Interesting Companions

[archangel979]

I just been playing BG1EE from the start and took some companions that I usually don't take (like Xzar, Edwin or Xan) and it made me figure out how many of the companions are really interesting and fun.

The combat and command bark are often so funny, the voice actors also did a good job.

 

When I add to them others like Khalid or Minsc or Jan (or that crazy cleric of Bane/Cyric) the game was full of interesting companions (even without being able to do their quests and stuff).

 

Will PoE companions be as interesting?

I don't feel it is enough to let players have lengthy conversations with them like in Kotor 2 or MotB, I want them to have cool command voice overs during combat and when moving. Their personality should be already noticed that way.

 

If possible give them voice overs in different situation where they would comment some event without starting a 1on1 dialogue with the player (similar to how Jaheira screams when Khalid dies).

 

In the last stream Jesse found a first companion and I didn't find him instantly interesting. In Bg1 you get Imoen, and she is instantly noticeable with her personality, so are Xzar and Montaron.

Edited November 22, 2014 by archangel979

[Quetzalcoatl]

That's because Baldur's Gate had a lot of one-dimensional companions. They needed those voice bites to be catchy and funny (in a very over the top way), because there wasn't much under the surface. 

 

I don't feel it is enough to let players have lengthy conversations with them like in Kotor 2 or MotB, I want them to have cool command voice overs during combat and when moving. Their personality should be already noticed that way.

I'm not sure what games you played, but Kotor 2 and MotB had precisely what you talked about. And did it much better than the BG games, if you ask me.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Quetzalcoatl

[Shevek]

I think you can use the companions in FO:NV, KoTOR2 and MotB as a barometer of how OE does companions. Those were certainly interesting to me (more real and multifaceted) but also a tad bit more muted than Bioware's BG2 companions. In general, BG2 companions can at times feel more like caricatures than characters. Basically, Bio wrote BG2 characters as one dimensional archetypes (the evil wizard, the blood thirsty beserker, the simple yet brave warrior, etc) and leaves it at that (with the occaisonal quirk, like Korgan putting the moves on Mazzy). The most complex character in BG2 was Jaheira and Bio seemed to struggle with her. I have a gut feeling the OE characters will be grittier and more real than BG2 characters. I also think that some folks will miss the standard high fantasy feel of BG2 with its more standard fantasy character writing. Still, everyones opinions differ and we wont know until release.

 

As to VO,the game will have very limited VO. I am thinking like PST or BG1 amount of VO from what has been stated by devs. Moreover, since characters will be a bit more muted personality wise, I am not sure if there will all kinds of quirky VO. So, if you are looking at VO to add personality to characters, all signs point to no on that one. Still, we wont know until we play.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Shevek

[Rumsteak]

In the last stream Jesse found a first companion and I didn't find him instantly interesting. In Bg1 you get Imoen, and she is instantly noticeable with her personality, so are Xzar and Montaron.

 

I assume that you are talking about the mage companion Jesse finds at the end of the stream. Jesse skimmed a good part of the dialogues for this encounter. This lack of context may result in a false feeling of emptiness or superficiality, but I think it will be better when taking your time.

 

Like, this mage made a lewd remark to some dude about his sister and you can discuss this with him. Personality-wise, he is fine by my standards! I mean, he is as good as you can get for a random guy that you meet in a fight outside the inn. It is a bit unfair to compare him with Imoen, who's been a friend of the main character since childhood. Give him a chance.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Rumsteak

[archangel979]

I think you can use the companions in FO:NV, KoTOR2 and MotB as a barometer of how OE does companions. Those were certainly interesting to me (more real and multifaceted) but also a tad bit more muted than Bioware's BG2 companions. In general, BG2 companions can at times feel more like caricatures than characters. Basically, Bio wrote BG2 characters as one dimensional archetypes (the evil wizard, the blood thirsty beserker, the simple yet brave warrior, etc) and leaves it at that (with the occaisonal quirk, like Korgan putting the moves on Mazzy). The most complex character in BG2 was Jaheira and Bio seemed to struggle with her. I have a gut feeling the OE characters will be grittier and more real than BG2 characters. I also think that some folks will miss the standard high fantasy feel of BG2 with its more standard fantasy character writing. Still, everyones opinions differ and we wont know until release.

 

As to VO,the game will have very limited VO. I am thinking like PST or BG1 amount of VO from what has been stated by devs. Moreover, since characters will be a bit more muted personality wise, I am not sure if there will all kinds of quirky VO. So, if you are looking at VO to add personality to characters, all signs point to no on that one. Still, we wont know until we play.

Well this is what I am talking about. OE NPCs are not noticeable but once you talk to them they are more complex. I don't mind more complex but I want them interesting even outside 1on1 talks.

Most of them game you don't talk to them but keep giving them orders and what they say then should be interesting.

 

There is no rule that says they cannot have interesting combat barks and more complex personality.

Edited November 22, 2014 by archangel979

[Mlatimudan]

As long as they are as good as FO:NV( or the old fallouts for that matter) I think we are safe, and as for the combat barks I think that as far as most games go

  :sneaking:"ssh, we're hunting ****heads" is pretty hard to beat. Of course I doubt Minsc will ever be topped but that doesn't mean companions can't be fun as hell.

[redneckdevil]

Yeah companions is one thing i am not worried about at all from obsidian tbh. I think they have a healthy track record as far as companions goes.

[Nonek]

Personally i've mostly preferred Obsidian's characters, with the exception of Veronica from New Vegas and a few of the cast of NWN2. Bioware's caricatures have almost always set my teeth on edge, with their squeeing humour, desperate, repeated calls for attention and almost universal lack of agency, intellect and bottom. I've sometimes even been forced to solo a Bioware game because of the idiotic ensemble following you around, continually interrupting ones protagonist with cutesy "witticisms" that would make Mr Wilde despair for the English language.

 

Breathe, breathe.....ah that's better, vent over. Many apologies.

[Flayeriv]

Will the NPCs interract with each other independent of the main character? That's what I want to know.

[Leferd]

http://forums.obsidian.net/blog/1/entry-168-project-eternity-and-characterization/

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64172-update-60-camaraderie/

 

^ Avellone discusses companion design.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Leferd

[archangel979]

http://forums.obsidian.net/blog/1/entry-168-project-eternity-and-characterization/

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/64172-update-60-camaraderie/

 

^ Avellone discusses companion design.

Those are interesting links but they don't really answer my questions.

[Barleypaper]

I don't think people should be too quick to throw away the 'entertaining one dimension buffoon' in favour of the 'deep, nuanced, "well written" character'. Some people might want to storm accross the wilderness with a party of stereotypes. Does every aspect of a well crafted RPG need to be as gritty and multi-faceted as possible? I don't think so.

 

In fact, I'm ashamed to say, I can get a bit bored with my characters if all they do is engage long, meaningful discussions. I mean, there's 5 of them; I only have so much time and so many ****s to give. I'm not their councilor, I hired them to kick ass.

[Sheikh]

What is the point of companions? Ive never played a RPG with good companion character like EVER. Baldurs gate was mainly complete garbage in this regard.

[Sheikh]

I don't think people should be too quick to throw away the 'entertaining one dimension buffoon' in favour of the 'deep, nuanced, "well written" character'. Some people might want to storm accross the wilderness with a party of stereotypes. Does every aspect of a well crafted RPG need to be as gritty and multi-faceted as possible? I don't think so.

 

In fact, I'm ashamed to say, I can get a bit bored with my characters if all they do is engage long, meaningful discussions. I mean, there's 5 of them; I only have so much time and so many ****s to give. I'm not their councilor, I hired them to kick ass.

 

Yeah and not giving long meaningful discussions or other poetry doesnt mean they arent deep and interesting and special characters. Its just that deep maningful long conversations do not fit into the adventuring theme at all. I love such conversations in real life and I would never have them if I was to go out advnturing into danger, EVER. Period. That kind of philosophy will make your mind drift away to fundamentally solving deep seated problems in the whole universe. On the other hand if you are advnturing your every day job is to deal with danger which is menial work. You cant afford to philosophize.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Sheikh

[constantine]

You can take for granted that Pillars will have an interesting cast of companions, as well as an engaging, interactive story. This is what Obsidian does best.

[hollowcrown]

What is the point of companions? Ive never played a RPG with good companion character like EVER. Baldurs gate was mainly complete garbage in this regard.

 

They make things interesting. Instead of playing with a bunch of static, stoic adventurers, having a party of companions with their own hopes, dreams and fears is far more interesting, Party building in BG is a game in itself. Modern Bioware, as much as they have fallen, still have the funniest and best written companions in a game so far. It adds an extra layer of intrigue and interaction to the game and is generally a great thing. It's why I prefer BG over IWD. 

 

BG was "garbage" in this regard because it was an old game and one of the first ever to even attempt it.

[redneckdevil]

I dunno but i think obsidian basically shined and imho had their best work of companions in fonv. Granted i will admit not everyone was fantastic, but a very good bit of them were very well done.

 

Raul will forever be my favorite companion of all time lol. Dry witted sarcastic humor....never change Raul, never change.

Edited November 24, 2014 by redneckdevil

[Sheikh]

They make things interesting. Instead of playing with a bunch of static, stoic adventurers, having a party of companions with their own hopes, dreams and fears is far more interesting, Party building in BG is a game in itself. Modern Bioware, as much as they have fallen, still have the funniest and best written companions in a game so far. It adds an extra layer of intrigue and interaction to the game and is generally a great thing. It's why I prefer BG over IWD. 

 

BG was "garbage" in this regard because it was an old game and one of the first ever to even attempt it.

 

 

That answer is extremely general and doesnt actually answer my question at all. In IWD, you can imagine whom your comapnions are. If you are out adventuring in danger, I dont much care for the character of my companions as long as we get along and they have talents that I can use.

 

If ETERNITY is going to have good companions I would really like to see it because I cant imagine this companion thing looking like anything but an embarrassing joke.

Edited November 25, 2014 by Sheikh

[archangel979]

BTW, Minsc has become a canon D&D character and now he is even in a comic book. I don't see NWN2 OE characters getting same treatment.

So, let get back to the start. Will PoE have awesome and memorable companions with memorable and fun voice sets?

Will those character be able to present their personality in a fun way even without the need to go into serious conversations with them (Kotor 2 style)?

Edited November 25, 2014 by archangel979

[Nakia]

The characters in BG 2 were one of the things I loved about the game.  The banter was wonderful.  You could have such a fun mix of companions.  I installed a user made mod that made it possible to have a public reputation and a private one for your characters so you could mix your "good" companions with your "bad"ones.  Nothing since has come close to equaling the fun for me.       

[Starwars]

I don't think I could take a 'Minsc character' today. I found him fun when I first played BG, but now? Urgh... It's really not the type of character I want to see in PoE.

 

Personally (and this is just a feeling I have, not based on much), I think the characters in PoE will be a bit more subdued. Some still eccentric, sure, but not quite so "in-your-face".

 

Time will tell. 

[hollowcrown]

 

They make things interesting. Instead of playing with a bunch of static, stoic adventurers, having a party of companions with their own hopes, dreams and fears is far more interesting, Party building in BG is a game in itself. Modern Bioware, as much as they have fallen, still have the funniest and best written companions in a game so far. It adds an extra layer of intrigue and interaction to the game and is generally a great thing. It's why I prefer BG over IWD. 

 

BG was "garbage" in this regard because it was an old game and one of the first ever to even attempt it.

 

 

That answer is extremely general and doesnt actually answer my question at all. In IWD, you can imagine whom your comapnions are. If you are out adventuring in danger, I dont much care for the character of my companions as long as we get along and they have talents that I can use.

 

If ETERNITY is going to have good companions I would really like to see it because I cant imagine this companion thing looking like anything but an embarrassing joke.

 

 

Well it's clearly something you just don't care about that other people do. I mean...you can imagine an entire storyline, TV show, book or game, but it's not the same as playing something unpredictable with twists and turns.

[Failion]

After playing wasteland 2 I realized one of the biggest strengths in these kind of games it to have interesting characters you care about. In wasteland 2 there was no interesting npc besides rose. Can't force myself to finish wasteland 2 because of this. Your game turns into a isometric dungeon crawl like path of xulima and wasteland 2 when there is dull character writing, story, etc, 

[Ozida]

Well, interesting characters (not only party members) is a cornerstone of any story, IMHO.  After all, why bother saving a village if you don’t even care about people living there? Why going into deep woods to find a little boy when his mother doesn’t have a heart-breaking monologue about her lost son?.. Otherwise it’s just another MMO: go there, kill 5 wolves, and bring 5 claws back. Don’t care why; don’t care how, just finish the damn quest.

 

My favourite NPCs were ones from NWN. I remember one guy telling a story about his sick wife who he had to kill out of mercy. The voiceover was done remarkably with a feeling of tears in man’s voice. The whole thing had nothing to do with any quests, by the way; just a stranger on a street. But it got me into the plague and the despair it caused way more realistically than a narrative repeating "how bad" it was.

[lolaldanee]

After playing wasteland 2 I realized one of the biggest strengths in these kind of games it to have interesting characters you care about. In wasteland 2 there was no interesting npc besides rose. Can't force myself to finish wasteland 2 because of this. Your game turns into a isometric dungeon crawl like path of xulima and wasteland 2 when there is dull character writing, story, etc, 

QFT

 

and: obsidian writes the best characters of them all, the only company that does this even better is bioware

i'm sure the characters in this game are going to be fantastic, or at the very least very good, there can be no doubt about this after alpha protocol and MotB