I've been playing with abilities and skills a bunch. I made a Chanter to join my crew right out of the gate and learning the cool things each class can do has been a hoot. I'm looking forward to playing with the other classes, too!

 

4) Aesthetics. I've been able to get a lot further into the beta since combat management is easier, and I've loved seeing all the environments. This game is gorgeous.

 

 

Cons:

1) Visibility. I am having a tough time seeing what's going on some of the time. I have a hard time seeing the beetles in the grass, and oh boy does it get crazy if anyone uses web. The circles around the characters help (reticles?), but mostly I rely on my party to auto-attack to victory if I can't really see what's going on. I'm not sure what the best way would be to address it other than web could use some transparency to it.

 

2) Forgetful Party. Normally I would consider this a quibble, but it happens during every encounter and becomes tedious. I don't know if it is an effect of the engagement system or what, but when I issue orders to my party during the beginning of combat they often forget what they're supposed to be doing like a second later. This may even be a bug, but I'm not sure. If it is an effect of engagement kicking in, it would be nice for manual direction to override auto-actions.

 

 

Quibbles:

1) Pathfinding?: I'm sure this is still a work in progress and still probably the best it has been thus far, but my PC is an idiot when it comes to navigating. It's only my PC tho. The rest of my party goes where I want them to in a logical and intended fashion. My PC for some reason gets really stupid when it comes to going places and goes off in a direction from everyone else. It's like he's saying "Hey, I know a shortcut!" and no one follows him because they know he has no idea what he's doing. It's a really minor thing, and is the cause for some unintentional entertainment.

 

2) Grimoires. What's the deal with grimoires? I picked one up, but it's just a different color than the one my wizard already had. Is it supposed to give me more spells? If so how do I get them, or do I already have them? I realize this is still the beta and there hasn't been a chance for tutorials, but I hope that sort of thing makes it into the tutorial stuff they make for early on.

 

3) Engagement. My issues here I think are more likely due to my not understanding the game too well yet. I was fighting the ogre and my Pally took quite a beating. I tried a tactical retreat, but the ogre was not having any of that nonsense. Despite the more prevalent threat of my fighter, he chased down my Pally and cleaned his clock before addressing the fighter and rogue at his heels. It gave me the opportunity to whittle his health down a bit extra, but there should be a way (or more obvious way) for the esteemed Lord Wafflebum to flee. It's not a huge deal, as my Paladin's low health was mostly due to gross mismanagement on my part, but I like to think of my Paladin as being allergic to unconsciousness.

 

 

Summary:

I'm loving the new build. I honestly could be happy playing the full release in the state the game is currently in. The fact they're still a few months out makes me think I'm going to love the full release. I realize many are still upset about certain aspects of the game (combat especially), but I personally am happy with where the game is/ where it's going (please don't hate me Sensuki!). This is especially true for Easy difficulty as I have not, and likely will not, play on Normal or above before the next build is released.

[lychee26]

Well, to answer your question about grimoires - I think the reason you can pick them up is so that you can equip a different set of spells for your wizard. So if your wizard has only equipped certain kinds of spells and you suddenly realize you need some other spells you can just switch to your other grimoire. In theory anyway. I think that's right? Someone can correct me if I'm wrong (I haven't really been keeping on top of things lately, 'cos yeah this forum went crazy at some point).

[Lord Wafflebum]

So you can only use a specific set of spells that are in a particular grimoire? You'd think there would be the ability to "copy" them over. That's what I do at work with my lab notebooks, and as a chemist I would be considered a wizard in olden times...

 

Also yes, the forums have been very hostile as of late. That's why I decided not to post on any other threads anymore.

[Lychnidos]

So you can only use a specific set of spells that are in a particular grimoire? You'd think there would be the ability to "copy" them over. That's what I do at work with my lab notebooks, and as a chemist I would be considered a wizard in olden times...

 

Also yes, the forums have been very hostile as of late. That's why I decided not to post on any other threads anymore.

 

I was under the impression that you write the spells in the grimoire, and a grimoire can hold a limited number of them.

 

Edit: Read this article.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Lychnidos

[Starwars]

If you find a Grimoire, I believe you can "learn" the spells you haven't learned (similar to writing down from a spell scroll you might find in Baldur's Gate) in that particular Grimoire (costs a small amount of money for some reason), and then copy it over to your original Grimoire (phew). 

I haven't tried it out extensively, but yeah, I believe you can have two Grimoires around with different spell sets in them, so you can switch them out depending on what you need.

 

So the Grimoire acts as the "spells currently memorized" kinda. So you can have two different sets of spells "memorized" if you have two Grimoires, though you have to equip the one you want of course.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Starwars

[Rumsteak]

I got killed on normal on Dyrford Crossing, on my way to the statue island. I thought I was gonna fight 3 beetles but in the end 8 or 9 (or more) of them came by surprise. Not sure that having so many of them in such a tiny location was normal. Maybe they were guarding the statue? *shrug*

 

Graphically-wise, textures feel too bright on the grass so it's hard to see everything that is going on in combat. I don't like the new enemy targeting graphic, I find it confusing with arrows everywhere. I preferred the targeting reticle from the previous patch.

 

So, overall I'm not impressed by this build. I'll wait for the next ones.

Edited November 30, 2014 by Rumsteak

[constantine]

I'm very satisfied with the game visuals, in fact I never believed they would look so refined !

 

However, as previously mentionted, there are some spell effects that really dominate the screen and make it really, really hard to make out what is going on. I currently find the Web Spell to be troublesome, as well as Fireball, b/c it takes a lot of time for the lightning it produces to cool down.

 

Also, I believe character models need to be more refined in contrast to the enviroment, especially in darker areas they look dull and almost devoint of colour.

 

As a final note, I would like to see some reworking on the demihuman races, Elves and Aumaua in particular. I very much like that Aumaua are supposed to be shark-people (Mr Sawyer's dream becoming reality, no more were-shark substitutes!) but I feel they fail to convey that and look like big, generic, blue people. It's a pity that one so inspired race be called blue-orcs..

 

As for the Elves, they are not as elf-like as we are accustomed to by elven gaming looks. Unfortunately they look more like Peter Jackson's 'The Lord of the Rings' Elves, which look essentially like normal people with pointed ears.

 

These are the things I'd like to point out concerning game visuals.

Edited November 30, 2014 by constantine

[Rumsteak]

Yeah, character contrast has been brought up several times in the past months but it does not hurt to remind the developers about it! I hope that something will be done in a future patch.

[Lord Wafflebum]

@Rumsteak

Have you tried playing on Easy? I read somewhere that the differences between difficulty levels are primarily how many enemies you'll face. The only time stats of enemies changes is for PotD. The number of enemies on Easy felt appropriate to me.

 

Yeah, the new reticles look a bit rough. I know they're experimenting with different styles, but I think I'll prefer something a bit more conservative. The only real advantage to the ones in this build is that they're large and flashy enough to help me find who I'm supposed to be fighting when my enemies are obscured by the environment and/or spell effects.

 

 

@constantine

Heh, I'm glad they added the white color for clothes, because all my folks are wearing either white or black so I can pick them out easily. I thought it was just my colorblindness making my crew blend in to everything. Glad to know it isn't just me!

 

Somehow I missed that Aumaua were supposed to be shark people. I kinda thought that they were going for an Avatar thing for them. It would be sweet if they had some sort of vestigial fin on top of their heads or their backs or something. Heads would probably be easier to do... I'd rather ignored their lore up to this point; I think I'll play through as one after I finish up with my Paladin playthrough.

 

Hmm, I thought the elves looked fine. Are they not a bit shorter and slender than the humans? I suspect they didn't want to go too crazy with the elves so they didn't look too much like the Orlans. What do you think would make them look more elvish?

[Doppelschwert]

If you find a Grimoire, I believe you can "learn" the spells you haven't learned (similar to writing down from a spell scroll you might find in Baldur's Gate) in that particular Grimoire (costs a small amount of money for some reason), and then copy it over to your original Grimoire (phew). 

I haven't tried it out extensively, but yeah, I believe you can have two Grimoires around with different spell sets in them, so you can switch them out depending on what you need.

 

So the Grimoire acts as the "spells currently memorized" kinda. So you can have two different sets of spells "memorized" if you have two Grimoires, though you have to equip the one you want of course.

 

Yeah, that's how it is supposed to work. Note however that the number of spells you can cast per day is independent from grimoires, that is, only spell selection is tied to grimoures, in case that's not clear. If you gather enough grimoires, you could basically write down every spell in the game into them where the only thing preventing you from accessing spells is the time spent switching to the grimoire that actually has them. So in short:

 

- The wizard knows a selection of spells which can be expanded by finding grimoires with unknown spells or leveling up.

- Grimoires have limited space and can hold a selection of the spells the wizard knows.

- You can have multiple grimoires but only one equipped. You can customize your grimoire by writing down spells you know.

- Wizards cast a spell by selecting a spell from the currently equipped grimoire and using one of their appropiate spell slots.

 

Basically, the wizard combines the spell availability of the DnD wizard with the spontaneous casting of the sorcerer with an opportunity cost (the time it takes to switch grimoires). Theoretically, you can prepare grimoires for different jobs and then switch them at the beginning of a fight according to the situation (one for elemental damage, one for gishing, one for crowd control or any combination).

[Lord Wafflebum]

 

If you find a Grimoire, I believe you can "learn" the spells you haven't learned (similar to writing down from a spell scroll you might find in Baldur's Gate) in that particular Grimoire (costs a small amount of money for some reason), and then copy it over to your original Grimoire (phew). 

I haven't tried it out extensively, but yeah, I believe you can have two Grimoires around with different spell sets in them, so you can switch them out depending on what you need.

 

So the Grimoire acts as the "spells currently memorized" kinda. So you can have two different sets of spells "memorized" if you have two Grimoires, though you have to equip the one you want of course.

 

Yeah, that's how it is supposed to work. Note however that the number of spells you can cast per day is independent from grimoires, that is, only spell selection is tied to grimoures, in case that's not clear. If you gather enough grimoires, you could basically write down every spell in the game into them where the only thing preventing you from accessing spells is the time spent switching to the grimoire that actually has them. So in short:

 

- The wizard knows a selection of spells which can be expanded by finding grimoires with unknown spells or leveling up.

- Grimoires have limited space and can hold a selection of the spells the wizard knows.

- You can have multiple grimoires but only one equipped. You can customize your grimoire by writing down spells you know.

- Wizards cast a spell by selecting a spell from the currently equipped grimoire and using one of their appropiate spell slots.

 

Basically, the wizard combines the spell availability of the DnD wizard with the spontaneous casting of the sorcerer with an opportunity cost (the time it takes to switch grimoires). Theoretically, you can prepare grimoires for different jobs and then switch them at the beginning of a fight according to the situation (one for elemental damage, one for gishing, one for crowd control or any combination).

 

Thanks guys, this helps a lot!

[Rumsteak]

@Rumsteak

Have you tried playing on Easy? I read somewhere that the differences between difficulty levels are primarily how many enemies you'll face.

 

As much as it hurts my self-esteem, I think you're right, I'm gonna try on Easy.

[constantine]

 

Hmm, I thought the elves looked fine. Are they not a bit shorter and slender than the humans? I suspect they didn't want to go too crazy with the elves so they didn't look too much like the Orlans. What do you think would make them look more elvish?

 

 

I would prefer demihuman faces to look quite different from human ones.

 

 

Yeah, character contrast has been brought up several times in the past months but it does not hurt to remind the developers about it! I hope that something will be done in a future patch.

Most of what I posted have been discussed in-depth in other threads, but often such discussions succumb to ugly arguments among users and get off-topic. I hope this 'argument-free' thread to voice our suggestions more clearly.

Edited November 30, 2014 by constantine

[Lord Wafflebum]

@constantine

That's fair. I kind of like how Dragon Age does it where the elves have exaggerated long and pointed features, typically with large eyes. I suppose Skyrim elves kinda had the same long and pointy features, too.

 

Hopefully if they don't have the time and/or money to make the races more distinctive from one another in vanilla PoE, the expansion has the potential to address that. I'm a bit concerned the character model design is essentially locked in at this point, but that's just conjecture.

[Starwars]

The design may be locked overall but they are still improving upon the models. I haven't checked if the changes made it into the backer beta but for the stream they were playing a while back, the male Amaua heads had been improved quite a lot at least. They just looked a lot better.

Though yeah, that is polishing the heads (he..he...) and not re-designing so...

[archangel979]

Now that you mention models the god races also like humans with a special hat. I understand it was easier to do it that way but that is what goes through my mind each time I look at them, especially that Death one. At least in D&D, Thieflings usually had a tail or such.

Edited December 1, 2014 by archangel979

[Nakia]

The godlike race disturbs me a bit.  The bodies just don't fit the head in my opinion. I also think the elves could be more distinct.

 

My gameplay style is slow paced.  I like to explore, talk to people and poke around seeing what I can find.  I do not like hand holding though and eventually want to play on expert.  I am enjoying the beta and trying out different ways to do things.

[Hormalakh]

I believe you can memorize spells from one grimoire that you pick up (which costs coins). The UI isn't very good nor intuitive at the moment.

[Gfted1]

I play on Easy to ensure I get the maximum number of Camping Supplies.

[constantine]

I'm certain that anyone who plays the game avoiding exploits, cheesy tactics and acknowledging engagement for what it is (stationary melee; unless you have an ability 'escape button') will enjoy combat at any difficulty setting. Don't forget there is still a ton of polish, responsiveness and bug fixing to come.

 

Many people (including myself) had different expectations, but in the end all that matters is what I said on upper paragraph

Edited December 2, 2014 by constantine

[curryinahurry]

 

@Rumsteak

Have you tried playing on Easy? I read somewhere that the differences between difficulty levels are primarily how many enemies you'll face.

 

As much as it hurts my self-esteem, I think you're right, I'm gonna try on Easy.

 

 

I just did the beetle fight at the shrine...and it was easily the toughest fight I've had on Normal in the various versions of the Beta thus far;  I really enjoyed it, except my rogue decided to stroll into the middle of the beetle horde...I'm assuming that is a pathfinding issue.  I think if you are having problems with that fight, you might cross the stream more to the west where the wolves are hanging out...that should be a pretty easy fight.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Lovely thread!

 

I just thought I'd drop this link here:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/69582-razs-perspective-a-dissertation-on-engagement-mechanics/

 

It's a link to Razsius' great thread on how Disengagement works and not works at the moment in the PoE BB. For any casual players, his OP is a great read, because you'll get one or two Eureka-moments from reading it, I promise you.

[Lord Wafflebum]

I finally got around to reading through Raz's post. He brings up a lot of good points that support that engagement may not need to be scrapped, but like many on this forum I'm waiting for Sensuki's rebuttal versus engagement. 

 

If nothing else, I'm really enjoying as I read through the threads that the devs are here reading them, too. So even if they don't implement some of the better stuff that has been suggested here I feel confident they at least took it into consideration. I realize there are time/monetary considerations we are not privy to and some of this stuff simply may not fit into their vision, but it's still nice to be heard.

 

Part of me wonders if the devs are also kinda waiting for Sensuki's engagement thesis before they work on the AI more?

[archangel979]

Raz brings points about changes needed so engagement is not scrapped. In its current state, engagement is bad (and you will also soon see what kind of exploits it currently allows when Sensuki posts his topic; he gave rpgcodex a preview of his videos).

[Rumsteak]

Just finished the engagement thread too. I think everyone agrees that engagement needs to be greatly improved or scrapped.

I didn't even notice that the beta had engagement (and did not know what it was) until I read about it on the forums a couple months ago. It should come as something obvious when playing, we should not need to look at the logs for that.

 

Easier said than done though, so I'm curious about what will happen in the next patches.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Rumsteak